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[Walpurgis]

Just so you know, not every black man's hair is like that. For example my hair is more of say someone from like India and I'm from Haiti. I know a lot of black men in London with the type of hair I have.

if I cut my hair, it might look like what it does in the picture you posted but if I let it grow out, it looks nothing like that. So i don't think it's the "gold standard" as you put it.

It is a common misconception that all black people have the same facial features and hair when that isn't the case. Africa is a big continent so there is a ton of diversity.

 

[canedaddy]

As a white person with long hair down to my mid-back, a mustache, and a long goatee, I too understand the struggle. I'll let my combination of facial hair slide, but I can't stand when there are no long hair options for men.

Ralphpunzel!

 

[Unreal Champ]

Jacob from Mass Effect is the gold standard for a common black mans hair. Made me sad you couldn't pick his hair in create-a-player.

Sorry to inform you but that is not the gold standard for common black man's hair. You need to stop letting society and the media dictate to you what is standard.

It is a common misconception that all black people have the same facial features and hair when that isn't the case. Africa is a big continent so there is a ton of diversity.

Pretty much this

 

[orthodoxy1095]

As a white person who has wavy hair when long, I always knew but still find it funny that there are even fewer options than typically "black" hair styles.

Character creators are obviously the worst for non-Whites, but yeah the options across the board are pretty shite.

Unless you're a very, very stereotypically featured white American/Brit male, good luck getting yourself into a game.

 

[Golnei]

Dragon's Dogma was pretty bad in terms of hair, but the skintones available seemed to be proper alternate textures rather than darkened versions of a single one as well. The facial features available also weren't terribly diverse, but still managed to be more varied than a lot of games.

 

[DarkKyo]

My friend and I are making an indie game right now and you get to create the main character in it. They are just really simple sprite characters but I do worry about giving enough representation. Right now we only have three skin colors.. light, tan, and dark. Might have to add a few more before development is done because it's probably not inclusive enough.

 

[LordAmused]

Jacob from Mass Effect is the gold standard for a common black mans hair. Made me sad you couldn't pick his hair in create-a-player.

Having never played Mass Effect before, I thought this was Kanye West.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Wow! When I was a kid the only color they had was chinese.

Huh.

 

[Walpurgis]

Huh.

Chinese has always been my favourite colour as a kid.

 

[hwalker84]

Just so you know, not every black man's hair is like that. For example my hair is more of say someone from like India and I'm from Haiti. I know a lot of black men in London with the type of hair I have.

if I cut my hair, it might look like what it does in the picture you posted but if I let it grow out, it looks nothing like that. So i don't think it's the "gold standard" as you put it.

Sorry to inform you but that is not the gold standard for common black man's hair. You need to stop letting society and the media dictate to you what is standard.

You guys are killing me here. I'm literally busting out laughing. You're talking like I'm not a black male, don't have a black family, black friends, and have no idea our hair comes in a bunch of different styles, shapes, and textures. Did I say that's the hair that every black person on the planet has? I said it's the gold standard for the "common" style that a lot of us do have. Nothing more nothing less. Chill!

 

[Quicknock]

Yeeeeep.

We can even go into other aspects of character creation, like the available body shapes (usually extremely constrained and limited only to physically fit options or overly sexualized options in the case of female characters), which is also an area that can still see tons of improvement.

I know it's expensive and involves a lot of asset creation, but I personally believe that any game that includes character creation has an obligation to at least put in an effort to include a wider variety of options that cover all aspects of humanity. Anything less and the absence is keenly felt.

 

[Switzer]

I notice that its often more difficult/bad/impossible to create Asian genetics (is that a politically correct term lol?) than black. That being said, its mostly in western games, and white people are always default with very few exceptions.

Yeeeeep.

We can even go into other aspects of character creation, like the available body shapes (usually extremely constrained and limited only to physically fit options or overly sexualized options in the case of female characters), which is also an area that can still see tons of improvement.

I know it's expensive and involves a lot of asset creation, but I personally believe that any game that includes character creation has an obligation to at least put in an effort to include a wider variety of options that cover all aspects of humanity. Anything less and the absence is keenly felt.

This is a really hard problem to solve, because most games use a base "body" model for each gender that they scale in really basic ways (like height, though some don't even do that *cough* fallout *cough*). Even if you made an adaptable body model, your clothing and shit has to fit it without clipping into a horrible mess, which is an even harder problem. Swapping the head model is relatively easy in comparison.

