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[Crocodile]

I didn't even need to read the article/watch the video because I thought this was common knowledge but, though I guess I shouldn't be surprised, it seems some posters weren't aware?

This is one of those things that is a non-issue on a small scale - obviously some villainous characters should be dark-skinned. No group is a monolith and quality representation means you want to hit the entire spectrum of personalities, etc. The issue is the overwhelming and reoccurring pattern that ties dark skin to evil time and time again (or also light skin to purity). It gets extra awkward when you have narratively-driven palate swaps (which seem to be the jumping off point for this conversation). Like I'm not going to lose a minute of sleep over Evil Ryu or whatever but it is part of a larger, problematic pattern. It should also go without saying this applies only when you are talking about human skin-tones and not like blue or green or whatever colored people.

I think/hope this just becomes less of an issue as well get more varied representation of characters of different ethnicities across gaming. That might be a bit trickier if these conversations aren't being had worldwide because its a bias that's very easy to fall into if you aren't paying attention. I for example don't think the people making Kingdom Hearts are making there character designs with malice in their hearts but they still are diving head long into these stereotypes and that's a problem.

 

[LinkAndEpona]

What we need here is street fighter alts that make every character a different skin color. That'd be a cool start to say the least.

This is one thing I like about SkullGirls, there's already lots of diversity but there's also tons of color palette swap DLC skins.

 

[SalvaPot]

This reminds me of Ippo. Because one of the boxers is black he is taller, stronger and faster than your average fighter.

And he is also one of the nicest boxers Ippo faced (We are talking about the american militar dude, right?)

The strongest character in the series has darker skin (Takamura), and the ultimate champion is Mexican.

 

[Choppasmith]

Remember when this happened in One Piece

Is that really the OFFICIAL translation they went with? In the dub they went with "champion making the afro"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hq5L9cPkvA

That's actually pretty funny. It feels like this gives off more a vibe of boasting, since it really doesn't seem demeaning (sort of like exclaiming how awesome it is). The big 70s Afros seems pretty much are a gag these days, even things like Black Dynamite use it as a laughing point. I think people respect afros more than mullets, because the latter is associated with rednecks and crazies.

That's the impression I got especially when watching it dubbed, but then I'm white so I don't have the authority to say if it's right or not.

People are talking Evil Ryu, but I think Violent Ken is WAY worse imo

 

[akira28]

He's explicitly claiming those color schemes to be universal. You're jumping on grain silos.

is that supposed to be the new 'tilting at windmills'?

 

[Nanashrew]

And he is also one of the nicest boxers Ippo faced (We are talking about the american militar dude, right?)

Yeah, he was a cool dude.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

You're being sarcastic, right?

No?

 

[Toxi]

Average of dark skinned bad guys against bad white guys?

Higher than the average of dark skinned good guys against good white guys.

Is that really the OFFICIAL translation they went with? In the dub they went with "champion making the afro"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hq5L9cPkvA

That's a fan translation.

Either the fan translation "spiced it up" in the worst way possible, or the dub understandably changed that scene. Both sound plausible.

 

[fresquito]

Much higher than the ratio of dark skinned protagonists vs white protagonists unfortunately.

Probably because there're more white skinned people making games?

When you are white and you make a game the bad guy can be white, black or green, whatever fits the story or concept. But for the protagonist, unless you have an specific setting for him, you will go with your standard. That specific can be either having a racial connotation, a gender connotation, a personality connotation...

I mean, it is not rocket science. I'm doing a game myself and my chars will most likely not be dark skinned. Dark skinned people don't play a substantial role in my life, simple as that.

But hey, everybody got the right to be offended, isn't it? Like, Evil Ryu and Violent Ken could be dark skinned because the artist wanted to empower their consumed by an inner fire look of them. Or it could be because they are racists.

Since everyone has the right to be offended, allow me take offense from threads like these.

 

[megarockexe]

.

Well you see, it's because she's supposed to be... oh.

 

[Kwame120]

Here's the thing: that concept isn't applied in a racial standpoint. It works within one ethnicity (in this case, Japanese). It shouldn't be used for racial comparisons.

Applying it within a single ethnicity is still harmful. You're relating negative characteristics to the colour of someone's skin, they don't have to be a different race for it not to be a negative stereotype.

Additionally, it eventually turns into a race thing, regardless. You're stereotyping based on skin colour, such an association is obvious when you introduce people of a darker coloured race.

