Hidden One
Member
This happened to me 4 times in the 6th palace lol. I learned from my mistakes and started back tracking to save just to be safe.
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Lost progress woes (in Persona 5)
- Thread starter QuantumSquid
- Start date
Coriolanus
Banned
Man, Eridanus wasn't so bad since i fucked off and got a map as soon as i saw what kinda bullshit that thing was trying to pull.
That boss tho. That death attack on phase 2. Fuuuuuck that shit.
That boss tho. That death attack on phase 2. Fuuuuuck that shit.
Hellsing321
Member
The only time I ever died was to the bullshit despair mechanic because my whole team got despaired.
eyeball_kid
Member
Wait, what. How do you skip the all-out animation?
Lightning Lord
Banned
Honestly, while I love the Persona games and understand the various ways to prevent the MC from dying from stuff like insta-kill moves... really wish they'd just get rid of the "MC dying = Game Over" deal. It's more of a nuisance than anything.
I haven't really died much outside of story-related fights (which you can directly redo) and now I feel like I'm sorta overpowered with just what I've haphazardly fused thanks to all the money I farmed, but I'm sympathetic in general and agree that it should at least let you keep fusions/leveling/etc. and just reset puzzles + Shadows (since they respawn when you reenter an area anyway). Ambushes suck, though it is generally a good idea to try to keep your MC's active Persona one with relevant resistances for the area (including physical null/repel as others have suggested; I don't have one right now but they've saved my ass a ton, especially when you're hanging on and trying to get the rest of your party healed).
That being said- that area definitely has a safe room super close by? That palace in general is pretty generous with having you return to central locations with safe rooms.
That being said- that area definitely has a safe room super close by? That palace in general is pretty generous with having you return to central locations with safe rooms.
It really is. Specially with team members alive who can heal, story wise it makes no sense. "not gonna revive our leader fuck this guy"
Everyone secretly hates the MC and wants his position in these games.
At least Junpei was honest about it.
Why not both? Breath of the Wild (the most recent example I can think of) has both an autosave slot and regular saves. Just have one slot that saves at the start/end of every day or at every safe room on top of the 15 manual slots the game has now. To make your potential scenarios even less likely put warnings every so often, have Morgana say "you haven't written in your journal for a while!" or something.
Merchandise
Member
Eh, that's not as bad as losing 45 minutes of progress in Nier: Automata because the game froze.
Lightning Lord
Banned
They should go the EarthBound route and have your father contact you about saving. At least in P5 it would make the parents not seem like totally heartless scumbags who never bother to contact the MC.
panama chief
Member
Horizon. Found my first infected zone after taking down like 17 of those moose looking robots. I didn't expect those tigers or whatsoever to be so vicious. I died a cheap death. Game loads, I'm back at my last save. I yelled out a deep "fuck this shit" and turned the game off. That was two weeks ago. Haven't been back.
Rapscallion
Member
Was way worse in Persona 3 and 4. The amount of saves in 5 feels like its been tripled from the last couple of games.
The whole game feels a bit easier...
The whole game feels a bit easier...
That's because it is.
nogoodnamesleft
Banned
Play around it. Save OFTEN. Prepare to die. Always get first hits in.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
The save rooms are soooo many in
. Heck you have one before the one on the beginning, one midway the first time you rode the elevator, one before the darkness room, one before the arena room....
Really. now. Should the game autosave before every encounter and reloads it immediately if you happen to be defeated?
Niijima's palace
Really. now. Should the game autosave before every encounter and reloads it immediately if you happen to be defeated?
Callibretto
Member
the game did that for boss battle and small boss battle. maybe do that with every encounter, but give penalty everytime you do a retry like money penalty, or sacrifice a persona or something.
AwakenedCloud
Member
It can be frustrating to die, but the game doesn't force you to fight everything. You can get through the area quickly and recover the exp you lost along the way even faster in later areas.
Yeah, it's a pretty crap system, and I'll say that about all JRPGs that employ this save structure, especially ones that don't allow you to save everywhere. It's an adaptable system but just creates needless menu execution to save every 10 minutes. I can understand regressing back to the start of an area with a loss of money (Dragon Quest) or a loss of exp that can be regained (Souls series) as a concession to this tactic, but a complete regression back to a save state hours before? It's just a waste of time. Sure, I learned the area or how enemies work, but I'd have known that without having to repeat an hour worth of progress before hand upon a rng death.
