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'Stop Giving Evil Characters Brown Skin'

Lime

Member
I actually never thought about James Earl Jones and Darth Vader and the whole Anakin stuff, so this thread was enlightening, despite the dismissals by other posters.

Why do people keep using the word minority when referring to people of color? Are you not aware that people of color are actually the vast majority on the planet?

1. minority is not necessarily in relation to volume or amount, but to power hierarchy.
2. white people rule the world and dominate/oppress 'minorities', therefore poc are considered to be a minority
3. much of the money and power are located in majority white countries like Europe and Canada and to some extent the US
 

Platy

Member
Why do people keep using the word minority when referring to people of color? Are you not aware that people of color are actually the vast majority on the planet?

Minority is not LITERALLY a minority.

Actually most people who are the minority are majority in terms of amount of people.

White people, men, rich people .. those are the ones in power and favored by the system. The world actually has slightly more women, way more non white people and a MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCH more poor people than rich ones.
 
they're literally called a race of "thieves".

So? A thief character doesn't mean a shady one or anything negative as it would in real life, there's plenty of admirable thieves in fiction. A thief in a work of fiction is above all else a rebel and we fucking love rebels in our stories. I think the Gerudo were portrayed in a positive light, they're a proud and powerful people. They were awesome in OoT and even more so in BOTW.
 

NewGame

Banned
This thread should just be an exhaustive list of character portraits and we can tally up the BLACK SKIN VS WHITE SKIN amounts for a definitive, mathematical absolute answer.

And TV trope articles.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Again, just gonna say that the brown color is more due to sprites, and as we see in later official materials, there's no skin color change.

And for Violent Ken, it's just the artist being terrible (see his official art for Mai in SvC Chaos) and his canon look is more subdued, messy hair Ken than afro.

This isn't really a problem with modern technology, as people pointed out Tekken, which in fact uses models.
 

Astral Dog

Member
they're literally called a race of "thieves".

shit, even BoTW Gerudo not-so-subtly calls out Ganon for contributing to their previously poor reputation
And that makes them evil? Even OoT stated it was mostly the influence of a few rotten apples inside their community Four Sword Adventures addressed this
 
No I do not, being a minority myself I have never played a game and been offended because of the color of the pixels. You know why? Cause I'm an adult and I understand This is just a game. I'm sorry I might just be old fashioned and i don't get easily offended but This is a really sad and pathetic thing to be up in arms over. Just play the game.
There are so many things to unpack here
 
this might be one of the greatest post in GAF history

lIER1ax.gif



just like this gif, goddamn
 

akira28

Member
The greatest part is Anakin sitting there in his huge Imperial healing pod, tweaking the "sexy, scary black voice modulator" in his helmet every night before bed.
"Testing...Testing..I am Lord Vaa-derrr. Vaaa-der. Lord Vader. So Princess do you have any secrets you would like to divulge?"
 

GametimeUK

Member
It annoys me that he asks if changing Ryu's skin tone was THE ONLY way to show he was evil. He then later suggests that you should give characters red eyes or a creepy smile to show they are evil. Erm... Evil Ryu also has red eyes and a creepy smile. So no, the skin wasn't "the only" at all. They also did what he suggested.

On top of that I think it is insensitive of him to suggest people with deformed eyes and smiles are evil. I know a girl with crazy eyes and she is lovely.
 

Soodanim

Member
I've read a few pages of this thread and seen some interesting points, but I have had a realisation that has rocked me to my core:

Evil Ryu isn't grey?

I could have sworn his skin was greyed slightly to match his gi.
 

ffvorax

Member
That's not a rule, but Dark in general is about bad... just because of Darkness, not much about people skins colour... so a bad guy it's unusual to see him in pink armour for example... it's like when RE5 was accoused of racism because of black zombies... and it was set in AFRICA... :\

Anyway there are a lot of bad guys not dark skinned

FFVI -> Kefka is pale white
FFIX -> Kuja is white
MGSRising final boss is white
FFVIII artemisia is white
Resident Evil -> Wesker is an icon of evil, and he is white
Uncharted bad guys are all white


I can go on with many other big brands... I think there is a lot of mix, if you really look around...
 

Van Bur3n

Member
Jesus, we're getting to the point of questioning villains wearing something that is the literal color black. Guys, its black. Darkness. Bad(ass). Intimidating.

Fucking hell.
 
Jesus, we're getting to the point of questioning villains wearing something that is the literal color black. Guys, its black. Darkness. Bad(ass). Intimidating.

Fucking hell.
Strawman. Nobody's saying this. Try again.

It's not about clothes in any way. Clothes are fine. It's about evil counterparts of characters not only wearing black clothes but also having darker skin-tones to show that they're evil. Having black clothes or whatever is fine. That's why characters like say Dark Pit isn't a problem. On the other other hand, stuff like Evil Ryu/Violent Ken or Cia from Hyrule Warriors is a lot more sus because a person changing between good and evil shouldn't be affecting their ski-tone, a literal part of their body.

