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'Stop Giving Evil Characters Brown Skin'
- Thread starter Shaanyboi
- Start date
LordKasual
Banned
He did Pokemon, so i'll just do Final Fantasy.
FF7 - Barrett
FF7- Rude
FF8 - Kiros
:origin()/pre00/d8eb/th/pre/i/2011/327/c/d/reddas__again__by_facelesswisper-d4h2b5h.png)
FF12 - Reddas
fF13 - Sazh
FF15 - Weskham
FF14 - Raubahn
(And a ton of other NPCs in XIV of varied importance)
* Rude/Reno from FF7 aren't really good or a bad guys....but future appearances seem to treat them like comic relief so i'll lump him in anyway
Tidus' skin color seems to be ambigious between appearances, but a few of the FFX characters seemd decidedly more dark than your usual brand of MCs, more "islander" colored.
Dunno if that counts for you.
Jecht is obviously played as an antagonist, but the game made it very clear that he wasn't a "bad guy". Bad parenting aside, anyway lol.
The more hilarious thing would be to do this same list, except just post images of all the villains instead
FF6- Pale white skinned clown
FF7- Pale white skin, long white hair
FF8- White skin...with shit all over face
FF9- Pale white skin, long purple/red hair
FF10- White skin, alot of blue ""hair""
FF12- White skin, jet black hair
FF13- A clock
FF14 ARR - The Garleans are all pale white with a third white eye on their forehead and long white hair
FF14 Heavensward - An old white guy in a pope outfit
I have a friend with an albino child whose wife is an activist against the portrayal of albinos as villains in fiction. She opposes things like the White Witch in the Narnia books, Voldemort, the villain in Darren Shan's books (don't know name) and lots more. You can read about this stereotype here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albinism_in_popular_culture
Not really going to argue a point (and I agree that "dark" villains are at least problematic) but an interesting that the other way is an issue also.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albinism_in_popular_culture
Not really going to argue a point (and I agree that "dark" villains are at least problematic) but an interesting that the other way is an issue also.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Well for the OP it's talking about brown skin and race. I don't feel Dark Link quite fits here because it's a shadow with no defining features and more representative of an actual shadow, rather than representative of a black person.
Well in that sense, my collection (bof both, 200 console games and about 200 handheld games) has not a single game where this trope is applied, except for maybe Sonic Adventure 2 with Shadow (though he is not human and not actually evil, but the latter thing is of course a spoiler). My list was a reply to a bit broader statement though.
seriously?
The only bad gym leader i can think of is that team rocket leader.
Man Called Aerodynamics
Member
I just watched How to Train Your Dragon 2 yesterday... little awkward that the one dark skinned character in the series is the villain.
xxMaximusxx
Banned
Stop giving evil characters big muscles
Eyepatches are cool tho
Is that picture still not of a white girl? Was Tetra not a white girl with a tan? Are there not white people with different pigmentation to their skin?
Glitter and Gold
Banned
I agree I'm just trying to get the other side to at least meet me halfway on this
Seriously....lmao I don't know what games you play but it sounds the reason they did that was to reflect light (good) vs darkness(bad) and not a racial thing like you are making it out to be. This is where we at people 2017 it's not enough to just play the game. Now we have to look at something to get triggered.
Primethius
Banned
Yes, that's what this debate is about. Because when people talk about racism, they're actually talking about dark rooms.
Glitter and Gold
Banned
We know the reason that it's being done.
The criticism is at the way it's being done. Which is darkening skin tone like it's an accessory or clothing. All people are suggesting is that in the future, devs find a better way to convey that contrast.
No one here is getting "triggered". The strongest reactions and longest posts seem to consistently be from the people who think it's not a problem. lol
Uhm, this was discussed in this thread, more or less.
then how will we know that they're intelligent?
Glitter and Gold
Banned
or are rich and command the most authority on the planet?? lol
There are better ways to handle that though without changing the color of the characters skin.
Want an evil mirror version of the character? Change what the character wears so they look more menacing and evil. Change their hair style or even dye it black or red. Make them look more sickly or disturbed. Change their eye color. Or all of the above. There are plenty of ways to handle it.
Or even the age old classic, the goatee.
Hmm, I may not find the right words to put this into English, but isn't is also a problem that we as a race automatically think *insert color* skin -> evil with characters in games instead of ignoring the skin color and observe the behavior etc.?
In my theory, even if all the evil characters in the games have darker skin, it is we as a race who think brown/darker tone -> evil instead of evil motives -> evil etc.
In my theory, even if all the evil characters in the games have darker skin, it is we as a race who think brown/darker tone -> evil instead of evil motives -> evil etc.
