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[SilverArrow20XX]

I always just took the TWW Zelda example as taking away her roughness. She lost her tan. She doubtlessly also lost all her calluses. It's not a race thing. It's a standard of beauty thing, which is its own problem. Feminine princesses aren't supposed to look like they've been outside doing manual labor their whole life, so she was changed to look like she would if she grew up like a princess.

Darker skin is also attributed to masculinity and aggression. More aggressive characters are often designed with darker skin tone, which includes a lot of villains.

 

[Skinpop]

Dark = evil is dumb as fuck, including the concept of light vs dark.

this is so asinine.

 

[Glitter and Gold]

I always just took the TWW Zelda example as taking away her roughness. She lost her tan. She doubtlessly also lost all her calluses. It's not a race thing. It's a standard of beauty thing, which is its own problem. Feminine princesses aren't supposed to look like they've been outside doing manual labor their whole life, so she was changed to look like she would if she grew up like a princess.

Darker skin is also attributed to masculinity and aggression. More aggressive characters are often designed with darker skin tone, which includes a lot of villains.

I feel people are really tripping over themselves in this thread confusing colorism with racism. because what you're describing here is colorism, and still pretty bad, but it seems like you're presenting this as proof against the main point of the video.

The two absolutely intersect, but they aren't the same thing. What's being addressed here is colorism.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I get it if the only character in your game that's dark skinned is the villain, but shouldn't representation include all colors and orientations/genders? For villains, heroes and side characters?

As a person of color I find this a bit dumb and also very patronizing. I don't want my villains white washed. I like a brown bad ass character regardless of what side they're on. What we should be pushing for are more diverse main casts, so we don't blink at a villain's skin color (which I feel a lot of people already manage to do instead scrimmaging for anything that is potentially problematic.) A wiping all out solution wouldn't solve anything and would actually be more regressive.

WATCH THE VIDEO

This isn't about having PoC villains and antagonists

It's about literally darkening characters' skin to show them as evil

Sigh...

Why all the discussion about Tetra? She's one of the heroes. Hell, people like her more than the transformed Zelda.

Darker skin = pirate
Lighter skin = fair, pure princess

It'd be fine if it had just been her getting a tan while being a sailor, but she magically reverts to being lighter-skinned after revealing she's the princess? C'mon, that's at least weird... and perpetuates the whole fair skin = purity notion, which is certainly off-putting

 

[The Bookerman]

Jesus, nobody is asking that.

The video is about how media continually demonizes darker complexions. Not even just by different races, but it uses that shorthand to instill the notion that "lighter skin=good, darker skin=bad".

I understand what he's trying to say: but he's wrong. He's generalizing out of a few exemples.

He's also taking all the context out of those characters.

in SF, they are simply tying those versions of Ryu and Ken to Akuma.

 

[kadotsu]

My feeling is that there aren't enough PoC characters that elicit feelings of affection, camaraderie or acceptance from the player. The emphasis is on the plural. We have games like RE5 that hide their not so latent xenophobia behind a token character. BotW and the Gerudo secret village is a good example how to do it right. We have an almost monoculture of either evil or token virtuous characters.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that the light vs dark(ness) dichotomy is coded racism. Most of these story archetypes go back to the Book of the Dead. It would be interesting to look into ancient texts/stories of African religions to see their representation of evil.

 

[boujeejamboree]

Money never bought an ounce of time.

 

[ScientificPizza]

It *shouldn't* be surprising to me that there are so many people in this thread being like "black is a symbol of evil get over it" but it still sucks. Be better

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Couldn't agree more. This thread is insane.

....

WATCH THE VIDEO

This isn't about having PoC villains and antagonists

It's about literally darkening characters' skin to show them as evil

Sigh...

.

(Am I wasting my time, GAF?)

 

[Skyzard]

this is so asinine.

It's the most boring, simple-minded trope in the world.

 

[ScientificPizza]

(Am I wasting my time, GAF?)

