that is why people are saying it though. they're saying it's the same excuses because for the last 2 years he's been saying he's committed to first party AAA development, and yet every year the results are:
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Spencer: We Have Just Signed Exclusives That Wont Be Ready for 2-3 Years, No Point i
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that is why people are saying it though. they're saying it's the same excuses because for the last 2 years he's been saying he's committed to first party AAA development, and yet every year the results are:
panda-zebra
Banned
For the inbetween, now until reveal of these three new sign-offs, seems like the best bet. Expect the usual suspects and be pleasantly surprised with anything more.
It's difficult not to read it as something that is new and different in terms of policy rather than something that has been ongoing. It's hardly bad news in itself, it just, once again, sows a few seeds of doubt regarding what's been taking place software-wise while the hardware has been undergoing the refreshes.
Probably easier to accept that way for those already invested in the ecosystem and looking to jump on the X, rather than those yet to buy in to xbox this generation.
Matt commented directly on Playground in this thread "nah".
This is an irrational argument.
1. Nintendo has sold many platforms based largely on their first party output. The Wii and N64 are two examples. The Gameboy line was originally built upon first party support, as was the NDS and 3DS since both faced lukewarm 3rd party reception due to competing platforms from the console market leader.
2. The Switch is currently selling as fast as Nintendo can make them without a single good retail game and only a handful of digital games not made by Nintendo.
3. Your argument ignores that the Wii U never met a mass market price, was hardware inferior very shortly after it's life, and had incredibly convoluted marketing that left many thinking it was a Wii add-on, not a new console.
While it is true that first party content is less important in driving new hardware sales when compared to major 3rd party IPs, they represent a strong secondary factor. Everyone can get CoD, Battlefield, etc. on either major console or PC. The factors that make people pick PS4 over Xbox One or vice versa are price and personal appeal exclusives.
Since price has been running effectively even between the two after MS handed Sony an early advantage the key differentiation for most people is ultimately that next level of exclusive content.
MS is still applying the old model of a handful of big IPs (Halo, Forza, Gears) released on a regular schedule into the middle of the holiday season.
Sony instead has moved to a more diversified model, aiming to hit a wider swath of genres and especially aiming at genres with less service by the major 3rd parties (narrative focused single player experiences for example). They've moved most of their IPs outside of the holiday season entirely, building a strong Q1/Q2 track record.
What Sony has done with this is provide a diversified exclusives library that fills not just the calendar gaps, which is important, but also fills the personal preference gaps in each gamer's selection process. They've expanded this to how they work with 3rd parties, with Nioh, Yakuza 0, and Nier all lined up as Q1 release games where the quality + exclusivity creates meaningful buzz. Sure, Ghost Recon: Wildlands probably outsold all three combined and Horizon: Zero Dawn is close to doing so if it hasn't, but the PR splash of "drowning in games" this spring not only helped sell those game, they also helped sell PS4s.
Someone said earlier that Phil was just going through his priorities, hardware done, services done, now software. That might be accurate, and if so it should be extremely troubling to Xbox One fans. Improving first party software production arguably takes every bit as long as developing new hardware and services and assuming they plan to support the original Xbox One for the near future it had as clear a target for performance as they could have asked for. His comment gives the impression that this is a new thing, which strikes me as very late in the cycle to finally get moving on expanding first party production.
Which brings me to the big problem with MS in the console space. With the original Xbox everyone thought we were seeing an 800 lb. gorilla enter the industry who would throw cash around to acquire what was needed to succeed. A few years into the X360 generation and it looked like that was very likely. But then they shifted into cruise control, followed by getting drunk on Kinect.
Sony built their first party through acquisition. ND, Sucker Punch, Guerrilla, all purchases. They identified partners, signed multi-game deals, honored those multi-game deals, then acquired the best studios from those series of partnership, when possible (Insomniac apparently refused acquisition).
Picture a world where MS had taken the same mindset:
- Purchasing Bizarre and keeping the PGR franchise alive, which likely could have proceeded Forza Horizon.
- Letting Bungie make their new IP instead of having them buy out when they didn't want to make Halo for all time.
- Purchasing Bioware and Pandemic instead of letting them go to EA, locking up Mass Effect and Dragon Age as first party tent poles, and now we see it would have made Anthem the likely flagship game for X1X. Not to mention that Pandemic would have been a great fit to take over Halo, removing the need to start a new studio with 343.
