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If fighting games want to be mainstream esports, they need less fanservice

Worse things (sexual, violent, etc.) can be found on TV. Not a big deal in my view. Disney might be a different case due to its family friendly image, but if they offered to air that on TV then it's on them to review the type of content in the game and determine if it's appropriate to their viewers and shareholders.
 

Lyte Edge

All I got for the Vernal Equinox was this stupid tag
SFV finals were on Disney XD.

From that alone, it looks like Capcom has very different plans on the direction of Street Fighter than you. I guess Capcom is being "hypersensitive" too though.

Obviously Capcom has some involvement here, but "SFV" wasn't on ESPN and Disney XD-- Evolution 2017 was.
 

Puruzi

Banned
The fact that it even aired on Disney XD means that fanservice means fuck all

If a costume is too skimpy for TV use a different one when it's on air, end.
 

Anth0ny

Member
What if, instead of an EVO stage, each character got an EVO costume? Like a uniform, for an actual sporting event.

Edit: Beaten^

the females would probably need breast reduction surgery as well or it really won't make much of a difference to espn

2994014-sfv_1pqsyj.jpg

i'm not sure any costume makes chun in sfv look less "fanservicy"
 

Nephtes

Member
Obviously Capcom has some involvement here, but "SFV" wasn't on ESPN and Disney XD-- Evolution 2017 was.

Of which Capcom, makers of Street Fighter, are big sponsers.
It's part of the Capcom Pro Tour is it not?
Which is for the purposes of showing off and gaining interest in:
Street Fighter V.
 

Korigama

Member
I really doubt it. They're betting hard on the esport scene and want some of that sweet sweet dollar LoL is making through it and maybe they are figuring out that if they want to be bigger they might need to one it down a bit. Leave the really skimpy outfits for the alts at least.
I'd say that outfits are the least of Capcom's problems if they're concerned with having a bigger eSports preference (consumer dissatisfaction with SFV as a product in general seems to be the real issue there, and it's rare they can ever show off or discuss MvC:I without that yielding a negative response).
 
TV is dying. Who cares if ESPN can or can't show certain outfits? Streaming is the future of live events. I see no reason to censor outfits because of some arbitrary policy ESPN has. The only reason EVO is even on ESPN is because the network is desperately trying to remain reliant. Their viewership has dwindling year after year. Esports doesn't needs kowtow to the likes of ESPN. Esports will continue to grow with or without the support of broadcast television.

I think the point worth considering though is just what EVO airing on ESPN and Disney XD implies. Even if streaming is the future. Even if more people streamed on Twitch than watched on cable (I don't know, I don't have the numbers for both to compare), there's still a significant note here that this stuff is breaking into the mainstream. And if it is, is it perhaps worth considering that a PG approach might be more appropriate?

I'll reiterate that I feel like this is an easily solved problem. Fanservice (or even over the top violence) is not integral to top level competitive play. Tame default outfits shouldn't really be a hindrance to anyone that gives a shit about watching top pros duke it out. I think just having esport/PG mode and normal mode solves this issue entirely.
 
I'd say that fanservice is the least of Capcom's problems if they're concerned with having a bigger eSports preference (consumer dissatisfaction with SFV as a product in general seems to be the real issue there, and it's rare they can ever show off or discuss MvC:I without that yielding a negative response).

Yep, that's where Capcoms real problem lies.

We all know SFV needs a Super relaunch.

People hate the season 2 Additional Characters. MvCI is already written off as a mobile game with DLC.
They're in a pretty rotten standing with the core crowd.
 

mollipen

Member
Why do we call it "fan service" when we all know it's just tits for horny nerds?

That's the worst part, to me. Just be honest about it.

Damn, to find out I'm nothing more than a horny nerd from GAF. :(

And to also find out the male gay players out there who enjoy fan service alts simply don't exist.
 

DrArchon

Member
i'm not sure any costume makes chun in sfv look less "fanservicy"

Probably not, but ESPN and Disney seemed fine with Classy Dress Chun-Li and didn't force a switch there. Or maybe they caught wind ahead of time that Chun-Li was going to be picked and caught them off at the pass and forced them to take the best choice. Who knows?
 

Lyte Edge

All I got for the Vernal Equinox was this stupid tag
Take notes.
One outfit is comfortable and easy to move in. It shows skin but it is neccasary.
One outfit is riding into an asscrack amd showing as much ass as possible for the sole reason of giving you a boner.

There are plenty of examples of female athletes with exposed rear-ends.
man-o-man.jpg

C5XD0CvWAAAv_PF.jpg
 

danmaku

Member
Snarky comments aside, I think the solution of having different costumes is perfectly viable and doesn't really ruin anyone's fun. It could be a problem for sprite-based games, though.
 