Spoiler

yes

 

[CryptiK]

This is about skin tones, not a lack of visibility.

Dark = evil is dumb as fuck, including the concept of light vs dark.


--I actually returned Final Fantasy III because of how much it leaned on that. It's a different thing from skin colour but still feels linked to me.

Dark vs Light stems from Day vs Night, its not stupid at all. Night has always been something that is thought to have been more dangerous than Night. Day has more light. Super simple dude and not dumb as fuck at all. Yes its a trope but its ingrained in some cultures.

....

.

(Am I wasting my time, GAF?)

The OP set himself up for this knowing perfectly well what would happen with that shitty thread title.

 

[ScientificPizza]

Dark vs Light stems from Day vs Night, its not stupid at all. Night has always been something that is thought to have been more dangerous than Night. Day has more light. Super simple dude and not dumb as fuck at all. Yes its a trope but its ingrained in some cultures.

Something can be both simple and dumb. I don't see why you think those two things are mutually exclusive

The OP set himself up for this knowing perfectly well what would happen with that shitty thread title.

The thread title is just the title of the video

 

[Kinyou]

Darker skin = pirate
Lighter skin = fair, pure princess

It'd be fine if it had just been her getting a tan while being a sailor, but she magically reverts to being lighter-skinned after revealing she's the princess? C'mon, that's at least weird... and perpetuates the whole fair skin = purity notion, which is certainly off-putting

People call her a pirate as if that actually means something. She's an even more romanticized version of a pirate than Jack Sparrow. I mean isn't it actually a more positive portrayal of darker skin that she had a more active role when she had the tan?
You can read more into it, but in the context of the thread it doesn't make much sense to me to harp on that particular example.

 

[CryptiK]

Something can be both simple and dumb. I don't see why you think those two things are mutually exclusive



The thread title is just the title of the video

I don't think its dumb at all. It depends entirely on the context and how its applied. Everything can be dumb if you present it incorrectly.

As for the thread title my bad, I didn't see the title of the vid just listened to the audio.

 

[V_Arnold]

Couldn't agree more. This thread is insane.

Yes, this thread insane, but the other way around.

 

[WrenchNinja]

....

.

(Am I wasting my time, GAF?)

Gaming side is perpetually stuck on a "Not my video games" defense when ever social criticism is involved. A hint of it, and they lash out because it's inconceivable to show even a little bit of empathy.

It's not a waste of time since someone reading this thread might change their viewpoint.

 

[Boss Doggie]

A good enough reason to get rid of the dumb light vs dark trope.

Why the hell does white have to represent good and black represent bad? where did that start? Why do we have to stick to it?

It's a ridiculously stupid convention that has a bunch of shitty connotation. there's literally no reason to stick to it beyond "its it's just how it is" which is pretty creatively vapid.

human civilization survived by staying away from darkness of the night and keeping themselves brightened by the light of the fires, shadows being equivalent to darkness as they roam the frey, etc.

It's the most boring, simple-minded trope in the world.

good thing there are plenty of times this trope is played around

hell nowadays it's not light vs dark but extremes vs moderation, where both extremes of light and dark are considered evil

 

[Chitown B]

Nintendo is the worst about this.

Dark Link? Dark Samus? Dark Pit?

Seriously?

uh, blame religion and fables, not racism. It's not "african link" it's lack of light link. light vs. dark. not white vs. black.

 

[PtM]

Darker skin is also attributed to masculinity and aggression. More aggressive characters are often designed with darker skin tone, which includes a lot of villains.

Exoticism, more like.

in SF, they are simply tying those versions of Ryu and Ken to Akuma.

Good old Akuma.

 

[ahoyhoy]

I'd like to also add stop making evil characters flamboyant.

Please don't. Flamboyant characters are awesome so long as they don't overextended to crazy stereotypical.

 

[Kwame120]

I feel people are really tripping over themselves in this thread confusing colorism with racism. because what you're describing here is colorism, and still pretty bad, but it seems like you're presenting this as proof against the main point of the video.

