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[Doctrine Dark]

What Mike Evans said still holds true - Nemesis is more unique in terms of gameplay style than say Wesker. And Nemesis is still popular, and one of the premiere faces villains for the series. Sure, Dante & Vergil have a lot of unique parts about their kit, but they also share quite a bit of overlap as well. The 2 GnG entrants have very unique character kits & that series is getting pushed by Capcom.

Nemesis is a big body with a rocket launcher. He's unique, but so far, there isn't exactly anyone on the roster remotely comparable to what Wesker was in MVC3.

Also, the storyline part? Mike said they choose characters on both gameplay and story viability. What's viable about Nemesis in a story where Heroes and Villains are fighting together for survival? He has no place in the story.

I kinda go over a lot of this in that VA podcast though lol. I should just save it for that.

Looking forward to it.

 

[Shadoken]

I talked this character specifically yesterday - what would Leon bring that is wholly different from Chris in terms of a kit, that would warrant him being in & Chris not being in? In the world of RE, he's another 'human' character who relies on guns/knives/traps - they'd just be making another Chris.

Leon is like John Wick. Chris is more heavy artillery type. I feel like Leon would be the more mobile character that Chris. While not as mobile as Jill. I can see him pulling more of his slide and shoot that he did in RE6. Leon focusses more on style , he could be similar to a Gunslinger style Dante.

You mention the new RE movie , the difference between both characters is clear as day in that action scene.

 

[Neonep]

I talked this character specifically yesterday - what would Leon bring that is wholly different from Chris in terms of a kit, that would warrant him being in & Chris not being in? In the world of RE, he's another 'human' character who relies on guns/knives/traps - they'd just be making another Chris.

You can easily make another character that uses guns, knives, & traps in a different way

 

[Doctrine Dark]

Leon's melee is entirely different than Chris. Chris (in MVC3) was more of a keepaway character. I could easily see Leon being more rushdown oriented. He's known for being agile and has those cool roundhouse kicks and stuff.

Capcom wouldn't have an issue making them different. Leon is also more popular.

 

[Seyavesh]

lmao at dante and vergil being similar at all in terms of their gameplay

this has got to be a bit

 

[Jawmuncher]

Leon as a grappler

Kicks, Suplexes, punches. Basically make him only use his knife and melee moves from 4 & 6

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

And yet, the largest complaint about this game's roster is that there aren't enough returning characters, not that there aren't enough new characters.

The roster size is too small. This isn't TvC where you have a small handful of anime lincenses to deal with.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

And yet, the largest complaint about this game's roster is that there aren't enough returning characters

No it's that the returning characters suck

 

[Jawmuncher]

No it's that the returning characters suck

Yeah my biggest complaint is definitely based on the picks themselves and the lack of newcomers

 

[enzo_gt]

I'm 100% with Sneakers on the roster. It's not ideal and there are super legitimate complaints/concerns expressed but stamping of the feet and liberally calling it terrible and the worst shit since Nagasaki etc. is patented internet outrage. The other thread is particularly embarrassing in this regard and kind of everything I hate about discussing games on the Internet.

It's part:

- Exorbitant expectations (character from comics, which's popularity have had little-to-no-influence on games since the 90s is "obvious"/given!) - This point is compounded if you've been part of hype cycles before, in which yeah you should kind of know what you're getting into.
- Willful ignorance of the necessity of mainstream sales to, y'know actually fund a title like this instead of the fantasies of SquirrelGRRLFan80.
- The absolutely baffling - yet persisting - sentiment that series are allotted, or worse, deserve a number of reps which for MvC:I and MvC3 was never mentioned in their criteria for selecting characters (remember MvC3? When people were guessing each SF series would get it's own rep?)
- Willful ignorance that gameplay needs (i.e. say for heavies like Nemesis) may sometimes come before throwing a bone to your favourite dead franchise. And this is touchy because playstyles are mostly unique so it's at the dev's discretion.
- And a little bit of trying to put method to the madness that is Capcom, which I can totally understand, we all want order when trying to predict a roster, but this comes at the cost of building an unstable tower of assumptions about the roster as time goes on. Look how quick people were to develop assumptions about the comic book cross-promotion.
- Lastly, pure disappointment that your favourite character(s) did not get in. This I also understand, and it's a make/break thing for a lot of people.

