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[Leunam]

Have some of you lost your fucking minds?

Why are people who are fine with Milo getting on our talk shows under the impression that he's going on them because he has an interest in being swayed? Why do people think Milo is in any way not doing this in order to spread his brand of bullshit and/or earn more money? Why do you guys keep thinking these kinds of people are sincere?

This is how the right keeps taking advantage of us.

I have a friend who thinks that listening to opposing views allows one side the chance to gather ammunition in their debates and positions against them.

Not completely insane reasoning I think, but there's not much to learn from nut jobs like Yiannapoulos by giving them a platform. I think having people like him on the show allows people to get on their middle ground high horse and make themselves feel better for being so open minded, like Bill Maher. I think that's part of the appeal.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Absolutely Not. Free Speech is Free Speech is Free Speech. What part of FREE is not clear?

Besides, the way social media works now...retribution is swift and people can't run from that speech.

"Free speech" applies only to the government and provides protection of citizens from government punishment for that speech (with some exceptions). It does not exist outside of that.

 

[theepicoftyler]

Indeed.

You got me!

 

[Trokil]

Literally no one cares if some 61 year old fuck with money is fucking a 25 y/o model.

Like, we imagine Mahar as some family man or something, some virtuous pillar of traditional values. :lol

Why else would he bring it up the way he did? Dudes grossss af and has a persecution complex about how grossss af he is.

Do you even have any idea what you are talking about?

This is crazy, this can not be real I hope.

 

[dakun]

Do you even have any idea what you are talking about?

This is crazy, this can not be real I hope.

The way he wrote gross twice i can't take it serious, so it really doesn't matter if he's joking.

 

[fantomena]

I will continue to watch him, I find him funny, sorry GAF.

And btw, HBO won't do shit, If they did cancel Real Time, I will be very suprised. They hired him AFTER the Politically Incorrect shitstorm. They knew exactly who he was.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Have some of you lost your fucking minds?

Why are people who are fine with Milo getting on our talk shows under the impression that he's going on them because he has an interest in being swayed? Why do people think Milo is in any way not doing this in order to spread his brand of bullshit and/or earn more money? Why do you guys keep thinking these kinds of people are sincere?

This is how the right keeps taking advantage of us.

It's usually people who think they are more intelligent, wittier, and more persuasive than they really are who think that.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I will continue to watch him, I find him funny, sorry GAF.

And btw, HBO won't do shit, If they did cancel Real Time, I will be very suprised. They hired him AFTER the Politically Incorrect shitstorm. They knew exactly who he is.

Ok?

Like good for you?

 

[marrec]

Do you even have any idea what you are talking about?

This is crazy, this can not be real I hope.

Show me where people are ostracizing someone for dating younger, in any comparable way to the way gays are (were) treated when coming out of the closet?

The last politically incorrect thing you can do in America? Mmh? Really Mahar? Younger hmm? Not forgiven really?

Younger

 

[Deepwater]

I think the way to go on is to help Muslims reform and change those bad systems that are hurting them and everyone else.

One of the issues I have with seeing a resolution to this is that even tho Islam is tied to Muslims obviously, Islam is still an ideology and people can say Islam is peaceful and good, but in theory everything might sound fine and dandy, while not so much in practice; because of human nature.

It all comes down to bad people and the susceptibility of an ideology to those people. Islam looks to be more susceptible, as a result of numerous factors(poverty, unrest, education etc.) that have been mellowed down in some other religions. That mellowing down part has to be supported and encouraged.

as a black man in America I have more issues with white christianity than I do Islam (anywhere else). Black people in Africa and in the Middle East might have a different perspective, but it's all relative. But while it's all relative, I know how to measure my critiques of Christianity and I know that no external force is going to spur any denomination of Christianity to change it's ways. Same with Islam. Islam is a growing religion (and it's already big as hell), you're (and nobody else for that matter) not going to intentionally and actively spur any change on it as a non practitioner. That has to come from within.

Like I mentioned before, all of the negative things that come from certain institutions of Islam predominately affect Muslims first and foremost, they will be (and are) the first ones in line to change it. Best thing you can do is find those who are trying to enact those changes and support them in however you see fit.

And importantly, direct your energy to where you do have an obligation to solve, which is American/West provocation and disruption of Islamic countries. That is a key element that is missing from many discussions on Islam.

 

[L Thammy]

I'll never get attitudes to free speech. Why is that the goal above all else? Maybe it comes from treating old legal documents like religious texts.

