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[GHG]

Why late, they'll arrive just in time for MS' next console launch.


Seriously, does anyone really expect that MS of all companies heavily invests into exclusive games for a console right at the end of its life cycle?!

There's nothing wrong with investing in first party at the end of a consoles life cycle as long as that carries through to the next generation and years beyond. These things take time, but it's not like Microsoft have been lacking in time, this isn't their first rodeo.

As far as I'm concerned, what we are seeing now is a result of years of neglect and bad decisions. The chickens have come to roost now. Them dropping everything to invest heavily in Kinect was the worst thing they could have done last gen.

A more balanced approach is needed, it's ok to try new things and support new hardware, but you've also got to continue to support traditional methods of gaming in a big way since that's your bread and butter. What they did last gen would be the equivalent of Sony right now saying "right, everybody stop what you're doing, no more exclusive games unless it's VR". You're setting yourself up for disaster if it doesn't go well.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

No one is saying they don't have games in production,that would be lunancy , they are questioning what they are and why such a lengthy period of being revealed. I still don't get the hesitation since what happened with Scalebound, first party platforms have cancelled announced games before, Sony did it a few times last generation and Microsoft did too, they left it quite late with a game called Frame City Killer.

The future games he talks about, are they mostly games we expect such as Gears 5, the next Halo and probably the next Forza Horizon? Or is there something being developed by one of their studios or a new studio that is the surprise some fans want to see happen?

 

[oldergamer]

Show us or shut up Phil. He's so full of shit.

obviously, you aren't a fan of honesty. knowing that you won't like my post.

 

[hawk2025]

I suppose I don't really get why announcing a game with a name, trailer, and developer for things that are years out is any worse than announcing "I just signed a bunch of games" for things that are years out.

The only real difference is that we don't know the name, haven't seen a trailer, and don't know the developer.

That's better how, exactly?

 

[Cranster]

How so considering their decline in sales. Game fatigue is quite real with MS 1st party

6 million in sales is more than just a "hardcore few" as you put it.

 

[Crayon]

There's a sucker born every minute.

 

[Servbot24]

I suppose I don't really get why announcing a game with a name, trailer, and developer for things that are years out is any worse than announcing "I just signed a bunch of games" for things that are years out.

The only real difference is that we don't know the name, haven't seen a trailer, and don't know the developer.

That's better how, exactly?

This wasn't an announcement. Spencer said that XBox will have games in the future. Somehow fans transform that into shocking and upsetting news.

 

[tapedeck]

Killer Instinct 4 on Scorpio/XboxNext confirmed.

 

[Skeeter49]

Wonder if one of them is a Marvel game.

 

[QuantumSquid]

all corporate spokespeople are full of shit to some degree.

i think phil is significantly less full of shit than a lot of other people of similar importance in the games industry.

 

[hawk2025]

This wasn't an announcement. Spencer said that XBox will have games in the future. Somehow fans transform that into shocking and upsetting news.

Let's look at the quote again:

"We are investing in new things, we signed things just recently that I thought, ‘Hey, from a PR standpoint it would be really easy for me to put a trailer on screen’, but then I know the game is not coming for another two and half or three years, so I didn’t want to do that"

He announced things without announcing anything. Again, as a practical matter, the only difference is that we haven't seen said trailer on the screen.

It's bread-and-butter doublespeak.

It's meant to make you speculate. It's meant to make you add "new signed games 2-3 years off" to stupid console wars lists, like so:

Killer Instinct 4 on Scorpio/XboxNext confirmed.

Wonder if one of them is a Marvel game.

That's more informative than a vague trailer with a name and a dev splash screen why?

 

[Shin]

Killer Instinct 4 on Scorpio/XboxNext confirmed.

Definitely would buy it, hopefully slightly different art style though.
Kinda miss the old look (they went a bit overboard with current KI).

 

[David___]

Wonder if one of them is a Marvel game.

Doubt it.

All their major studio's are locked to an IP.