The two absolutely intersect, but they aren't the same thing. What's being addressed here is colorism.

In a globalised world, the distinction thins. Colourism leads to racism and racism leads to colourism, so at the end of the day we shouldn't be splitting hairs over specifically what kind of discrimination it is, but admitting that it's a problem which needs to be solved.

 

[half a moon]

Nm

 

[Ivan 3414]

wow i wish we could all be above it like the utopias y'all hail from #staywoke

Who knew the rest of the world was post-racial all along?

 

[N.Grim]

WATCH THE VIDEO

This isn't about having PoC villains and antagonists

It's about literally darkening characters' skin to show them as evil

Sigh...


Darker skin = pirate
Lighter skin = fair, pure princess

It'd be fine if it had just been her getting a tan while being a sailor, but she magically reverts to being lighter-skinned after revealing she's the princess? C'mon, that's at least weird... and perpetuates the whole fair skin = purity notion, which is certainly off-putting

Watch the video

They talk about Ganon and the KH guy

 

[nel e nel]

....

.

(Am I wasting my time, GAF?)

Yes.

 

[Kinyou]

Gaming side is perpetually stuck on a "Not my video games" defense when ever social criticism is involved. A hint of it, and they lash out because it's inconceivable to show even a little bit of empathy.

It's not a waste of time since someone reading this thread might change their viewpoint.

Nothing is more convincing than insulting the entire gaming side. When did this weird gaf tribalism start anyway?

 

[Yoshi]

Nobody cares that Tetra has a tan. The problem is that when they do the reveal to show off how beautiful she really is, how almost holy she is, part of the way they achieve this is by lightening the tone of her skin. Why?

As Terta she is supposed to be an active working person under the bright sun. She is white with a tan as Tetra. But being tanned is not something one associates with a princess who just sits at home being rich and having people do everything for her. So to symbolise she is not actually the kickass Tetra (who also looks better than Zelda in my eyes), she loses her tan and looks like the fragile, passive, lazy person one expects when hearing the word princess.

i hope no one really took this as an attack exclusively on this iteration of street fighter; i've literally got hundreds of games over here and would assume, more often than not, that if there's a darker skinned character in said game it'd prolly fit this trope as well

I'll do this now. Long list incoming.

 

[Aselith]

I like dark colored villians, and i like dark colored good guys, what's the problem here?

Name some dark colored good guys

 

[Zakalwe]

human civilization survived by staying away from darkness of the night and keeping themselves brightened by the light of the fires, shadows being equivalent to darkness as they roam the frey, etc.

It was rhetorical. I was trying to highlight how silly it is to stick to.

 

[Shaka]

Nothing is more convincing than insulting the entire gaming side. When did this weird gaf tribalism start anyway?

When gaming side repeatedly show their collective asses. Off-topic can be bad but the discussions are miles ahead.
I have great respect for those willing to engage, even if the viewpoint is different.
As an African i'm used to wilful ignorance. I don't even bother engaging anymore. People don't care to understand.

 

[Zakalwe]

When gaming side repeatedly show their collective asses. Off-topic can be bad but the discussions are miles ahead.
I have great respect for those willing to engage, even if the viewpoint is different.
As an African i'm used to wilful ignorance. I don't even bother engaging anymore. People don't care to understand.

Extreme confirmation bias happening here Shak, neither side of the forum is better than the other in terms of quality of discussion.

 

[Shaka]

Extreme confirmation bias happening here Shak, neither side of the forum is better than the other in terms of quality of discussion.

Probably not, you're right.. Seen some shit on Off Topic lol.
70% of the discussion is good on all sides, no hate.

 

[LordKasual]

Name some dark colored good guys

hahahahahaa

....wait, you're serious??

yo i'm outta here

When gaming side repeatedly show their collective asses. Off-topic can be bad but the discussions are miles ahead.
I have great respect for those willing to engage, even if the viewpoint is different.
As an African i'm used to wilful ignorance. I don't even bother engaging anymore. People don't care to understand.

