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Assassin's Creed Origins E3 hands on gameplay videos and impressions are going up

Yep, the only part that really worries me is the high health pool of the arena boss. That fight doesn't look fun, just repetitive. And so long as the game still allows me to play as an assassin, avoiding combat and stealth one-shot assassinating every target in the game (outside the arena of course, since melee makes sense there) provided I put in the effort to close the gap to the target without being detected, I'm happy with this.

Right now I'm a little worried they might love the combat system so much they force it on us regularly for "boss fights". Same way they used to love forcing tailing and escort missions on us.

Yea, and I would completely agree with that. Hopefully they're still fine tuning this, or maybe the weapon level and boss level didn't quite match each other or something. I don't mind the boss taking awhile to defeat but he should change up his tactics as his health drops and employ different attacks. There's nothing wrong with a more engaging combat system...as long as it's engaging haha, nothing worse than just dodge hitting mindlessly for 5 minutes. At least the arena is a good environmet variable, I did see one demo where the player was trying to lure him into the rotating traps to get him down quicker and open him up to attacks.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the new combat. I'm still highly sceptical of it! Gating assassinations may or may not be a good idea, and until we've played the game I guess we won't know. It doesn't sound appealing though, especially after Breath of the Wild was so beloved for allowing players to go anywhere, do anything, at any time. Level gated difficulty certainly isn't a popular hallmark of open world games these days.

That said, I'm pleased to see combat is a lot tougher and requires more strategy in this game. If there's ever a moment that I'm forced into this combat system against an assassination target, I'll agree that it's going against the core principles of the series. So long as it remains Plan B in assassination strategies (or Plan A for players that enjoy it enough, sure) then I'll be happy. It's certainly avoiding Brotherhood's issues of the combat being so damn easy and fast that it made more sense than stealth though.
I'm not against tougher combat but I don't think combat in the series was so bad it had to be discarded. There have always been issues with press a for awesome but other games have shown you can have engaging gameplay with similar combat and a challenge as well. A big issue I had with Syndicate for instance was that no matter how many people I slaughtered new policemen / gang members wouldn't show up, you literally could brute force through the game with no issues.
 

Gradly

Member
Is there any great look at the menu?

Also are we gonna able to change the dress and look like previous assassins games, I don't wanna dress such an ancient clothes lol
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Jesus fuck, Ubisoft. Was that really necessary...? Damn. Well, at least now I'm prepared for when I play the game myself.
Yea, welp, fuck the Crocodile. :|

Does this have an online component?
Some form but they didn't elaborate.

Is there any great look at the menu?

Also are we gonna able to change the dress and look like previous assassins games, I don't wanna dress such an ancient clothes lol
Legacy outfits have been confirmed yes.
 

Monocle

Member
Yet he is without doubt the reason AC exists. 1 and 2 were his vision, and everything since then has been built on his vision. I'm just pointing out that it's very bold to claim that the chain-kill system is "what AC was about", when for many fans of the series it was the worst part of the series post-Desilets. Chain-killing required no skill, actively discouraged stealth and escape, and was more about being a warrior than an assassin. It was completely antithetical to the series' core design principles.
So what, it gave players who favored the direct approach an enjoyable system to work with. Stealth kills were still a thing.

If you want to talk about core design principles, AC1's combat was so undercooked, and yet the game devoted ample time to training the player in direct confrontations. AC2 put a similar emphasis on direct combat, adding more options and somewhat improved base mechanics. So when you actually go back and look at the original games, it's clear that players were intended to alternate between stealthy and direct approaches.

Bold statement. I've played since the very first game and that chain-kill gameplay in the gif is the moment the series starting going downhill to me. That's nothing to do with assassination, and genuinely made escaping after an assassination pointless. It was far faster to stand and fight an entire army, just like in this gif, because as soon as you counter kill one of them, you mash X to victory until you have an army of corpses at your feet and no one left to pursue you. I called out Alex Hutchinson on this exact problem with the series during an AC3 Q&A session, and as a fan of the series who appreciates AC games for what they were (Patrice Desilet's vision) I was so damn happy when this nonsense was removed from the games in Unity.
Unity's combat is clunky. It was a regression.
 

Coffinhal

Member
Yet he is without doubt the reason AC exists. 1 and 2 were his vision, and everything since then has been built on his vision. I'm just pointing out that it's very bold to claim that the chain-kill system is "what AC was about", when for many fans of the series it was the worst part of the series post-Desilets. Chain-killing required no skill, actively discouraged stealth and escape, and was more about being a warrior than an assassin. It was completely antithetical to the series' core design principles.