At that point they'd be dealing with their 3rd party partners and you don't need MS to get to them if that's the case

 

[Nightengale]

I'll just say this.

1. Considering your platform/hardware team are totally separate from your first-party development team, the notion that you've been deprioritising games over hardware and features don't paint you in a good light. Also, most other publishers have been able to release hardware without compromising first-party development, so that's not a good excuse.

2. Of course you have unannounced games. No shit. 90% of every publisher have unannounced games that they are keeping for next year/subsequent year/etc. It is not uncommon for publishers to have one-off year every now and then, but you've had two consecutive off-years in terms of big AAA announcements and new AAA IPs, so it's rational to be concerned/annoyed.

3. Hearing you say 2-3 years off is a bit... worrying, because I feel like you're saying that next year's lineup will still be what is expected. Not that it's a bad thing, but it's still a long wait.

4. Another factor that makes me worried about your investment in global publishing is the fact that most of the developers you've signed after you've become head of Xbox are not developers that I see are making the 'next big AAA" game. If anything, I've seeing you invest more in AA developers to push into making AAA games, but what we need is a first-party game that is made by a studio not inferior in resources to 343 and Coalition.

 

[fleshrender]

Why late, they'll arrive just in time for MS' next console launch.


Seriously, does anyone really expect that MS of all companies heavily invests into exclusive games for a console right at the end of its life cycle?!

Well they just invested a tonne in Scorpio....

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

I suppose I don't really get why announcing a game with a name, trailer, and developer for things that are years out is any worse than announcing "I just signed a bunch of games" for things that are years out.

The only real difference is that we don't know the name, haven't seen a trailer, and don't know the developer.

That's better how, exactly?

Showing up at E3 2019 and shipping before E3 2020 >>>> showing up at E3 2017,18,19 and shipping in 2020.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

You're one of those that like game announcements that won't be ready for another 2-4yrs huh? Probably enjoy announcements for announcements too. lol

I'd personally rather the companies just hold the announcements until we're(at the most)half a year from release. See Bethesda with some of their biggest games.

Lol how about having any games to announce

 

[Skeeter49]

Doubt it.

All their major studio's are locked to an IP.

At that point they'd be dealing with their 3rd party partners and you don't need MS to get to them if that's the case

Do we know how big Coalition is?
Rare should be big enough to be doing more than Sea of Thieves.

 

[David___]

Showing up at E3 2019 and shipping before E3 2020 >>>> showing up at E3 2017,18,19 and shipping in 2020.

In both cases youre not getting a game for 3 years.

In one case you know jack shit what they have in the pipeline or whats planned

In the other case you'll know what they have cooking up and what to expect.

I still don't know why people are opposed to knowing things in advance.

 

[Macrotus]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but this thread reminded me of the following thread.

Phil Spencer: "Not a fan of marketing deals with exclusive content"
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1390622

 

[balohna]

I've been in a smaller private event where Phil spoke and he was extremely candid and genuine. Like, speaking about failures in the Xbox division and things he'd like to change, etc. Not gonna repeat it here because it was an NDA type situation, but the vibe I got is he wouldn't just lie in an interview to make people that read NeoGAF more interested in his console. He's a pretty straight-up dude.

 

[PeterLegend]

indie exclusives to xbox and pc? Sure I believe it.

Big AAA 3rd party exclusives? Eh i dunno about that, to ignore the PS user base would be lunacy. Microsoft has a lot of money to spend, Xbox on the other hand doesn't...

 

[digoutyoursoul]

I'll just say this.

1. Considering your platform/hardware team are totally separate from your first-party development team, the notion that you've been deprioritising games over hardware and features don't paint you in a good light. Also, most other publishers have been able to release hardware without compromising first-party development, so that's not a good excuse.

2. Of course you have unannounced games. No shit. 90% of every publisher have unannounced games that they are keeping for next year/subsequent year/etc. It is not uncommon for publishers to have one-off year every now and then, but you've had two consecutive off-years in terms of big AAA announcements and new AAA IPs, so it's rational to be concerned/annoyed.

