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Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.
- Thread starter ArchedThunder
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Undead Fantasy
Member
So you like that Trunks does jack shit on his own arc?
Just_myles
Member
That literally has nothing to do with what he is doing. I am saying that the manga does a better job of handling power levels and that the anime having the sinner form was not explained and frankly stupid. It should be the Goku and Vegeta show but, it's dragonball. As a Gohan fan, I am suprised that you guys are suprised. Real talk.
So you like Future Trunks doing fucking nothing in the Future Trunks Arc?
Why does it need to be explained? who would even explain it? Future Trunks arc was good because trunks was the main character. I'd rather have mishandling of power levels than of characters
Just_myles
Member
Seriously?
I think some very light story exposition would have been in order. Would not have taken that long.
You see now Gohan, we can assume why he has the power level he has now. He has backstory explaining it.
Undead Fantasy
Member
Agree. SSJ2/3 weren't even explained.
Just_myles
Member
It's not about that. It's about explaining it and they did explain it. They gave you a brief clip and later on went on to explain the form.
Trunks form makes no sense. It is implying that he has a SSB if not a partial one. Goku and Vegeta trained with Whis... we know where that powerup came from.
DBGaf trippin. I stand by my statement. The manga does a better job in handling power levels.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
I don't think Super Trunks' transformation needs an explanation but I would be nice if it had a name at least.
That's whats so shocking to me.
I'd argue SSJ3 not being explained, I think it was explained alright, but SSJ2 wasn't explained for a long time, until Goku explained it in the Buu arc, until then it was explained as the things Trunks did against Cell, without the cost of speed.
My biggest thing is people not commenting on it, though Gowasu and Shin did, so only Gowasu did.
I thought we all agreed on Super Sinner Rage?
Beerus hits Bulma
Vegeta gets a rage boost way beyond what he was capable
Black and Zamasu kills millions of people, beat the shit out of his Vegeta, and then taunt Trunks saying it's all his fault
Trunks then gets an insane rage boost mixing rage with SSJ2.
Not that complicated.
Super Saiyan 2-2
Rapscallion
Member
Just rewatched the final episodes of Z. Man, I forgot how much of a collaborative effort it was to defeat Buu. In my memory I had only remembered Goku being the one to ultimately defeat Buu (with the help of the spirit bomb) but I had forgotten how it was Vegeta's plan, the dragon balls, and Satan's help that ultimately did it.
It really is a great final fight to close out the series; for Vegeta and Goku to finally come together and work together by using each other's strengths (Goku's sheer strength and Vegeta's tactics) it really brings Z full circle.
I wish we saw more of that in Super.
It really is a great final fight to close out the series; for Vegeta and Goku to finally come together and work together by using each other's strengths (Goku's sheer strength and Vegeta's tactics) it really brings Z full circle.
I wish we saw more of that in Super.
roflwaffles
Member
Both of those are pretty stupid. I'm generally against rage boosts anyway since it was more of a unique thing for Gohan before Super.
Neither the manga nor the anime are particularly great, both have glaring flaws. The manga tries to explain stuff which I appreciate but is lacking in character moments and is overall more boring. The anime creates a better sense of intrigue but drops the ball and just makes characters randomly more powerful than they were a second ago with no explanation as to insult your intelligence.
Just_myles
Member
Basically the form has a blue aura. If he had been like Gohan I could kind of accept that. But, to say he has attained God-hood, even partially, and not explaining it, is dumb. Too many commas.
Rage boosts were intended to be a hybrid thing. Human emotion boosting the saiyan's power.
It doesn't have to be God Ki. It's an issue we don't know what it is, but I'm still pretty sure we'll see Goten and Trunks get this form, as a form only hybrids can get, and then it'll hopefully be explained.
Seasoned Badger
Member
If Goku could do that why bother going thru that fusion nonsense. Goku could have used the last senzu bean himself and fought merged Zamasu without having Trunks do an ass pull. It's not as bad as the anime, yet. But it's getting there.
Fan theory. The show or manga never suggested this.
So Goku being strong enough to trade blows with Merged Zamasu, the same person who stomped him a chapter ago, makes perfect sense?