Probably because there're more white skinned people making games?

When you are white and you make a game the bad guy can be white, black or green, whatever fits the story or concept. But for the protagonist, unless you have an specific setting for him, you will go with your standard. That specific can be either having a racial connotation, a gender connotation, a personality connotation...

I mean, it is not rocket science. I'm doing a game myself and my chars will most likely not be dark skinned. Dark skinned people don't play a substantial role in my life, simple as that.

So you've already admitted an ability to go beyond your standard when considering the villains, why not when considering the protagonist? Storytelling is all about imagination - of course your themes and many aspects will be grounded, giving your work relevancy beyond its entertainment, but you should be able to create a character outside of your a posteriori norm. While doing so requires research, I believe that you'd find such a process enlightening in improving your own work - you'll expand the ideas you can work with, and the variety that it'll bring will make your work more interesting.

But hey, everybody got the right to be offended, isn't it? Like, Evil Ryu and Violent Ken could be dark skinned because the artist wanted to empower their consumed by an inner fire look of them. Or it could be because they are racists.

Since everyone has the right to be offended, allow me take offense from threads like these.

"consumed by an inner fire look of them" Why is this a thing? I can't understand how people can be saying that, and not realising how racist it is. So black people are "consumed by an inner fire"? Or perhaps that's the expectation, and stereotype, from looking at them? It's incredibly harmful to consider what a person is like based simply on how they look; you trivialise all the experiences they've been through and choices they've made throughout life, and make a judgement wholly divorced from their actions and intentions (which is grossly insulting and unfair) - and it's incredibly frustrating to read that, immediately followed with "Or it could be because they are racists" - as if the former is not, in fact, racist.

 

[Crocodile]

This is an example of you reading waaaaaay too much I to what was a simple change from tan because she's a pirate and out in the open sun to magically pale, because she's a princess that stays in all the time. The "upgrade" is purely of your own concoction

There was no way to know she had a tan before she changed into Zelda and there were plenty of Pirates in that game that had no tan. It still plays into "tanned people are lower class" which became tied to naturally dark-skinned people tropes and associations IRL. Like it wasn't something that angered me persay but I still noticed it and it still falls into this pattern. It also plays into the "is this fictional character tanned or naturally dark skinned" debate that happens from time to time and is always annoying as all fuck.

 

[Glitter and Gold]

Probably because there're more white skinned people making games?

When you are white and you make a game the bad guy can be white, black or green, whatever fits the story or concept. But for the protagonist, unless you have an specific setting for him, you will go with your standard. That specific can be either having a racial connotation, a gender connotation, a personality connotation...

I mean, it is not rocket science. I'm doing a game myself and my chars will most likely not be dark skinned. Dark skinned people don't play a substantial role in my life, simple as that.

But hey, everybody got the right to be offended, isn't it? Like, Evil Ryu and Violent Ken could be dark skinned because the artist wanted to empower their consumed by an inner fire look of them. Or it could be because they are racists.

Since everyone has the right to be offended, allow me take offense from threads like these.

Hmmmmmmmmmm

 

[LinkAndEpona]

No?

Well damn...

Anyway, so far into this thread surely you've read what ying-yang is, so there should be no more misunderstanding about what the light/dark theme means especially considering games that originated from Japan.

 

[Toxi]

Probably because there're more white skinned people making games?

When you are white and you make a game the bad guy can be white, black or green, whatever fits the story or concept. But for the protagonist, unless you have an specific setting for him, you will go with your standard. That specific can be either having a racial connotation, a gender connotation, a personality connotation...

I mean, it is not rocket science. I'm doing a game myself and my chars will most likely not be dark skinned. Dark skinned people don't play a substantial role in my life, simple as that.

Weird how the villains and other characters are "whatever fits the story or concept" and not the heroes.

 

[Glitter and Gold]

People are talking Evil Ryu, but I think Violent Ken is WAY worse imo

Oh my god loooooool

Weird how the villains "whatever fits the story or concept" and not the heroes.

Curious. Very very curious.

 

[Crocodile]

Probably because there're more white skinned people making games?

When you are white and you make a game the bad guy can be white, black or green, whatever fits the story or concept. But for the protagonist, unless you have an specific setting for him, you will go with your standard. That specific can be either having a racial connotation, a gender connotation, a personality connotation...

