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[LoveCake]

It takes Theresa May three weeks and a £1b bribe to get a deal from ten DUP MP's, It doesn't say much for her Brexit negotiation skills going forward.

The strain on this deal is already at maximum, cannot see it lasting especially with the pressure from Wales, Scotland and the Republicans (Ireland).

 

[Moreche]

And I'm sure the DUP will make sure that most of that money will filter through their farming friend's and families, sub-contracting cash filled brown envelope friends in public services and the paramilitaries for the poverty stricken communities they represent.
And trust me, there's no poverty in the loyalist and nationalist areas of N.Ireland.
The DUP and Sinn-Fein are built on the foundations of a conflict that's filled with dirt. Bring back direct rule.
Fucking cunts!!!!

 

[pulsemyne]

It takes Theresa May three weeks and a £1b bribe to get a deal from ten DUP MP's, It doesn't say much for her Brexit negotiation skills going forward.

The strain on this deal is already at maximum, cannot see it lasting especially with the pressure from Wales, Scotland and the Republicans (Ireland).

She will ignore any welsh pressure after we gave the tories a kicking. It's scottish tories who could give her grief. Doubt it though.

 

[Desmond]

That's the GFA and Stormont shagged so. Fantastic.

 

[Violet_0]

I'm not super informed about British politics, but between the pretty devastating election result, terror attacks, the fallout from the Grenfell Tower fire and now a coalition with the Northern Ireland religious right-wing party, May has to be sitting in a very rocky boat right now?

 

[SlipperyFishes]

And I'm sure the DUP will make sure that most of that money will filter through their farming friend's and families, sub-contracting cash filled brown envelope friends in public services and the paramilitaries for the poverty stricken communities they represent.
And trust me, there's no poverty in the loyalist and nationalist areas of N.Ireland.
The DUP and Sinn-Fein are built on the foundations of a conflict that's filled with dirt. Bring back direct rule.
Fucking cunts!!!!

Direct rule would most definitely reignite some conflicts and as someone who grew up in a poverty stricken area I call you on your bullshit.

 

[Audioboxer]

I'm not super informed about British politics, but between the pretty devastating election result, terror attacks, the fallout from the Grenfell Tower fire and now a coalition with the Northern Ireland religious right-wing party, May has to be sitting in a very rocky boat right now?

May's boat has already sunk. She's floating on a new human-made raft crafted from people declared fit for work at their local testing facility.

 

[Pancake Mix]

They hyperbole in this thread is insane. The Irish government has said it's fine; they just hope that the DUP doesn't want a hard Brexit because the Irish government does not want an economic border.

The Irish Government, the Good Friday Agreement's co-guarantor, seems neutral on the DUP-Tory deal - & welcomes the DUP's Brexit role.

https://twitter.com/SJAMcBride/status/879322313799454722

Some are confused, the Good Friday Agreement does not require the British or Irish governments to be neutral on the status of Northern Ireland (as in whether they want it to be part of their country) the way you may think. Nothing has changed there. A British government confirming that they want the state to remain the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is not news. It also doesn't violate the spirit of the agreement, nor does gaining boatloads of additional funds for Northern Ireland.

 

[Pandy]

Yup, Scots Tories living up to their billing. Ach, well.

The big thing is England, though. Even if we take a few segments of the NI money and agree it relates to funding normally provided by the block grant (NHS money, for example), that should have resulted from a much, much bigger increase in funding in England.

And, yes, they've broken the spirit of the GFA.
If the DUP want something doing about the NI Assembly, and the UK Gov don't immediately agree, the DUP can threaten to bring the UK Gov down at the next vote of importance in the Commons. There can be no talk of neutrality while the DUP holds the keys to power in the UK.

 

[Pancake Mix]

And, yes, they've broken the spirit of the GFA.
If the DUP want something doing about the NI Assembly, and the UK Gov don't immediately agree, the DUP can threaten to bring the UK Gov down at the next vote of importance in the Commons. There can be no talk of neutrality while the DUP holds the keys to power in the UK.

Sinn Fein already did that this year with Stormont, did that violate the spirit of the GFA? Replace DUP with Sinn Fein and UK Gov with Northern Ireland Executive.