And this is after taking stock of legitimate concerns about roster size and conventions for picks, AND my personal belief that MvC has always been a gateway into the comics because it's what got me to care about comic book characters in the first place all those years ago. I'm also totally with the idea of just throwing all mainstays out the window and increasing the number of quirky/obscure as much as possible. But I know I'm in the minority. I'm also not mortally offended that the majority of Marvel fans today are not like me, and can deal with that because I'm a fan of these characters too. Yet, we make these assumptions or rules or guidelines for expectations that have been knowingly crossed or never followed in the first place and use those as realistic, not ideal, expectations? Why? I don't get it.

tl;dr: Hyperbole sucks. The roster is not the greatest, but it's definitely fine, and definitely not bad. People would be begging for Ultron and X if they were replaced by others anyways.

On a related note, and not to make it a contest, but IMO the lack of female and PoC reps is a way bigger social/industry and commercial/sales issue than 28 or 38 characters, or any character individually not getting in. Especially if that gets some momentum behind it.

 

[Shadoken]

Leon's melee is entirely different than Chris. Chris (in MVC3) was more of a keepaway character. I could easily see Leon being more rushdown oriented. He's known for being agile and has those cool roundhouse kicks and stuff.

Capcom wouldn't have an issue making them different. Leon is also more popular.

Yea this clip alone just shows how different they are. completely different style of fighting , even the way they use the same weapons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdcp5CJf9XE

 

[SneakersSO]

Nemesis is a big body with a rocket launcher. He's unique, but so far, there isn't exactly anyone on the roster remotely comparable to what Wesker was in MVC3.

Also, the storyline part? Mike said they choose characters on both gameplay and story viability. What's viable about Nemesis in a story where Heroes and Villains are fighting together for survival? He has no place in the story.



Looking forward to it.

A living bioweapon who continuously evolves & grows stronger, who is mindless, easily controlled, and could be used to try & tangle/take down the Hulk has no purpose in the story?

As far as no one on the roster being remotely close to what Wesker was - Wesker's defining trait in terms of gameplay was that he could 2/3rd-screen teleport off of ranged hits & convert those hits into combos. All while looking super cool, cause Wesker was basically always 'anime meets The Matrix's Neo' in terms of inspiration.

2/3rd screen teleport into combo is now an infinity stone (Time Stone). So if thats all Wesker offered (minus the 'cool' factor that is Wesker), then he really didn't bring a whole lot that is unique outside of that one thing which is now available to every character.

 

[Dahbomb]

Asking for Leon is dumb and deep down everyone knows it.

Just hope for a Leon alt for Chris and be done with it.


And Wesker isn't just a teleporter... he has command grabs, special counters and a gun. No one actually plays quite like Wesker who combines so many fundamentals elements of a FG character. We will definitely see him back though.

 

[Neonep]

And yet, the largest complaint about this game's roster is that there aren't enough returning characters, not that there aren't enough new characters.

Wrong, the largest complaint is that with limited space they chose certain characters that weren't really in demand and people feel they took slots away from other characters that were in higher demand. If this was a massive roster then yeah people wouldn't really be complaining but since the roster is limited then slots come at a premium and with that you have to select the most popular and in demand characters. That's where Capcom failed.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I'm 100% with Sneakers on the roster. It's not ideal and there are super legitimate complaints/concerns expressed but stamping of the feet and liberally calling it terrible and the worst shit since Nagasaki etc. is patented internet outrage. The other thread is particularly embarrassing in this regard and kind of everything I hate about discussing games on the Internet.