Seems bold to say that too. The question of the authorship* of the first two episodes would be a very interesting ones but we clearly lack the data required to analyze who had the creative power throughout the two projects. So far it's too opaque to really know and the mystification/storytelling around his "vision"after he was fired doesn't clear the fog - did he really had the weight he said he had ?
*it's standard for movie production in sociological studies but I don't know if video games had that kind of research done
 
Unity's combat is clunky. It was a regression.

Yep, without doubt an awful combat system, and probably the least fun of the entire series. But chain killing was a terrible system that detracted from the core game mechanics. Yes, you could refuse to use it. But that's like telling Skyrim players who hate quest markers that they can just turn them off. It's a core part of the game design and you will end up having to use it.

I'm not saying the animation-heavy focus of previous AC games was bad. I'm just saying the chain kill system was. Counter one single attack and then mash X to victory isn't satisfying, isn't challenging, and isn't thematic.
 
When it comes to traversal, combat and stealth I'm not even sure whether AC's creators have a clear focus on what they're making. Traversal is no longer something that requires attention, stealth appears unchanged except for the new drone eagle and combat changes entirely game to game, but you're always able to go toe to toe with armies of soldiers.

You see this in Wildlands too - In an effort to appeal to both the hardcore Ghost Recon crowd and those who want Just Cause 80's action movie chaos, they end up with a hodge podge of a game that doesn't hit either mark.

Is this a stealth game?

Is this a melee combat game?

What is the core of AC now? Where are the core gameplay wrinkles and risk/reward found? Or is the idea just to smooth out all the edges and make any approach viable and without much challenge? Press X for awesome while clambering across historic monuments?

I guess I'm interested to know their vision in terms of core gameplay. What separates AC from their other games - or is it just setting? Because after Wildlands I don't see this schizophrenic vision that's meant to appeal to everyone working out all that well. With them even further streamlining traversal and pushing hard on the RPG leveling and loot angle, I've honestly got no idea what they're going for.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
When it comes to traversal, combat and stealth I'm not even sure whether AC's creators have a clear focus on what they're making. Traversal is no longer something that requires attention, stealth appears unchanged except for the new drone eagle and combat changes entirely game to game, but you're always able to go toe to toe with armies of soldiers.

You see this in Wildlands too - In an effort to appeal to both the hardcore Ghost Recon crowd and those who want Just Cause 80's action movie chaos, they end up with a hodge podge of a game that doesn't hit either mark.

Is this a stealth game?

Is this a melee combat game?
It's a systemic open world RPG game with a heavy focus on stealth elements.

What is the core of AC now? Where are the core gameplay wrinkles and risk/reward found? Or is the idea just to smooth out all the edges and make any approach viable and without much challenge? Press X for awesome while clambering across historic monuments?
Player expression is the core of AC now. By allowing the player to play with the systems to see what happens it leads to a sense of storytelling not unlike something like BOTW or WD2 where the player is able to have a unique gameplay experience, even with the small slices at this e3 many players chose different routes and tactics. And since the game still goes on largely without the player, there's a bunch of possibilities on what can happen without the player's input. For a stealth game this is actually quite good as a concept, take or instance how MGSV technically had a push for systemic elements, but didn't have all the pieces in order to truly achieve that goal, for instance whenever you went to capture or kill a target, they'd ALWAYS be in the exact same place because the world revolves around the player. You could get the same objective in this game, and since the characters exist in the world independent of the player, that target could end up being killed by bandits or animals. You and another player could be sailing in the same lake, and you could be the unlucky one to have your boat destroyed by a hungry crocodile while he/she/they just have a peaceful time. It's for the sake of players being able to craft their own stories with their time during the game on top of playing through the quests and such. Again the only other game where this really happens is Zelda, MGSV, and to a lesser extent WD2. And they don't push it as far in the direction that this one is going for. That's what the most exciting element of this game to me, is that not only am I able to express myself, but the world itself is also incredibly expressive due to being a mix of interlinked systems that interact with one another. There's also the improvements they've made to the guard AI that I find myself getting excited about, in one of the videos I saw that if a guard sees an projectile kill another guard, but doesn't see where it came from, aka you, that guard won't just stand there looking around like "huh what happened" and check the body, it will be in an alert state and find cover. Little nuances like that that've been missing in this series are what makes this game super exciting for me.

I guess I'm interested to know their vision in terms of core gameplay. What separates AC from their other games - or is it just setting? Because after Wildlands I don't see this schizophrenic vision that's meant to appeal to everyone working out all that well. With them even further streamlining traversal and pushing hard on the RPG leveling and loot angle, I've honestly got no idea what they're going for.
Refer to my text above as this is the furthest they've ever pushed in this direction.
 