Should the game be challenging? Sure, but I think the challenge should come from the battle system not the deletion of progress because you lost a battle. It's a system that has little to do with an actual challenge and becomes more of a challenge in patience and redundancy.
Should the game be challenging? Sure, but I think the challenge should come from the battle system not the deletion of progress because you lost a battle. It's a system that has little to do with an actual challenge and becomes more of a challenge in patience and redundancy.
I don't mean to pick on the OP but I have heard this complaint against P5 before and it just doesn't make sense to me. Isn't there a difficulty level that lets you restart the battle if you die or something? I mean this is the "challenge" part of a RPG, you can die. P4 and P5 still gave an option to make the game part easy so you were basically playing a movie. People might be embarrassed to choose those options but if stuff like this irks you that much just suck your pride up and choose it.
MontlyCure
Member
I learned early with the SMT and Persona games to save as often as possible. I probably never go 15 minutes without saving if I can help it. Absolutely love the games but losing any substantial progress would definitely hurt my motivation to continue playing.
The problem isn't that battles are challenging, but that a challenging battle can set your progress back an hour if you didn't save. The challenge should be from the battles and not the redundancy in game play that results from losing a battle. You can still make a tactically demanding and challenging game without losing hours of progress if the player doesn't save.
PensivePen
Member
Some players like the fact that there is something at stake when losing a battle. It means that one can't play haphazardly and have to actually take care not to put themselves into dangerous situations.
Yeah and I'm saying it's an inane system that doesn't add to the tactical challenge of the game. It's dilatory and only tests patience. The actual challenge of the game should arise from battles not repetition of hours in progress.
PensivePen
Member
I didn't say anything about the challenge of the game? It doesn't add to the challenge, but it does create tension, which is something that's valuable to a lot of people. Knowing that winning or losing can be a setback for you means that your failures actually mean something.
There are probably alternative ways to accomplish this, like taking money or other resources from the player (as Pokemon and Dragon Quest do). But I suspect you'd still get a lot of complaints from the same types of players even if you implemented a system like that instead.
This is why I'm playing the game on Normal and make sure to spend money on the best equipment for the MC first and foremost.
I already basically put the game down bc I just lost interest after 90hrs but I always knew if I had gotten a gameover as described, it would've been the straw that broke the camel's back. I really wish jrpgs with that gameover mechanic would pick up on some optional QoL improvements and make it less punishing. Why can't you start every battle over like they allow for boss battles?
I already basically put the game down bc I just lost interest after 90hrs but I always knew if I had gotten a gameover as described, it would've been the straw that broke the camel's back. I really wish jrpgs with that gameover mechanic would pick up on some optional QoL improvements and make it less punishing. Why can't you start every battle over like they allow for boss battles?
If there wasn't a real threat of loss in battles then I would find that system inane. To me at that point whats the point of having multiple battles in a dungeon or level, just have one battle with each different enemy. Otherwise i'm just flipping on the auto-battle switch and doing something else or better yet just watch a youtube lets play. And I want to be clear i'm not trying to say those that want easy risk free battles in RPG's aren't real gamers or any bullshit like that, i'm just saying if thats what you want then choose those easy options that alleviate those risks when they are offered you. God knows I don't play rpgs or games hardcore like I used to in my teens. I just don't have the time or attention span like I used to do that shit. I choose casual in Fire Emblem and I admit it.
Immaculate
Banned
The one thing I like about this game though is when you lose a major boss battle the game literally lets you go back to the fight instead of loading up a previous save before you even start the boss
if you need it for random mobs you need to git gud
I'll always prefer to have a real penalty for losing over "quality of life" design choices that just remove tension and challenge from thr game. In the end all you can do is use that frustration as motivation to better learn the game's systems and be more careful so that even when the enemy gets lucky, it still isn't enough to destroy you in a single point.
It's been interesting in a way to see threads like this now that Persona is getting more popular with 5... I wonder if Atlus will change anything in P6 and SMT V based on newcomers' reactions-
This is the one thing I hope they never implement (outside of easy modes I guess). I mean, unless they heavily design the game around such a thing, they might as well just remove dungeons altogether and make it so you only fights a few mobs back to back with checkpoints in between and then a boss, because the only challenge in traversing them outside of a few simple puzzles is being able to survive up until the next safe room.