It's part:

- Exorbitant expectations (character from comics, which's popularity have had little-to-no-influence on games since the 90s is "obvious"/given!) - This point is compounded if you've been part of hype cycles before, in which yeah you should kind of know what you're getting into.
- Willful ignorance of the necessity of mainstream sales to, y'know actually fund a title like this instead of the fantasies of SquirrelGRRLFan80.
- The absolutely baffling - yet persisting - sentiment that series are allotted, or worse, deserve a number of reps which for MvC:I and MvC3 was never mentioned in their criteria for selecting characters (remember MvC3? When people were guessing each SF series would get it's own rep?)
- Willful ignorance that gameplay needs (i.e. say for heavies like Nemesis) may sometimes come before throwing a bone to your favourite dead franchise. And this is touchy because playstyles are mostly unique so it's at the dev's discretion.
- And a little bit of trying to put method to the madness that is Capcom, which I can totally understand, we all want order when trying to predict a roster, but this comes at the cost of building an unstable tower of assumptions about the roster as time goes on. Look how quick people were to develop assumptions about the comic book cross-promotion.
- Lastly, pure disappointment that your favourite character(s) did not get in. This I also understand, and it's a make/break thing for a lot of people.

And this is after taking stock of legitimate concerns about roster size and conventions for picks, AND my personal belief that MvC has always been a gateway into the comics because it's what got me to care about comic book characters in the first place all those years ago. I'm also totally with the idea of just throwing all mainstays out the window and increasing the number of quirky/obscure as much as possible. But I know I'm in the minority. I'm also not mortally offended that the majority of Marvel fans today are not like me, and can deal with that because I'm a fan of these characters too. Yet, we make these assumptions or rules or guidelines for expectations that have been knowingly crossed or never followed in the first place and use those as realistic, not ideal, expectations? Why? I don't get it.

tl;dr: Hyperbole sucks. The roster is not the greatest, but it's definitely fine, and definitely not bad. People would be begging for Ultron and X if they were replaced by others anyways.

On a related note, and not to make it a contest, but IMO the lack of female and PoC reps is a way bigger social/industry and commercial/sales issue than 28 or 38 characters, or any character individually not getting in. Especially if that gets some momentum behind it.

Oh don't worry. It will.

Aside from the bolderd, I think the criticism is deserved. While there are some ridiculous statements from some. In general the threads have been pretty much just reasonable dissapointment. Remember not everyone in these threads are playing at the same levels so characters being in a VS game is going to be a far bigger factor of interest than play styles. So while it's fine to tell some they need to chill out (to be fair they do), the general lack of enthusiasm is warranted. There wasn't anywhere near this much push back with MVC3 or SFV. Two different games surely, but the difference between the current reception on rosters is crazy. Especially on social media. Capcom was already changing the game from 3v3 to 2v2, then there was the lackluster reveals twice. The roster was the last straw for a lot of people.

At the end of the day though it's all about money. If this has a launch worse or on par with SFV than once again people put their money where their mouth is.

 

[JeTmAn81]

Alright, that's it. I don't think that roster's legit. It's so half-baked and backwards that I don't think even Capcom would be stupid enough to put that out as the base game. The roster will be better when the game releases.

 

[Shadoken]

Asking for Leon is dumb and deep down everyone knows it.

Just hope for a Leon alt for Chris and be done with it.
.

Lmao .... Leon gonna be for MvCI what Megaman was for MvC3.

MvC4 reveal trailer , Leon is first character revealed.

 

[SneakersSO]

Yea this clip alone just shows how different they are. completely different style of fighting , even the way they use the same weapons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdcp5CJf9XE

if you're making a shooting game, then i'd agree with you - John Wick presents Leon Kennedy would be cool. This, however, is still a fighting game, so the point still stands as to what would Leon bring to a grounded, 'human' character other than more badass jackets, eye-covering hair, a few more knife attacks?

 

[Lulubop]

I'm 100% with Sneakers on the roster. It's not ideal and there are super legitimate complaints/concerns expressed but stamping of the feet and liberally calling it terrible and the worst shit since Nagasaki etc. is patented internet outrage. The other thread is particularly embarrassing in this regard and kind of everything I hate about discussing games on the Internet.