7Th

Member
LoL is as mainstream as it gets and it has a bunch of corny DOA-tier designs; then again, you can barely see them due to the top-down format.
 
Yeah Overwatch and League of Legends def aren't horny. Totally. Titties is probably reason #502 on why SF V isn't taking off. And as people have said, Mortal Kombat was many times worse a decade or so ago or even in MK9.

Dragon Ball FighterZ is going to eat everyone's cake and the subject matter doesn't preclude itself to fanservice.

Saying that DBZF doesn't have fanservice - the game that takes attacks directly from manga panels - is pretty ridiculous. Like I know what you mean, but fanservice really means two things - titillation or a fetishistic dedication to authenticity that only hardcore fans will appreciate.
 
Yeah Overwatch and League of Legends def aren't horny. Totally.



Saying that DBZF doesn't have fanservice - the game that takes attacks directly from manga panels - is pretty ridiculous. Like I know what you mean, but fanservice really means two things - titillation or a fetishistic dedication to authenticity that only hardcore fans will appreciate.
In the context of this thread it's pretty damn clear what I meant.
 

Lyte Edge

All I got for the Vernal Equinox was this stupid tag
Of which Capcom, makers of Street Fighter, are big sponsers.
It's part of the Capcom Pro Tour is it not?
Which is for the purposes of showing off and gaining interest in:
Street Fighter V.

Yes, I know when I watched Smash Bros. For Wii U on ESPN, I was thinking of Street Fighter V the entire time.
 

mollipen

Member
What's your compelling alternate definition?

Something that doesn't exclude everyone who isn't a straight male, and that doesn't just instantly assume you're a nerd and/or horny because you may like or appreciate fan service?
 

Lyte Edge

All I got for the Vernal Equinox was this stupid tag
What is the context of that second one? It looks like a photoshoot rather than an event.

Perhaps it is. I was googling this stuff on my phone real quick. It said she was a gymnast and it's clearly a Sports Illustrated shoot. I'm sure I can find another shot, but I think what I posted is enough, lol.
 

jtb

Banned
Isn't it telling that people are too ashamed to refer to and/or defend gratuitous tits and ass in games on their own terms and hide behind owellian doublespeak like "fanservice"? Maybe if you can't defend it as what it is.... you should be open to the alternative!

Something that doesn't exclude everyone who isn't a straight male, and that doesn't just instantly assume you're a nerd and/or horny because you may like or appreciate fan service?

What? How is that a definition for "fan service"? Fan service is stuff that makes fan service fans happy is not a definition, it's a tautology.
 

fhqwhgads

Member
Perhaps it is. I was googling this stuff on my phone real quick. It said she was a gymnast and it's clearly a Sports Illustrated shoot. I'm sure I can find another shot, but I think what I posted is enough, lol.
Fair dues. The first pic is half valid, i can accept exposed skin for comfort. It's still not to the extreme of Cammy or Mika who have their entire rears on display and i doubt that outfit is going out of the way to show her breasts off.
 

XenoRaven

Member
I'd be cool if they would be more conservative with the default costumes and go wild with the alts. Then just ban certain alts for major tournament events.
 

Puruzi

Banned
Isn't it telling that people are too ashamed to refer to and/or defend gratuitous tits and ass in games on their own terms and hide behind owellian doublespeak like "fanservice"? Maybe if you can't defend it as what it is.... you should be open to the alternative!



What? How is that a definition for "fan service"? Fan service is stuff that makes fan service fans happy is not a definition, it's a tautology.
Nobody's too ashamed about it, fanservice is just what it got called. People that don't like tits and ass in video games use it too so it's not a defense. Why is it even an issue lmao
 
i agree that there is a weird aversion to sex and nudity in this country, but I also think the over the top sexual objectification of female characters in a predominately male dominated industry is embarrassing, and stages like EVO on ESPN only serve to highlight that and reinforce the stigma that video games are for immature, horny manchildren.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
TV is dying. Who cares if ESPN can or can't show certain outfits? Streaming is the future of live events. I see no reason to censor outfits because of some arbitrary policy ESPN has. The only reason EVO is even on ESPN is because the network is desperately trying to remain reliant. Their viewership has dwindling year after year. Esports doesn't needs kowtow to the likes of ESPN. Esports will continue to grow with or without the support of broadcast television.
It's about advertisers. This is why you see things like the Overwatch League popping up, because publishers want better quality advertisers.
 
Gief and Dhalsim are both almost naked, but ESPN didn't care about it.

That weird sexist obsession against female nudity is an American issue. The rest of the world doesn't care.
 
I think the point worth considering though is just what EVO airing on ESPN and Disney XD implies. Even if streaming is the future. Even if more people streamed on Twitch than watched on cable (I don't know, I don't have the numbers for both to compare), there's still a significant note here that this stuff is breaking into the mainstream. And if it is, is it perhaps worth considering that a PG approach might be more appropriate?

