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[darkinstinct]

Blaming the devs without knowing the details is embarrassing imo. They specifically mentioned the size, they didnt say Nintendo js slow with patches in general.

How is devs blaming Nintendo any better? These things are known in advance. When they decided to release on Switch they knew all details, including size limits for patches. To then go ahead, probably violate your NDA, call out Nintendo in public because they didn't read good enough or just didn't care - that's on those devs.

 

[Malice215]

How big were the Bomberman patches?

If the size is such a problem for an indie MP mode what is is it going to be for 10GB day one patches on AAA games?

AAA games aren't coming to the Switch, and size hasn't been a problem up to this point, even for games larger than NBA Playgrounds. You also have Fast RMX which is an indie game that patched in multiplayer. Now Nintendo is the problem all of a sudden when these devs are full aware of the guildelines and also have to follow the guidelines for MS and Sony to have patches certified?

Even if you want to take out the fact that a game was released at launch that's too big for the internal storage you still need to take into account that if purchase some of Nintendo's games as a service like Arms and Splatoon, some DLC for games like Breath of the Wild and some download exclusive titles the Switch's 26 GB of free space is going to fill up very quickly.

The internal storage would be used if no microSD card is inserted, and people have posted their examples of how much space they've used which hasn't been used up quick. Storage on PS4/Xbox gets eaten up quicker than the storage on the Switch after you install a couple of games and their bloated patches.

I don't have any other examples. I feel that specifically calling out two games that are having issues with Nintendo's patching policies as 'rushed' is detrimental to the conversation, because it implies the devs are to blame.

How are these devs pointing the blame to Nintendo not to blame for rushing out broken games?

 

[Wamb0wneD]

That thread title change lmao. Thanks mods.

 

[Shantom]

But they were rushed, right? NBA Playgrounds was released in a horrible unoptimzed state, and with features missing. The other game I know less about, but I believe it was also quite optimized and later improved via patches. Is that not correct? Do you feel NBA Playgrounds or Mr. Shifty were not rushed to be released on the Switch? I'm not against removing that aspect of the title if it is incorrect.

AFAIK Mr Shifty was fine, but I too don't know much about it. NBA was rushed to release it concurrently with the other platforms, that's true, but when the devs have a patch available to go so soon after release that would fix the issues, and make Switch-specific improvements to the filesize, I feel it's unfair to call them out in the thread title.

How are these devs pointing the blame to Nintendo not to blame for rushing out broken games?

How are these games broken? If they are broken, why wouldn't you want them quickly patched?

 

[jariw]

NBA Playgrounds is 7 gigs. That's nothing. We wouldn't be acting like it had a 'big download size' if the Switch's out-of-box storage capacity weren't downright anemic.

Even if the internal storage would have been 64GB or 128GB (which also would have resulted in increased costs of the system), that wouldn't have mattered. 7.4GB is still a lot of storage for a game that is so small in scope.

7.4 gigs means $2.50 in additional storage costs on a $45 128GB MicroSD card. It is more than "nothing" IMO. If that would have been storage on a 1TB hard drive (which costs about the same as a 128GB MicroSD card), I would agree that it would have been "nothing".

 

[Skittzo0413]

Since it's a new page I'll ask again:

Does anyone know what the certifications and policies are for Sony and MS regarding patches? We know there are certifications involved so clearly they have some rules. Do we know for a fact Nintendo's rules are stricter (especially considering the devs got an exception for the patch file size)?

 

[LordRaptor]

Does anyone know what the certifications and policies are for Sony and MS

They are heavily NDAed, at best you might find someone willing to give you a vague gist as to what is involved.

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

That turnaround.

 

[AquaWateria]

That thread change lol.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

What's all this then.

 

[cyberheater]

Don't release broken games.,

This.

 

[WesFX]

This threads title was completely changed, right?

 

[Theonik]

People saying "32 GB, in 2017!!" need to check the storage on their cellphones. The Switch is first and foremost, a portable.

That comes with all kind of development implications, and limits.

I got 256GB on my phone so that's a silly argument tbh

 

[Sesuadra]

This threads title was completely changed, right?

Yes

 

[Hegarol]

Title claims it was the devs fault but the post says otherwise.

Clickbaity.

Thread title was changed by the mods.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

I got 256GB on my phone so that's a silly argument tbh

How much did that phone cost and can it run a game like BotW for 3 hours without melting?

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Nintendo fans (I have a Switch) can talk all they want about how devs need to do better compression and get game sizes and patches sizes down.

