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[Deleted member 231381]

I wouldn't say the Evengelicals are a large voting block in relation to the US population, but their oversized influence is due to their voting habits and the party's 40 year strategy of spreading apathy and disillusionment propaganda to the general voting public.

I don't think it'll happen over there due to structural issues, but the US is a cautionary tale of the rise of powerful minority party/coalitions and how they change the playing field to stay in power.

If you told someone in the US in the 50s that the regional Evengelicals would be a tour de force in America politics in 21st century, they laugh at you. Now they're one step away from the Presidency.

Doesn't work like that here. DUP are strictly regional. At most, they'll only ever have 18 seats. Unionism is also very slowly declining in NI anyway, and under representative boundaries the DUP would only have won 7 of those 18 seats. This is a historical fluke rather than a sign of things to come.

 

[Anung]

Yuck.

Plus that extra billion must be coming off the money tree!

They saved that money on cladding.

 

[Frankfurter]

This is pretty much the textbook definition for Coalition of Chaos...

 

[Usobuko]

When there's no real repercussion to politician who look after their own interest over the nation. None.

 

[Chittagong]

Yuck.

Plus that extra billion must be coming off the money tree!

Three weeks of EU

 

[Daffy Duck]

So I asked a friend who is obviously a Tory voter and has been very public of his hatred of Corbyn, lambasting him over Glastonbury and his reponse to what his thoughts were left me dumbfounded...

I think political coalitions are a consequential failure of democracy. The Conservatives will not be able to implement their manifesto as a part of a coalition and every policy implemented will be a lukewarm compromise.

Theresa May does however have a constitutional duty to form a government (or call a second general election) and she's doing just that regardless of how unpalatable it is.

Unpalatable......

 

[PMurphy1978]

No money for the police, hospitals, armed forces, schools and so on. But there's 1 billion to BUY a (miniscule) parliamentary majority.

You couldn't make this shit up.

 

[CarlisleDavid1979]

Turns out coalition of chaos was projection

 

[Anung]

Turns out coalition of chaos was projection

Tory's were telling the truth about something. It's bizarre.

 

[suedester]

I don't get the outrage in this thread. Any political deal across the world essentially involves money?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I don't get the outrage in this thread. Any political deal across the world essentially involves money?

I don't think many are upset at the money being spent. What they're upset about is that:

a) the money is being spent grossly disproportionately. NI is receiving a 4.6% increase in spending in real terms when the rest of the country is seeing stagnation.
b) the Conservatives campaigned on Labour needing a magic money tree to fulfil their policies and that austerity was simply a necessity given the government had no spare funding; something that now comes across as gross hypocrisy.

 

[Goodlife]

I don't get the outrage in this thread. Any political deal across the world essentially involves money?

The Tories whole fucking campaign was "there's no money, we need to tighten our belts, austerity is the only way, Labour will bankrupt the country, there is no magic money tree"

And now they have found £1bn

 

[Maledict]

I don't get the outrage in this thread. Any political deal across the world essentially involves money?

This is totally different to how British democracy and parliament works. The idea of a regional bribe to stay in power is just... wrong. It would be like Trump falling 4 electoral votes short of the presidency, and then pumping billions of extra funding into Wyoming to get their votes and be president.

Its a naked bribe, and whilst parties obviously funnel funding to their own constituents and party politics to see it done so openly, to one specific region only, whose views are widely outside of the mainstream, is abhorrent.

 

[Charles Brandon]

This is where I'm at. This doesn't seem right at all.

The principle of it isn't that surprising. It's not at all uncommon for governments to grasp party political advantages by using their power to advance certain interests and we accept that and we accept that any coalition would involve certain policy concessions, as it did in 2010...but there is something that feels different about a demand for cold, hard cash being met in exchange for parliamentary votes. It's an unusual situation because it involves a regional party with correspondingly narrow objectives but it just fails the sniff test of what is normal politicking and what goes beyond that. I'm sure it's legal but it does stink.

 

[Rodelero]

£1bn understates the cost significantly given that part of this deal is the shelving of the triple lock and winter fuel payment changes. This is an enormously expensive bribe.