It's part:

- Exorbitant expectations (character from comics, which's popularity have had little-to-no-influence on games since the 90s is "obvious"/given!) - This point is compounded if you've been part of hype cycles before, in which yeah you should kind of know what you're getting into.
- Willful ignorance of the necessity of mainstream sales to, y'know actually fund a title like this instead of the fantasies of SquirrelGRRLFan80.
- The absolutely baffling - yet persisting - sentiment that series are allotted, or worse, deserve a number of reps which for MvC:I and MvC3 was never mentioned in their criteria for selecting characters (remember MvC3? When people were guessing each SF series would get it's own rep?)
- Willful ignorance that gameplay needs (i.e. say for heavies like Nemesis) may sometimes come before throwing a bone to your favourite dead franchise. And this is touchy because playstyles are mostly unique so it's at the dev's discretion.
- And a little bit of trying to put method to the madness that is Capcom, which I can totally understand, we all want order when trying to predict a roster, but this comes at the cost of building an unstable tower of assumptions about the roster as time goes on. Look how quick people were to develop assumptions about the comic book cross-promotion.
- Lastly, pure disappointment that your favourite character(s) did not get in. This I also understand, and it's a make/break thing for a lot of people.

And this is after taking stock of legitimate concerns about roster size and conventions for picks, AND my personal belief that MvC has always been a gateway into the comics because it's what got me to care about comic book characters in the first place all those years ago. I'm also totally with the idea of just throwing all mainstays out the window and increasing the number of quirky/obscure as much as possible. But I know I'm in the minority. I'm also not mortally offended that the majority of Marvel fans today are not like me, and can deal with that because I'm a fan of these characters too. Yet, we make these assumptions or rules or guidelines for expectations that have been knowingly crossed or never followed in the first place and use those as realistic, not ideal, expectations? Why? I don't get it.

tl;dr: Hyperbole sucks. The roster is not the greatest, but it's definitely fine, and definitely not bad. People would be begging for Ultron and X if they were replaced by others anyways.

On a related note, and not to make it a contest, but IMO the lack of female and PoC reps is a way bigger social/industry and commercial/sales issue than 28 or 38 characters, or any character individually not getting in. Especially if that gets some momentum behind it.

Again the problem is the size. Costumers are going to weight the value of the game against it's peers and it's going to fail, especially after the disaster that was SFV. It's no hyperbole, there's no costumer confidence in this project or Capcom.

 

[Neoxon]

Alright, that's it. I don't think that roster's legit. It's so half-baked and backwards that I don't think even Capcom would be stupid enough to put that out as the base game. The roster will be better when the game releases.

Ryce was the one who leaked it, plus a number of others with inside connections are backing it up.

 

[Dahbomb]

Lmao .... Leon gonna be for MvCI what Megaman was for MvC3.

MvC4 reveal trailer , Leon is first character revealed.

Megaman makes perfect sense and always should be in these games.

Leon is just a dude with a gun in a game series filled with dudes with gun. It honestly doesn't matter if it's Chris or Leon or Marvel 2 Jill or Barry or Ada.

I think in every VS game they should swap these characters up on a rotation but they all play the same. So in the next Marvel game we should have Leon but he plays like Chris. And then give that character alts of all those RE dudes with guns.

 

[BassForever]

And yet, the largest complaint about this game's roster is that there aren't enough returning characters, not that there aren't enough new characters.

I'd say it's a mixture of problems that has people upset

You look at the newcomer list and it's mostly safe/expected picks missing some of the more popular fan speculated characters.

You look at the veterans list and see a combination of fan favorite series gone completely and fan favorites in popular series gone but less popular characters from their series remaining.

These two issues combined with the small roster and seemingly aggressive dlc plans for just the end of this year, it's the perfect storm for backlash.

 

[Waddle Dee]

I wonder how Antman will play? I assume he'll be able to call in various insects to attack the player, but how will his size morphing come into play? Will he able to change on the fly?

I think it'd be pretty neat to have a character who can radically change the size of their hitbox as a special move.

 

[Neonep]

On a related note, and not to make it a contest, but IMO the lack of female and PoC reps is a way bigger social/industry and commercial/sales issue than 28 or 38 characters, or any character individually not getting in. Especially if that gets some momentum behind it.

I really agree with this. It's one thing to have crazy expectations with the roster, it's another thing to set your expectations correctly in line with the current landscape and still disappointed. Black Panther not being in the base roster is probably the biggest foul of the entire thing.