ScientificPizza
Banned
Yeah *thats* what people are scared of
shiftplusone
Member
I wonder if people who make awful points like this will have kids some day. Imagine those kids coming to them asking where do babies come from and the parents are just screaming and writing on the walls in their own feces.
Well for the OP it's talking about brown skin and race. I don't feel Dark Link quite fits here because it's a shadow with no defining features and more representative of an actual shadow, rather than representative of a black person.
That black motherfucker!
this is racist towards people with beards
just because someone has a beard doesnt make them bad
No, we're talking about skin pigmentation. Complexion. Race. Design. Not the lack of a light source.
Black Goku in Dragon Ball Super is a good recent example of an evil mirror copy of Goku that doesn't turn to dark skin as an accessory. He just wears all black and is evil.
You can be as simple or as complex as you want to be with dark versus light theme without skin having to be an accessory to it.
You can be as simple or as complex as you want to be with dark versus light theme without skin having to be an accessory to it.
xxMaximusxx
Banned
> We need more diversity in games
> Stop making villains diverse!
> Stop making villains diverse!
sorry nanshrew, goku black has a darker tone of skin
He does? that can't be right D: I don't remember him being darker.
Why? It is a good example.
You're intentionally being obtuse. All of the examples he gave were villains that were either denoted as villains by being darker versions of themselves or them being the only dark character in the story.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Pls stop
The problem with the OP's premise is that he seem to be very selective in his examples. It appears that he mostly has issue with generally Japanese-made games while completely ignoring Western-made games. I would argue that Japanese games, for the most part, use the dichotomy of black and white as symbolism and metaphor, and that they are aim toward a younger audience where complexity and nuances may be lost if more complex forms of representations were used. Now some Western games on the other hand outright skip the wink and nod innuendos and overtly portray minorities in a very negative light. Case in point, Grand Theft Auto V. Just in the introduction we see extremely negative portrayals of African American characters, yet I have not seen any indignation or outcry from critics or consumers on this. In fact, going by the game's sales number, 70million copies sold, I could even argue mainstream gaming accept the negative portrayal as normal.
It is quite disingenuous to single out niche games as having nefarious messaging when one of the biggest games does it so blatantly.
It is quite disingenuous to single out niche games as having nefarious messaging when one of the biggest games does it so blatantly.
i mean, is not as blatant as Cya and Lana, but yes, he is a bit more darker than regular Goku
https://dragonball-super.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Dragon-ball-super-black-goku-vs-goku.jpg
when he is rose forme he does look like goku tho
Japan also has seriously gross views of black people. So maybe making villains dark and good people light isn't helping.
When a "valid" method to show a character as being more untrustworthy, sinister, evil etc. is to darken their complexion, that's a problem. Wardrobe is wardrobe. Clothing choices will always be a simple way of understanding mood. This thread isn't about getting angry at the color wheel.
But the subconscious connections (especially among kids and evidenced among kids) that become made by changing the skin tone of characters in such a way are that the darker-skinned individuals are more clearly the villains compared to their lighter counterparts. When in 2008, Republicans tried to make Obama look more unappealing by using images that made him look darker? What does that say about their desired effect? And the sad part is that that shit probably worked for some people. Not everyone, and maybe not even on a conscious level. But because people are conditioned into these expectations.
Hell, we could easily begin talking about beauty standards among POC and how black or brown women with darker complexions are consistently treated as less attractive or desirable than those of the same ethnicity but with lighter skin.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
So it's OP's fault that people don't read/watch the content they talk about? Yeah, no.
Totally equivalent to making them dark-skinned. Yeah.... nice pair of strawmen here.
That's closer, at least. I don't know if British people get annoyed at being a stereotype for villains, I don't think they do generally, but if they did I could understand why.
i mean, at the end, i think is more of an easy differentation than racism, but like you said, developers and creators need to find better ways to show this
Huge Succeeded
Banned
yeah that shit really stood out for me in FE: Awakening when my white-ass little boy MC met his evil father who is literally Jafar
Correct me if I'm wrong but Japan's depiction of people with dark skin as villains like Ganon, or Validar seem like they use people of South Asian or middle-eastern descent as bad guys.
ScientificPizza
Banned
That's not what is being said here even remotely
Huge Succeeded
Banned
I'll tell ya what, these threads are really good for filling out your ignore list with complete idiots.
Have you considered why that may be the case? How a subconscious link like that gets embedded?
Perhaps it's due to the very things we're discussing in this very thread! If all the evil characters in game were dark skinned, then no shit we as a human race are going to associate a darker tone with evil... continuing to reinforce that just means it'll still be the case hundreds of years from now.
Ganondorf isn't black?
"greentexting" off *chan. smh
Even worse is using it to make a stupidass strawman point.
Drillary Clinton
Banned
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