 

[suedester]

I don't think many are upset at the money being spent. What they're upset about is that:

a) the money is being spent grossly disproportionately. NI is receiving a 4.6% increase in spending in real terms when the rest of the country is seeing stagnation.
b) the Conservatives campaigned on Labour needing a magic money tree to fulfil their policies and that austerity was simply a necessity given the government had no spare funding; something that now comes across as gross hypocrisy.

No, what they are upset about is that this aids the Conservatives staying in power. If it was Corbyn offering financial incentives to the SNP to secure a majority I'm sure the response wouldn't be quite as partisan.

 

[Daffy Duck]

No, what they are upset about is that this aids the Conservatives staying in power. If it was Corbyn offering financial incentives to the SNP to secure a majority I'm sure the response wouldn't be quite as partisan.

The press would be ripping him a new one.

The political landscape in this country is a fucking shit stain.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

The thing is, this is a terrible move for the Conservatives in the long run. They won and defended seats like Mansfield - working class communities, suffering from the retreat of industry, an exodus of the young, and all the attendant problems of social decay. These are local communities, with a sense of pride and self-sufficiency. They're now going to be looking at however many more years of real-term stagnation while Northern Ireland gets generous largesse, and they will not be happy. At the same time, how are all of those Scottish Conservative MPs going to defend the careful sidestep of the Barnett formula? They did well by disassociating themselves with the national brand; this drags them in in a way they can't escape. I think the result of this will be a sharp drop in Conservative popularity.

This has possibly been the worst ever election win, in terms of consequences for the winner, I've ever seen. To paraphrase Pyrrhus, if the Conservatives are victorious in one more election over Labour, they shall be utterly ruined.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

No, what they are upset about is that this aids the Conservatives staying in power. If it was Corbyn offering financial incentives to the SNP to secure a majority I'm sure the response wouldn't be quite as partisan.

If Corbyn ensured that English, Welsh, and Northern Irish spending rose in proportion with anything offered to Scotland, nobody would be upset, no. However, the phrase 'in proportion' makes a crucial difference!

 

[suedester]

If Corbyn ensured that English, Welsh, and Northern Irish spending rose in proportion with anything offered to Scotland, nobody would be upset, no. However, the phrase 'in proportion' makes a crucial difference!

Scotland already receives more funding per head than the other countries and no one really makes much of a fuss about that.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Scotland already receives more funding per head than the other countries and no one really makes much of a fuss about that.

Actually, almost all the posters in this thread (or who will probably turn up in this thread) have remarked on how unfair this is in the past in UK PoliGAF threads - particularly me because I'm Welsh, but even our resident Scots like kmag and Audioboxer. So, no, that's not true.

 

[Uzzy]

Scotland already receives more funding per head than the other countries and no one really makes much of a fuss about that.

People kick up a fuss about the Barnett formula all the time. Hell, the Tax Payers Alliance kick off about it regularly. Here's a quote from them today:

Taxpayers resent politicians cooking up deals behind closed doors that invariably end with their cash being thrown wherever is politically advantageous rather than where it could be best spent. The unfair way in which money is allocated between the home nations has been clear for decades, best illustrated by the significantly higher levels of public spending in Scotland than in considerably poorer parts of England. But until there is a major decentralisation of tax raising powers, Westminster politicians will always have ultimate control of the purse strings and be able to dish out taxpayers’ cash in a way that benefits them more than the general public.

 

[Nokterian]

Holy shit this is bad..so bad for the UK.

 

[Heigic]

Cant give nurses a pay rise. Can find £1bn to form a government. Literally bought votes for £100m each.

 

[Plasma]

Selling her soul and the rest of the country to cling onto power.

 

[StayDead]

Holy shit this is bad..so bad for the UK.

Yup. Can't wait for The Troubles round 2!

I hope all of what's to come was worth it you complete and utter awful people.