3. Hearing you say 2-3 years off is a bit... worrying, because I feel like you're saying that next year's lineup will still be what is expected. Not that it's a bad thing, but it's still a long wait.

4. Another factor that makes me worried about your investment in global publishing is the fact that most of the developers you've signed after you've become head of Xbox are not developers that I see are making the 'next big AAA" game. If anything, I've seeing you invest more in AA developers to push into making AAA games, but what we need is a first-party game that is made by a studio not inferior in resources to 343 and Coalition.

Spot on

 

[Papo Swing]

I see two things I don't like about his statement.

First he admits they don't have big AAA games.

And second, are they unsure these new partnerships will pan out so they won't announce? Or they don't have anything, because if this new batch gets cancellations and fails it will look really bad for them.

 

[David___]

Do we know how big Coalition is?
Rare should be big enough to be doing more than Sea of Thieves.

Wiki has the Coalition at 200 from 2015. Probably more now.

Even then I don't see them dividing resources for different games considering how they(or at least MS) views them

The Coalition is a growing team of talented, creative, fun-loving professionals who are united in their passion for Gears of War. As a Microsoft first-party studio, we are dedicated to pushing the limits of interactive entertainment and taking Gears to new heights.

http://thecoalitionstudio.com/#About-Us

 

[digoutyoursoul]

I've been in a smaller private event where Phil spoke and he was extremely candid and genuine. Like, speaking about failures in the Xbox division and things he'd like to change, etc. Not gonna repeat it here because it was an NDA type situation, but the vibe I got is he wouldn't just lie in an interview to make people that read NeoGAF more interested in his console. He's a pretty straight-up dude.

Was this recent?

 

[Darknight]

Why late, they'll arrive just in time for MS' next console launch.


Seriously, does anyone really expect that MS of all companies heavily invests into exclusive games for a console right at the end of its life cycle?!

Well they should definitely not do what they with the 360 which if you remember they cut off all 1st party support when PS4/XB1 were starting to pick up release steam towards launch. Sony on the other hand had a killer PS3 support years towards PS4 launch. 2013 was crazy for PS3.

 

[Elandyll]

So you... don't think that the Xbox One will have exclusive games in 2-3 years? That's an interesting bet. I'm sure you've thought it out though.

Does it really matter right now to say that though? Without showing anything? (Even Nin showed a logo on Metroid 4)

A lot can happen in 2-3 years, and by then gen 9 will have started, and everybody from Sony to Nintendo and MS will have new stuff to show.

I also find interesting the "signing up of exclusives", instead of the focus on 1st party as promised last year or so.

And if he again signed temp exclusives from 3rd parties, going squarely against what he just said he was against​, can we THEN agree he is full of it?

 

[balohna]

Was this recent?

Past year or so. The topic wasn't Xbox failures, but he took questions from the audience and owned up to things that could have been better and things that didn't turn out how he had hoped. From questions that were pretty tame, too. He didn't try to deflect or use PR speak.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

In both cases youre not getting a game for 3 years.

In one case you know jack shit what they have in the pipeline or whats planned

In the other case you'll know what they have cooking up and what to expect.

I still don't know why people are opposed to knowing things in advance.

You really wanted him to get on stage with some CG trailer with a 2020 release date at the end? Nah man. I already lived through that cycle with Quantum Break. It was wack as hell to hear Sam Lake say coming in 2015 at Gamescom 2014 then a year later at Gamescom 2015 hear they delayed again to 2016. Just announce it when its ready. They'll have plenty of stuff to play between now and 2 years from now when its actually time to announce.

 

[wapplew]

You really wanted him to get on stage with some CG trailer with a 2020 release date at the end? Nah man. I already lived through that cycle with Quantum Break. It was wack as hell to hear Sam Lake say coming in 2015 at Gamescom 2014 then a year later at Gamescom 2015 hear they delayed again to 2016. Just announce it when its ready. They'll have plenty of stuff to play between now and 2 years from now when its actually time to announce.