I mean, it is not rocket science. I'm doing a game myself and my chars will most likely not be dark skinned. Dark skinned people don't play a substantial role in my life, simple as that.

But hey, everybody got the right to be offended, isn't it? Like, Evil Ryu and Violent Ken could be dark skinned because the artist wanted to empower their consumed by an inner fire look of them. Or it could be because they are racists.

Since everyone has the right to be offended, allow me take offense from threads like these.

This might be a waste of my breath but I'll say this anyway:

Artists are allowed to make what they want and consumers are allowed to criticize those artists. That's the natural order so to speak. That doesn't change the problem that artists can and do create characters that don't look like them all the time and find great success. That doesn't change that many of the people who would be interested in a product don't look anything like the people who create them - its usually a good idea to step outside your own perspective from time to time. That doesn't change the fact that its a problem, on a broad, macroscopic scale if there is a significant disconnect between the people/characters in consumer products and the actual consumers. That also doesn't change the fact that people who criticize these products can do so without being "offended".

 

[dickgumshoe]

Probably because there're more white skinned people making games?

When you are white and you make a game the bad guy can be white, black or green, whatever fits the story or concept. But for the protagonist, unless you have an specific setting for him, you will go with your standard. That specific can be either having a racial connotation, a gender connotation, a personality connotation...

I mean, it is not rocket science. I'm doing a game myself and my chars will most likely not be dark skinned. Dark skinned people don't play a substantial role in my life, simple as that.

But hey, everybody got the right to be offended, isn't it? Like, Evil Ryu and Violent Ken could be dark skinned because the artist wanted to empower their consumed by an inner fire look of them. Or it could be because they are racists.

Since everyone has the right to be offended, allow me take offense from threads like these.

This isn't about being offended. This also isn't about any single darker skinned villain. Even if every single instance of a darker skinned villain can be reasonably explained, there can still be a larger problem of representation. Is this such a difficult thing to understand?

 

[wandering]

Well damn...

Anyway, so far into this thread surely you've read what ying-yang is, so there should be no more misunderstanding about what the light/dark theme means especially considering games that originated from Japan.

Yin-yang doesn't really work, though, because yin (the dark side) is associated with passivity, and yang (the light side) with aggressiveness.

 

[fresquito]

Weird how the villains and other characters are "whatever fits the story or concept" and not the heroes.

Because heroes are meant to be played by the player and bad guys are not? When you think about a player, it is just natural to look at your personal sorrounding, unless you're obsessed with racial affairs, which most people are not.

This isn't about being offended. This also isn't about any single darker skinned villain. Even if every single instance of a darker skinned villain can be reasonably explained, there can still be a larger problem of representation. Is this such a difficult thing to understand?

Don't stop there. Why most games take place in America? I want someone to do a game about Spain, I'm tired of all games being US-focused. Can't all these americans just offer some bigger diversity? Can't they think of spaniards?

Or, maybe, we, spaniards, could start doing our own games about Spain, just like some people worried about racial representation could start doing their games about the issues they are worried about. I might have missed it, but last time I checked, there was no big game about racial issues written from a mature point of view. One game that made all other titles feel childish in comparision. Maybe the goal poles need to be moved by those that are worried about the issue instead of asking other people to move them.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Yin-yang doesn't really work, though, because yin, the dark side, is associated with passivity, and yang, the light side, with aggressiveness.

Also that yin is attributed with femaleness and yang is attributed with maleness.

Like yin yang isn't "light good dark bad"

 

[Akainu]

Well damn...

Anyway, so far into this thread surely you've read what ying-yang is, so there should be no more misunderstanding about what the light/dark theme means especially considering games that originated from Japan.

But the white of the yin and yang is aggressiveness while the black is calmness.

 

[veloxStrix]

Yin-yang doesn't really work, though, because yin (the dark side) is associated with passivity, and yang (the light side) with aggressiveness.

You know, barring you know, that Yin also stands for negativity, femininity, treachery, and overcast weather as well. I think it also has some literal associations with buildings and landmarks.

Edit: If I remember correctly, Yin-yang are also have completely non-static, flowing, contextual meanings so it could basically be whatever. That said, I doubt "aggressiveness" in the Yang is so much "violence" as it is "vicariousness" in any traditional sense.

