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Is Gandalf a conjurer of cheap tricks?

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His power lies in suggestion and encouragement. He simply gives the right people "a little nudge out of the door".

He's also probably a BAMF in power level but that never really matters.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Power in Arda tends to be of the soft sort, usually the ability to compel, influence or control the wills and attitudes of others, rather than flinging fireballs and whatnot. Raw elemental power, of the kind associated with D&D and its lineage, is reserved for the Valar, basically the higher level angels of Tolkienverse. Gandalf belong to the Maiar, the servitors of the Valar or basically lesser angels like cupids. As a wizard in Middle Earth he's probably less powerful than, say, Moses. However as a pure Maia he'd likely be greater or on par with Moses in his ability to manipulate the world.

That said the defining attribute of Tolkienverse is that it's not very rigorous; though I argue for Gandalf's true strength it's more of an estimation than a recounting of feats attributed to the Maiar (of which there are few). Tolkien envisioned Silmarillion as a Bible of sorts for Middle Earth and in that folkloric context Gandalf is on the level of miracle workers, powerful djinni, nature spirits and so forth.
 

III-V

Member
Power in Arda tends to be of the soft sort, usually the ability to compel, influence or control the wills and attitudes of others, rather than flinging fireballs and whatnot. Raw elemental power, of the kind associated with D&D and its lineage, is reserved for the Valar, basically the higher level angels of Tolkienverse. Gandalf belong to the Maiar, the servitors of the Valar or basically lesser angels like cupids. As a wizard in Middle Earth he's probably less powerful than, say, Moses. However as a pure Maia he'd likely be greater or on par with Moses in his ability to manipulate the world.

That said the defining attribute of Tolkienverse is that it's not very rigorous; though I argue for Gandalf's true strength it's more of an estimation than a recounting of feats attributed to the Maiar (of which there are few). Tolkien envisioned Silmarillion as a Bible of sorts for Middle Earth and in that folkloric context Gandalf is on the level of miracle workers, powerful djinni, nature spirits and so forth.

Interesting to consider Gandalf against Moses. He somewhat does fit in the role, although I never thought of Moses having powers. I think Moses powers were not his own, biblically, where as Gandalf does have agency over his powers.

Also, Gandalf preaches to stay the hand, etc even against his foes. Gandalf is certainly more powerful than he chose to show, imo.
 

drspeedy

Member
He's no Tom Bombadil.


Still never fully for my head around Tommy B... He's the guy in LOTR that could likely slap down any being, at least if he wanted to, seemingly.

Seinfeldwhatsthedeal.gif


On the other hand, Gandalf was just playing it low. Like that friend who quietly is ranked top 10 in competitive Smash Bros and doesn't brag, but yet let's you win from time to time.

Also: let's see him play one of these. Then I'll agree to the cheap trick bit

iu
 

The Mule

Member
He's as strong as Sauron.

People keeping saying this because they're both Maiar, but even within the ranks of Maiar there are vast differences in powers. By your rationale Radagast is as powerful as Sauron, or a Balrog is as powerful as Sauron, which I think we can agree simply isn't true.

The best measure of Gandalf the Grey's power is that his battle with the balrog ended in a draw. He was brought back to life as Gandalf the White with more power, but I doubt it put him anywhere near the level of Sauron.
 

zeemumu

Member
What would Gandalf be in DBZ power levels?

I assumed Power Levels in DBZ are determined by Ki levels and your Ki seems to be tied to your physical power. So if that's the case then not very high but he'd probably be the strongest magic-user. Who's gonna stop him? Babidi?
 

Piggus

Member
When's the remake of lord of the rings coming anyway.

Should be soonish. What's the earliest in terms of time frame Hollywood has taken and remade a movie?

That seems pretty unlikely to happen anytime soon considering how high of a bar the trilogy set. Nothing will come close to it.
 

drspeedy

Member
I wish, they'd rock Sauron way harder than those filthy hobbitses.

ayRVHSo.png


Careful, now. They just want you to want them... Otherwise they're gonna raise hell. You'll be forced to surrender or let the dream police put that chip in your head.


This writes itself, folks.
 

Loxley

Member
When's the remake of lord of the rings coming anyway.

Should be soonish. What's the earliest in terms of time frame Hollywood has taken and remade a movie?

WB will likely make spin-off Middle-earth films before they ever consider remaking The Lord of the Rings.

I dunno. I loved the LOTR trilogy movies when they came out but now I've swung around to Christopher Tolkein's view: Jackson turned the stories into cheap action movies.

There are many words I would use to describe Jackson's LOTR trilogy, but "cheap" ain't one of'em.
 
I initially though Gandalf was pretty bad ass. But the scene in The Hobbit where

he's trying to get away up in the trees and throwing lit pine cones at the dog/wolf creatures
really makes him look like a conjurer of cheap treaks.
 

Gorger

Member
But could he beat Sargeras? Could Sauron beat Sargeras? Could Sauron beat Lich King Arthas?

Sargeras is a living world and could cleave a planet in half during his peak. No way Gandalf could take him. Arthas wouldn't stand a chance against Gandalf.
 

Mifec

Member
Sargeras is a living world and could cleave a planet in half during his peak. No way Gandalf could take him. Arthas wouldn't stand a chance against Gandalf.

Unnerfed Gandlaf is Planet level so yeah Sargeras has enough power to kill him.
 
What is Tom Bombadil anyway? Like seriously, what is he?

He and a couple of other beings defy easy classicfication. My personal theory is that he's the earth personified. He's pretty much got to be some sort of primordial being, since according to him he was on the earth before the Ainur and Morgoth arrived. Very few things could have been around at that point.

Imagining that beings like that can exist solves a couple of issues, like Ungoliant and mountain giants, who aren't children of Eru Iluvatar.

The real answer is that Tolkien wasn't super interested in explaining everything, and he purposefully left some things mysterious because he felt there was value in fantastical stories that didn't give out every explanation.
 

.JayZii

Banned
He's basically an angel that uses his powers to encourage the forces of good in the world without directly intervening as much as possible.

That all might be a bit of an excuse because he just likes to smoke weed all the time, though.
 

Eusis

Member
A bit under Nappa and Vegeta in Saiyan arc if we're including his true unnerfed power.

So yes he is incredibly powerful.
I was going to guess King Kai, partially because of his role in most events... but I search and his power level actually IS in that range.
 

danm999

Member
He's an angel that's been around since time began, but he was lesser in power than many of his cohorts, but very wise.

This is one of the reasons he was chosen in fact, his humility and wisdom meant he wasn't likely to lose perspective and go renegade and make things worse on Arda like Saruman did.
 

Kieli

Member
There was an elective class on solely Tolkien literature back in my college. They were going to go over his major works and discuss the background of where he got his inspiration as well as delve deep into the myths and culture of his world.

Alas I didn't take it. One of my great regrets :(

I'm sure there's a YouTube masterclass type series though if I looked hard enough

I would have loved to take a course like that to satisfy my lit reqs. Alas.
 

MattKeil

BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
I dunno. I loved the LOTR trilogy movies when they came out but now I've swung around to Christopher Tolkein's view: Jackson turned the stories into cheap action movies.

The Hobbit movies, sure. LotR is a masterpiece, and a better-told story than the books.
 
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