What about wanted him to show game he sign 2-3 years ago? Unless they totally sign nothing for past couple years.

 

[jaypah]

Cool, if they look good whenever they're shown I'll play them. People make this hobby seem so hard when it's super easy lol.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Past year or so. The topic wasn't Xbox failures, but he took questions from the audience and owned up to things that could have been better and things that didn't turn out how he had hoped. From questions that were pretty tame, too. He didn't try to deflect or use PR speak.

Interesting, was it a type of Xbox fan fest thing or can't you say?

 

[balohna]

Interesting, was it a type of Xbox fan fest thing or can't you say?

Can't say, not open to public.

 

[KaoteK]

So these will be dropping around 2019 to 2020?

Right around the time a new gen will probably be starting?

Ok then.

 

[Norse]

Why?? Hes right... this E3 showed it.. Only show games coming out this year and early next year.. there's a trend..

Good. This is what I've been wanting for yrs now. Show the short term stuff at your conference. Save the 2-3 yr stuff for the next e3.

Doesn't mean you can't mention your big games that are a ways off, but short term stuff should be the bulk of your show. And maybe rethink when e3 is held. Maybe April or early October even. June doesn't work for me lol

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Can't say, not open to public.

Understood, thanks for the info anyway

 

[zackmorris]

If MS had huge unreleased exclusives already announced that we were already excited for, then I agree no need to rush to announcing more. But they don't, so at this point they should really be announcing anything they can.

Hell Sony has a crazy lag time between announce date and release on some of their big titles and it hasn't hurt them yet.

 

[AudioEppa]

The thing about Xbox having exclusives. As time goes on more n more people will discover that they can just get those games on PC without needing their box. Sony and Nintendo are in a different position because in order to experience the type of games they produce, you can only get it in one place. As of right now.

I know the discussion around PC gaming is that it's difficult to master for some people, or they don't associate it with easy comfort like a console. But I personally feel like at some point those people are gonna get pass that mindset.

And this could be considered a stupid business move. But instead of creating a powerful home console with a high risk of not succeeding. Microsoft should have turned the Xbox division into multiple development studios for PC only. Like how Rockstar is. It would be like Xbox Seattle, Xbox LA, you get the idea. Also be a publisher for devs making AA and Indie titles.

They can still sell controllers because they work on PC.

I bet games like Halo would benefit if it's eSports moved to PC.

 

[spanks]

"Signed" makes it sound like just some more outsourced IPs like Ryse and Sunset Overdrive. Which is okay, but what happens when those become a success? Let the actual talent move on to a different platform using the experience they gained on your game (a la Insomniac, Playground), and then build copy-cat factory studios that will never reach the heights of the creators (a la 343, Coalition)?

Granted building new studios is hard, but there are other ways. Sony didn't create Naughty Dog after all.

Here's some things you could do:

Expand Rare, have them become your Japan Studios (multiple projects, hardware support)

Acquire A4, have them become your Guerilla Games
Acquire IO Interactive, have them become your Santa Monica
Acquire Remedy, have them become your Naughty Dog
Acquire Playground Games, have them become your Liverpool Studios
Acquire People Can Fly, have them become your Quantic Dreams

Add another team to Coalition
Add another team to 343

Whatever you do PLEASE don't rely on outsourcing for new IP.

 

[Zukkoyaki]

I don't think a lot of this forum understands how expensive purchasing development studios actually is. IO Interactive alone was on the market for over 50 million and nobody bit. Sure Microsoft, or someone else, could have bought it but that's a LOT of money without factoring development costs of their next project. Assuming it's a AAA project, we're talking probably another 50 million.

Yes it's an investment but generally publishers don't have that kind of money to throw around and just drop in one chunk like that. For that same $100 million dollars you could just go ahead and fund 2-3 significant games with third party partners or maybe even like 4-5 Ori or Recore level games.