 

[LotusHD]

Because heroes are meant to be played by the player and bad guys are not? When you think about a player, it is just natural to look at your personal sorrounding, unless you're obsessed with racial affairs, which most people are not.

Yea, god forbid minorities care about this sort of stuff...

 

[Kwame120]

Because heroes are meant to be played by the player and bad guys are not? When you think about a player, it is just natural to look at your personal sorrounding, unless you're obsessed with racial affairs, which most people are not.

Yes and no, in fact. Of course, it is natural to consider your own surroundings, which you could say is why white guys tend to write white guys. However, you do also consider the media you consume. I found that for a while the "default" character that came to mind was a white guy, despite me myself being a black dude, simply because in virtually all the media I experience, the white guys are the main characters. Black guys are either the sidekicks, or villains. (This is not unlike the doll experiment that was posted earlier in the thread.) It's taken me a while to get out of that, because I believe that the dearth of black characters in media needs to be seriously challenged, So yes, being "obsessed" with racial affairs is important, because it affects how people perceive a particular race, even their own, and it should not need spelling out how dangerous and rude that is, though I can direct you to my latest post before this one for a small explanation of this.

And do you think that your game will only be played by white guys? If you were going purely down the representation route, then surely a player created character is best, to maximise the player's connection with the character? Or if you want a set character, then you can have some diversity in your work - to cater for the diverse peoples that'll be playing it.

You'll also find that variety is a good thing. Not only does it make one's stories more interesting, and therefore make one a better storyteller - but enabling us to experience things outside of our own usual experiences, through the medium of gaming in this instance, allows us to learn more about ourselves and the world, and become more considerate, knowledgeable and enlightened people.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

There was no way to know she had a tan before she changed into Zelda and there were plenty of Pirates in that game that had no tan. It still plays into "tanned people are lower class" which became tied to naturally dark-skinned people tropes and associations IRL. Like it wasn't something that angered me persay but I still noticed it and it still falls into this pattern. It also plays into the "is this fictional character tanned or naturally dark skinned" debate that happens from time to time and is always annoying as all fuck.

I'm not sure that's true...this is her crew. All of them are much darker than the average villager on Outset Island

 

[starchild excalibur]

This isn't about being offended. This also isn't about any single darker skinned villain. Even if every single instance of a darker skinned villain can be reasonably explained, there can still be a larger problem of representation. Is this such a difficult thing to understand?

Exactly. It's basically the "Thousand year old dragon"-type defense.

And the notion that you have to hang out with black people before you bother to insert positive representations of that ethnicity in your game is mind-boggling. It reeks of when the Coen brothers explained the lack of minority representation in most of their films by saying how they weren't black and therefore couldn't write a black character any moreso than they could write an alien character. As if a black character can only be defined by their "blackness."

It doesn't hurt to be conscious of representation or - on the most basic level - to create a game that can appeal to a larger demographic especially if doing so doesn't come to the detriment of your game.

 

[NightwingRebirth]

Went through 5 pages and had to stop, the handwaving and dismissing of this is sad, tbh.

At least there were a lot of posters who either recognized the problem beforehand or after watching the video in the OP.

For anyone who comes in to this thread and reads this, ready to try and dismiss this, just understand this: I want more PoC protagonists, for sure, but I don't have a problem with a PoC villain or anything like that. The inherent problem that this thread is about is introducing a darker-skinned character than the protagonist specifically to symbolize that they are "evil."

Change their clothes, change their eyes to glowing red ones, whatever visual indicators you want to use, just use them. But do not change their skin colour just to continue perpetuating the idea that darker-skinned people are evil. It may be unintentional on the part of older, Japanese developers, but it is still racist. Not that those developers will ever read this post, smh.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I'm normally very sensitive to this kind of thing, but this feels like the wrong approach to me. It's the same fallacy of "strong female characters" being almost entirely "women that are strong/kick ass." I get that in our modern era there's a huge problem with how minorities are perceived and used in media. But I think that lies more in those characters being flat, two-dimensional "bad guys" that aren't interesting.

The argument should be that brown-skinned characters should be better characters, not that they shouldn't be evil. I think it's regressive to say "audiences should know that when they see a brown skinned character, they're a good guy." No. We should have fleshed out characters of all skin colors, and have people be evil because of their ideas and actions, not simply skin color.