- Which could have let them move to acquire Gears that much sooner, instead of getting well into this generation before doing so.
- Acquiring Blue Castle Games before Capcom did would have been another good move, they pay to keep them open after all.
I could continue, but the opportunities to build a meaningful first party library have been readily available to MS. They continue to pay token support, not wanting to actually extend the long term commitment of first party studios. Instead it's short term second party moves that they fail to follow up on if the games don't sell like Halo or Forza.
Damn you paint a good picture!
MugiwaraCole
Member
I can play Anthem on a PS4.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Yep exactly man. With that mindstate i went into E3 that's why the show didn't really feel underwhelming or disappointing. Actually Super Lucky's Tale was a surprise and Ori 2 too, even if i did kinda expected it.
As for that game Matt talked about, well shit....so if that rumor is true from i believe it was SneakersSSO (despite plenty of claims that were untrue) it would mean MS has now passed on two new games? Sure we have no idea what these games are and maybe they had good reason....but still.
Which is probably why i bet Phil Spencer didn't intend to talk about new exclusives but every single interviewer kept asking him about it, with good reason i should add, and probably couldn't keep mentioning only SoT, SoD2, Crackdown and Forza 7.
Worst case scenario it will be a repeat of this E3 with maybe one smaller new exclusive (i'd consider Lucky smaller than a Gears for example) but we'll ar least see more Anthem and hopefully Cyberpunk.
MrGreencastle
Member
Makes sense. Halo 6 will carry Xbox first party through end of 2018. Then 2019 the rest of their stuff will begin to hit.
I guess GAF wants to see CGI splash screens with a title names for new games coming out in 2-3 years. How would that help? if it's a sequel like Metroid Prime (or even TLOU2 that won't be out for 2-3 years, i guess a splash screen is fine), but if it's a new IP, then a title wouldn't hype anyone and would be a waste of time.
BUT, if what he says is true.. then next E3 we'll see good stuff. if not, then you can claim him as a liar.
BUT, if what he says is true.. then next E3 we'll see good stuff. if not, then you can claim him as a liar.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Puh, again:
Yes, a lot of people buy a console because they want to play 3rd party games.
The thing is: With XBOX and PlayStation, players can actually choose the platform they want to play those games on.
And they usually choose the one with the more appealing 1st party games, as the most sold SKUs price tag of both competitors is basically the same.
I hope you understand the difference, because it really is a big one.
If you (of all people) believe for a second that MS (of all companies) is going to spent a single dime on games for a dying platform you haven't been paying attention. MS basically stopped supporting XBOX360 years before the launch of XBOX One. What they are now doing is preparing the battlefield for their next console launch. Some of those games may be cross-platform, but usually real system sellers are supposed to be exclusive stuff which make people switch SKUs, and in an ideal scenario the platform.
yukianderson
Member
They got to build the hype for 2020.
yukianderson
Member
Those that don't know history are bound to repeat it.
Mass Effect
Member
At this point, I think those that are looking for a large repertoire of first-party games from Microsoft are looking in the wrong direction. I really don't think they will ever offer as much in terms of breadth or variety as Nintendo or Sony simply because they don't have the internal studios, second-party partnerships tend to be fleeting (see virtually all of MS' this gen), and there seems to be a tightening of resources available to Xbox. Plus Microsoft has a bad habit of hard-dropping support for a console when they have a new one coming, so even if what Phil is saying is true, I'm not entirely sure these games will even make it the Xbox One family. I mean it's the main reason I switch from Xbox back to Playstation. They virtually dropped support for the 360 after Kinect outside of their staple franchises, all while watching the PS3 get all these great 1st party games I really wanted to play, and I found myself using my 360 less and less since I had a PC by then.
Now none of this is to say you can't be happy with Microsoft's 1st party offerings as they are, but this is GAF after all, where we'll buy consoles solely for exclusives (I mean that's why any of us even buy Nintendo consoles right?). So I can certainly understand this disappointment. For those of us than own multiple consoles and/or have PCs, often times these consoles live and die by their exclusives.
But for many that have only an Xbox where buy all their games, of course they won't be as down about the lacking exclusives. They're too busy playing third-party games to care, and for them the occasional 1st party game is just an extra treat. And hey, if you care more about Halo than all of Sony and Nintendo's games combined, more power to ya, but for those that have been disappointed, and feel like they need interested exclusives to justify keeping their Xbox... maybe start to look elsewhere?