Free speech is also used as something to hide behind when you're trying oppress minorities and other vulnerable groups. Other first world nations set reasonable limits on free speech without becoming police states. And, in fact, they tend to put far smaller percentages of their own populations behind bar while they do it. Why can't America figure that out?

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Show me where people are ostracizing someone for dating younger, in any comparable way to the way gays are (were) treated when coming out of the closet?

The last politically incorrect thing you can do in America? Mmh? Really Mahar? Younger hmm?

Yeah i don't really get it. Aren't Amal and George Clooney a pretty beloved couple here in the states?

 

[fantomena]

Ok?

Like good for you?

Just stated my view on Maher like most people in this thread.

There are a number of things I disagree with him on (GMO, vaccines, certain stances on religion like Islam etc.), but I won't stop watching Real Time because of that.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Seems like Maher will just become a show for someone else. The current base doesn't have time to sit around and have people treat them inhumanely. Giving that a platform is pointless.

 

[marrec]

Yeah i don't really get it. Aren't Amal and George Clooney a pretty beloved couple here in the states?

I mean, I guess? I don't follow celeb culture but there certainly isn't some massive backlash against Clooney.

Either Mahar lives in some weird ass fantasy land (which, I mean, is possible considering his other moronic views) or he's got some extreme shit in the back of his head he knows is ACTUALLY unforgivable.

 

[Raven117]

"Free speech" applies only to the government and provides protection of citizens from government punishment for that speech (with some exceptions). It does not exist outside of that.

Thanks, Chemerinsky. Please refer back to my post and the post I quoted and then we can talk about whether the Slaughterhouse cases eviscerated part one of the 14th Amendment and whether they were correctly decided.

Spoiler

snark aside, I know...the post I was referring to specifically implicated LAWS against the crap Milo was saying...that my dear GoldenEye is 1st/14the Amendment territory...Hell, even I reference the retribution of the non-state actors "the internet" as being fully capable of delivering retribution acknowledging that Free Speech does not mean Free from Consequences in society at large

 

[Permanently A]

The polio vaccine was unneeded. Wowee. What an idiot.

 

[Zero315]

Oh please there are more than enough people out there who hate men who date way younger women on both sides of the political spectrum.

People made celebrities out of Anna Nicole Smith, Hugh Hefner and the Bunnies. No one cares about older men dating younger women.

 

[ColdPizza]

I'll never get attitudes to free speech. Why is that the goal above all else? Maybe it comes from treating old legal documents like religious texts.

Free speech is also used as something to hide behind when you're trying oppress minorities and other vulnerable groups. Other first world nations set reasonable limits on free speech without becoming police states. And, in fact, they tend to put far smaller percentages of their own populations behind bar while they do it. Why can't America figure that out?

Do you have any examples of these nations?

 

[cromofo]

you're (and nobody else for that matter) not going to intentionally and actively spur any change on it as a non practitioner. That has to come from within.

And importantly, direct your energy to where you do have an obligation to solve, which is American/West provocation and disruption of Islamic countries. That is a key element that is missing from many discussions on Islam.

This would be a good start.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I mean, I guess? I don't follow celeb culture but there certainly isn't some massive backlash against Clooney.

Either Mahar lives in some weird ass fantasy land (which, I mean, is possible considering his other moronic views) or he's got some extreme shit in the back of his head he knows is ACTUALLY unforgivable.

I just think he wants to claim victimhood.

 

[marrec]

People made celebrities out of Anna Nicole Smith, Hugh Hefner and the Bunnies. No one cares about older men dating younger women.

Hugh Hefner is UNFORGIVEN for dating younger women!!!

Wait, no...

Hmm, Mahar must be talking about something else I guess.

I just think he wants to claim victimhood.

Totally possible. The way it reads though, there are very recognizable talking points in there.

 

[Cryoteck]

I'm not going to defend Maher's racist and islamophobic views, but what is the reasoning for going out of our way to try to inflict significant damage to someone's life thinking that will convince people we are right? This tactic is self defeating and serves only to rally the far right into action while we on the left splinter and argues amongst ourselves. The tactics that gave us results was seeking out ignorance and remedying it with education. It took effort and time but it worked and the country moved forward. This new tactic of trying to destroy someone's life for speaking or doing something ignorant is immediately gratifying, but causes damage to the movement as a whole. Instead of educating people and genuinely convincing them all this tactic does is scare people into public submission with their original views intact. I think we need to return to the previously successful tactic of educating people and legitimately changing their views rather than using ancient right wing scare tactics.

/TLDR: Our views are right, but our tactics are not.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Do you have any examples of these nations?

