joe_zazen
Member
Do you know this to be true? Heavy Rain, for example had no fail states, just different outcomes.
& do you not like fail states? Or just not ones dependant on correct button presses with a time element?
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Insomniac Games responds to the QTE criticism in Spider-Man for PS4
- Thread starter almostjuliuscaesar
- Start date
Do you know this to be true? Heavy Rain, for example had no fail states, just different outcomes.
& do you not like fail states? Or just not ones dependant on correct button presses with a time element?
Gravy Boat
Member
I don't, even If that's how you look at it. I see people complaining about having control taken away from them for the sake of a cinematic set piece.
You said you won't play games that require you to button mash. Why? It's just a few button presses.
NullPointer
Member
Do the QTEs in Spiderman lead to alternate outcomes if you miss the timing? If so, they didn't show it.
The_White_Rose
Member
Sounds good to me. I didn't expect anything different.
People are a little too defensive about games they haven't played.
joe_zazen
Member
It's tens of thousands or more in a button mashy game which a) makes it feel like skill is unimportant, & b) is more likely to cause repetitive strain injury. So, not at all the same.
Besides, Asura's Wrath made me love QTEs.
joe_zazen
Member
Just pointing out that QTEs can be used in different ways. It'd be neat if that was the case in SM.
Edit: sorry for back to back posts, poor form.
Gravy Boat
Member
And QTEs don't make it feel like skill isn't important? It's exactly the same.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
And that is exactly why QTEs are a failure of game design. If they aren't there, then nothing is lost. If they're there, but have a severe fail state, they are annoying and frustrating. If they aren't a severe fail state, they are useless.
QTEs were probably the shittiest "game design" trend popularized in gen 6 and 7, and I was glad to see them mostly gone this gen. Good thing I don't care about the Spiderman game, at least.
Because QTEs always suck. Never saw a single example of "QTEs done right", not once.
Absolutely nothing, of course.
What an asinine statement. You could literally apply this to every criticism of any type of gameplay ever.
eyeball_kid
Member
If it's a "set-piece blockbuster moment" whose intent is to feel cinematic, then just show a damn cutscene. Making players push buttons at the right time does nothing for immersion or player involvement, and actually only serves to take people out of experiencing all the detail you spent so much time on in your set piece because they're too busy watching for the next button prompt.
With great memes comes great responsibility.
Honestly though, they should just get rid of that whole cinematic BS set piece and make it gameplay. Screw the crane crap, just have us chase after the helicopter while dodging shit and eventually throw us into that burning building you have to run through to end it all.
All gameplay, everyone is happy, and the game is better for it. Easy. QTEs have always been a means of adding interactivity to cutscenes too long for their own good. Time to gut the crap and actually have us play the video game.
brickarts295
Member
Eh, don't really see the issue with this. Just felt like a God of War set piece moment to me.
Come on guys, it's a Spider-Man game, most of us are just going to play around in the open world most of the time.
Come on guys, it's a Spider-Man game, most of us are just going to play around in the open world most of the time.
joe_zazen
Member
Not to me. You have to hit the right buttons with time pressure. Button mashing is just randomly smashing buttons. I mean it's not brain surgery, but certain types of QTEs do require a little skill.
Sephiroth503
Member
Don't know why Insomniac even dignified that guy's tweet with a response. There are more polite ways to make your point but then it's twitter so I'm not surprised.
I have no problem with the QTEs, would rather that than a custscene.
I have no problem with the QTEs, would rather that than a custscene.
Gravy Boat
Member
Certain types of button mashing require skill too.
What QTEs have they shown that looked like they required skill?
Personal preference, what is it?
joe_zazen
Member
See, I really liked Asura's Wrath and Heavy Rain and thought they were goood games, so absolute statements like the above make me wonder where the hate comes from.
I think we have different definitions of button mashing. Asura's Wrath had lots, and the knife fight in RE4, iirc, wasn't a cakewalk.
Omotesando
Member
One of the best things in gaming last gen was pushing circle when killing Zeus. I need more of this with 4k graphics.
Gravy Boat
Member
How can you not understand people not liking the same things as you?