Evil characters are some of our favorite characters in media. Oftentimes a story is only as good as its villain, because a good villain is a reflection of the worst in all of us, and that's what makes them fascinating. Look at the Joker, which is in interesting character and a compelling contrast to Batman. If the Joker was black, would that be bad? No, we'd have a badass black villain character that is really interesting.

In short I think making all brown-skinned characters "good" is really selling it short. It's the same kind of backhanded "helpful" patriarchy type thing where women can't be villains. Fuck that. Dredd was awesome and it had a fantastic female lead villain.

I'd really rather not fix the problem of people being put into one box by saying, "let's put them in this other box instead."

Watch the fucking video

This isn't about making PoC antagonists, FFS

 

[LinkSlayer64]

This reminds me that Widowmaker is an interesting place where her skin color changes as part of becoming evil, but it doesn't sit anywhere at a point of being offensive...
Cept maybe to the blue Man group.

 

[hurricanes]

Hyrule Warriors and recent FEs... coupling with the problematic homosexual portrayal in P4/5, is the sad reality that JP Video games has major issues to with. Funny that all those franchises(except HW which is a lone entry) were better in the past. As soon as they decided to pander to lowest denominator(yeah, I am talking about waifu crap)everything went off a cliff.

 

[Glitter and Gold]

Hyrule Warriors and recent FEs... coupling with the problematic homosexual portrayal in P4/5, is the sad reality that JP Video games has major issues to with. Funny that all those franchises(except HW which is a lone entry) were better in the past. As soon as they decided to pander to lowest denominator(yeah, I am talking about waifu crap)everything went off a cliff.

If you're extending this discussion beyond the scope of the thread(color coding antagonists/villains with darker skin) then this definitely isn't a problem exclusive to japan. Western games have there own bias and representation issues. We're just fortunate enough to recognize skin color as an aspect of identity and not just an accessory or aspect of character design.(....mostly)

and there are plenty of games that do get it right on both sides of the pond.

Not trying to defend Japan here, I just don't like when these threads turn towards the way of shifting blame to an "other" group. We all have to own these issues and challenge our own ways of thinking. Don't turn it into someone else's problem

 

[Boss Doggie]

I seriously hope people aren't putting racial undertones in stuff like Evil Ryu and Violent Ken.

We got stuff like this in It's less about race and more of colors, as in literal colors, with black (and even white) = evil. Yeah, white is also considered evil especially in Eastern themes.

It's why you got MetaKnight, the evil version of DeDeDe, Shadow the Hedgehog, etc.

 

[Akainu]

You know, barring you know, that Yin also stands for negativity, femininity, treachery, and overcast weather as well. I think it also has some literal associations with buildings and landmarks.

Edit: If I remember correctly, Yin-yang are also have completely non-static, flowing, contextual meanings so it could basically be whatever. That said, I doubt "aggressiveness" in the Yang is so much "violence" as it is "vicariousness" in any traditional sense.

Never heard of treachery, but don't you see the inherent bias? People bring up yin and yang and it's the white that is obviously the good element.

 

[Glitter and Gold]

I seriously hope people aren't putting racial undertones in stuff like Evil Ryu and Violent Ken.

We got stuff like this in It's less about race and more of colors, as in literal colors, with black (and even white) = evil. Yeah, white is also considered evil especially in Eastern themes.

That's the problem. Skin color shouldn't be thought of as just an aspect of design. It's an aspect of identity and something that doesn't change based on morality so it's not cool to see it treated as such in entertainment and games.

and come on that Violent Ken art from CvS1 literally has Ken's hair frizzed up into an afro puff. I mean come on.

It's why you got MetaKnight, the evil version of DeDeDe, Shadow the Hedgehog, etc.

COME. ON.

 

[Crocodile]

I'm not sure that's true...this is her crew. All of them are much darker than the average villager on Outset Island

They could be darker than your average Outset Island (I don't really feel prowling through screenshots right now) but there is still no reason to assume they are tanned (and some of them are lighter than Tetra). The Zelda thing still plays into "plebs get tans because they are working and the elite are paler" trope you see play out in many places in the world. Doesn't Tetra change right back to being "tan" once she stops being Zelda at the end of the game? The game doesn't really treat it like a tan, tans can't be switched on and off via transformations.