It's been interesting in a way to see threads like this now that Persona is getting more popular with 5... I wonder if Atlus will change anything in P6 and SMT V based on newcomers' reactions-
This is the one thing I hope they never implement (outside of easy modes I guess). I mean, unless they heavily design the game around such a thing, they might as well just remove dungeons altogether and make it so you only fights a few mobs back to back with checkpoints in between and then a boss, because the only challenge in traversing them outside of a few simple puzzles is being able to survive up until the next safe room.
It's like the game expects you to play well and make fewer mistakes because you know you will lose progress if you die. Them's the breaks in JRPGs. Easy mode exists for a reason and you should probably just swallow your pride and choose it if time is a concern for you personally.
I have my doubts that Atlus is reading an English forum that represents a vocal minority of people that think a game made to be easy SMT/school life simulator is too hard because you can die and lose progress if you didn't save.
I think a good way to handle it would be to have something like the recent Fire Emblem games, where you can pick permadeath or not while still picking different difficulties (at least, that's my understanding- I haven't actually played them yet). Right now the problem is that retrying battles is tied to the easiest difficulty, so anyone who wants challenging battles but without the harsh punishment is out of luck.
Dying to random enemies is one thing; dying because of an ambush is another, especially when the shitty stealth mechanics sometimes force you out into the open in front of enemies.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Doesn't the game let you restart the fight if you die? Or is that only on easy?
MisterCrow
Member
Skipping the all out attack animation is something in the settings menu I assume? I should look over that settings menu.
PensivePen
Member
Of course not, that'd require Atlus JP to acknowledge the west exist without Atlus USA pestering them about it, but who knows, I think it was Hashino o Meguro who recently commented in an interview that they've been reading western fans' feedback and that they're very happy with it. And well, I doubt no japanese players share these complaints.
Either way I'd rather they didn't change any of it so eh.
(That's a nice avatar btw, love the SCD intro).
The whole stealth and ambush system is so ridiculously rigged in favor of the player that if you do get ambushed it'll probably be 100% your fault outside of very specific scenarios.
I like the risk/reward calculations it forces you to make. I've got this much sp, can I make it to the next safe room, potentially saving a day where I can level up social stats or slinks? Or should I call it quits and head on home?
I agree I wouldn't like the actual punishment though, so basically I want to think the game will punish me so I feel the risk but whenever I want the game to not punish me. Obviously impossible.
I agree I wouldn't like the actual punishment though, so basically I want to think the game will punish me so I feel the risk but whenever I want the game to not punish me. Obviously impossible.
Bad game design.
When you lost a battle in Persona 5 (and any Megaten game, really) is to tell you "you need to prepare better" It's mostly defensive, but sometimes from a lost you can gain at least the weakness from the enemies. After that lost, I can tell you you will catch the game faster and better than before.
Devilgunman
Member
You really have no one but yourself to blame for being careless and die that late in the game. The game gives you so much options to keep MC alive. At that point in the game, you can easily fuse a persona with null/repel phys and Endure and always equips it as your starter. You're 90% guaranteed to survive the 1st turn. If everything goes south after the first turn then just run. Most of the time people die because they carelessly run around with shitty Persona equipped or maybe they are too proud to escape the fight.
poipoipoi9
Member
At that point in the game, you should fuse a Null/Repel Physical Persona. A few of the Shadows there have Null/Repel Physical, so get them in your party.
Also, if you're frustrated with the encounters, just run/sneak past the enemies.
Take it as a lesson and try again, like many people said, 45 minutes ain't so bad compared to the rest of the series.
Also, if you're frustrated with the encounters, just run/sneak past the enemies.
Take it as a lesson and try again, like many people said, 45 minutes ain't so bad compared to the rest of the series.
I mean, you can already save ANYWHERE in SMT4/A and almost everywhere in Persona 5 (and dungeons now have multiple save points not that far apart.) Only thing they can do is auto-retry/revive if you lose after EVERY battle (like FFXIII). And SMT4A already has that basically lmao.
So the problem is this disregards the fact that I'm up for challenging battles, just not losing hours of time due to an inane system. Bumping the difficulty doesn't change the save system, it changes the challenge of the fighting, something that I'm not questioning the validity of.
Sure losing a battle will allow you to prepare better and give you valuable insight on how to tackle that battle. Having to replay an hour of lost progress to get back to the point of the battle does not. The high tension rewarding moments come from self contained battles, not losing countless hours of time.
"Hours" of time? You get multiple safe rooms in Palaces at fairly decent paces. Unless you just avoid them because you're ignorant of how to read context clues I have no idea how you could miss them or not utilize them to your advantage.