 

[Norwegian_Imposter]

That's different eleventh. SF weren't propping up the unions government. Wtf at defending this blatant bribery.

 

[Pancake Mix]

That's different eleventh. SF weren't propping up the unions government. Wtf at defending this blatant bribery.

Sure, but they were part of the mandatory coalition in the Northern Irish Assembly, whose devolved powers are very, very extensive. Without that Assembly, Northern Ireland cannot function except through direct rule, something Sinn Fein opposes more than any other major party.

Nothing will ever satisfy them. If your concern is the Good Friday Agreement, then the Irish government is what matters, not Sinn Fein, which is a smaller, fringe party there today and never included in any coalition. What Dublin is worried about is the border, not Northern Ireland getting more funding or some commentators reading things that were never there into the GFA, like that a party from part of a country cannot have influence in government or hold the balance of power at any time. That's not something that exists. Is there a conflict of interest? Sure, but it was a foreseeable one and one which happened not too long ago with the moderate UUP and the Tory's slim majority (and later minority) from 1992 to 1997. Pre-GFA perhaps, but if it makes you feel any better, the moderate SDLP (who lost all their seats to Sinn Fein and the DUP this election) would have propped up a slim Labour minority government, because they traditionally sit with Labour and take the Labour whip. Saying Northern Irish MP's can't ever hold the balance of power doesn't seem logical or fair.

 

[Theonik]

snip

OK...

affirm that whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland, the power of the sovereign government with jurisdiction there shall be exercised with rigorous impartiality on behalf of all the people in the diversity of their identities and traditions and shall be founded on the principles of full respect for, and equality of, civil, political, social and cultural rights, of freedom from discrimination for all citizens, and of parity of esteem and of just and equal treatment for the identity, ethos, and aspirations of both communities;

The principle of rigorous impartiality is a core ethos of the GFA which refers that no community Unionist or Nationalist shall be preferred when it comes to the sovereign government. Surely you can see how the coalition violates that. In addition. Calling SF a fringe party is bizarre. They are second in voteshare and seats in the NI assembly after the DUP and command a similar share of the vote. These are literally the two parties holding more than 50% of NI's voteshare. The breakdown in Stormont is not a simple matter here.

 

[Pancake Mix]

OK...

The principle of rigorous impartiality is a core ethos of the GFA which refers that no community Unionist or Nationalist shall be preferred when it comes to the sovereign government. Surely you can see how the coalition violates that. In addition. Calling SF a fringe party is bizarre. They are second in voteshare and seats in the NI assembly after the DUP and command a similar share of the vote. These are literally the two parties holding more than 50% of NI's voteshare. The breakdown in Stormont is not a simple matter here.

1. It's not a coalition. It's actually less cozy than Labour and the SDLP were, including sharing the Co-operative Party...before the SDLP lost all its seats to the DUP and Sinn Fein.

2. Sinn Fein is a fringe party in the Republic which is what I said, and they're not wanted in the inevitable coalition agreements that come up. I went over how they are a major party (second) in Northern Ireland and by the nature of mandatory coalition, in government or there is no government.

3. The mandatory coalition in Northern Ireland can see that the extra funding is allocated fairly to both communities...or it could if it was up and running.

4. The agreement means the following:

triple lock guarantee of at least a 2.5% rise in the state pension each year, and winter fuel payments, will be maintained throughout the UK.

That's the biggest effect for 97% of the population.

 

[Theonik]

1. It's not a coalition. It's actually less cozy than Labour and the SDLP were, including sharing the Co-operative Party...before the SDLP lost all its seats to the DUP and Sinn Fein.

2. Sinn Fein is a fringe party in the Republic which is what I said, and they're not wanted in the inevitable coalition agreements that come up. I went over how they are a major party (second) in Northern Ireland and by the nature of mandatory coalition, in government or there is no government.