At least with Ki attacks, which was what hurt Zamasu the most in the anime, until Trunks, there's always the chance Zamasu didn't have enough time to put all his energy in an attack, like with the Kamehameha, which Zamasu had little reaction time for. Didn't the Kamehameha pierce through the attack?
It could also be argued that the merging of a god and mortal affected his power, and how much of it was being drained.
It could also be argued that the merging of a god and mortal affected his power, and how much of it was being drained.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Super Ningen
NeonZ
Member
Goku basically got a new form by perfecting Super Saiyan Blue. It's a bad excuse though. The only foreshadowing might have been how Trunks noticed last chapter Goku used SSB even after he had said he couldn't do it anymore.
Looking over this arc, I've noticed something about Toyotaro's writing style that's really bothering me now though - he's following Toriyama's outline, but he doesn't seem to be doing any arc long set up. All his additions to the outline seem to be focused on specific chapters or events, like he's making his additions while drawing the chapter. So, we get Vegeta's SSG with SSB in bursts that's immediately rendered irrelevant in the next chapter, and only was possible in the first place because he explained Vegeta training away the extra SSB weakness he had added in the last arc. And now Goku has his own improved SSB which hadn't even been hinted at before last chapter.
Toriyama also wrote without long planning for the original manga, but I think it stands out more here since Toyotaro is following a full story outline, so by adding new elements in a fairly episodic way like this they stand out against the planned events composing the overall arc, even more so in this case where he's behind the anime, so most people already know the rough event outline.
That is extremely unlikely. Do you know how fast these people's reaction time are. Merged Zamasu got caught with his pants down because he thought only using a faction of his power was enough to crushed everyone. He didn't get serious until Goku disfigured him.
Nope, no such thing was suggested.
It isn't a new form, it's basically Mastered Super Saiyan with god ki. Which makes no sense since Mastered Super Saiyan doesn't make a Super Saiyan form stronger, just more energy efficient. And you just now noticed this? I have mentioned this for months when it comes to Toyo's writing, especially after Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta matched Super Saiyan 1/2 Black after Toyo made Super Saiyan 2 Trunks equal to Super Saiyan 3 Goku.
Toyo had no excuse for writing chapter by chapter since he has at least a month to plan things out while Toriyama had a week.
NeonZ
Member
It gave Goku in the Cell Saga a much bigger boost than what Vegeta got out of SSJ Grade 2 though, and SSJB in the manga had a much bigger ki leakage than the original SSJ, so fixing that logically should leader to a bigger comparative boost.
The problem here is that there was no hint at all that Goku had been training to achieve a form like that aside from the last chapter, which was already in the middle of this battle.
Just_myles
Member
I don't follow. It was explained what Goku in SSB can do and I got that from a gaffer's post. Try again.
The manga does a better job with power levels. I didn't say story or pacing. Staahp!
The boost came from Goku and Gohan being plain stronger than Vegeta and Trunks. Vegeta even explained this to Trunks that Mastered Super Saiyan doesn't boost power, it just makes the Super Saiyan form more efficient so Goku and Gohan can fight at their full power longer. He then mocked Trunks for thinking it was about power.
I just explained in my other posts why this doesn't make any sense along with other posters. Mastered Super Saiyan doesn't increase power. It is just energy efficient. So Goku shouldn't go from being stomped by Merged Zamasu to being able to take hits from him.
So no, the power scaling doesn't make sense in this case.
well at least in the anime he built a giant bird thingie out of ki that had to be dealt with first before even touching merged zamasu so...
NeonZ
Member
He didn't say that. Trunks thought Goku would use another transformation on top of SSJ, since he was using it as his normal state, but then Vegeta explained that they decided that what they had seen was their best combat form, and they could use it with minimal strain.
It just doesn't make sense to assume that Mastered Super Saiyan doesn't boost power, and Goku's power up came from some unseen and never mentioned training method that was superior to Vegeta's. If there was a second factor there, it would have been mentioned. What made him superior was Mastered Super Saiyan in the first place.
Yes, but the whole idea that Mastered Super Saiyan was stronger was mocked by Vegeta. It was just energy saving, not something that made the Super Saiyan form actually stronger.