 

[Doctrine Dark]

A living bioweapon who continuously evolves & grows stronger, who is mindless, easily controlled, and could be used to try & tangle/take down the Hulk has no purpose in the story?

As far as no one on the roster being remotely close to what Wesker was - Wesker's defining trait in terms of gameplay was that he could 2/3rd-screen teleport off of ranged hits & convert those hits into combos. All while looking super cool, cause Wesker was basically always 'anime meets The Matrix's Neo' in terms of inspiration.

2/3rd screen teleport into combo is now an infinity stone (Time Stone). So if thats all Wesker offered (minus the 'cool' factor that is Wesker), then he really didn't bring a whole lot that is unique outside of that one thing which is now available to every character.

Nemesis is just a BOW created to kill STARS. He's not that deep. And Hulk smashed him in his MVC3 ending. He shoots rockets, smacks you with the rocket launcher, and can hit you with dirty noodles. Fun character, but Wesker was a lot more fun.

Wesker was also much more than just teleports.

It seems like you're really short-selling the characters left out of the roster to justify these choices.

 

[JeTmAn81]

Ryce was the one who leaked it, plus a number of others with inside connections are backing it up.

Ryce isn't batting a thousand. I don't believe he's right on this.

 

[The Broken Ska Record]

Asking for Leon is dumb and deep down everyone knows it.

Just hope for a Leon alt for Chris and be done with it.

I don't see a Leon alt ever happening for Chris "Built Like A Goddamn Brick Wall" Redfield.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Ryce isn't batting a thousand. I don't believe he's right on this.

There's always a chance this was maybe an earlier idea of the roster or something. But when others are kinda validating it, things start to be worrisome.

 

[SneakersSO]

Nemesis is just a BOW created to kill STARS. He's not that deep. And Hulk smashed him in his MVC3 ending. He shoots rockets, smacks you with the rocket launcher, and can hit you with dirty noodles.

Wesker was much more than just teleports.

He had teleports, command grabs, and counters - these aren't exactly the most unique things that would guarantee his inclusion, or make him more unique in a Marvel landscape. A counter & command grab could easily be added to Dante's repertoire, and he would then have all 3 of Wesker's defining traits, minus cool sunglasses. And i'm saying this as someone who mained Wesker in MvC3/UMvC3!

And if they have positioned Hulk & Nemesis against one another in the past, there is no reason they shouldn't do it again. Hulk is a hero, Nemesis is a bad guy, they are both big strong monsters. Its a natural pairing, coupled with the fact that Nemesis had a more unique playstyle in UMvC3. Nemesis ain't deep, but he does have a lot going for him to be featured in this game.

 

[Dahbomb]

The backlash in here is nothing compared to what's gonna happen when Johnny Donuts and Steam user #4234 get their hands on the game and realize Wolverine and Deadpool aren't in the game. People in here are at least somewhat accepting of the whole FOX thing but that's not going to work with the casuals or the other people not as much in the know.

"Doesn't have Wolverine, Magnash when UMVC3 on Steam does and it's like $20 bucks? Refunded the game instantly on Steam. Also this game looks like an iphone game. 1/10 review" Some random steam review that is going to happen a lot.

A counter & command grab could easily be added to Dante's repertoire, and he would then have all 3 of Wesker's defining traits, minus cool sunglasses. And i'm saying this as someone who mained Wesker in MvC3/UMvC3!

Dante has never had a command grab in any game or fighter. That's like the only thing he has never had, he really is not a grappler at all. Dante's counters don't work at all like Wesker's either.

Unless that is something in DMC5 in which case.. that is one sly as fuck leak right there.

 

[Waddle Dee]

I don't see a Leon alt ever happening for Chris "Built Like A Goddamn Brick Wall" Redfield.

Yeah, Leon is cool and all and RE4 is the best game Capcom's ever put out imo, but Chris is the main character of RE (more or less) and he's a lovably dumb beefcake.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I am curious how the whole Xmen thing is gonna work. They might wanna confirm that they'll be coming later at some point soon. Since there has been a lot of posts on the social media side wondering where they are.

Even before the roster reveal that was always going to be a factor they'd have to work against. Especially when the Xmen have been so ingrained into the VS series for so long.