This is a lie and you know it. While first-party games' impact may be less than it was in the past, they have most certainly sold consoles.
Gears of War and Halo 3 pushed millions of 360s alone. Games like Mario Kart, Smash Bros, mainline Mario games, Halo & Uncharted (to a lesser extent) sell systems. You honestly don't think Zelda was a massive boon for the Switch's launch?
Like I said, maybe 1st party games aren't as significant as they were in the past, but they have and still do sell consoles. The data is out there to prove it.
Now imagine the Wii U with no 1st party support.
Now none of this is to say you can't be happy with Microsoft's 1st party offerings as they are, but this is GAF after all, where we'll buy consoles solely for exclusives (I mean that's why any of us even buy Nintendo consoles right?). So I can certainly understand this disappointment. For those of us than own multiple consoles and/or have PCs, often times these consoles live and die by their exclusives.
But for many that have only an Xbox where buy all their games, of course they won't be as down about the lacking exclusives. They're too busy playing third-party games to care, and for them the occasional 1st party game is just an extra treat. And hey, if you care more about Halo than all of Sony and Nintendo's games combined, more power to ya, but for those that have been disappointed, and feel like they need interested exclusives to justify keeping their Xbox... maybe start to look elsewhere?
This is a lie and you know it. While first-party games' impact may be less than it was in the past, they have most certainly sold consoles.
Gears of War and Halo 3 pushed millions of 360s alone. Games like Mario Kart, Smash Bros, mainline Mario games, Halo & Uncharted (to a lesser extent) sell systems. You honestly don't think Zelda was a massive boon for the Switch's launch?
Like I said, maybe 1st party games aren't as significant as they were in the past, but they have and still do sell consoles. The data is out there to prove it.
Now imagine the Wii U with no 1st party support.
He's been saying this for years and yet here we are with the matter still coming across as an afterthought with vague promises of waiting a few more years and hoping they don't cancel anything that looks good.
Sorry Phillip, but the kind of trust you're asking of me as a consumer here is the kind of trust you simply have not earned.
Yeah... now look at 3DS and Switch.
TheMule1983
Member
Zelda and Mario Kart are not good retail games? What?
Well it's nice to know what the future looks like for a console I putchased so I disagree. They are being smarter which is good price . They don't want to cancel games that have hype. Now they can do so with less backlash. They should not release game trailers until they are confident in the product but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see what's coming in the next few years.
I'm just here to say that we know what 1st party games are happening in
2018:
Sea of Thieves
State of Decay 2
Ori and the Will of Wisps
Forza Horizon 4
Halo 6
2019:
Forza Motorsport 8
Gears of War 5
<Signed game #1>
2020:
Forza Horizon 5
<Signed game #2>
2021:
Forza Motorsport 9
Halo 7
<MAYBE A SIGNED GAME #3>
2022:
Forza Horizon 6
Gears of War 6
<...>
NO GAMES GUYS
My conclusion...people are mad that we don't know what they are doing 1st party in 2019 and beyond.
Ok. Well, I think i'll just enjoy those exclusives that they do (well only 3 in 2018) and you guys can keep being "upset" at what the guy says.
2018:
Sea of Thieves
State of Decay 2
Ori and the Will of Wisps
Forza Horizon 4
Halo 6
2019:
Forza Motorsport 8
Gears of War 5
<Signed game #1>
2020:
Forza Horizon 5
<Signed game #2>
2021:
Forza Motorsport 9
Halo 7
<MAYBE A SIGNED GAME #3>
2022:
Forza Horizon 6
Gears of War 6
<...>
NO GAMES GUYS
My conclusion...people are mad that we don't know what they are doing 1st party in 2019 and beyond.
Ok. Well, I think i'll just enjoy those exclusives that they do (well only 3 in 2018) and you guys can keep being "upset" at what the guy says.
just in regards to variety this is probably the most depressing list of exclusives i think i've ever seen
sublimit
Banned
Or even better they should have used the money to either acquire developers or build new first party studios.
It's kind of worrying that a company the size of MS couldn't multitask and focus on first party at the same time as XBL and the hardware. I hope for the sake of the platform that Phil really is playing the long game and not just making excuses. Games are the lifeblood of any console.
Salty Rice
Member
Thats not really a good defence especially for people who are tired of the same old shit.
Forza, Halo and Gears for eternity tho!