I know it's alpha but lol there's a bunch of jank. He gets caught on an edge a couple seconds prior too
BPQxDh.gif
 
I think I just discovered a new awesome channel. I love these guys already: 8 ways Origins break the rules of traditional Assassins Creed



My thinking:

Embracing Souls combat with things like a fixed 3d camera in combat with things like timed sidestepping is a good move. But I have to say- There is something about the combat animations that looks off. It doesn't look polished, or like that there is a nice seamless transistion between side stepping/countering/blocking with a counter attack. It feels like the animation is speed up significantly, when pressing the attack button at the right time.

The end result is that the character attack unnaturally fast.

If they where going to do something like this, I'd have suggested them move towards ultra-slow-mo-/ultra fast speed up, like the combat cinematography you saw in 300. But this requires a lot of frames per second (on film, don't know if the same limitations would exist for games). I believe the cameras shot 150 fps. This allowed 300 to have this insanely smooth slow mo, as well as really smooth speed up.




But I think this change in direction to combat is warranted. I hope it won't end like Warrior Within. If you recall, Sands of Time was a terrific game, but the weak link was the combat which was serviceable.
When they made Warrior Within they tried to fix the combat, but a lot of other parts of the game broke down. PoP has since then had many awkward transistions; PoP 2008 is an incredible game, but the combat is abysmal. And so it is with Splinter Cell and Assassins Creed.
Combat never has been the strong suite of Ubisoft games, and I wonder why.

Because if you've ever played all the AC games back to back (I played AC1, AC2, Brohood, Rev, 3, BF, Unity, Rogue, Syndicate realtively close to one another) you can see the evolution of the combat, but the problems remain the same.


AC always has had a dumb AI. One that "forgets" the player. Later games increased "increased alert" but this has always been a buzywork and largely meh feature that didnt felt real.
AC2 gave us weapons pickable weapons, Bro/Rev tried to make combat tighter, introduced ranged mechanics, threw harder enemies at you- but the problems persisted.

BF was such a awkward game combat wise due to having to fight people in weird places like on masts, or on boats where you struggled with the camera and basic animations, just jumping of ledges doing insta and double insta kill by jumping off a ledge and pressing "X to win" style context sensitive attacks.

The problem has always been that AC didn't have deep gameplay. The combat or parkour didn't have enough depth for you to truly get good at. You can get really good at Dark Souls once you understand the rhythm of every enemy. That is what makes it fun. You gradually become better, and the repetitiveness is reduced by enemies requiring vastly different approaches.
You just never had that in AC. Even if you take something like Witcher 3 which has combat that is more serviceable, even that game has a skill level where you're much better at rolling, dodging, potioning, bomb throwing, crossbow aiming later in the game than you are in the beginning.
 
I personally found the combat to be unresponsive, clunky and unsatisfying. Managed to play the game for a good 30 mins and was not impressed at all. It did look pretty on a 4K screen though.
 
So what, it gave players who favored the direct approach an enjoyable system to work with. Stealth kills were still a thing.

If you want to talk about core design principles, AC1's combat was so undercooked, and yet the game devoted ample time to training the player in direct confrontations. AC2 put a similar emphasis on direct combat, adding more options and somewhat improved base mechanics. So when you actually go back and look at the original games, it's clear that players were intended to alternate between stealthy and direct approaches.


Unity's combat is clunky. It was a regression.

I can't wait for this game to release. I will start streaming and really upload vids for maybe the first time in a serious way. People thinking you can't absolutely wreck shit combat wise in this game or something? Today at E3 I hopped onto a boat and fought and slaughtered 3 different enemies all coming at me simultaneously. It just requires more skill than the previous AC games, and you use the light attack combined with the heavier attack to chain together your attacks properly. And you can even mix in the shield into your attacks when you use the shield toggle button also.

You get yourself into the right position depending on who or how many enemies you're facing and then you go to work. If you're fighting too many, you naturally don't get too trigger happy on attacking, as you'll be left open for another enemy. Combat in this game emphasises more than ever REALLY watching your opponents and reacting in enough time to make your player have a chance. It isn't like previous AC games where no matter what position your character was in, the counter button would always bail him out of any situation. Not so in this new game based on what I've played. In this game the counter button is using your shield at the right time or dodging out the way in anticipation of the opponent's attack.

So even though the stealth approach rules the day, you can still wreck shit in this game and the finishing moves present in previous games are still here, but perhaps even more impressive. I've finished enemies in all kinds of amazing ways.
 
Most of the bitching about the combat is because people are comparing this to game like Dark Souls/Bloodborne yet they ignore to compare it against the previous AC games. This combat system is by far superior, even though you can dodge/slide out of the way easily.