You're being obtuse if you think every post needs to start or end with IN MY OPINION to make it clear that a person is talking about their perspective and their opinion on the matter.
Allonym
There should be more tampons in gaming
Well the ones that require you to press a button at a specific time requires skill as it's not something that everyone who plays the game will excel at. The same can be said for the one where you have to rotate the analog stick and subsequently press a button. You may disagree but not all gamers share equal levels of skill, timing, reflexes or hand-eye coordination.
joe_zazen
Member
Not liking /= hate & demanding it doesn't exist because it is of absolutely no value.
Gravy Boat
Member
Read my edit. You're being purposeful obtuse and I don't get why.
joe_zazen
Member
I don't like a thing /= thing has no value and is always shit. Absolute statements are absolute: this thread has some that reject QTEs as good game design in all forms. I don't get that. That's all.
RollerMeister
Neo Member
I hope they will make the QTE's extremely lenient and drop the whole "shrinking circle timing" gimmick, because it's really distracting, which is a shame since it's supposed to be a "blockbuster set-piece moment".
Edit: Actually, if they added an option in the games settings to allow QTEs to autocomplete, then that would be the best of both worlds.
Edit: Actually, if they added an option in the games settings to allow QTEs to autocomplete, then that would be the best of both worlds.
More_Badass
Member
It doesn't work like that. Pace it right, link the actions onscreen with the related controls, and you create a sense of connection between your actions and the actions onscreen.
Just saying it's a cutscene with prompts is really reductive. Compare the games that did it in that shitty manner like Resident Evil 4 and how Insomniac implemented their design here, and the difference is massive
Cracklox
Member
After watching that trailer, I thought the kinda-slightly-but-not-really batman predator/combat stuff would get the most criticism. But here we are at QTE's. Again.
Now I really don't have, and really had a problem with them in games, so long as its making what would otherwise be impossible to convey with regular gameplay into something slightly more interactive then watching a cutscene
Now, one thing I see cited often by people who are against them is 'they don't like control being taken away'. Ok, fair enough I guess, but in place would you prefer a cutscene which is doing exactly the same thing (taking control away) but you can safely switch your brain to non-interactive mode and put the controller down?
I'm sorry if that sounds facetious, but I'm genuinely interested. Each for their own and live and let live and all that
Now I really don't have, and really had a problem with them in games, so long as its making what would otherwise be impossible to convey with regular gameplay into something slightly more interactive then watching a cutscene
Now, one thing I see cited often by people who are against them is 'they don't like control being taken away'. Ok, fair enough I guess, but in place would you prefer a cutscene which is doing exactly the same thing (taking control away) but you can safely switch your brain to non-interactive mode and put the controller down?
I'm sorry if that sounds facetious, but I'm genuinely interested. Each for their own and live and let live and all that
eyeball_kid
Member
I've never felt connected in the way you're describing to a QTE action scene, even in Yakuza 0 which I otherwise love. Every QTE I've played has taken me out of the moment. I don't know how pervasive my experience is, so I may be in the minority on that, but QTEs definitely reduce my enjoyment of the cinematic aspect of those moments.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
lol this. Jesus get a hold of yourself people.
Hope insomniac includes an easy mode for my babbys. And I hope they label it "babby mode" or "red balloon mode"
and Insomniac please ignore this thread and don't pull a Fuse on us.
anyways, is the behind doors E3 demo ready yet???? insom pls
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Did you play TLOU, Arkham Knight, or UC4?
Papo Swing
Member
People will complain about anything...
Give them full on cutscenes see what they say.
Give them full on cutscenes see what they say.
NullPointer
Member
What QTEs are in UC4?
UC4 is a nice example of getting big bombastic scenes without them. You do have to mash triangle at times, but that's consistent in their melee system. Event the ending boss battle was more a matter of new controls (triangle and circle to block attacks) than QTEs.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Do you not see all the people ITT saying that? We're not talking MGS4 cutscenes or hell even MGS5 cutscenes.
Look at the gif I posted a couple pages back to illustrate how seamlessly ND implements their QTEs.
There's also the final boss being one long QTE counter taken almost straight out of the order 1886...
Gravy Boat
Member
Tells people to get a hold of themselves, then calls them babies for not liking a specific design choice.