You think way too highly of the sort of conversations that take place in Off-Topic.

 

[RollerMeister]

Video was a bit self-wank to be honest, and asking game developers to not make evil characters dark skinned seems like a terrible "solution", if anything what they should be asking for is to have POC be featured more often in important roles, and not just in video games... In everything really.

 

[7DollarHagane]

After viewing some footage of an online match I think evil Ken looks more purplish than "black" or just dark. Kind of like Frankenstein, a zombie, or bruised skin.

Evil Ryu is just black though and not a good look. Very Japan to do that though. I think it's a cultural thing that will take longer for them to get past.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Nothing is more convincing than insulting the entire gaming side. When did this weird gaf tribalism start anyway?

After the RE5 controversy and numerous like it, Feminist Frequency, GamerGate, MGSV and Quiet, Princess Peach in Mario Run, etc and weeks ago with the black inkling thread and just this week with the black Samus reboot thread, if your takeaway here is #notallofgamingside then just lol

 

[cordy]

I've honestly never thought about this before.

 

[LordKasual]

Video was a bit self-wank to be honest, and asking game developers to not make evil characters dark skinned seems like a terrible "solution", if anything what they should be asking for is to have POC be featured more often in important roles, and not just in video games... In everything really.

^ Thank you. Attacking the light vs. dark trope is so silly and shortsighted. The issue isn't really in the trope, but having a prominent character with dark skin who subverts it will be exponentially more impactful than any bitching over a slightly darker Ryu.

I don't know why these sorts of complaint videos are always so quick to press complaining about the issue, but never actually press any solutions. Such a video would be much more fun to make, would incite less crying and backlash, and would ultimately be more useful, since it's infusing more good practice into the collective consciousness instead of just rallying people to complain over spilled milk.

But that's just me. :/

 

[Zaventem]

Name some dark colored good guys

You can't be serious....

 

[cordy]

Name some dark colored good guys

We out.

 

[Shil Pencer]

Stupid

 

[horkrux]

I have trouble thinking of examples beyond the more popular ones already given honestly. I thought villains were usually either pale, grey or straight-up black. But brown? Hmmm. I might have just played the wrong games and watched the wrong movies/cartoons, I'm willing to admit that. But even then I can't see any kind of majority gravitate towards evil characters being brown. I'm not trying to deny that there might be a certain social bias to associate brown characters with being 'evil', but I simply don't see it being reflected in media.

This is certainly no problem with Disney, though. Isolating Scar or Shan Yu from Mulan (honestly looks more like a greyish hue than brown) is incredibly misleading, since I could come up with a multitude of non-brown villains. Here's a few:

 

[Umbooki]

The 'Get Out' ads on this page really add to my thread-viewing experience.

 

[Behlel]

Name some dark colored good guys

Sazh FFXIII, Marcus of WD2. Need to continue?

 

[Synth]

in SF, they are simply tying those versions of Ryu and Ken to Akuma.

ummm... ok? But why?... Why is Akuma's skin colour the common thread the evil versions are linked by? Why does the exact same thing happen over in King of Fighters land with the Orochi Team, and characters like Iori and Leona?

 

[Cranster]

Name some dark colored good guys

Locke

 

[Shingro]

Even with a rock solid argument the easiest solution (and therefore the one that would mostly be out into practice in a commercial setting) would just be "everyone is white now" which would be super boring.

Instead of that, probably better to encourage more protagonists with more diversity, the player spends more time with them anyway and positive exposure is the best remedy to ignorant racial opinions anyway.

There's still the question if more then a handful of studios could pull off a thing without making it fall apart in some way, but sooner begun is half done.

 

[ramparter]

Nintendo is the worst about this.

Dark Link? Dark Samus? Dark Pit?

Seriously?

Lol you must be joking.

Ganon though...

 

[Aselith]

Sazh FFXIII, Marcus of WD2. Need to continue?

Sorry that was dumb way to state that. My point was to highlight the small pool rather than to start a list war