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[kirblar]

Exactly. Dems won a bunch of special elections in 09. Then came 2010 and the red tide.

Same w the GOP and 05.

Nationalizing races is bad for us. This is why midterms are better for us than one off races.

 

[Steel]

Right, but this is an argument for forcibly homogenising Democratic Party officials.

I'm saying the reason why they have worse messaging is because they have a lot more varying opinions in elected office than the republicans. Who cares about the voters, the republican voters that have varying opinions don't care if their elected officials don't match all of them, they care if they check one box and have an R next to their name.

 

[kirblar]

I'm saying the reason why they have worse messaging is because they have a lot more varying opinions in elected office than the republicans.

Yup. When your opinions are all black and white and stupid and youre a party of single issue voters it's easy to be consistent.

 

[Byakuya769]

Says a left wing that wants to chase after the White-working-class and wants to abandon "Identity Politics".

Yep. Very confused tweet.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Again, this isn't true. The Republican Party has more internal factions than the Democratic Party does, not fewer.

Yes, this past election showed a wide range of Republican fractions and views but when it came time to hunker down they all "rallied" and put out a unified message that their base supports.

Contrast that with the Democratic base pre and post election and we're seeing this to not be the case. How many countless articles have we seen from leftist and/or democractic pundits calling for different things?

 

[MysteryQuesadilla]

Charisma has little to do with it. You need to fight for policies people need and want.

I agree with your second sentence. But there's no way you can make it in national politics without being a "cult of personality" type.

 

[shinra-bansho]

The Republicans have a unifying ideology. Their dislike of Democrats. Evangelicals will vote for Satan (R).

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

This makes zero logical sense in the context of Obama

Obama is a Nixon era Republican.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

What's the saying? Republicans fall in line, Democrats fall in love.

 

[PeskyToaster]

What's the saying? Republicans fall in line, Democrats fall in love.

The Right fall in line, The Left falls apart.

 

[The Technomancer]

What's the saying? Republicans fall in line, Democrats fall in love.

Every election we need to learn this all over again it seems

 

[excelsiorlef]

Obama is a Nixon era Republican.

Ah yes Nixon the lover of LGBTQ folk and minorities everywhere.

Ah yes Obama is a Republican from the era that birthed the Southern Strategy

 

[Steel]

What's the saying? Republicans fall in line, Democrats fall in love.

And this is precisely the reason why Republicans always deflect to go on to the attack with "But Obama/Hillary/The Media" because they don't need to defend themselves to their base, they need to damage the other party to suppress turnout.

Obama is a Nixon era Republican.

This is why I can't stand the left right argument. There's always another "lefty" that redefines the spectrum.

 

[Somnid]

Yup. When your opinions are all black and white and stupid and youre a party of single issue voters it's easy to be consistent.

It's all about identity, their opinions come from the party hivemind, they are not pushed to challenge assumptions like many democrats do, perhaps because they are more isolated and perhaps because they lack education.

 

[randomhugs]

I mean I've been shying away from this comparison for various reasons but people are talking about them both so much anyway that the hypocrisy is starting to get annoying. Corbyn outperforming expectations to almost achieve victory cannot be an astonishing energizing comback for the left while every Dem run thus far in a special election, from the Bernielike in Montana to the bank exec in South Carolina, coming close to victory represents a "failure of the centrists". Either Corbyn failed, or Dems are poised for a huge success.

Corbyn's loss is celebrated as a win because he took away the conservatives majority. He reduced their power and increased his own despite losing. Republicans still have as much power now as they have had since November.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Corbyn's loss is celebrated as a win because he took away the conservatives majority. He reduced their power and increased his own despite losing. Republicans still have as much power now as they have had since November.

Even if we won every single special election, the Republicans would have as much power as they have now.

 

[Steel]

Corbyn's loss is celebrated as a win because he took away the conservatives majority. He reduced their power and increased his own despite losing. Republicans still have as much power now as they have had since November.

Corbyn's "win" was a national election(which these special elections are not) that brought his party's margins to about what the Dems have had in Congress since November. Remember, when Trump won Republicans lost seats. Should we look at that as a win for the dems?

 

[The Technomancer]

Corbyn's loss is celebrated as a win because he took away the conservatives majority. He reduced their power and increased his own despite losing. Republicans still have as much power now as they have had since November.

There have been four elections since November

 

[BTA]

I mean I've been shying away from this comparison for various reasons but people are talking about them both so much anyway that the hypocrisy is starting to get annoying. Corbyn outperforming expectations to almost achieve victory cannot be an astonishing energizing comback for the left while every Dem run thus far in a special election, from the Bernielike in Montana to the bank exec in South Carolina, coming close to victory represents a "failure of the centrists". Either Corbyn failed, or Dems are poised for a huge success.

Not really. The UK election was not a win/lose situation. They gained 30 seats in parliament and May didn't even win either.

That's not to say that getting closer isn't good, but Corbyn getting that close had an actual immediate benefit and here it's just maybe a sign that things might not go as terribly in the future.