 

[Spyware]

I became aware of this around the time I watched The Lion King 2. That felt so much like "oh no the pure white girl can't hang out with the bad dark boy!"
And then it occured to me this was a thing in the first movie (why is Scar darker and everyone else the exact same?) and I also started noticing it in other films and other media. And it annoyed me.

Worst example I've seen must be Cia from Hyrule Warriors. That is just straigh up mega offensive.

Yeah I know we have a "light = good and safe" and "dark = bad and scary" thing in the world and yada yada, but why that has to be shown by SKINTONE of all things is seriously beyond me.
Just switch the clothes/aura/whatevs if it's so important, done.

 

[fresquito]

Yes and no, in fact. Of course, it is natural to consider your own surroundings, which you could say is why white guys tend to write white guys. However, you do also consider the media you consume. I found that for a while the "default" character that came to mind was a white guy, despite me myself being a black dude, simply because in virtually all the media I experience, the white guys are the main characters. Black guys are either the sidekicks, or villains. (This is not unlike the doll experiment that was posted earlier in the thread.) It's taken me a while to get out of that, because I believe that the dearth of black characters in media needs to be seriously challenged, So yes, being "obsessed" with racial affairs is important, because it affects how people perceive a particular race, even their own, and it should not need spelling out how dangerous and rude that is, though I can direct you to my latest post before this one for a small explanation of this.

And do you think that your game will only be played by white guys? If you were going purely down the representation route, then surely a player created character is best, to maximise the player's connection with the character? Or if you want a set character, then you can have some diversity in your work - to cater for the diverse peoples that'll be playing it.

You'll also find that variety is a good thing. Not only does it make one's stories more interesting, and therefore make one a better storyteller - but enabling us to experience things outside of our own usual experiences, through the medium of gaming in this instance, allows us to learn more about ourselves and the world, and become more considerate, knowledgeable and enlightened people.

Okay, let me tell you my thought proccess in this regard for my game.

In my game the protagonist is a no name. So I thought whether he should be male or female and concluded I would probably give the player the option. since it's "just" creating two models and adding some gender variables here and there.

I have planned a parents system, so there would be a father and a mother. Then I questioned myself whether that would always be the case, because not everybody has a mother and a father. Some people don't have any, or have two mothers or two fathers, or only one. But I really did not want to go that route because a) it complicates my job quite a lot more than I need to and, more importantly, b) because the focus on my game is not there.

Going back to gender, and in this case, sex, I was considering love affairs, then I thought it would be good to have the option to be gay. Then I questioned myself whether I should include other sexual orientations, or even expand the gender possibilities, like being transgender. And again, points A and B where showed me the way.

Don't you think I did not consider racial diversity as well. Know what? A and B are everywhere!

In the end, you cannot spend your resources in something that's not the focus, unless you have unlimited resources. So, yeah, as much reasonable as your post reads, it is not reasonable to ask games to offer so many options, because it's not only about one color or one gender or whatever. Every choice can have serious implications in what other work you need to do to accomodate these options. Like I should redesign the whole parents system to accomodate for diversity, and I should redesign the whole gender/sex system or the whole racial system, because I'm not going to add these just for the looks. I want to add them just if it's meaningful to the experience. And yes, I know the experience comes from the player, and all, but there're so many players, I can't create a game that can cater to all of them. Let's see first if I can create a game that caters to anybody, lol.

Edit:

Yea, god forbid minorities care about this sort of stuff...

You are mixing being obsessed with caring.

 

[Shang]

it's an interesting idea, I wonder where the archetypal concept of light/good vs. evil/dark really comes from

 

[Glitter and Gold]

Okay, let me tell you my thought proccess in this regard for my game.

In my game the protagonist is a no name. So I thought whether he should be male or female and concluded I would probably give the player the option. since it's "just" creating two models and adding some gender variables here and there.

I have planned a parents system, so there would be a father and a mother. Then I questioned myself whether that would always be the case, because not everybody has a mother and a father. Some people don't have any, or have two mothers or two fathers, or only one. But I really did not want to go that route because a) it complicates my job quite a lot more than I need to and, more importantly, b) because the focus on my game is not there.

Going back to gender, and in this case, sex, I was considering love affairs, then I thought it would be good to have the option to be gay. Then I questioned myself whether I should include other sexual orientations, or even expand the gender possibilities, like being transgender. And again, points A and B where showed me the way.

Don't you think I did not consider racial diversity as well. Know what? A and B are everywhere!