1. Not being a coalition is not really the concern here. The problem is there is concerns of undue influence which is why the NI Greens are bringing a legal challenge to the deal. For some reason the Tories opted for making an official deal out of this either way that will bite them in the arse. Moreover, the GFA's goal is for the UK government to mediate even-handedly between unionists and nationalists. SDLP has not been a problem because of that nor was DUP until they entered a deal with the government. The real test here will be when the government tries to get Stormon back up that will likely go really badly now.

2. I misread your original post. The rest of my point still stands.

 

[Pancake Mix]

1. Not being a coalition is not really the concern here. The problem is there is concerns of undue influence which is why the NI Greens are bringing a legal challenge to the deal. For some reason the Tories opted for making an official deal out of this either way that will bite them in the arse. Moreover, the GFA's goal is for the UK government to mediate even-handedly between unionists and nationalists. SDLP has not been a problem because of that nor was DUP until they entered a deal with the government. The real test here will be when the government tries to get Stormon back up that will likely go really badly now.

The Irish government is the co-guarantor of the GFA and their statement I linked above is quite accepting of this, welcoming Northern Irish influence regarding Brexit.

 

[Daffy Duck]

IDS is full of shit, on BBC just now he's said it's not actually a billion, because half of the money was going to them anyway.

 

[Theonik]

The Irish government is the co-guarantor of the GFA and their statement I linked above is quite accepting of this, welcoming Northern Irish influence regarding Brexit.

But this is about NI, not the ROI, every political power in NI has spoken against the deal bar the DUP and has stated they would challenge the deal legally as having violated the GFA. This is not a simple matter.

 

[kmag]

1. It's not a coalition. It's actually less cozy than Labour and the SDLP were, including sharing the Co-operative Party...before the SDLP lost all its seats to the DUP and Sinn Fein.

2. Sinn Fein is a fringe party in the Republic which is what I said, and they're not wanted in the inevitable coalition agreements that come up. I went over how they are a major party (second) in Northern Ireland and by the nature of mandatory coalition, in government or there is no government.

3. The mandatory coalition in Northern Ireland can see that the extra funding is allocated fairly to both communities...or it could if it was up and running.

4. The agreement means the following: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40403434 That's the biggest effect for 97% of the population.

Sinn Fein are not a fringe party in the ROI. They're the 3rd party. It's a strange definition of fringe when they get over half the votes of the largest party.

 

[Juicy Bob]

So, another election, lads?

 

[Acorn]

So, another election, lads?

Eventually. I doubt the tories want to go to the electorate before brexit though after what happened in this recent election.

 

[Tregard]

Sinn Fein being involved in bringing down Stormont has a lot to do with the DUP' RHI scandal, it should be said

 

[Vagabundo]

2. Sinn Fein is a fringe party in the Republic which is what I said, and they're not wanted in the inevitable coalition agreements that come up. I went over how they are a major party (second) in Northern Ireland and by the nature of mandatory coalition, in government or there is no government.n.

Sinn Fein were a fringe party here, but not any more. Similar to how UKIP got the Tories to freak out they have managed to put the willies up FF and are now seen as the defacto opposition or at least co-opposition with FF. Its all a big volatile since the minority government was formed with the help of FF.

But the shinners are no long a fringe party here.

Sinn Fein being involved in bringing down Stormont has a lot to do with the DUP' RHI scandal, it should be said

As always with Sinn Fein it was tactical not on principle. They are probably one of the most politically ruthless parties on this island.

 

[OG Kush]

I'm very ignorant on the history of Ireland/Northern Ireland/UK etc. Is there a good documentary that explains that whole history?

 

[faridmon]

Yet, somehow Tory voters will justify their actions when deep down they know they know they fucked.

I am appalled on what is happening to this country.

 

[KimiNewt]

This is totally different to how British democracy and parliament works. The idea of a regional bribe to stay in power is just... wrong. It would be like Trump falling 4 electoral votes short of the presidency, and then pumping billions of extra funding into Wyoming to get their votes and be president.

Its a naked bribe, and whilst parties obviously funnel funding to their own constituents and party politics to see it done so openly, to one specific region only, whose views are widely outside of the mainstream, is abhorrent.

This happens every single election in Israel (where it is far more likely because there are more parties and the biggest only gets a quarter of the vote). It's obviously bad but it's one of the flaws of proportional representation.