EDIT: And of course I'm beaten to it.

 

[KHarvey16]

Corbyn's loss is celebrated as a win because he took away the conservatives majority. He reduced their power and increased his own despite losing. Republicans still have as much power now as they have had since November.

Republicans would still have as much power if the Dems won those elections, too. Their importance are as barometers for the current climate and what that means for 2018. In that context the numbers are quite good for Dems right now.

 

[HStallion]

The Republicans have a unifying ideology. Their dislike of Democrats. Evangelicals will vote for Satan (R).

GOP Voter: Putin, Satan. Whatever.

 

[Skyball Paint]

GA-06 was lost on culture wars not policy. At no point did Handel argue affirmatively for her policies but rather sought to tar & feather Ossoff. The quicker Dems start using those dirty tricks back at the GOP the faster/better. Dems already have the policies, just need to get madder and grimier!

This is why "Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line" is nonsense. Republican votes are based on passion, not pragmatism, and the GOP is exceptionally good at exploiting that passion to rally their base.

Democrats becoming unapologetic, proud defenders of their policies and values is more important than learning to play dirty, imo (not that it couldn't help). Worry about inspiring your base over trying to win over moderates.

 

[Neoweee]

It's disappointing to watch centrist Democrats continue to condemn the LGBT and black communities by proving unable to win elections with such a milquetoast national party message. Even good candidates can't escape being dragged down by that millstone.

I guess the clear conclusion is to massively disenfranchise black voters so they'll stop voting for centrist candidates during primaries. More old white dudes that don't even bother to campaign within black communities need to be able to win. The system is rigged.

Spoiler

sarcasm

 

[Otnopolit]

The Republicans have a unifying ideology. Their dislike of Democrats. Evangelicals will vote for Satan (R).

But the Democrats have adopted the same platform, just mirrored towards hating Republicans now. Why does it work for them but not Dems? What secret ingredient are they missing? Diet racism?

 

[Juice]

But the Democrats have adopted the same platform, just mirrored towards hating Republicans now. Why does it work for them but not Dems? What secret ingredient are they missing? Diet racism?

They have not adopted the same platform. The amount of infighting, moralizing, and so on that democrats get caught up in supresses their turnout. The republicans meanwhile gin up all kinds of fear and anger and hatred and their people will climb over bodies to get to the polls.

 

[Lowmelody]

There was literally someone here who posted the other day that we need to tone down our message on civil rights.

CIVIL RIGHTS.

That shit was everywhere when Trump won. Liberals straight up arguing to drop civil rights and minority issues in general for desperate expediency.

 

[Crocodile]

But the Democrats have adopted the same platform, just mirrored towards hating Republicans now. Why does it work for them but not Dems? What secret ingredient are they missing? Diet racism?

Fox News & its cohorts

Gerrymandering that concentrates voters and voter suppression help too

 

[jay]

It's almost as if the Democratic party is a moderately liberal party concerned with propagation of the party above all else and not a hugely progressive party married to ideals of equality and fairness.

 

[randomhugs]

Even if we won every single special election, the Republicans would have as much power as they have now.

And Corbyn's loss would still be more of a win. The point is they are hardly equivalent.

Edit: This.

Not really. The UK election was not a win/lose situation. They gained 30 seats in parliament and May didn't even win either.

That's not to say that getting closer isn't good, but Corbyn getting that close had an actual immediate benefit and here it's just maybe a sign that things might not go as terribly in the future.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

That shit was everywhere when Trump won. Liberals straight up arguing to drop civil rights and minority issues in general for desperate expediency.

Idiots unaware that they might gain some voters but also lose another chunk. There is always the probability they wouldn't increase the base, just swap voters around when dropping some issues in favour of others. Unless they believe the current base is a hive mind voting democrat no matter what.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I feel like this freakout is over nothing. They actually did well in that election considering they were putting up a candidate not even living in the district. That is rarely going to fly.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Panic. lol

We just made a decades held Republican district competitive when it shouldn't have been.

 

[gcubed]

Panic. lol

We just made a decades held Republican district competitive when it shouldn't have been.

But if he was more left they would have won!!

 

[wildfire]

cf. minimum wage, single player health care, taxing the rich, etc.

God damn. The thread should've ended with this but I know why it will still keep on going.

It's almost as if the Democratic party is a moderately liberal party concerned with propagation of the party above all else and not a hugely progressive party married to ideals of equality and fairness.

Stop it please. You guys are killing me. And the corpratecrats have a hard time reading this before their eyes glass over.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

That shit was everywhere when Trump won. Liberals straight up arguing to drop civil rights and minority issues in general for desperate expediency.

Still seething over that. That day really revealed a lot of people's true colors.

 

[Afrodium]

It's interesting seeing so many people claim that a hard left candidate could never be viable based on historical voting patterns when that same logic told us that the sitting POTUS never had a chance.