 

[Neonep]

The backlash in here is nothing compared to what's gonna happen when Johnny Donuts and Steam user #4234 get their hands on the game and realize Wolverine and Deadpool aren't in the game. People in here are at least somewhat accepting of the whole FOX thing but that's not going to work with the casuals or the other people not as much in the know.

"Doesn't have Wolverine, Magnash when UMVC3 on Steam does and it's like $20 bucks? Refunded the game instantly on Steam. Also this game looks like an iphone game. 1/10 review" Some random steam review that is going to happen a lot.



Dante has never had a command grab in any game or fighter. That's like the only thing he has never had, he really is not a grappler at all. Dante's counters don't work at all like Wesker's either.

Unless that is something in DMC5 in which case.. that is one sly as fuck leak right there.

1. 100% agree on the first point. Us on here have known about the no Fox characters for months and kinda came to piece with it. Then when the roster leaked a few days ago I saw that basically the general public didn't know and I saw a lot of people surprised and articles written about this.

2. Dante has never been a grappler. That apart of the appeal of Nero.

 

[Jawmuncher]

1. 100% agree on the first point. Us on here have known about the no Fox characters for months and kinda came to piece with it. Then when the roster leaked a few days ago I saw that basically the general public didn't know and I saw a lot of people surprised and articles written about this.

2. Dante has never been a grappler. That apart of the appeal of Nero.

Yeah it was pretty telling when the majority of articles were basically "MVCI LEAK NO XMEN"

 

[Neonep]

Also another reason why people are upset is this shit Capcom has been pulling for a long time with their fighting games. There's always something if it's not SFXT, it's SFV where they dampen excitement by doing something stupid and uncalled for. Yet they refuse to learn from their mistakes. They seemingly haven't learned from SFV and are rushing this game out. If it doesn't do well then they will have nobody to blame but themselves.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Also another reason why people are upset is this shit Capcom has been pulling for a long time with their fighting games. There's always something if it's not SFXT, it's SFV where they dampen excitement by doing something stupid and uncalled for. Yet they refuse to learn from their mistakes. They seemingly haven't learned from SFV and are rushing this game out. If it doesn't do well then they will have nobody to blame but themselves.

They did learn from MVCI.
"Have a story and Arcade mode at launch".
Does seem they might've missed the rest of the info when it comes to appealing to more mainstream tastes.

 

[Doctrine Dark]

He had teleports, command grabs, and counters - these aren't exactly the most unique things that would guarantee his inclusion, or make him more unique in a Marvel landscape. A counter & command grab could easily be added to Dante's repertoire, and he would then have all 3 of Wesker's defining traits, minus cool sunglasses. And i'm saying this as someone who mained Wesker in MvC3/UMvC3!

And if they have positioned Hulk & Nemesis against one another in the past, there is no reason they shouldn't do it again. Hulk is a hero, Nemesis is a bad guy, they are both big strong monsters. Its a natural pairing, coupled with the fact that Nemesis had a more unique playstyle in UMvC3. Nemesis ain't deep, but he does have a lot going for him to be featured in this game.

Hulk wasn't just paired with Nemesis, though. He also had a rivalry with Haggar as well.

Wesker and Doom were the masterminds of the uniting the worlds in MVC3. Wesker makes far more sense storywise than Nemesis ever could. He brings more to the table than being a brute that just blows stuff up.

 

[DR2K]

I'm 100% with Sneakers on the roster. It's not ideal and there are super legitimate complaints/concerns expressed but stamping of the feet and liberally calling it terrible and the worst shit since Nagasaki etc. is patented internet outrage. The other thread is particularly embarrassing in this regard and kind of everything I hate about discussing games on the Internet.