 

[Quicknock]

This is a really hard problem to solve, because most games use a base "body" model for each gender that they scale in really basic ways (like height, though some don't even do that *cough* fallout *cough*). Even if you made an adaptable body model, your clothing and shit has to fit it without clipping into a horrible mess, which is an even harder problem. Swapping the head model is relatively easy in comparison.

Yeah, it's a hard problem, but one definitely worth solving IMO. I think PSO2, Dragon's Dogma, and Blade & Soul at least make decent efforts. Not perfect by any means, but mighty steps forward at least.

 

[Phoenix Fang]

You guys are killing me here. I'm literally busting out laughing. You're talking like I'm not a black male, don't have a black family, black friends, and have no idea our hair comes in a bunch of different styles, shapes, and textures. Did I say that's the hair that every black person on the planet has? I said it's the gold standard for the "common" style that a lot of us do have. Nothing more nothing less. Chill!

You're talking like I'm not a black male, don't have a black family, black friends, and have no idea our hair comes in a bunch of different styles, shapes, and textures. Did I say that you said every black person hair is like that on the planet? I said that it isn't the gold standard because its not. Chill out buddy because you cracking me up. Stop being hysterical.

 

[HappyBivouac]

I've always felt it's a bit odd that in most games with character creation, the "default" character you start with is almost always a white male. Why not have it start randomized and let the player go from there?

 

[Sblargh]

Regarding body types, saints row 4 has showed me anything is possible.

 

[Kenshin001]

I've always felt it's a bit odd that in most games with character creation, the "default" character you start with is almost always a white male. Why not have it start randomized and let the player go from there?

Probably because the majority of players are white males.

 

[HappyBivouac]

Probably because the majority of players are white males.

Not really an excuse. Making white males feel like they're the norm and everyone else is some kind of "other" isn't exactly a good thing.

 

[JSoup]

Wow! When I was a kid the only color they had was chinese.

I believe mustard yellow is still the standard skintone for a minifig that isn't specifically modeled after a character.

 

[Kenshin001]

Not really an excuse. Making white males feel like they're the norm and everyone else is some kind of "other" isn't exactly a good thing.

It's not an excuse, it's catering to your main market.

 

[Guess Who]

It's not an excuse, it's catering to your main market.

Ah yes, the "there's few female leads because women don't play games" argument, now for race.

 

[kruis]

Probably because the majority of players are white males.

And that's the case for the regions where western games sell the best (North America, EU, Australia, Russia).

 

[HappyBivouac]

It's not an excuse, it's catering to your main market.

Yeah, uh, as a white male myself, I don't really want to be "catered to" in that way.

I'm still grey on the whole "we need to have equal representation of all races/genders in EVERY piece of media ever," but I don't like to see one race/gender treated as an automatic default, with all others being in the margins.

 

[Raist]

it’s stated that a higher similarity between player and personal character leads to increased identification with the character, and coupled with the previous paragraph, we can assume that character-player similarity leads to media enjoyment. This would mean that if the player cannot create a character that properly resembles them, some enjoyment is lost. While of course some players sometimes want to play as characters that are dissimilar to themselves, studies show that most players find gaming scenarios more entertaining when they can create characters that are more in accordance to their own appearance (Trepte, Reinecke & Behr, 2009)

Really not so sure about that bit.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Really not so sure about that bit.

You have findings that counter theirs, or is this just your gut

 

[Kenshin001]

Ah yes, the "there's few female leads because women don't play games" argument, now for race.

We were talking about the default character in character creation and why it isn't a random thing. You are talking about something different. I mean you could make the default an Asian woman or something totally random and the vast majority of players are just going to change it to a white male anyway.

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

My friend and I are making an indie game right now and you get to create the main character in it. They are just really simple sprite characters but I do worry about giving enough representation. Right now we only have three skin colors.. light, tan, and dark. Might have to add a few more before development is done because it's probably not inclusive enough.

I'd say you're probably OK having a paucity of options, providing they're broadly representative but equally limited. The problem is more when there are twelve hairstyle subcategories for one creation and only two for another.

 

[magnetic]

I love diversity in character creators, if only because I love playing as women, but with a certain rather thick body type and great looking short hair. Saints Row 4 was great for this, my character has a fantastic pompadour haircut.

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but this isn't only great for people who want to represent themselves in games, but also for these who prefer playing as someone else entirely and like having options. I'm a white guy and almost exclusively play as women if I get the chance.

 

[Dee Dee]

We were talking about the default character in character creation and why it isn't a random thing. You are talking about something different. I mean you could make the default an Asian woman or something totally random and the vast majority of players are just going to change it to a white male anyway.