At the end of the day though, if Nintendo policies and the Switch limited storage end up being a barrier more will just continue to say fuck it and not bother porting their games to Nintendo's platform. Especially for games/genres that don't tend to sell as well on Nintendo platforms (unlike pick up and play games like NBA Playground that are a natural fit). So it's just another thing that hurts Nintendo getting genre variety in their third party library.

 

[Turrican3]

Does anyone know what the certifications and policies are for Sony and MS regarding patches? We know there are certifications involved so clearly they have some rules. Do we know for a fact Nintendo's rules are stricter (especially considering the devs got an exception for the patch file size)?

I can guarantee 99.9% of the people blaming Nintendo has absolutely no clue about that.

Heck, I'd say they have no clue about Nintendo policies as well, that surely weren't clearly described in the OP quotes.

Nice thread title change by the way ahah.

I got 256GB on my phone so that's a silly argument tbh

Maybe it gets slightly less silly when you consider we're talking about two completely different products (not to mention the difference in price for consumers and the company producing it - with the high end volumes you can bet Samsung Apple and the like get flash chips far cheaper than Nintendo in terms of cost/GB for example)

 

[RichiRamjag]

I got 256GB on my phone so that's a silly argument tbh

Not as silly as your rebuttal.

 

[kulapik]

I mean yes, broken games shouldn't be released, but what about post launch content? That's a bigger issue here. If devs want to launch free DLC they have to update the game and those size limitations can be a problem.

 

[Calm Mind]

*Sees massive +10Gb day one patches*

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Updating games post release to add content is fine. Releasing a broken game and fixing it with patches is not and never will be.

Underrated post.

 

[Hubble]

Why was the thread title changed to 'rushed'? That is completely innaccurate. It is common for games today to be patched after launch, big or small. The thread title smells extreme bias.....

 

[Minsc]

AFAIK Mr Shifty was fine, but I too don't know much about it. NBA was rushed to release it concurrently with the other platforms, that's true, but when the devs have a patch available to go so soon after release that would fix the issues, and make Switch-specific improvements to the filesize, I feel it's unfair to call them out in the thread title.

I think the title could be slightly better then, for Mr Shifty's sake. NBA Playgrounds seems more apt to the first corrected title, but this should be better.

Why was the thread title changed to 'rushed'? That is completely innaccurate. It is common for games today to be patched after launch, big or small. The thread title smells extreme bias.....

You're arguing a game released at 7GBs and with missing modes being immediately wanting to be patched down to 3.5GBs in size instead of 7GBs isn't an accurate description of a rushed release?

The original title btw, was basically akin to that games on the Switch are being harshly limited by Nintendo in their patches, which is the opposite of what is happening as far as many can see, as the majority of games on the Switch have been patched, and multiple times for many.

 

[conpfreak]

I got 256GB on my phone so that's a silly argument tbh

And how much did it cost you to buy a phone with 256GB of internal storage? You guys aren't even trying anymore

 

[Theonik]

Maybe it gets slightly less silly when you consider we're talking about two completely different products (not to mention the difference in price for consumers and the company producing it - with the high end volumes you can bet Samsung Apple and the like get flash chips far cheaper than Nintendo in terms of cost/GB for example)

Not as silly as your rebuttal.

It was not me who brought phones into this thread. The post I quoted was asking about phone storage. And so people reply. As for cost, NAND storage has gone down in price quite significantly. How much Nintendo could get for more flash storage is anyone's guess. It's still proving to be problematic.

How much did that phone cost and can it run a game like BotW for 3 hours without melting?

I would say yes actually. But the answer would be too much.

 

[DeuceGamer]

AFAIK Mr Shifty was fine, but I too don't know much about it. NBA was rushed to release it concurrently with the other platforms, that's true, but when the devs have a patch available to go so soon after release that would fix the issues, and make Switch-specific improvements to the filesize, I feel it's unfair to call them out in the thread title.


How are these games broken? If they are broken, why wouldn't you want them quickly patched?

Did the system limitations change? If not, then the developer should have known they were going to have issues getting approval and shouldn't have made statements that the patch would be ready so soon.

 

[timberger]

Thread title seems a tad passive aggressive.

edit: oh, at least it did before it was changed.

 

[HardRojo]

I don't know what to think of this. On one hand you got Nintendo simply being Nintendo and not getting with the times regarding storage (1TB isn't enough nowadays), but on the other hand you got a dev releasing a somewhat broken product.
Both are to blame in my opinion, the dev more so than Nintendo.