There's still an option to use stealth in the most viable way, but at least you aren't basically using the mechanic of; 'Wait for the animation of an enemy attacking, counter. BRUTAL KILL'
 
Most of the bitching about the combat is because people are comparing this to game like Dark Souls/Bloodborne yet they ignore to compare it against the previous AC games. This combat system is by far superior, even though you can dodge/slide out of the way easily.

There's still an option to use stealth in the most viable way, but at least you aren't basically using the mechanic of; 'Wait for the animation of an enemy attacking, counter. BRUTAL KILL'

Exactly, and then you have skill upgrades like chain assassination where when you assassinate one enemy you can immediately kill another right away. Anyway, I think the combat is pretty damn good. People just have to work harder to be good at it. That's not a bad thing imo.
 
Exactly, and then you have skill upgrades like chain assassination where when you assassinate one enemy you can immediately kill another right away. Anyway, I think the combat is pretty damn good. People just have to work harder to be good at it. That's not a bad thing imo.
My issues is that it doesn't seem very Assassin-y. Trading blows while locked onto single enemies and measured strikes is like the last thing I'd expect an assassin to be doing; yes, it's a reconstruction into a more aRPG form, but I feel it sacrifices a lot of what made fighting as an assassin satisfying. But then again my favorite combat in the series is AC3 aping Arkham's freeflow, so that kind of tells you what I prefer with fighting in this
 

Harlequin

Member
The former eagle vision (in the games) was already magic or to be precise :


This game being set at the origins of the Assassins Brotherhood it makes sense that such training might not have been done yet, meaning that there was no way to awaken your dormant eagle vision. I'm confident the game will give some answer to that (Horus gives you a power to see through the eagle?) Doesn't seem less or more magical than the standard eagle vision. (I understand what you meant though)

If anything, wouldn't being able to "upgrade" him make him feel more mechanical :p?
 

DrunkDan

Member
Watching that video is the first time I've noticed that he has the same scar on his lip that Altair/Ezio/Desmond have.

A nod to the other games or perhaps something a little more?
 

sjay1994

Member
I don't know what to think of this game tbh.

Its both the same and completely different.

I just feel like what they added was stuff I didn't want from this series.

I wanted there to be more to the stealth. Instead it looks like they just kept what they had from previous games, and most of the effort went into the combat and I don't think what they did panned out.
 
Speaking as a huge AC fan (day one'd and completed all of the main ones) I'm really disappointed with the direction they have gone.

Loot, RPG ranking, Dark Souls combat when you're meant to be an assassin just seem dumb to me. If I sneak up on someone they should be up shit creak not a health sponge.

I know AC combat can feel easy but they should be balancing that by making different enemies require different approaches (think Arkham Knight) not throwing numbers above their heads so a dude that looks exactly the same as a level one can fuck you up if you're 3 levels below them.

Unless something drastically changes before release then I fear the series is dead to me. And to think all Ubi really had to do was put it in a decent setting, make the story make some kind of sense again and release a game that performed well from day one, but nope they done fucked it by over designing everything.
 
My issues is that it doesn't seem very Assassin-y. Trading blows while locked onto single enemies and measured strikes is like the last thing I'd expect an assassin to be doing; yes, it's a reconstruction into a more aRPG form, but I feel it sacrifices a lot of what made fighting as an assassin satisfying. But then again my favorite combat in the series is AC3 aping Arkham's freeflow, so that kind of tells you what I prefer with fighting in this

Good news then, because that unnatural speed is the player mashing the light attack button (right bumper) and the right trigger. you can absolutely fight at a slower rate if you wish to make the combat look more realistic and weighty. Also, I've switched between attacking multiple enemies fairly fine. Even though I'm damn good with the combat, I still don't fully comprehend the lock on system yet. I know kinda how to use it, but there are some things that confuse me still. A ubi dev was telling me today at E3, but I was so focused on rushing to get into fights that I didn't really take in everything he was telling me about the combat system.


And btw, sneaking up on people in this game is still insta kill. I don't know for more important/stronger characters, but it's definitely been that way for many of them.
 
And btw, sneaking up on people in this game is still insta kill. I don't know for more important/stronger characters, but it's definitely been that way for many of them.

Well that's a bit of good news at least.

Can I ask if there is a counter system at all or is it just dodging now?

I've seen a video where a fight breaks out in a small room and when the enemy swings rather than blocking and countering the player just side steps like mad left and right clipping through the walls and furniture. It just looks dumb as all hell but I'm hoping that's just the player.