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

Ah yes Nixon the lover of LGBTQ folk and minorities everywhere.

Ah yes Obama is a Republican from the era that birthed the Southern Strategy

Being accepting of LGBTQ or not Racist isn't a political platform. There are homophobes and racists in both parties. Obama opposed gay marriage years into his Presidency. There are Log Cabin Republicans. Etc etc.

This is why I can't stand the left right argument. There's always another "lefty" that redefines the spectrum.

If it is indeed a "spectrum" then it can't be redefined, you exist on the spectrum and it is you who changes.

Obama's actual political lineage is in line with the GOP circa the 70s, prior to the Reagan years moving the GOP further to the Right.

 

[Nikodemos]

Unless they believe the current base is a hive mind voting democrat no matter what.

But that's precisely what Democrat voters need to do. They need to realise that Republicans are uniformly a bunch of thoroughly despicable cunts who would gladly take a crowbar to their shins if it were legal to do so. The shittiest Democrat is better than a 'good' Republican by virtue of not being a Republican.

 

[Skyball Paint]

But the Democrats have adopted the same platform, just mirrored towards hating Republicans now. Why does it work for them but not Dems? What secret ingredient are they missing? Diet racism?

Something to fight for

Republicans say they fight for "life", "traditional" values, and freedom from "big government". It's horseshit, but it is a powerful message. I don't think Dems have to bullshit, because their actual policies are broadly popular, but they need to present them with passion.

 

[aeolist]

ossoff was an empty suit and ga06 was probably not winnable by any non-republican

the mistake wasn't failing to run a hard left candidate there, it was dumping millions into a black hole and ignoring other contests because the party is so fucking desperate to get suburban white votes

 

[excelsiorlef]

Being accepting of LGBTQ or not Racist isn't a political platform. There are homophobes and racists in both parties. Obama opposed gay marriage years into his Presidency. There are Log Cabin Republicans. Etc etc.

Now you're not even making sense.

Again you're literally saying Obama is a republican from the literal era that birthed the Southern Strategy

 

[zelas]

It's disappointing to watch centrist Democrats continue to condemn the LGBT and black communities by proving unable to win elections with such a milquetoast national party message. Even good candidates can't escape being dragged down by that millstone.

It's more disappointing to see radical democrats ignore state by state demographics as if they can fill congress with representatives from CA only.

 

[Sami+]

The Republicans have a unifying ideology. Their dislike of Democrats. Evangelicals will vote for Satan (R).

If there's one thing liberals could learn from them it's this but we won't because half our base is borderline obsessed with "love" or whatever.

 

[randomengine]

Tax the rich.

It is time for full on class warfare.

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

It's interesting seeing so many people claim that a hard left candidate could never be viable based on historical voting patterns when that same logic told us that the sitting POTUS never had a chance.

Most people think redistribution and welfarism is hard left when it isn't. Democrats who want to fix a problem of the market with the market + redistribution aren't going to win elections anymore.

Healthcare is too expensive and difficult to access. The solution to the Healthcare crisis isn't via the Health Insurance Market. It's democratizing the Healthcare industry, increasing participants on the provider side, removing all of the hurdles and financial issues that prevent the availability of healthcare in the first place.

It's not simply "this is fine, we just need to prop up health insurance", which is both party's solution.

Fix the problem outside of market mechanisms. Go for the long term fix, not the short term fix of throwing money at the problem. Education, availability, democratization.

 

[gcubed]

God damn. The thread should've ended with this but I know why it will still keep on going.




Stop it please. You guys are killing me. And the corpratecrats have a hard time reading this before their eyes glass over.

I mean sure, we can end the thread there if you are low on iq because the only way that tweet is anything but incredibly dumb

 

[Orayn]

Tax the rich.

It is time for full on class warfare.

You're thinking way too small of that's your idea of class warfare.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

ossoff was an empty suit and ga06 was probably not winnable by any non-republican

the mistake wasn't failing to run a hard left candidate there, it was dumping millions into a black hole and ignoring other contests because the party is so fucking desperate to get suburban white votes

that's not what you were saying the night of the election

 

[Steel]

If it is indeed a "spectrum" then it can't be redefined, you exist on the spectrum and it is you who changes.

Obama's actual political lineage is in line with the GOP circa the 70s, prior to the Reagan years moving the GOP further to the Right.

It isn't really a spectrum, was my point. Policies are not two dimensional. There are almost as many ways to do things right as there are to do things wrong.

And, what I was referring to was the fact that I had this very discussion played out in an earlier thread with a self-described lefty that described Obama as center-left. Other self-described leftys would say he's left, center, center-right. It's a waste of time having this conversation like it means something.

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

Now you're not even making sense.

Again you're literally saying Obama is a republican from the literal era that birthed the Southern Strategy

You're simply deflecting from criticism of Obama by calling Republicans racist. Republicans in general can be racist, but that doesn't mean Obama can't have conservative political policies.

The Republican's election strategy is a separate entity from their economic policies.