Amsterdam and the Netherlands in general.

 

[JasonUresti]

Been baffled for years as to why anyone cares what a mildly intelligent,frequently uninformed mediocre comedian has to say about political and moral issues.

Maher started out smug but seemed to have some sense of his significant limitations in these discussions, but years of success and people puffing him up have caused him to steadily fly further and further up his own ass. This ego driven self colonoscopy has progressed to the point that Maher flipped himself inside out and now all his shoddy thinking, bad jokes, and arrogantly absolute belief in his own correctness pass to us directly.

 

[Skinny Pete]

Never cared for Maher. He always came of as a smarmy prick. Oliver is the real talent at HBO.

 

[Androidsleeps]

Let John Stewart take over

That would be perfect.
I'm getting tired of Maher's bullshit. He's been on a downward spiral for like a year now.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Do you have any examples of these nations?

Seriously?

Canada
UK
Most if not all of the EU.

 

[Verelios]

Fuck off Maher

 

[B-Dubs]

Seriously?

Canada
UK
Most if not all of the EU.

Germany is the biggest example. They don't allow Nazi shit at all.

 

[Deepwater]

I'm not going to defend Maher's racist and islamophobic views, but what is the reasoning for going out of our way to try to inflict significant damage to someone's life thinking that will convince people we are right? This tactic is self defeating and serves only to rally the far right into action while we on the left splinter and argues amongst ourselves. The tactics that gave us results was seeking out ignorance and remedying it with education. It took effort and time but it worked and the country moved forward. This new tactic of trying to destroy someone's life for speaking or doing something ignorant is immediately gratifying, but causes damage to the movement as a whole. Instead of educating people and genuinely convincing them all this tactic does is scare people into public submission with their original views intact. I think we need to return to the previously successful tactic of educating people and legitimately changing their views rather than using ancient right wing scare tactics.

/TLDR: Our views are right, but our tactics are not.

It's hard for privileged people to conceptualize that attitudes and beliefs contribute to violence. This is what Maher did when he let Milo spout his transphobia.

People's values and beliefs do not exist in a vacuum, they affect how we interact with people everyday. Some of those values and beliefs, when given a platform and/or not denounced, contribute to violence and tangible harm against groups of people.

Don't take this as an indictment on you, but please try to understand that for many people it's not just a difference of opinions.

 

[fantomena]

Let John Stewart take over

Well, first of all, Stewart already declined a show with HBO. Second of all, Real Time is under full (?) creative control of Maher. It's his show, so if he get's fired or retires, Real Time will most likely be taken down. Maher is Real Time wherever people like it or not and it seems like HBO knows that.

Still though, I have no idea how much power and creative control HBO has over their shows like Real Time and John Oliver's Late Night.

HBO's usual reactions to Real Time storms are like ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[excelsiorlef]

Germany is the biggest example. They don't allow Nazi shit at all.

Yeah I just didn't feel like writing them all out.

Fun fact Westboro Baptist Church is banned from coming to Canada.

 

[HStallion]

I'm not going to defend Maher's racist and islamophobic views, but what is the reasoning for going out of our way to try to inflict significant damage to someone's life thinking that will convince people we are right? This tactic is self defeating and serves only to rally the far right into action while we on the left splinter and argues amongst ourselves. The tactics that gave us results was seeking out ignorance and remedying it with education. It took effort and time but it worked and the country moved forward. This new tactic of trying to destroy someone's life for speaking or doing something ignorant is immediately gratifying, but causes damage to the movement as a whole. Instead of educating people and genuinely convincing them all this tactic does is scare people into public submission with their original views intact. I think we need to return to the previously successful tactic of educating people and legitimately changing their views rather than using ancient right wing scare tactics.

/TLDR: Our views are right, but our tactics are not.

Maher wants to have Milo on again. A man whose sole goal seems to be making life a nightmare for others. We aren't cool with that and thus we aren't cool with Maher giving such views a platform, especially unchallenged like what happened last time.

 

[Trokil]

Germany is the biggest example. They don't allow Nazi shit at all.

Certain things are forbidden, but there are still movements like Pegida, the NPD or the AfD and in certain parts of Germany Neo-Nazis still bully mayors out of towns without any repercussions from the state. So it is not that easy.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

What an asshole

 

[Toxi]

Have some of you lost your fucking minds?

Why are people who are fine with Milo getting on our talk shows under the impression that he's going on them because he has an interest in being swayed? Why do people think Milo is in any way not doing this in order to spread his brand of bullshit and/or earn more money? Why do you guys keep thinking these kinds of people are sincere?