Icyflamez96
Member
You're definitely right, at least for this arc.
Though I don't think SSR needed anymore of an explanation than SSJ2 got in the moment. He got mad and rage boosted into a new form, seems fine to me. I just found it bad that no one acknowledged it.
NeonZ
Member
It wasn't though. What Vegeta mocked was Trunks' idea that they'd transform into something on top of Mastered Super Saiyan.
Just_myles
Member
I did see your last post and I don't agree. Toyo does a much better job in explaining. The anime implies simply powering up and using boost makes a fighter stronger. Trunks form in the anime is silly and visually implies he has some sort of God ki.
In the manga, we still have SS red and blue being used. SSB is a powerful form. Goku mastering it should give him some sort of physical advantage. Toyo even bothering to explain it just makes it that much better.
Again, I reiterate, I only speak in terms of power level scaling and explanation. The anime is horrible at this. At some point we have to move past rage boost. Or at least make Trunks new form not look like a god form(blue aura).
The point is that Mastered Super Saiyan doesn't boost like Ultra Super Saiyan or Super Vegeta. It is just Super Saiyan with better energy controls.
Trunks was never implied to have god ki. The Supreme Kais called Super Saiyan Rage the power of Trunks' anger, which is basically what Super Saiyan Rage is as the name implies. So the anime not explaining is untrue since the anime straight up told you it wasn't a god form.
Goku mastered it, yet only decided now to used and again, Mastered Super Saiyan doesn't boost power in the way that the manga is saying it does. It just make it energy efficient. So from scaling, Goku shouldn't suddenly go from standing no chance against Merged Zamasu to taking hits from him.
And I repeat, the manga really doesn't do a better job and in some cases goes against the manga and Toriyama's own words. The anime may not be perfect at scaling, but we don't have stuff like Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta being evenly matched against Super Saiyan 1/2 Black, when base form Black kicked the shit out of Super Saiyan 2 Trunks, whose Super Saiyan 2 form is equal to Super Saiyan 3 Goku. And how much of a power boost did Vegeta get when training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber when Super Saiyan 1/2 Black beat the crap out of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta before he even turned Rose?
Undead Fantasy
Member
Seasoned Badger
Member
Those aren't power levels though.....
Icyflamez96
Member
He didn't say he was ranking them by power levels in that post.
VJump is hyping up the U7 team this month
Also notes Gohan's potential is an unknown capacity, and greater than Goku's. Says Dadgeta won't let the universe be destroyed cause his daughter was just born, etc. Overall nothing really new, just teases this week's episode which we already know...
including Buu who is described in the magazine as having shaped up following his match with U9...
I was curious what they're supposed to be.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
They should've just retconned ssjrage into the real ssj3, and just have goku's weird neanderthal look be some forced mutant ssj form.
VJump editor's anticipation ranking for each character.
Icyflamez96
Member
This is my headcanon
Neat. Surprised Tien scored a 5 in that.
does SSJ3 even need an explanation?
Goku stayed in SSJ2 for a long while, then he remembered that time Krillin got killed
this process was not scaled to a SSJ4 because SSJ3 was already a bad form enough
lol
Goku stayed in SSJ2 for a long while, then he remembered that time Krillin got killed
this process was not scaled to a SSJ4 because SSJ3 was already a bad form enough
lol
Buu
Goku stole Buu's, 17's, and 18's stars when they weren't looking.
The only way I can justify 18 being so low.
Wished manga and anime would of done SSJ Blue as a permanent replacement of regular SSJ, especially since the way Goku was explaining it in Resurrection F, it sounded like a (very positive) side effect of activating SSJ after ascending into godhood.
And it's even weirder that the manga still keeps SSJ God around. The whole point of that was evoking godly ki on someone who isn't a god. (Goku being the rare exception to understanding godly ki enough during his short time with it)
NeonZ
Member
I really liked that sequence in the end of the movie when Goku activated SSJ God again by himself, so I was happy to see it returning in the manga.
I'd have preferred if it had been stronger than SSJ Blue though, rather than just an energy saving form. Just make it somehow hard to trigger even after using it before.
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