I'll challenge that statement by claiming that the majority of players will pick something else than a white male.

The study is not challenging your idea that white males are often the most popular option, it tries to argue that more options than that one will lead to more people enjoying your game, despite not being your "main market".
RPG have a very high female player base, so according to your logic, the standard Dragon Age avatar should probably be female for example.

That's besides the point of the article though, but to engage in that line of thinking, finding an avatar suggestion close to what you would have made yourself could truely also be more engaging to people picking up your game - who, as I say, will in a majority not be a white male for a lot of games (because they are female or of other ethnicity).

 

[Lux R7]

dragon's dogma has an amazing CC with a ton of options.

 

[Durante]

It would be interesting then to see a RPG in which race and culture are not one and the same, where for example the player would first choose the culture, to which abilities and the like are linked, and afterwards the race and ethnicity.

 

[Wulfram]

RPG have a very high female player base, so according to your logic, the standard Dragon Age avatar should probably be female for example.

About a third of DAI PCs were female. About the same amount as were elves.

And I believe that game has a random "default" gender.

 

[Slayven]

I usually just choose the beastman/robot/etc. route with character creators that lack good options. Interesting to see this studied in tech terms.

Reminds me how the Red Guard have been gutted in every new Elder Scroll game.

Fallout 4 create a character is the first one that I used that half way gets it.

I think it is reflection that the industry isn't that diverse, I mean you can create a awesome space alien, but not normal looking black, or Hispanic person?

 

[A Link to the Past]

Wow! When I was a kid the only color they had was chinese.

...

I just got it, this is a racist joke

 

[VectMachine]

On one hand, adding more options in Character Creator is never a bad thing. On the other hand, I'm the kind of weirdo who if given the option to make a human or a non-human, always chooses the latter and will simply make a pissed-off looking female with a cool haircut. Maybe I'm weird, but I've never really understood the idea of making yourself in the game. That just sounds boring especially when you've got a bunch of other options and I've never consider myself someone that I want to recreate faithfully since I myself am a boring dude.

If I do have to make a human, I still follow the same principle (angriest-looking expression, cool haircut) and I just leave the skintone up to whether or not I think a brown girl or a pale girl looks better at the moment.

 

[Drinkel]

Thank you for this!

 

[Sou Da]

90% sure that all dark skinned humans in that game are culturally Vailianan. You can create a character that's grew up somewhere else but I don't really think that's any different than any other RPG that starts you out in a different country.

 

[Lime]

Probably because the majority of players are white males.

It's not an excuse, it's catering to your main market.

This is for you. (it's also an enjoyable talk with Anthony Burch being pretty entertaining)

I love diversity in character creators, if only because I love playing as women, but with a certain rather thick body type and great looking short hair. Saints Row 4 was great for this, my character has a fantastic pompadour haircut.

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but this isn't only great for people who want to represent themselves in games, but also for these who prefer playing as someone else entirely and like having options. I'm a white guy and almost exclusively play as women if I get the chance.

Part 3 of the article looks into Body Types in character creators for a brief bit if you're interested.

This is a very interesting post overall Lime but I'd like to chip in a response on this point made in the article. Oddly enough I am playing such an RPG right now (Pillars of Eternity) that has such a 'culture' system to stats. There are multiple races in the game that give a minor bonus (Elves get +1 dex, Humans +1 resolve, etc) but also what culture/nationality you hail from gives you an even larger stat bonus and is often mentioned either by you or other characters as a feature that identifies you. An interesting point I thought here was that it does not actually restrict what race/class you are to a specific area. Even though people from "The White That Wends" are pretty much exclusively said to be dwarves and pale elves, you can be any race and still from that area giving you a real flexibility in how you want to play your character.

Yeah one of the comments in the first part also mentions PoE. It's a pretty commendable way of addressing it, as far as I can recall.

 

[Walpurgis]

Ah yes, the "there's few female leads because women don't play games" argument, now for race.

It's Kenshin. He's known for some....interesting view points so it's unsurprising to see him defending this.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Probably because the majority of players are white males.

Hispanics are the fastest-growing population of gamers in the US. The conceit you put forth fails if we don't observe a comparative growth of Hispanic representation.

