BassForever
Member
Maybe if you only play a small selection of AAA games every year. Of all years this gen to complain about this 2017 has been so stacked with creative games it's kinda laughable.
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This is the poorest generation of all time at creative standpoint...
- Thread starter Angel_DvA
- Start date
Icedburden
Member
One whole hour, huh?
It's always the same.
"This gen is uncreative."
"This gen has no passion in and all the games look the same"
"Everything was better during MY favorite gen"
"This gen didn't wow me like the previous gens back when I was an easily impressionable child"
How many times do we have to keep hearing this?
"This gen is uncreative."
"This gen has no passion in and all the games look the same"
"Everything was better during MY favorite gen"
"This gen didn't wow me like the previous gens back when I was an easily impressionable child"
How many times do we have to keep hearing this?
TheDarkKnight774
Member
And people have always been saying this. I've heard it back in the PS2 era too. Even PSOne from people upset at the move to 3D.
Theslammer
Member
I mostly game on PS4 and this is around where I stand.
The great thing about getting older is remembering how often you hear these discussions as others get older as well. I remember gaming in the PS2 days, wanting to talk about an old game on a GameFAQs board and seeing, "They don't make them like they used to," or, "I don't bother with games nowadays." Heard it last gen, especially when Kinect released. Hearing it now.
Freeman76
Member
You are wasting your time posting something like this on GAF.
Here games like Horizon which practically copy every aspect of open world games before them are hailed as GOAT, and anyone speaking against them is balled out over it.
Maybe try some indies man, there are plenty of fresh ideas, just not really in AAA.
Also going forward I expect a lot of improvements with genres will come from advanced AI rather than new genres emerging themselves.
Here games like Horizon which practically copy every aspect of open world games before them are hailed as GOAT, and anyone speaking against them is balled out over it.
Maybe try some indies man, there are plenty of fresh ideas, just not really in AAA.
Also going forward I expect a lot of improvements with genres will come from advanced AI rather than new genres emerging themselves.
BassForever
Member
Probably until you stop reading what gamers think on message boards and social media
Quality has nothing to do with creativity. Just because you didn't like something doesn't mean its not creative.
And how are the gameplay mechanics not creative? You can't even find me a linear corridor game that gives you as much control over your character as you get in an open world game like MGSV. MGSV is pretty much the definition of both creative stealth and creative open world games for this gen.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Look at the film industry and you see what will happen to the games industry (and is already happening). It's simply a result of ever increasing cost, you have to play it safe, otherwise you might be out of business after the first flop. Remakes and remasters exist because what was successful for one generation of gamers is more likely to be successful for a new generation of gamers. Same goes for sequels. You can still be successful with new ideas, but it is much more risky. That being said, I have never played as many games as in the last two years. Not as a kid, not when I was unemployed, never. Part of that is that games nowadays are much much much more easy than ever before. Most of the time you follow an indicator that shows you where to go, then it tells you what to do (taking all elements of surprise away, just stating "beat 3 waves of enemies to progress"), rinse and repeat. But I can't say I dislike it. I am a casual now.
Ive almost given up on better AI..
Last game that wowed me with it's AI was Fear and that was over a decade ago. I also figured AI would make story telling more interesting by now instead of being so scripted.. but that also hasn't happened.
We've had games like The Last Guardian, Gravity Rush 2, Prey, Horizon Zero Dawn, Nier Automata, and For Honor come out recently, let alone the vast indie space with games like Edith Finch and The Witness, and games these days aren't unique? Like, if you're only playing the most popular AAA games, I suppose you could make that conclusion, but come on, branch out a little. There's so many unique and fantastic games that have come out within the year, let alone this gen. Branch out a little.
Uno Venova
Banned
This generation is already much better than the 7th gen.
MehsterChief
Member
I still think you have a very narrow concept of what indie games are.
Yes, there are a lot of retro games. Often times though, they bring back concepts long abandoned by AAA games. Look at a game like Super Meat Boy, which sure looks retro. The tightness of the controls and the speedrunning aspect alone make it stand out. Or all those retro crpgs like divinity or wasteland which played really great.
And walking simulators are the opposite of creativity? Have you seen the amazing design of the landscape in Firewatch? Have you experienced the brilliant way gameplay and narrative come together in What Remains of Editch Finch? The fantastic writing in Dear Esther? I could go on and on.
And there are so many indies out there that do things completely different. Banished, Rimworld, Kentucky Route, Zero, Rocket League, The Witness, Amnesia and so on and so forth. Seems to me you're looking at graphic fidelity only to rate a titles' merits, which is really not the way to go because you are missing out on so many unique experiences.
justjustin
Member
Saying indies is where all the creativity is at favors OPs argument (minus the "of all time" part-- really?). The biggest studios with the most money, talent and time are having trouble competing-- culturally, critically-- with people's cool, fun art projects.
That's not a jab at indies; making games is seriously hard work at any scale. That the fresh ideas are showing up in the indie field is basically a failing of the artform. You get scattered bits of genius across hundreds of cheap, underfunded titles. Indie teams are small so they can only do "this new, cool thing!" really well, and will never reach the possibilities of making a bigger, more ambitious, more complete world. They get pigeonholed into niche, gimmicky genres. The big studios are so afraid of failure they make giant, repetitive, time-filling games and sequels. Of course, you get the genius game every once and a while, but, overall-- yeah, what a waste.
Maybe a better argument is: This is the most fractured generation of all time at a creative standpoint.
That's not a jab at indies; making games is seriously hard work at any scale. That the fresh ideas are showing up in the indie field is basically a failing of the artform. You get scattered bits of genius across hundreds of cheap, underfunded titles. Indie teams are small so they can only do "this new, cool thing!" really well, and will never reach the possibilities of making a bigger, more ambitious, more complete world. They get pigeonholed into niche, gimmicky genres. The big studios are so afraid of failure they make giant, repetitive, time-filling games and sequels. Of course, you get the genius game every once and a while, but, overall-- yeah, what a waste.