 

[Jackpot]

Wales responds:

Today’s deal represents a straight bung to keep a weak prime minister and a faltering government in office. Only last week we were told that the priority was to ‘build a more united country, strengthening the social, economic and cultural bonds between England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.’ This deal flies in the face of that commitment and further weakens the UK, and as currently drafted all but kills the idea of fair funding for the nations and regions. It is outrageous that the prime minister believes she can secure her own political future by throwing money at Northern Ireland whilst completely ignoring the rest of the UK. I have spoken to the secretary of state for Wales this morning to clearly state my view at this unacceptable deal – as Wales’ voice at the cabinet table, he has a duty to fight against this deal and secure additional funding for our country.

 

[Daffy Duck]

This whole Brexit negotiation is going to be a ball to watch unfold, I hope May gets to stick around for it, watching her fumble through that will be a sight to behold.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Straight up bribe. Lmao

 

[Mr. Sam]

Yup. Can't wait for The Troubles round 2!

While I think the entire non-Irish British political spectrum (spare a thought for me having to think how to phrase that) underestimates just how fragile the peace in Ireland is, I don't think this will be the event to break it.

 

[StayDead]

This whole Brexit negotiation is going to be a ball to watch unfold, I hope May gets to stick around for it, watching her fumble through that will be a sight to behold.

That'll be hilarious, but the repercussions will not be. We're going to be fucked.

 

[Pandy]

So does this officially mean that the Tories have broken the Good Friday agreement?

They say it doesn't, but I'll be very, very interested to hear what Sinn Fein and the Irish Government think about it.

Basically irrelevant compared to the above, but I'd be surprised if this money isn't covered by Barnett, and therefore the whole of UK spending will have to be uplifted by whatever the relevant amount is.

 

[JoJo UK]

While I think the entire non-Irish British political spectrum (spare a thought for me having to think how to phrase that) underestimates just how fragile the peace in Ireland is, I don't think this will be the event to break it.

Agreed and to be honest only a few small few want to go backwards here, there is no appetite for reverting back to violence, plus it's been way too hot over the past few weeks here to even be thinking about physical activity.

 

[Tregard]

Would you look at that, the DUP managed to find enough money to recover from the RHI scandal!

As someone living near Belfast, I can't say it's not nice to hear about increased funding for NI services and "fast broadband". But I don't trust the DUP to know how to spend it properly, and it just continues to show their hypocrisy of acting like an island unto themselves when it suits (i.e. securing extra funding and not following the same gay marriage & abortion laws as the rest of the UK) and acting like part of the Union at other times (i.e. when the majority of NI voted to Remain and Arlene Foster essentially said "Don't be sore losers" because she was pro-Leave and the vote was national)

 

[Deleted member 231381]

They say it doesn't, but I'll be very, very interested to hear what Sinn Fein and the Irish Government think about it.

Not a legal expert, but at least from reading the GFA a few times, I don't think it does breach the GFA, at least in literal terms. Whether it breaches it in spirit is rather more important as far as the Catholic community is concerned.

Basically irrelevant compared to the above, but I'd be surprised if this money isn't covered by Barnett, and therefore the whole of UK spending will have to be uplifted by whatever the relevant amount is.

It's not covered by Barnett, since it isn't being put under the block grant. I mean, arguably it should be under Barnett, but Barnett was always closer to a gentleman's agreement than anything else.

 

[JoJo UK]

Would you look at that, the DUP managed to find enough money to recover from the RHI scandal!

As someone living near Belfast, I can't say it's not nice to hear about increased funding for NI services and "fast broadband". But I don't trust the DUP to know how to spend it properly, and it just continues to show their hypocrisy of acting like an island unto themselves when it suits (i.e. securing extra funding and not following the same gay marriage & abortion laws as the rest of the UK) and acting like part of the Union at other times (i.e. when the majority of NI voted to Remain and Arlene Foster essentially said "Don't be sore losers" because she was pro-Leave and the vote was national)

Maybe they could just write us all a cheque for £500 each!?

 

[Tregard]

Maybe they could just write us all a cheque for £500 each!?

That'd do me down to the ground, actually

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

I think this will do more harm than good for the cons in the long run.