 

[Vagabundo]

I'm very ignorant on the history of Ireland/Northern Ireland/UK etc. Is there a good documentary that explains that whole history?

Depends on what you want to focus on. It was the centenary of the 1916 rising recently which gave rise to the current partition and Irish Republic: https://1916.rte.ie/. Heres a good one on the 1916 easter rising: http://1916.nd.edu/1916-the-irish-rebellion/

Before that there is about 700 years of history, risings, plantations, wars etc that that lead to the political climate and population demographics that lead to the rising and its aftermath. Ireland and Britain have had a complicated relationship.

After the rising and partition there was the Troubles, started with Civil rights marches by Catholics in the north and turned into a sectarian feud that is still on simmer in many parts of the north of Ireland.

 

[Daffy Duck]

Yet, somehow Tory voters will justify their actions when deep down they know they know they fucked.

I am appalled on what is happening to this country.

Indeed, as I posted yesterday a friend of mine literally thinks Corbyn is the most dangerous man in the world, and when I questioned him on the DUP deal, he didn't say anything other than how pissed off he is that nurses moan about money.....nothing about the awful views of the DUP or anything, totally sidestepped.

 

[Acorn]

They told me if I voted Labour I'd get a coalition of chaos with terrorist sympathisers and that's exactly what happened!

👌 Bravo

 

[Dougald]

Indeed, as I posted yesterday a friend of mine literally thinks Corbyn is the most dangerous man in the world, and when I questioned him on the DUP deal, he didn't say anything other than how pissed off he is that nurses moan about money.....nothing about the awful views of the DUP or anything, totally sidestepped.

Yeah they only work long hours saving lives, why would they want their wages to keep pace with inflation.. Does he think nurses are all millionaires or something?

 

[Pandy]

This happens every single election in Israel (where it is far more likely because there are more parties and the biggest only gets a quarter of the vote). It's obviously bad but it's one of the flaws of proportional representation.

I wouldn't call it a 'flaw', so much as a loophole that can be exploited if the rules aren't tight enough.

The DUP persuading the Tories to spend extra money isn't a bad thing in itself. The only issue is that the increased spending isn't being matched across the UK, as it should be.

 

[danowat]

Is there anyone, outside of the government, who actually thinks this is a good idea?.

I was speaking to a Tory supporter yesterday who tried to justify it by saying "well, we spend so much on the EU, this doesn't matter, it's a drop in the ocean".

So much spin............

 

[Kurtofan]

confidence tricks and supply 1 billion pounds

 

[faridmon]

Indeed, as I posted yesterday a friend of mine literally thinks Corbyn is the most dangerous man in the world, and when I questioned him on the DUP deal, he didn't say anything other than how pissed off he is that nurses moan about money.....nothing about the awful views of the DUP or anything, totally sidestepped.

Nurses are one of the jobs that deserve a rise in payment because of the amount of hard work they do. Is your friend rich by any chance? What does he think of the stress and the strain put on the NHS, which could very well affect his health situation?

 

[Daffy Duck]

Yeah they only work long hours saving lives, why would they want their wages to keep pace with inflation.. Does he think nurses are all millionaires or something?

I have no idea....I thought he was better than that.

Nurses are one of the jobs that deserve a rise in payment because of the amount of hard work they do. Is your friend rich by any chance? What does he think of the stress and the strain put on the NHS, which could very well affect his health situation?

Not as far as I know.

 

[danm999]

How anymore thinks a government which blew a comfortable majority and double digit poll numbers forcing it to hand over billions of pounds to a 10 seat party of fringe lunatics is going to not be completely castrated by the world's largest trading bloc representing hundreds of millions of people is beyond me.

Shit even if you agreed with Brexit and wanted it to go ahead how is May's governments pathetic attempts at navigating even U.K. Politics not sending shivers down the spine.

 

[Theonik]

The only issue is that the increased spending isn't being matched across the UK, as it should be.

Wait for the Tories submitting a budget to implement their part of the deal. I'm sure Scott Tories will have issue with that bit of the bargain.