 

[mrklaw]

Why can't he sign some games and work in the hardware? If he's spending 2 years focusing on Xbox one S & X, at the expense of less time on software then he's basically saying 'fuck you' to the millions of people that bought an OG XB1 since launch.

That isn't a good look. I know he's trying to big up the 1X as often as possible but not at the expense of software


Don't they have a history of ramping up first party for launch and the immediate years after launch, and then backing off investment? Thought they did something similar with 360. So this may just be the same thing - business as usual for them?

 

[meirl]

and its a good Thing. Sony should do the same... i dont know how Long we waited for the Last Guardian. lol

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

Sorry you've canceled 3 games you've revealed at E3 this gen alone, don't even know how many were canceled that were never revealed. I'm not trusting anything until its got a release period.

 

[Night Angel]

and its a good Thing. Sony should do the same... i dont know how Long we waited for the Last Guardian. lol

Yeah, Sony definitely has a problem releasing first party games. No lies detected.

 

[Elfstruck]

Expand Rare, have them become your Japan Studios (multiple projects, hardware support)

Acquire A4, have them become your Guerilla Games
Acquire IO Interactive, have them become your Santa Monica
Acquire Remedy, have them become your Naughty Dog
Acquire Playground Games, have them become your Liverpool Studios
Acquire People Can Fly, have them become your Quantic Dreams

Add another team to Coalition
Add another team to 343

You do realize they have limited budget right?

 

[spanks]

I don't think a lot of this forum understands how expensive purchasing development studios actually is. IO Interactive alone was on the market for over 50 million and nobody bit. Sure Microsoft, or someone else, could have bought it but that's a LOT of money without factoring development costs of their next project. Assuming it's a AAA project, we're talking probably another 50 million.

Yes it's an investment but generally publishers don't have that kind of money to throw around and just drop in one chunk like that. For that same $100 million dollars you could just go ahead and fund 2-3 significant games with third party partners or maybe even like 4-5 Ori or Recore level games.

They spent $2 billion on Minecraft alone. That's 40 IOs.
Hell, $50 million could be worth it just for the Hitman IP, which was successful enough to spawn 2 big budget movies. Only a handful of videogame IPs can say that.
The point is, it's a better investment than another Ryse or GTAIV DLC. Titanfall probably cost even more, and they didn't get to keep the studio OR the IP.

Investment needs to be going into talent, not just brands and IP.

You do realize they have limited budget right?

I meant those as options. Just one or two of those would be a giant leap forward for Microsoft.
Again, need I remind you Phil spent $2billion on Minecraft? $50million on the GTAIV DLC timed exclusivity? God knows how much on Titanfall, Ryse, Sunset, etc. All that money could be going into studios .

 

[cgcg]

So hes admitting the output for next 2 years will be a shit show.

 

[Matt]

"Signed" makes it sound like just some more outsourced IPs like Ryse and Sunset Overdrive. Which is okay, but what happens when those become a success? Let the actual talent move on to a different platform using the experience they gained on your game (a la Insomniac, Playground), and then build copy-cat factory studios that will never reach the heights of the creators (a la 343, Coalition)?

Granted building new studios is hard, but there are other ways. Sony didn't create Naughty Dog after all.

Here's some things you could do:

Expand Rare, have them become your Japan Studios (multiple projects, hardware support)

Acquire A4, have them become your Guerilla Games
Acquire IO Interactive, have them become your Santa Monica
Acquire Remedy, have them become your Naughty Dog
Acquire Playground Games, have them become your Liverpool Studios
Acquire People Can Fly, have them become your Quantic Dreams

Add another team to Coalition
Add another team to 343

Whatever you do PLEASE don't rely on outsourcing for new IP.

Nothing close to this is happening. Dream smaller.

And considering MS just recently turned down a new AAA game from one of those devs, perhaps much smaller.

 

[jond76]

All of these interviews I've read this all with him concerning this makes it sound like he was more concerned with getting the hardware straightened out before games. Which is fair. Now that the hardware is sorted, on with the games.