 

[xrnzaaas]

Sony and Microsoft should also enforce some (reasonable) patch limits. Having to download a >10 gig patch is just not right. Either release your game in a working state or delay it.

 

[DeuceGamer]

I don't know what to think of this. On one hand you got Nintendo simply being Nintendo and not getting with the times regarding storage (1TB isn't enough nowadays), but on the other hand you got a dev releasing a somewhat broken product.
Both are to blame in my opinion, the dev more so than Nintendo.

Are you expecting Nintendo to release Switch with 1TB of storage?

Guess it's just me but I'd much prefer a cheaper overall system and the ability to add an SD Card if necessary. I already own several games digitally and still have plenty of room so increasing the cost by adding a lot of storage is just unnecessary for me.

 

[Calm Mind]

Sony and Microsoft should also enforce some (reasonable) patch limits. Having to download a >10 gig patch is just not right. Either release your game in a working state or delay it.

That will never happen because 3rd party publishers control those ecosystems.

 

[TwilightPrincess]

Devs aren't inflating patch sizes for shits and giggles. It's not 2006 any more.

7,5gb patch for a 10gb game isn't normal i think.

 

[guggnichso]

Mr. Shifty wasn't fine, it had vastly fluctuating fps and it's whole physics and movement systems tied to fps, which made it simply unplayable, thus completely broken. There's lots of videos out there.

The devs, when called out on this via twitter said first they won't fix it and you should by the steam version instead. After a little shitstorm, the CEO apologized for the twitter thing and promised a fix.

Now - surprise! - it still isn't fixed but - oh wonder! Nintendo are to blame. Totes not the developers, who already proved to be quite sketchy.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._suggesting_you_should_pick_steam_over_switch

 

[Spirited]

I don't know what to think of this. On one hand you got Nintendo simply being Nintendo and not getting with the times regarding storage (1TB isn't enough nowadays), but on the other hand you got a dev releasing a somewhat broken product.
Both are to blame in my opinion, the dev more so than Nintendo.

1TB of storage that would work in the formfactor the switch is would cost a fucking fortune, there seriously is no way that would work.

 

[HardRojo]

Are you expecting Nintendo to release Switch with 1TB of storage?

Guess it's just me but I'd much prefer a cheaper overall system and the ability to add an SD Card if necessary. I already own several games digitally and still have plenty of room so increasing the cost by adding a lot of storage is just unnecessary for me.

No, I'm not of course, that'd be crazy. It'd be nice if you could add an external hard drive if you don't care about portability, but that'd most definitely go against the concept of the console. I guess that's one of the negative points when you plan to go hybrid.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

I would say yes actually. But the answer would be too much.

I promise you your passive-cooled phone w/temperature-based throttling would not run BotW for any extended period of time beforw fizzling out like an old GPU or dropping the framerate well beyond an unplayable level

 

[score01]

Sony and Microsoft should also enforce some (reasonable) patch limits. Having to download a >10 gig patch is just not right. Either release your game in a working state or delay it.

Yep. There really is a defence force for everything. If your game isn't ready for release at your arbitrarily set release date, delay it till it is. Patching is there for bug fixes not to help you out because you missed your launch date.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

I don't know what to think of this. On one hand you got Nintendo simply being Nintendo and not getting with the times regarding storage (1TB isn't enough nowadays), but on the other hand you got a dev releasing a somewhat broken product.
Both are to blame in my opinion, the dev more so than Nintendo.

1TB is only not enough bc optimization and data compression takes time/money and publishers don't want to "waste" that there. I bet my ass Mario Kart 8 Deluxe wouldn't be 7 gb if it was developed as an Xbox exclusive for example.

I would say yes actually. But the answer would be too much.

I would say you are pretty wrong on that.

I promise you your passive-cooled phone w/temperature-based throttling would not run BotW for any extended period of time beforw fizzling out like an old GPU or dropping the framerate well beyond an unplayable level

This.

 

[Theonik]

I promise you your passive-cooled phone w/temperature-based throttling would not run BotW for any extended period of time beforw fizzling out like an old GPU or dropping the framerate well beyond an unplayable level

If Nintendo hadn't shipped with a 28nm chip they could have done it too.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

If Nintendo hadn't shipped with a 28nm chip they could have done it too.

Could've done what? Your phone can't run BotW in a playable state, no phone can. No matter what you believe lol.

 

[guggnichso]

AFAIK Mr Shifty was fine, but I too don't know much about it. NBA was rushed to release it concurrently with the other platforms, that's true, but when the devs have a patch available to go so soon after release that would fix the issues, and make Switch-specific improvements to the filesize, I feel it's unfair to call them out in the thread title.