I'll reiterate that I feel like this is an easily solved problem. Fanservice (or even over the top violence) is not integral to top level competitive play. Tame default outfits shouldn't really be a hindrance to anyone that gives a shit about watching top pros duke it out. I think just having esport/PG mode and normal mode solves this issue entirely.


I think this misses the emotional investment people make in their fighting game character, and in fighting game culture in general.

Characterization has always been one of FG's strongest selling points.
Christ look at SFII, it knocks it out of the park.
The New Challengers are a bit weaker, but Cammy herself is the strongest one and seen as equal to the Original Line up.

I know so many people, who have specific characters, or Archetypes they play. Sometimes it reflects in real life. Gay guys playing sassy femme fatale vamps, girls loving Chun's strength, inherently boring people playing Guile, Daigo literally being Ryu.

Look at the reaction to Abigail, people can't stand the design, it makes them not want to play. They're barely talking the mechanics at all.

That's a truly problematic design from the gen public POV I'd reckon, as it just looks stupid.
Of course, since I'm 20 something years deep, maybe I can't see the wood from the tree when it comes to SF, but honestly, I don't think the main characters are a problem at all in this game.


(Except ken, he pisses off casuals who remember him from childhood. Why is he wearing underarmour")
 

jtb

Banned
Well, if there's sexual objectification in real life, that must mean it's all good!

Nobody's too ashamed about it, fanservice is just what it got called. People that don't like tits and ass in video games use it too so it's not a defense. Why is it even an issue lmao

Because it's dishonest and appalling?

If nothing else, it reinforces concepts of who "fans" are.
 

Lyte Edge

All I got for the Vernal Equinox was this stupid tag
Gief and Dhalsim are both almost naked, but ESPN didn't care about it.

That weird sexist obsession against women nudity is an American issue. The rest of the world doesn't care.

If you want to get into it, the most nubile character in Street Fighter is Urien (SF3 version/outfit).
 

ironmang

Member
Doesn't ESPN have "the body issue" that they're often promoting? That's a whole lot more revealing than anything in SF.

Not that having some more... conservative costumes is a bad thing. Just was so awkward seeing some guy come up and tell kaz to switch costumes in the middle of a match.
 
TV is dying. Who cares if ESPN can or can't show certain outfits? Streaming is the future of live events. I see no reason to censor outfits because of some arbitrary policy ESPN has. The only reason EVO is even on ESPN is because the network is desperately trying to remain reliant. Their viewership has dwindling year after year. Esports doesn't needs kowtow to the likes of ESPN. Esports will continue to grow with or without the support of broadcast television.

Espn doesn't need street fighter. Espn has exclusive content deals with the two biggest sports leagues in America. Yes they were hit hard by cord cutters, but they will be just fine. If esports really want to grow and become more mainstream, which is stands to reason is the goal, they need espn and their viewers far more than espn needs them.
 

jtb

Banned
I feel like you're not even beginning to understand what I'm saying.

I understand that you say you're not jacking off to fighting games. Okay. That doesn't really have anything to do with the merits, or lack thereof, of "fan service."
 
Doesn't ESPN have "the body issue" that they're often promoting? That's a whole lot more revealing than anything in SF.

Not that having some more... conservative costumes is a bad thing. Just was so awkward seeing some guy come up and tell kaz to switch costumes in the middle of a match.

The Body Issue is presented as artistic, and features just as many butt naked burly men as women. All that said, there is definitely an issue with objectification in the sports industry as there is in video games. Both are very male driven and similar in that regard. I'm willing to bet exposure/ratings/coverage for women athletes and sports is driven a lot more by looks and attractiveness than their male counterparts.
 
Gief and Dhalsim are both almost naked, but ESPN didn't care about it.

Is this accurate? I didn't watch the Street Fighter top 8, but I was just jumping around trying to look at who picked what rather quickly. The Dhalsim I saw had a baggy shorts outfit, and the Zangief costume seemed to be a fully clothed and not the classic wrestling briefs outfit.
 

moeman

Member
That top one is a shop:


This is why the argument is so ridiculous. The person who posted that picture literally showed why this is a problem with video games. The volleyball player was edited to be more sexualized just like how they are in many video games.

If your argument boils down to "but other industries/media do it" or "gore is ok but tits aren't?", then your argument is weak and reductionist. People who are criticizing the overt sexualization of females in games aren't turning a blind eye to mindless violence and other forms of entertainment. The topic on hand specifically pertains to objectifying of women in video games and why it is a problem there.

I dont want to play games with heavy sexualization of female characters, and I don't think I'm in the minority. It's OK if others do want fan service, there's nothing wrong with that. But games have hit the mainstream, and if competitive gaming wants to be taken seriously by a larger population, then developers should consider their views on how they portray their characters in games.
 
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