No magic money tree nonsense for a start. Coalition of chaos as another. A right wing party aligning with a far right wing part. Slightly less wobbly short term in exchange for a really shakey long term.

"We share many values in terms of wanting to see prosperity across the UK, the value of the union, the important bond between the different parts of the UK,"

so they share value with practically everyone? Such a non-thing to say. They share shit all accept for their distain towards the poor and the different.

 

[Charles Brandon]

They say it doesn't, but I'll be very, very interested to hear what Sinn Fein and the Irish Government think about it.

Basically irrelevant compared to the above, but I'd be surprised if this money isn't covered by Barnett, and therefore the whole of UK spending will have to be uplifted by whatever the relevant amount is.

Barnett isn't legally binding. It can be ignored by the government and has been in the past, for example with the funding for London 2012. There will not be an adjustment for it and I would be surprised if there was much lobbying on this specific point because there is a lot of will to scrap the formula altogether.

 

[IaN_GAF]

I trust there will be large, ongoing protests?

Hm?

No?

 

[KarneeKarnay]

Fuck May.

 

[kmag]

Scotland already receives more funding per head than the other countries and no one really makes much of a fuss about that.

NI already receives more than Scotland per head.

England: £8,816 per cap
Scotland: £10,536
Wales: £9,996
N. Ireland: £10,983
Avg: £9,076

This adds on another £583 per head to the NI total.

The Tories seemed to be suddenly aware of the emergency situation in NI's infrastructure at about 10:02pm on the 8th of June.

 

[Chocolate & Vanilla]

Devolution of Corporation Tax is fucking ridiculous. Tax Haven pockets resulting in a race to the bottom.

 

[JoJo UK]

NI already receives more than Scotland per head.

England: £8,816 per cap
Scotland: £10,536
Wales: £9,996
N. Ireland: £10,983
Avg: £9,076

This adds on another £583 per head to the NI total.

The Tories seemed to be suddenly aware of the emergency situation in NI's infrastructure at about 10:02pm on the 8th of June.

I'm not a greedy man, as I said previously I'll be happy with £500. Come on Arlene!

EDIT: lol at your edit . I like that, will use that myself later.

 

[kmag]

Well that Tory renaissance in Scotland will be short lived at least.

 

[Pandy]

Not a legal expert, but at least from reading the GFA a few times, I don't think it does breach the GFA, at least in literal terms. Whether it breaches it in spirit is rather more important as far as the Catholic community is concerned.

Yes, I think a full coalition agreement would have formally broken it, whereas this merely breaks the spirit of it, as the UK Gov itself can still attempt to claim neutrality.

Barnett isn't legally binding. It can be ignored by the government and has been in the past, for example with the funding for London 2012. There will not be an adjustment for it and I would be surprised if there was much lobbying on this specific point because there is a lot of will to scrap the formula altogether.

The budget vote is still going to be very tight.

David Mundell was saying just the other day that any NI funding shouldn't happen like this, so unless they plan to leave the Scots Tories out to dry, the UK gov will have to give in to make it look like the Scots Tory MPs are worth something.

Not just about Scotland or Wales, of course. England should be getting a big chunk of money due to this too.

 

[Pandy]

EDIT: Double post.

Come on people, I was ages typing that on my phone. Pick up the pace.

 

[WhatNXt]

Every time this government abdicate their responsibility to do something good and moral, or fairer for our society, where the cost falls below £1bln - I expect our media to hold them to account. Every scandal that can be traced back to funding and continued austerity, I expect them to be held to account. I expect our media to hold them to account for the sake of the other regions more generally.

I'm not holding my breath, but they should.

Farron sums it up best:

"While our schools are crumbling and our NHS is in crisis, Theresa May chooses to throw cash at ten MPs in a grubby attempt to keep her cabinet squatting in Number 10."

£100m per seat / vote.

 

[Beefy]

Tories giving £1bn to terrorists. Fuck that shit

 

[Greddleok]

Waiting for the inevitable bus slogan:

We send £1 billion to NI every 2 years, let's fund our NHS instead!