'Thank you'
Since people can't stop complaining about a vertical slice set piece built for e3
Alright cool, the only thing I was ehh about. Hype fully restored let's go!
xenorevlis
Member
Yeah I edited that it could be communicated better, but I don't follow about the prompt for webs to stick to the building using circle. When this happens Spidey is running and is evading the piece of crane that slams right in front of him. Hence dodging is the main movement, similar to how the crane portion starts with him doing jumps that swing him around the crane. This is stuff that is likely well beyond what you can achieve with regular player controls and the whole point for stuff like QTE until we can control stuff with our mind using Emotiv headsets or whatever as a norm
Agree that the button styles themselves should match more, but they need to design them in a variety of ways so its hopefully something they iron out.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
They really aren't that different. In both situations the sequence would be served just as well, if not better, if it was either fully controlled by the player or just a cut scene.
QTEs are always this weird half measure that takes away from the enjoyable parts of either a cut scene or game play and doesn't really add anything that couldn't be done in a more enjoyable way. If your aim is to create a sense of connection, you're going to do a better job by letting the player fully control the character, and if your aim is to convey something that can't be conveyed fully through game play, adding a couple button presses is just a nuisance that takes away from any spectacle that's being shown.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Circle is counter tho?
Also this is a bit unrelated but I hope there's a way to turn off that slowmo thing during encounters.
xenorevlis
Member
Circle is counter / dodge. Yes. He dodges out of the way of that piece of crane that smashes in front of him and also throws out some web to hold it there.
Since people can't stop complaining about a vertical slice set piece built for e3
Still can't believe that people thought the game would be anything otherwise. Talk about an overreaction.
Why does it have to be "nothing"? Why not just have actual gameplay with no cutscene BS at all? What better way to feel like you're "part of the action" then actually taking action by playing? Have we all forgotten the medium for which this is all taking place on? You know, video game?
More_Badass
Member
Cutscenes actually give the devs and players less options. And they're more jarring and break the flow of gameplay. Here, the devs can modulate, alter, and shift controls and scale as needed without being limited to regular gameplay and controls while remaining in-game. This segment switches from the complicated crane rescue to webswinging chase to collapsing interior to contextual dodging/fighting on the helicopter
And further more the two main prompted moments - saving the crane and saving the helicopter - use the same controls that the players use in regular gameplay (X to jump off the crane, shoulder buttons for webs)
And further more the two main prompted moments - saving the crane and saving the helicopter - use the same controls that the players use in regular gameplay (X to jump off the crane, shoulder buttons for webs)
Gravy Boat
Member
For some reason people see look at QTEs and see them as a choice between this or a cutscene, whereas I see it as a choice between QTEs and better designed set pieces.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
its a tiresome arguement for me. all the spiderman threads have been plagued with it over and over. I'm glad it has its own thread for it now, sounds like people need to vent. lol
also, I'm being serious in hoping they include an easy QTE mode/option now
for photomode
Gravy Boat
Member
Not tiresome enough if you're still actively getting involved in the discussion.
More_Badass
Member
Because feeling like the character is more than just playing and being in control 100% of the time. It's why Arkham's simpler freeflow combat captures Batman better than the more complicated beat-em-up style of older Batman games.
Sure, you could just have the player swing along the crane and do a loop around it to catch it or shoot some webs at it or something along those lines, but that's not really what Spider-Man would do in terms of acrobatics or actions based on what comics and cartoons and movies have shown us.
What's your point? It's a social media answer, QTEs are QTEs, news at 11.
xenorevlis
Member
I'm still waiting for all of you backseat game developers to give me a better designed way to handle all of this without any QTE involvement. Do it and go show Insomniac, who are this totally non-established noob developer and only use QTE because they don't know what you know when you repeat this stuff on a web forum.
The solution i am getting from your post is that they should have scrapped the whole Last min or two from the Gameplay segment , the Helicopter, cause i don't know how it would have played out in regular Gameplay mechanics or scenario.
Its still a spidey game and open world on top of that not linear , where there is a setpiece section every 30 min or so. I think it will be great to have those sections once in a while when you are bored with the Open world gameplay segment.