 

[kmag]

Wait for the Tories submitting a budget to implement their part of the deal. I'm sure Scott Tories will have issue with that bit of the bargain.

They don't. We had a new Scottish Tory MP wheeled out on Good Morning Scotland this morning frantically trying to defend the deal.

 

[nekkid]

I'm not super informed about British politics, but between the pretty devastating election result, terror attacks, the fallout from the Grenfell Tower fire and now a coalition with the Northern Ireland religious right-wing party, May has to be sitting in a very rocky boat right now?

She'd be out right now if the Conservatives had anybody else even moderately capable.

 

[_Rob_]

She'd be out right now if the Conservatives had anybody else even moderately capable.

You know it's bad when May is the best of a bad situation.

 

[Mr. Sam]

I feel like the Tories are using May as a piece of kitchen roll at the moment - use her to wipe up all the bad stuff and then chuck her in the bin. "Oh, yes, wasn't all that awful? But don't mind that now, we've got a brand new shiny Boris Johnson and he's not to blame for anything."

 

[Theonik]

They don't. We had a new Scottish Tory MP wheeled out on Good Morning Scotland this morning frantically trying to defend the deal.

The problem is that May only needs a couple of rebels to have her budget shot down. It's a very dangerous game even if some Scott Tories do approve.

 

[ultratruman]

Imagine if the tables had turned, and Corbyn was making a £1.5bn deal with Sinn Fein.

 

[Mindwipe]

Fallon trying to pitch this as socialism this morning. Lol.

NI already gets the highest spend per capita of the UK. This item wasn't costed into the Conservative manifesto. Who does he think he's trying to kid???

 

[mo60]

I feel like the Tories are using May as a piece of kitchen roll at the moment - use her to wipe up all the bad stuff and then chuck her in the bin. "Oh, yes, wasn't all that awful? But don't mind that now, we've got a brand new shiny Boris Johnson and he's not to blame for anything."

The tories are not going to risk letting a MP who won their seat by slightly over 5 k votes in June 8th be their leader.Boris will lose his seat in a labour landslide.

 

[Oriel]

Sinn Fein are in an interesting situation with this S&C deal between the DUP and Tories. They've long argued for extra funding for the North so with an extra wedge of cash going to Stormont now it'll be tricky for them to suddenly oppose this.

The only thing now stopping a return to devolved rule is whether SF drop their demand for Foster to step down. They'll likely be forced to capitulate on this. Although they might be able to extract a concession in the form of a public enquiry into the Cash-For-Ash scandal.

 

[ultratruman]

The tories are not going to risk letting a MP who won their seat by slightly over 5 k votes in June 8th be their leader.Boris will lose his seat in a labour landslide.

Hammond would be a better choice

 

[Uzzy]

Hammond would be a better choice

Yeah, he'd easily be viewed as the only adult in the room, compared to Boris, Gove or Leadsom. Stephen Crabb might run again, and Ruth Davidson is likely to support him.

If Crabb got in then we'd finally have a new bearded Prime Minister, so that'd nice.

 

[Oriel]

1.

2. Sinn Fein is a fringe party in the Republic which is what I said, and they're not wanted in the inevitable coalition agreements that come up. I went over how they are a major party (second) in Northern Ireland and by the nature of mandatory coalition, in government or there is no government.

WTF are you talking about?! SF is the third largest party in the Dail and repeatedly mentioned as potential coalition partners after recent elections in Ireland. They're far from a fringe party, boasting hundreds of thousands of members, hundreds of councillors, a third of MEP's in Ireland and nearly half of NI's Commons seats. Ridiculous attempt at underrating Sinn Fein.

 

[HazySaiyan]

And I'm sure the DUP will make sure that most of that money will filter through their farming friend's and families, sub-contracting cash filled brown envelope friends in public services and the paramilitaries for the poverty stricken communities they represent.
And trust me, there's no poverty in the loyalist and nationalist areas of N.Ireland.
The DUP and Sinn-Fein are built on the foundations of a conflict that's filled with dirt. Bring back direct rule.
Fucking cunts!!!!

Do you want the Troubles to start up again, because they will if you bring direct rule back