It's part:

- Exorbitant expectations (character from comics, which's popularity have had little-to-no-influence on games since the 90s is "obvious"/given!) - This point is compounded if you've been part of hype cycles before, in which yeah you should kind of know what you're getting into.
- Willful ignorance of the necessity of mainstream sales to, y'know actually fund a title like this instead of the fantasies of SquirrelGRRLFan80.
- The absolutely baffling - yet persisting - sentiment that series are allotted, or worse, deserve a number of reps which for MvC:I and MvC3 was never mentioned in their criteria for selecting characters (remember MvC3? When people were guessing each SF series would get it's own rep?)
- Willful ignorance that gameplay needs (i.e. say for heavies like Nemesis) may sometimes come before throwing a bone to your favourite dead franchise. And this is touchy because playstyles are mostly unique so it's at the dev's discretion.
- And a little bit of trying to put method to the madness that is Capcom, which I can totally understand, we all want order when trying to predict a roster, but this comes at the cost of building an unstable tower of assumptions about the roster as time goes on. Look how quick people were to develop assumptions about the comic book cross-promotion.
- Lastly, pure disappointment that your favourite character(s) did not get in. This I also understand, and it's a make/break thing for a lot of people.

And this is after taking stock of legitimate concerns about roster size and conventions for picks, AND my personal belief that MvC has always been a gateway into the comics because it's what got me to care about comic book characters in the first place all those years ago. I'm also totally with the idea of just throwing all mainstays out the window and increasing the number of quirky/obscure as much as possible. But I know I'm in the minority. I'm also not mortally offended that the majority of Marvel fans today are not like me, and can deal with that because I'm a fan of these characters too. Yet, we make these assumptions or rules or guidelines for expectations that have been knowingly crossed or never followed in the first place and use those as realistic, not ideal, expectations? Why? I don't get it.

tl;dr: Hyperbole sucks. The roster is not the greatest, but it's definitely fine, and definitely not bad. People would be begging for Ultron and X if they were replaced by others anyways.

On a related note, and not to make it a contest, but IMO the lack of female and PoC reps is a way bigger social/industry and commercial/sales issue than 28 or 38 characters, or any character individually not getting in. Especially if that gets some momentum behind it.

The roster is objectively terrible.

-Only 28 characters, a series low since MVC1.
-6 DLC, which will have to be paid for separately. These are the actual new characters and assets being charged for when they should be in the base game
-Reused (almost 100% reused) character assets AND a low character count means there are going to be huge problems with the base game. This is pure rushed of the door laziness
-Less than half are actually new, as in made from the ground up and not reusing assets
-MCU focus means the legacy of the series isn't even represented.
-Capcom side is just as pathetic, why GnG got 2 reps in a 14 man lineup makes no sense. On top of Jill and Wesker losing out to Nemisis. These aren't even new characters, they'll be reused assets as well.
-Lack of women and people of color. Could have been alleviated just resusing assets from MVC3.
-Lack of fan favorites on BOTH sides.

It's fucking awful for many reasons for many people.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

And Wesker isn't just a teleporter... he has command grabs, special counters and a gun. No one actually plays quite like Wesker who combines so many fundamentals elements of a FG character. We will definitely see him back though.

Definitely? What makes you so sure

 

[TreIII]

GARGOYLE'S QUEST 3 AND/OR DEMON'S CREST 2 CONFIRMED!

Or, yeah, that Knights of Aegis game being a new GnG. But I'd prefer NEW GARGOYLE'S QUEST!

You and me both, man.

The one good silver lining in all this is that perhaps this is indeed a sign that both GnG and MMX both so focal in this game is that they'll both get new games, soon.

Now, to just hope that those future plans are good ones...

 

[JusDoIt]

Nilin RIP.

 

[Dahbomb]

You can't complain about "lack of fan favorites" and then also complain about not having enough new characters. That's like asking for two separate things. Any newcomer they add means they didn't put in a fan favorite instead.

 

[Neonep]

They did learn from MVCI.
"Have a story and Arcade mode at launch".
Does seem they might've missed the rest of the info when it comes to appealing to more mainstream tastes.

The thing is I wasn't upset at the SFV launch roster because you can tell they made concerted effort to balance returning and new. In the launch roster they brought back mainstays from SFIV, new characters, and old characters that didn't appear in SFIV.
They were able to accomplish that with 16 characters. Yet they couldn't accomplish that in MVC:I with 28 slots.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Definitely? What makes you so sure

FGC and casual favorite is EASY DLC money.
Vergil will be the same thing.