 

[Raist]

You have findings that counter theirs, or is this just your gut

Have you ever followed a GAF thread about games with fairly advanced custom character creation tools? Loads of people go for the opposite gender, ridiculously ugly characters, celebrity lookalikes etc. I don't think the "majority" goes for trying to put themselves into the game.
And I really doubt it severely impacts their enjoyment of the game. Otherwise games without character creation tools would be fucked.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Have you ever followed a GAF thread about games with fairly advanced custom character creation tools? Loads of people go for the opposite gender, ridiculously ugly characters, celebrity lookalikes etc. I don't think the "majority" goes for trying to put themselves into the game.
And I really doubt it severely impacts their enjoyment of the game. Otherwise games without character creation tools would be fucked.

So your gut then

 

[Walpurgis]

Have you ever followed a GAF thread about games with fairly advanced custom character creation tools? Loads of people go for the opposite gender, ridiculously ugly characters, celebrity lookalikes etc. I don't think the "majority" goes for trying to put themselves into the game.
And I really doubt it severely impacts their enjoyment of the game. Otherwise games without character creation tools would be fucked.

Games without character creation tools make up for it with well written, defined protagonists like Geralt, Joel and Batman.

A game that has none of that, like World of Warcraft, and offers me character creation tools instead, better have tools that allow me to have a character with my skin colour. If not, my enjoyment is not only impacted, but my perception of the developers is as well.

 

[Raist]

So your gut then

There's plenty of these threads on GAF. Just go and check them.

Games without character creation tools make up for it with well written, defined protagonists like Geralt, Joel and Batman.

A game that has none of that, like World of Warcraft, and offers me character creation tools instead, better have tools that allow me to have a character with my skin colour. If not, my enjoyment is not only impacted, but my perception of the developers is as well.

I'm not saying it's not important, or not good to have varied options.
I just disagree with the conclusions of their "findings", especially after having read the actual thesis.

 

[Wulfram]

There's plenty of these threads on GAF. Just go and check them.

Those are hardly going to be representative though. They're characters people chose to show off.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Interesting stuff. I wish they had examined more character creators than the sampled games, though. Not a single Japanese game in their examples?

The Charr are really well done in terms of diversity too. Most developers approach the female variation of their "beast" race in one of two ways; a human female body with a wolf mask or putting a pair of human D-cups on a wolf / cat person.

Fuck, I hate that. I once saw a funny cartoon that parodied this stereotype, but I can't find it anymore. Too bad.

As a white person with long hair down to my mid-back, a mustache, and a long goatee, I too understand the struggle. I'll let my combination of facial hair slide, but I can't stand when there are no long hair options for men.

Play Dragon's Dogma

But yes I agree, if I make a male character there better be long hair options.

Bloodborne was hilarious in that if there was an option for anything other than white, they hid that very well

I disagree. Look at this thread for great examples of non-white hunters. Notable ones:

That said it's probably true that the hair options are limited. I'm a bit more forgiving when it comes to that because:
- I can't ever find my hair style myself (the above pics of Dragon's Dogma with the super-long hair is the closest I ever found);
- hair is difficult to render, and for longer hair, that means more physics required;
- the more hairstyles you have, the harder it is to avoid issues like clipping, though of course I'd rather have more varied hairstyles with clipping issues than have fewer choices, but some might disagree, I guess.

Dragon's Dogma was pretty bad in terms of hair

Really? I thought there was a wealth of options, better than most RPGs. Unless you meant for hair styles for PoC, in which case, that might be true...

Probably because the majority of players are white males.

That is actually not true.

 

[Raist]

Those are hardly going to be representative though. They're characters people chose to show off.

I think it's a bit more representative of what people enjoy doing with character creation tools than a study based on 11 interviews and a bizarre choice of games (that barely match the ones cited by their own interviewees).

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I think it's a bit more representative than a study based on 11 interviews and a bizarre choice of games (that barely match the ones cited by their own interviewees).

I don't know that it matters if people make characters different than themselves, or try to remake themselves. The options for variety should be there as much as possible. In Bloodborne I made 6 characters all of which are varied, and I wouldn't have enjoyed it as much if I couldn't do that.

 

[SixMachine]

I think many character creators have been limited because they basically work by mixing a bunch of presets with some sliders for adjustment. I wonder if any games will try to copy something like the Black Desert character creator from now on. It's absolutely extensive. The closed beta just started but you can try the character creator yourself for free (Link below). A lot of gaffers seemed to have fun recreating people.

https://www.blackdesertonline.com/news/view/40

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1172715&highlight=black+desert+character+creator

 

[Famassu]

Hair is shit either way, no matter what. It seems to pretty much be mandatory for games to have maybe 2-3 good hair styles at most and then rest are fffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugly.

But going for more inclusive race & ethnicity options is good, of course.