For a good way of avoiding this, see stuff like the Shadow counterparts of the main cast in Persona 4 Arena.
 

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
The thing is, if brown skinned characters are not made to be the bad guys, then they might as well disappear entirely since nobody is going to make them the good guys either :/
 

Mozendo

Member
Anyway there are a lot of bad guys not dark skinned
Did you read previous posts in the thread because this has been explained multiple times.

There are allowed to be dark skinned villains, no one is saying other wise but why is it acceptable for a character's skin to turn dark to show that they're evil in this day in age? As mentioned Cia is a good example of this. Maybe T-Elos from Xenosaga Ep.3 is another good example, but I've never played the game so I can't really say, that and Xeno series has never had issues having dark skinned characters as heroes/heroines, but from what I've seen T-Elos has been shown to be Kos-Mos dark counterpart.

If you're using light skinned characters to use a counter-argument in this thread you're completely missing the point. Dark skinned characters don't even come close to light skinned characters when it comes to being represented in video games which is why this is a big deal to some (and sadly, just to some).
 
That's not a rule, but Dark in general is about bad... just because of Darkness, not much about people skins colour... so a bad guy it's unusual to see him in pink armour for example... it's like when RE5 was accoused of racism because of black zombies... and it was set in AFRICA... :
No genius, RE5 received racist accusations because it used imagery of a white guy against hordes of monstrous black men. It was completely tone deaf and only something a culturally ignorant company would do. This was before Sheva and Josh were revealed but even after they did that, RE5 laters pulls this stupid shit in the main game

zbz4QLK.jpg
 

nel e nel

Member
I actually never thought about James Earl Jones and Darth Vader and the whole Anakin stuff, so this thread was enlightening, despite the dismissals by other posters.



1. minority is not necessarily in relation to volume or amount, but to power hierarchy.
2. white people rule the world and dominate/oppress 'minorities', therefore poc are considered to be a minority
3. much of the money and power are located in majority white countries like Europe and Canada and to some extent the US

"Some extent" meaning the world's largest economy, roughly 25% of global GDP. Also Europe is a continent.
 

nel e nel

Member
This thread should just be an exhaustive list of character portraits and we can tally up the BLACK SKIN VS WHITE SKIN amounts for a definitive, mathematical absolute answer.

And TV trope articles.

Well, according to this thread, the only games that exist are Street Fighter, Zelda and Resident Evil 5.
 

LordKasual

Banned
On the front lines of the racial war, we really, really need to lighten Evil Ryu's skin tone because it's highly, highly problematic.

As a black person I get why it bothers some people. At the same time it's at the bottom of things to give a fuck about. What's more pressing is that Nintendo does not find it ok to allow you to pick your skin tone in Animal Crossong because they view white as the default. Even then, it's not worth truly getting mad about beyond annoyance.

This is why people like this are called SJWs. It's not that social justice is bad. It's that they try to make everything about their social justice. The really big irony here is that kids in Flint are dying of lead poisoning and here we are talking about Evil Ryu and Violent Ken's skin colors. SJWs betray their own arguments. They talk of things like privelage but lack the self awareness to realize many of their pet issues - like this one - operate on said privilege. By concentrating on something so not noteworthy that actually affects living, breathing people, they take jabs at larger society they disagree, exposing their own privilege. Bet you 100 bucks the person who made this is living comfortable. Yeah, they may have had the racist encounter or two, but are they living well? Probably. How can you tell? Because they base their arguments of social justice based around video game characters made and designed in a foreign land across the sea rather than pushing for voting locally, donating to their HBCU, or volunteering.

They don't push for action that will result in any real lasting change. They just want their video game characters to stop offending them so much.

Prime example as to why SJWs and by larger extent our generation, are seen as a damn joke while not realizing their own argument is steeped in privelage.

i'm pretty sure he got banned for this post, but there is some real truth in here.

I always say that people on this forum love arguing racial politics, but for all the passion that's present in these topics, i can't help but feel like there's a deep level of disconnect somewhere...a lack of context, or maybe perspective? And i think that is highlighted best in threads like these. This thread is highlighting a real issue....but people are arguing off such extreme criteria that the majority of the thread has little to do with the actual issue, and more to do with people desperately trying to find (or rather forcibly establish) a common ground on what even constitutes a reasonable example.

Like, and then some of the examples are just absurd, like on this very page people are talking about Darth Vader. How??? I'm reminded of the feeling I get when I hear a child argue attempt to argue a political or religious point. All learned definitions and responses, no actual wisdom. And thats what alot of these threads really come down to, the fundamental difference between knowledge and wisdom.

And you know what, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with just talking about issues. But here's where this particular mindset really starts fucking with me:

The thing is, if brown skinned characters are not made to be the bad guys, then they might as well disappear entirely since nobody is going to make them the good guys either :/

....WHAT

Which is a damn shame.