The thing is I wasn't upset at the SFV launch roster because you can tell they made concerted effort to balance returning and new. In the launch roster they brought back mainstays from SFIV, new characters, and old characters that didn't appear in SFIV.
They were able to accomplish that with 16 characters. Yet they couldn't accomplish that in MVC:I with 28 slots.

Yeah I don't recall too much dissapointment in the launch roster. I remember there being complaints of the numbers or fan favorites. But like you said they did a good job with the case roster balancing everything out compared to here. Though I will say thus far the Season 2 hasn't seemed to be as positively received. They really should've went for 3 new 3 old. But since we haven't seen the rest of the roster maybe that changes.

 

[JazzmanZ]

The roster is objectively terrible.

-Only 28 characters, a series low since MVC1.
-6 DLC, which will have to be paid for separately. These are the actual new characters and assets being charged for when they should be in the base game
-Reused (almost 100% reused) character assets AND a low character count means there are going to be huge problems with the base game. This is pure rushed of the door laziness
-Less than half are actually new, as in made from the ground up and not reusing assets
-MCU focus means the legacy of the series isn't even represented.
-Capcom side is just as pathetic, why GnG got 2 reps in a 14 man lineup makes no sense. On top of Jill and Wesker losing out to Nemisis. These aren't even new characters, they'll be reused assets as well.
-Lack of women and people of color. Could have been alleviated just resusing assets from MVC3.
-Lack of fan favorites on BOTH sides.

It's fucking awful for many reasons for many people.

You keep saying Reused assets, sure the models are probably from MvC3 but why is exactly is that a bad thing? these guys will most likely have new moves, reworked moves, changed hitboxes and speeds and specials, thats not exactly something that can be done lazily.

 

[Lulubop]

You can't complain about "lack of fan favorites" and then also complain about not having enough new characters. That's like asking for two separate things. Any newcomer they add means they didn't put in a fan favorite instead.

Almost like they could do both with a bigger roster. So yes you can complain about both, and it's due to the size.

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

The roster is objectively terrible.

-Only 28 characters, a series low since MVC1.
-6 DLC, which will have to be paid for separately. These are the actual new characters and assets being charged for when they should be in the base game
-Reused (almost 100% reused) character assets AND a low character count means there are going to be huge problems with the base game. This is pure rushed of the door laziness
-Less than half are actually new, as in made from the ground up and not reusing assets
-MCU focus means the legacy of the series isn't even represented.
-Capcom side is just as pathetic, why GnG got 2 reps in a 14 man lineup makes no sense. On top of Jill and Wesker losing out to Nemisis. These aren't even new characters, they'll be reused assets as well.
-Lack of women and people of color. Could have been alleviated just resusing assets from MVC3.
-Lack of fan favorites on BOTH sides.

It's fucking awful for many reasons for many people.

My thing to is even if this was strictly going to be a straight up MCU vs Capcom roster, the omission of characters like Black Widow, Black Panther, Winter Soldier, Falcon, & Scarlet Witch is stupid

 

[Akiller]

You can't complain about "lack of fan favorites" and then also complain about not having enough new characters. That's like asking for two separate things. Any newcomer they add means they didn't put in a fan favorite instead.

tbf , in the case of crossover games, newcomers can be "fan favorites" too. Actually, they usually get added because of that.

 

[Doctrine Dark]

Definitely? What makes you so sure

DLC most likely.

You keep saying Reused assets, sure the models are probably from MvC3 but why is exactly is that a bad thing? these guys will most likely have new moves, reworked moves, changed hitboxes and speeds and specials, thats not exactly something that can be done lazily.

That's not the bad part. The bad part is the fact that this is a 28 character roster despite that.

 

[vg260]

Hulk wasn't just paired with Nemesis, though. He also had a rivalry with Haggar as well.

Wesker and Doom were the masterminds of the uniting the worlds in MVC3. Wesker makes far more sense storywise than Nemesis ever could. He brings more to the table than being a brute that just blows stuff up.

You can justify absolutely anything in a big mash up like this, though.

Wesker's mastermindendness goes out the window when Ultron/Sigma are the masterminds here. It's the too many villains problem that plagues so many superhero movies. You don't want a Spider-Man 3 or Batman and Robin thing here. See? Totally explained away.