In the end, you cannot spend your resources in something that's not the focus, unless you have unlimited resources. So, yeah, as much reasonable as your post reads, it is not reasonable to ask games to offer so many options, because it's not only about one color or one gender or whatever. Every choice can have serious implications in what other work you need to do to accomodate these options. Like I should redesign the whole parents system to accomodate for diversity, and I should redesign the whole gender/sex system or the whole racial system, because I'm not going to add these just for the looks. I want to add them just if it's meaningful to the experience. And yes, I know the experience comes from the player, and all, but there're so many players, I can't create a game that can cater to all of them. Let's see first if I can create a game that caters to anybody, lol.

That's not what you said though

I mean, it is not rocket science. I'm doing a game myself and my chars will most likely not be dark skinned. Dark skinned people don't play a substantial role in my life, simple as that.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[fresquito]

That's not what you said though

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

How it is not what I said? Dark skinned people don't play a role in my life, so I don't need any racial connotation in my game. It's simple. Yet, the fact that I did not feel the urge to include racial connotations doesn't mean I did not consider the possibility. The "most likely" part might have slipped through your head.

 

[veloxStrix]

Never heard of treachery, but don't you see the inherent bias? People bring up yin and yang and it's the white that is obviously the good element.

Why do you think that is? Because of racial connotations or because of an inherent cultural meaning of a color dating back from a pre-evolutionary time when we feared the dark due to not being nocturnal and many of our natural predators being so? The significance of the color black through many cultures is one of evolution's nasty tricks and the idea that the majority of our perception comes from race pulls a shade over something that could end up being a key piece to the solution of solving these issues.

 

[SkyOdin]

Why do you think that is? Because of racial connotations or because of an inherent cultural meaning of a color dating back from a pre-evolutionary time when we feared the dark due to not being nocturnal and many of our natural predators being so? The significance of the color black through many cultures is one of evolution's nasty tricks and the idea that the majority of our perception comes from race pulls a shade over something that could end up being a key piece to the solution of solving these issues.

Do you have any science or research to back up these claims about evolutionary biology?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

They could be darker than your average Outset Island (I don't really feel prowling through screenshots right now) but there is still no reason to assume they are tanned (and some of them are lighter than Tetra). The Zelda thing still plays into "plebs get tans because they are working and the elite are paler" trope you see play out in many places in the world. Doesn't Tetra change right back to being "tan" once she stops being Zelda at the end of the game? The game doesn't really treat it like a tan, tans can't be switched on and off via transformations.

Which was my original point. It's just a magic transformation. The fact that she gains and loses her princess outfit and magical abilities don't make sense either. It's literally just her assuming the look and abilities of Zelda and losing them after.

Not to mention what you said was a trope was actually a thing, and the game didn't make any reference to one being "superior" or more "good" than the other, so I'm confused what it had to do with the topic at hand

 

[joe2187]

They do that in some Street Fighter games, actually. Not so much anymore.

I'm curious how that would play nowadays if the skin tone of the character was much more fluid outside of their default color. I think there's an equal chance it would be welcomed or disdained.

There is some in SFV, you gotta unlock them or purchase em with fight money.

 

[Shengar]

I think this is a valid and interesting discussion to be had. However I do find it rather unfortunate that many discussion seems to be taken on the ground of America racial socio-history. This isn't a problem in itself of course, but since there are a lot of characters from Japanese games mentioned (OP used Hyrule Warriors as an example), things are bound to be complicated. Careful observation and conclusion needs to be exercised in order to not to accused or assumed people of different cultural background having the same racial perspective or reasoning as one did from America.

 

[vocab]

People are talking Evil Ryu, but I think Violent Ken is WAY worse imo

That is such an exaggerated caricature of Ken. Look at his hair, it's god damn ridiculous.

 

[Astral Dog]

Bowser was ahead of time.

I have trouble coming with examples beyond Ganondorf though. And he had a good reason.hmm

 

[Glitter and Gold]

Not to mention what you said was a trope was actually a thing, and the game didn't make any reference to one being "superior" or more "good" than the other, so I'm confused what it had to do with the topic at hand

She's literally a princess that shoots magic arrows when she's white and a pirate when she's dark

 

[Astral Dog]

Oh so this about rivals like Shadow,Dark Link,evil Ryu,etc. Makes sense

Its a case of the Dark is Evil trope