Here's hoping they got a shit ton more in store than this abysmal list of 1st party games. For their own sake, that is.
or just expand on what they already have. make coalition a 2 IP studio. gears and *insert new IP* same goes for 343 and turn 10. if they're happy with their output (clearly they are seeing it's all they make) let them expand and make new games for them too.
The line-up looks even worse in list form.
This is so true and sad compared to the PRO.
Doug Heffernan
Member
He's talking about first party exclusives here.
Mass Effect
Member
Are we doing list warz? Because this is a pretty abysmal start...
I can only assume this was a joke post, Zedox.
Yearsoflurking
Member
didn't realize ashen was still exclusive
Uno Venova
Banned
what were you thinking
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
lol wii u definitely did not have the best 1st party. Stop.
One would think that if anyone who typed all of this would eventually stop and think if people in here actually had a point regarding the abysmal lineup
Who's point are you trying to prove, I'm confused. If that is their line up I can safely say I won't even buy their games on my PC let alone go out and buy an XBX for them, sheesh that look bad.
Nothing wrong with it, just it's actually more expensive in the long run. What happens if one of those outsourced IP becomes successful? The creators might hang around for a couple sequels, then go use that experience to create the next big thing on another platform. Meanwhile, Microsoft will then have to retroactively start building a new team to pump out more sequels like a factory, none of which will be as good as the original talent. That is expensive and loses lots of time where the IP is not being used.
OR, for the SAME PRICE, you could own a studio you trust from the beginning. Sure, they might not get a hit right away, but they will continue to make good games, build a critically acclaimed library for the brand, and gather a cult following (look at Naughty Dog). And when that hit hits, they'll stick around, because nurturing their own creation is infinitely more motivating than pumping out sequels to someone else's game for eternity (e.g. 343). And when they want to move on and create their next hit IP, it will be at home. Destiny could've been Xbox exclusive if Microsoft had faith in their talent. They would've had to sacrifice Halo to get it, but look at Halo's falling numbers. Instead, MS sacrificed the talent to keep the brand, and now they're down their best studio and all they have to show for it is a 15yr old IP with diminishing returns.
Always better to invest in talent that creates the IP, rather than the IP themselves.
Yeah, because MS just leaked the only games that will come out all the way till 2022.
They may as well pack it up now and save the GAF server bandwidth.
That's an incredible depressing list of exclusives. Nintendo and Sony has so much more for 2017 at least. Sony has more for 2017, Nintendo I don't know since their E3 direct was only for this year.
Katana_Strikes
Member
Sometimes you should press preview and take a look at your post before deciding to post.
Tell me about it, right?
You damn well know their heavy reliability on third party. It's been like that for years now and all signs point to it no matter what a PR mouth piece says. Especially when that same PR mouth piece has said the same in the past.
So a vague statement about unannounced future games is preferable to a trailer now?
I mean, like, we know games are coming. We want to know what games.
Some may criticize Nintendo for just showing the logo for Metroid Prime 4, but that confirmation is actually a very compelling reason to invest in a Switch now rather than waiting several years to see if a Metroid game gets announced.
Of course, it could be the next Zelda BotW and take 4 years. Is that better or worse?
On a side note, I feel like Microsoft is the anti-Nintendo. Where as a Nintendo machine is largely propped up by first party games, an MS console is reliant on third party.
Tbh, Sony has the best of both worlds. Great first party studios, great third party support, lots of niche Japanese stuff.
I mean, like, we know games are coming. We want to know what games.
Some may criticize Nintendo for just showing the logo for Metroid Prime 4, but that confirmation is actually a very compelling reason to invest in a Switch now rather than waiting several years to see if a Metroid game gets announced.
Of course, it could be the next Zelda BotW and take 4 years. Is that better or worse?
On a side note, I feel like Microsoft is the anti-Nintendo. Where as a Nintendo machine is largely propped up by first party games, an MS console is reliant on third party.
Tbh, Sony has the best of both worlds. Great first party studios, great third party support, lots of niche Japanese stuff.
This. Give us something, I get the hesitation after scalebound but come on. Give us how man exclusive too. If it's only 3 added to that list then I still don't give a shit. "22+" ok, you peaked my interest.
/thread
Aceofspades
Banned
That is some really poor lineup up to 2022. I know it wasn't your​ original point to show that.
Theslammer
Member
Haha
flaxknuckles
Member
People who buy consoles have to know that their investment will pay out in the long run or they will just pass up the Xbox One for now. Just announce the games. Do it like Marvel lines out their movie phases.
WaterAstro
Member
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