Also weapon loot. Do the weapons at least appear different or does sword 2 do more damage than identical looking sword 1 because game says so?
 

sjay1994

Member
Speaking as a huge AC fan (day one'd and completed all of the main ones) I'm really disappointed with the direction they have gone.

Loot, RPG ranking, Dark Souls combat when you're meant to be an assassin just seem dumb to me. If I sneak up on someone they should be up shit creak not a health sponge.

I know AC combat can feel easy but they should be balancing that by making different enemies require different approaches (think Arkham Knight) not throwing numbers above their heads so a dude that looks exactly the same as a level one can fuck you up if you're 3 levels below them.

Unless something drastically changes before release then I fear the series is dead to me. And to think all Ubi really had to do was put it in a decent setting, make the story make some kind of sense again and release a game that performed well from day one, but nope they done fucked it by over designing everything.

Yeah, I think I am in the same boat.

There is some really cool stuff in this game, but the core just looks incredibly unappealing to me.
 
If anything, wouldn't being able to "upgrade" him make him feel more mechanical :p?

I don't think you're 'upgrading' the eagle here, but 'training' him instead.

I'm not sure how easy it is to train one in real life, but it's a video game after all.

And btw, sneaking up on people in this game is still insta kill. I don't know for more important/stronger characters, but it's definitely been that way for many of them.

Is there no confirmation on that yet? How does the level difference and assassinate work in Origins?

If you find enemies 5 levels above you and you can't assassinate them, that would be a bummer. But in an open world and exploration game like this, I think most people will end up over-leveling the content most of the time anyway. Unless if you're focusing on main quest only.
 
So have they finally solved the series' reliance on the no-fail shadowing a slow NPC spouting exposition trope?

Can I use my eagle to eavesdrop or just catch the information if I'm in the right place at the right time? Did they axe this storytelling device entirely?
 

sjay1994

Member
I don't think you're 'upgrading' the eagle here, but 'training' him instead.

I'm not sure how easy it is to train one in real life, but it's a video game after all.



Is there no confirmation on that yet? How does the level difference and assassinate work in Origins?

If you find enemies 5 levels above you and you can't assassinate them, that would be a bummer. But in an open world and exploration game like this, I think most people will end up over-leveling the content most of the time anyway. Unless if you're focusing on main quest only.

They've said that if you are underleveled you can't one shot enemies with the hidden blade.

Honestly, the fact stealth seems completely untouched is probably my biggest disappointment.

I was hoping for MGSV levels of variability in stealth with a witcher 3 esque quest system.
 
They've said that if you are underleveled you can't one shot enemies with the hidden blade.

Honestly, the fact stealth seems completely untouched is probably my biggest disappointment.

I was hoping for MGSV levels of variability in stealth with a witcher 3 esque quest system.

Even by one level?

I guess I need to rewatch some of the videos to make sure. From what I remember, the player could assassinate the regular enemy and the captains (the ones with gold icon above their head) just fine. Though I'm not sure about the player's level in the video.
 
Speaking as a huge AC fan (day one'd and completed all of the main ones) I'm really disappointed with the direction they have gone.

Loot, RPG ranking, Dark Souls combat when you're meant to be an assassin just seem dumb to me. If I sneak up on someone they should be up shit creak not a health sponge.

I know AC combat can feel easy but they should be balancing that by making different enemies require different approaches (think Arkham Knight) not throwing numbers above their heads so a dude that looks exactly the same as a level one can fuck you up if you're 3 levels below them.

Unless something drastically changes before release then I fear the series is dead to me. And to think all Ubi really had to do was put it in a decent setting, make the story make some kind of sense again and release a game that performed well from day one, but nope they done fucked it by over designing everything.
That's where I stand too.
 

valkyre

Member
Are they going to improve the walking/running animation of the main character?

Climbing is fine but walking seems very awkward, especially on uneven terrain... also the combat movement is very rough, i mean look at the legs... most of the time they do their "own thing" or something...
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Are they going to improve the walking/running animation of the main character?

Climbing is fine but walking seems very awkward, especially on uneven terrain... also the combat movement is very rough, i mean look at the legs... most of the time they do their "own thing" or something...
This is an older build and AC always gets animation improvements over the summer.
 

Ashtar

Member
So have they finally solved the series' reliance on the no-fail shadowing a slow NPC spouting exposition trope?

Can I use my eagle to eavesdrop or just catch the information if I'm in the right place at the right time? Did they axe this storytelling device entirely?
You mean walk and talk sequences? Or tailing sequences?
 

ISee

Member
I kind of like it, but I'm also a sucker for AC games (for whatever reason). The game obviously needs a lot of polish though. If the stories (real world/ancient times) are good I'm in.
 
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