How are these games broken? If they are broken, why wouldn't you want them quickly patched?

I just find it extremely hard to believe those specific two devs. The Mr. Shifty devs proved to be quite a shady bunch that blamed the problems of their title first on the switch hardware, then on their small team size, then on Unity, then suggested to just buy the PC version, then their CEO promised a patch, and now Nintendo themselves are to blame for not letting them release the patch. This is bullshit.

The NBA team promised to patch in Online within a week upon release. They didn't do it. If Nintendo indeed has super evil patch limitations, those Devs would have known that when they made their announcement to patch in the Online mode within a week of release. This is what the dev said in the beginning of this month:

http://nintendoeverything.com/wp-content/uploads/nba-playgrounds-update.jpg

And now this super magical patch that fixes everything with one sweep "somehow" is kept away from honest gamers by evil Nintendo because of their evil regulations THAT THE DEV KNEW ABOUT ALL THE TIME.

This reeks of bullshit.

 

[Shiggy]

I just find it extremely hard to believe those specific two devs. The Mr. Shifty devs proved to be quite a shady bunch that blamed the problems of their title first on the switch hardware, then on their small team size, then on Unity, then suggested to just buy the PC version, then their CEO promised a patch, and now Nintendo themselves are to blame for not letting them release the patch. This is bullshit.

The NBA team promised to patch in Online within a week upon release. They didn't do it. If Nintendo indeed has super evil patch limitations, those Devs would have known that when they made their announcement to patch in the Online mode within a week of release. This is what the dev said in the beginning of this month:

http://nintendoeverything.com/wp-content/uploads/nba-playgrounds-update.jpg

And now this super magical patch that fixes everything with one sweep "somehow" is kept away from honest gamers by evil Nintendo because of their evil regulations THAT THE DEV KNEW ABOUT ALL THE TIME.

This reeks of bullshit.

I rehosted the image as it cannot be loaded if it's not on Nintendo Everything:

That tweet is just saying the same as what is said in the OP with different words. The devs are at least consistent with their story.

 

[ggx2ac]

If Nintendo hadn't shipped with a 28nm chip they could have done it too.

You don't even have die size of the Tegra X1 right so how could you even claim to be right? lol

 

[Turrican3]

It was not me who brought phones into this thread. The post I quoted was asking about phone storage.

Neither did I.

Still seems an apples to oranges comparison to me due to huge price and typical use cases (or, maybe better, typical application scope) differences.

 

[atpbx]

How much did that phone cost and can it run a game like BotW for 3 hours without melting?

Thats irrelevant to the point he is making.

You know this, but you've still typed that response.

Thats PC world level marketing reasoning there.

 

[Bobo Dakes]

Not enough people echoing this, so I will. You can't get mad at Nintendo 100% when blame falls on your lap for a rushed product.

You say that like the that's the devs intention. They clearly state that it couldn't have been helped.

 

[Theonik]

You don't even have die size of the Tegra X1 right so how could you even claim to be right? lol

*shrug*
It's not like BOTW is available elsewhere to compare anyway. What I had in mind was the A10X on the iPad Pro actually. It's smaller sibiling on the i7 Plus might struggle.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Thats irrelevant to the point he is making.

You know this, but you've still typed that response.

Thats PC world level marketing reasoning there.

It's not irrelevant to his point because these things have to be considered in relation to other factors. Great that his phone has so much gb. It also did cost a shitton more than a Switch and if Nintendo would make a Switch with equal amount of storage to his phone nobody would buy the damn thing. Most people here already flipped their shit when the 300 price point was announced and screamed doom from the rooftops.
It's not like Nintendo wouldn't be able to put that much storage in their console. They want to sell said console though.

I would argue that "My phone has more storage than the Switch lulz" is even worse than PC world level marketing reasoning. Some wouldn't even consider it a "point" to be made for the reasons above.

You know this, but you've still typed that response.

I don't even know what your reasoning is there.

 

[Fafalada]

Devs have been releasing these insanely sized patches for a long time now and they need to cut that down.

Most of the time that's not the fault of the devs - platform tools that create deltas are mildly put - somewhere between inadequate and terrible, and yes, that's still the case in 2017.

 

[wonderful103]

*shrug*
It's not like BOTW is available elsewhere to compare anyway. What I had in mind was the A10X on the iPad Pro actually. It's smaller sibiling on the i7 Plus might struggle.

How much is an ipad pro, and does it throttle?