This is how the right keeps taking advantage of us.

Basically.

They want to be "debated", because they know exposure benefits them more than any counterargument can harm them. And Maher doesn't even bother with the counterargument.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Maher wants to have Milo on again. A man whose sole goal seems to be making life a nightmare for others. We aren't cool with that and thus we aren't cool with Maher giving such views a platform, especially unchallenged like what happened last time.

If anything, Milo deserves to have his life destroyed after he has spent so much time destroying the lives of others.

 

[curiouscharles]

wow, it's never been as obvious that he'a a complete idiot until now.

he obviously discovered that being a contrarian made him look smart [probably in early university / late high school, as is typically the case], and then just never evolved past that.

get him off the air, waste of earth resources.

 

[GurgleBot20]

I think 12 Angry Men would be a more powerful film if that one scene involved the 11 jurors having a calm reasonable debate with the wildly shouting racist juror instead of turning their back on him.

 

[L Thammy]

Certain things are forbidden, but there are still movements like Pegida, the NPD or the AfD and in certain parts of Germany Neo-Nazis still bully mayors out of towns without any repercussions from the state. So it is not that easy.

Did anyone say it was going to be easy? The fact that providing reasonable limits isn't a cure-all doesn't mean that the apotheosis of free speech is a good thing.

 

[The Artisan]

i have a feeling this thread might get locked

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

I only know him for Religulous. And even though I'm an atheist I thought he was a complete asshole in that film.
So yeah, his dumb views aren't surprising.

 

[TestOfTide]

It's amazing to know that we've come to the point where the "free speech" defenders are saying it's okay to give a pedophilia apologist a platform.

Like, congrats on literally managing to have worse standards than not just normal people, not just CPAC,


No, by saying it's okay to give Milo a platform, "free speech" defenders are showing they have WORSE standards than fucking Breitbart, who AT THE BARE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL MINIMUM were willing to not give a platform to a guy who defends pedophilia.

I didn't think that shit was possible but you managed to be more extremist in your love for "free speech" than a website that is known for defending blatant white supremacists.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Also Milo has basically be neutralized... Maher literally is trying to undo that... because he thinks the way Milo upsets folk is funny.

Read his comments. He wants to help Milo recover from his scandal.

How fucked up is that

 

[Slayven]

It's amazing to know that we've come to the point where the "free speech" defenders are saying it's okay to give a pedophilia apologist a platform.

Like, congrats on literally managing to have worse standards than not just normal people, not just CPAC,


No, by saying it's okay to give Milo a platform, "free speech" defenders are showing they have WORSE standards than fucking Breitbart, who AT THE BARE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL MINIMUM were willing to not give a platform to a guy who defends pedophilia.

I didn't think that shit was possible but you managed to be more extremist in your love for "free speech" than a website that is known for defending blatant white supremacists.

Also Milo has basically be neutralized... Maher literally is trying to undo that... because he thinks the way Milo upsets folk is funny.

Read his comments. He wants to help Milo recover from his scandal.

How fucked up is that

All fun and games when you don't have anything on the line

 

[excelsiorlef]

All fun and games when you don't have anything on the line

Yep.

Maher gets to be proud of all those right wing bigot careers he's launched because it ain't his people who they end up targeting.

 

[Cryoteck]

It's hard for privileged people to conceptualize that attitudes and beliefs contribute to violence. This is what Maher did when he let Milo spout his transphobia.

People's values and beliefs do not exist in a vacuum, they affect how we interact with people everyday. Some of those values and beliefs, when given a platform and/or not denounced, contribute to violence and tangible harm against groups of people.

Don't take this as an indictment on you, but please try to understand that for many people it's not just a difference of opinions.

True, I have never been afraid of violence towards myself based on my place in society and therefore I have to learn from others who have a different perspective.

My issue is that these scare tactics that we have been using have instigated a backlash that has emboldened the right wing which has led to the rise of Trumpism and the measurable increase in violence against minorities.

As for MIlo, he is NOT a case of ignorance, but an undeniable case of maliciousness. Ignorance can be cured but maliciousness can not and I agree that people like him need to be denounced as much as possible at every turn.

But taking steps to silence their awful views allows people like Milo to craft a narrative that we are silencing him because he speaks the "truth", rather than because his views instigate violence against others.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Absolutely Not. Free Speech is Free Speech is Free Speech. What part of FREE is not clear?

Besides, the way social media works now...retribution is swift and people can't run from that speech.

You don't know what free speech is.

 

[Don'tBeWeird]

The man is a cunt.