Are you kidding me? This exchange is more infuriating than anything anyone else has posted in this thread. Then why the fuck are we arguing among eachother about it?

This is why I can't stand "conversation" threads that aren't good for anything more than just complaining about shit. Complain complain complain complain complain. No action. Making a video, or publicly speaking, or donating, those are actions. Making threads that give praise to people who are doing a good job, that's action -- it's called positive feedback, that actually feeds energy into the system. But complaining about shit is not action, it's just complaining. It has never been anything more than that. Just a way to feel good about your thoughts without having to actually do anything.


Cindi probably could have been more tactful without seemingly attacking the premise of the thread, like I probably shouldn't have even brought this peeve of mine up. But nonetheless, I sympathize with his frustration, because I know for a fact many people think that they're actually contributing by endlessly complaining about things. But in reality....highly vocal yet petty arguments don't really do much but make us all of look stupid, and flood the actual debate space with endless supplies of ammo for the opposing side to dismiss it as rambling. Which, to be honest, they'd probably try to do anyway, but why make it easier.
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Yep. Article from the same site essentially says that Twintelle pushes the stereotypical notion that all black hair is weaponized.

Guess he has to go too now.

This one is harder to pin down because attacking with hair trope is used in anime quite a bit regardless of skin color.

Anime can be rather absurd with hair, especially twin drill. Twintelle's hair style is even drill like which only further adds to the twin drill tropes and jokes you see from plenty of characters, even Teto Kasane from UTAUloid

Twin drill hair is a pretty popular thing ξ(✿ >◡❛)ξ▄︻▇▇〓〓
 
Yep. Article from the same site essentially says that Twintelle pushes the stereotypical notion that all black hair is weaponized.

Guess he has to go too now.

Nah, I read this and thought it was a serious case of her projecting grievances onto a character that doesn't perpetuate them in any way. There have been TONS of characters who use hair as a weapon, across various mediums and game genres. Hell, we have a series starring a white character that does so (Bayonetta). Second Twintelle isn't even the only character that doesn't use her arms, so she's not even unique in that regard (Mechanica is also a normal person)
 

nel e nel

Member
This one is harder to pin down because attacking with hair trope is used in anime quite a bit regardless of skin color.

Anime can be rather absurd with hair, especially twin drill. Twintelle's hair style is even drill like which only further adds to the twin drill tropes and jokes you see from plenty of characters, even Teto Kasane from UTAUloid

Twin drill hair is a pretty popular thing ξ(✿ >◡❛)ξ▄︻▇▇〓〓

Nah, I read this and thought it was a serious case of her projecting grievances onto a character that doesn't perpetuate them in any way. There have been TONS of characters who use hair as a weapon, across various mediums and game genres. Hell, we have a series starring a white character that does so (Bayonetta). Second Twintelle isn't even the only character that doesn't use her arms, so she's not even unique in that regard (Mechanica is also a normal person)

Did either of you read past the first paragraph? Because hair attack tropes is not what the article is about.

Twintelle's hair may seem trivial to folks who don't have to deal with films, TV shows and ads where people who look like them aren't depicted. To them, it might even seem like I'm reaching for something to complain about. But that's a side effect of not seeing yourself represented often or well in something you love.
 

Kinyou

Member
Are people now really arguing that Darth Vader is part of this trope?

Is Dark Samus also back on the menu?

Did either of you read past the first paragraph? Because hair attack tropes is not what the article is about.
Huh? That part of the article seems only to say that you wont understand/notice it unless you're a POC. The article is most definitely about the hair.
 
Did either of you read past the first paragraph? Because hair attack tropes is not what the article is about.

Yeah, it wasn't a long read. I read the whole thing. Just because someone posts something doesn't mean I'm required to agree with their argument, and I don't. Talk about the problem of black hair options in games, but it literally has nothing to do with Twintelle and her "weaponized hair".
1. ARMS doesn't off customization, so there is no "lack" of relative customization options compared to other races, and
2. "Weaponized hair" is a trope that's been seen numerous times before, and seldom is it for a black character

Again, this is the author trying to make a larger point, built on top of a complaint that makes little to no sense, in the context of ARMS and Twintelle
 
Sorry for the bump, but I just remembered something as to why this is a problem that needs addressing. I posted this story a while back in OT.

I was visiting my mom and little brother in New Zealand. My brother was in the equivalent of Junior High I believe. I had brought over my Wii from the States, and my brother invited a bunch of his school friends over.

We're playing SSB Brawl and one of the boys selected Link and chose his Dark Link palette and then said, all excitedly, "WHOA LOOK GUYS! I GET TO PLAY AS A N****R!"

I was completely stunned and flabbergasted and had no idea what to say. I went "WHOAAAA DUUUUDE!" but he ignored me. I didn't get the impression he was a bad kid or anything, but he seemed completely detached.
 
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