Maybe a better argument is: This is the most fractured generation of all time at a creative standpoint.
Duxxy3
Member
In terms of AA/AAA games this generation has been terrible. This is the first generation where I just kept playing previous generation games because the current generation just doesn't offer what I want. Not in the quantity that I want.
This generation has been more focused on open world games, which I generally loathe. More of an emphasis on games as a service, which I don't care about. More of an emphasis on multiplayer, which I very rarely give a shit about.
Single player shooters are few and far between, especially compared to last generation. Racing games are rare. I've been lucky to see one release from some of my favorite series. Other I've had no releases. It's been a crap generation. Thank god for my steam backlog and backwards compatibility.
But at least Bloodborne was good.
This generation has been more focused on open world games, which I generally loathe. More of an emphasis on games as a service, which I don't care about. More of an emphasis on multiplayer, which I very rarely give a shit about.
Single player shooters are few and far between, especially compared to last generation. Racing games are rare. I've been lucky to see one release from some of my favorite series. Other I've had no releases. It's been a crap generation. Thank god for my steam backlog and backwards compatibility.
But at least Bloodborne was good.
BassForever
Member
I will give the "modern gaming is not as creative" old man arguement one point. Technology we have today enables developers to make the games they want to make with minimal compromise assuming enough time and talent behind it. When you look back especially at the earliest points of gaming, there was often a huge amount of creativity that went into making a game that felt like what the developer wanted it to be despite the tech of the time not enabling it to happen. There was a huge amount of creativity that went into making the original legend of zelda feel like an massive "open world" to explore despite it being tiny by comparison to everything that came after it. Breath of the wild by comparison doesn't need to come up with creative ways to make a game that feels like a massive world to explore, the tech exists today to just havr a massive world.
The flaw with this thinking is that it ignores the creativity of filling a massive world with interesting places to see and fun gameplay to find. It also ignores all the bad creativity that went into disgusing the short length of old games or making elements of games so cryptic it demanded calling into hot lines or buying strategy guides to finish a game.
Gaming has and will always be a creative, innovative field in both good and bad ways. Even a small change to a mechanic can create waves of original ideas in a game and how it feels even if on the surface it looks like "any other game in x genre".
The flaw with this thinking is that it ignores the creativity of filling a massive world with interesting places to see and fun gameplay to find. It also ignores all the bad creativity that went into disgusing the short length of old games or making elements of games so cryptic it demanded calling into hot lines or buying strategy guides to finish a game.
Gaming has and will always be a creative, innovative field in both good and bad ways. Even a small change to a mechanic can create waves of original ideas in a game and how it feels even if on the surface it looks like "any other game in x genre".
MehsterChief
Member
No one has the time to play every game obviously. But if people played great indies instead of samey AAA games, many of them would enjoy their time much more. I don't know why it has to be a big game to enjoy it when what people here actually want is delivered by indie games in a stellar way.
Yes, quality has nothing to do with creativity, That's beside the point though.
What exactly is creative about infiltrating the same few locations, with most of them really lacking in the level design department? I did that shit in Far Cry 2.
And you still didn't explain how the presentiation of the ending is so super creative.
Creativity =/= Refinement
The game plays like a regular TPS, just with really tight controls. There is nothing *new* (creative) about it.
It's fine that you love the game, but TPP is just not particularly creative.
FlaygletheBagel
Banned
OP, have you even been paying attention to the games of this gen? If you were, I don't think you'd be so disillusioned.
Rocket League, Hollow Knight, Ori and the Blind Forest, Persona 5, Nier Automata, Zelda, The Witcher 3, Yakuza 0, Resident Evil 7, Bloodborne, Until Dawn, Horizon Zero Dawn, Uncharted 4, Undertale, Inside, Stardew Valley, Sunset Overdrive, The Last Guardian, Hitman, Shovel Knight, The Witness, Hyper Light Drifter, Thumper, Splatoon, Doom..... And those are just games that are out now. You've also got Super Mario Odyssey coming in the fall, which looks like one of the most creative games I've ever seen.
If you missed any of these games, play them. Then come back and tell us if you still feel creativity and innovation are dead this gen.
Rocket League, Hollow Knight, Ori and the Blind Forest, Persona 5, Nier Automata, Zelda, The Witcher 3, Yakuza 0, Resident Evil 7, Bloodborne, Until Dawn, Horizon Zero Dawn, Uncharted 4, Undertale, Inside, Stardew Valley, Sunset Overdrive, The Last Guardian, Hitman, Shovel Knight, The Witness, Hyper Light Drifter, Thumper, Splatoon, Doom..... And those are just games that are out now. You've also got Super Mario Odyssey coming in the fall, which looks like one of the most creative games I've ever seen.
If you missed any of these games, play them. Then come back and tell us if you still feel creativity and innovation are dead this gen.
boiled goose
good with gravy
This gen is far better than last gen so no.
You list a bunch of open world games and then complain about creativity. What innovations are you looking for? Why have you only listing AAA games?
You're on NeoGaf, where a bunch of new ideas are posted everyday. Right now we have ARMS, Gwent, Death Squared, and Life Is Strange on the first page.
I just clicked on the Indie Games thread and saw this post:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=244239999&postcount=63
You're on NeoGaf, where a bunch of new ideas are posted everyday. Right now we have ARMS, Gwent, Death Squared, and Life Is Strange on the first page.
I just clicked on the Indie Games thread and saw this post:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=244239999&postcount=63
I can recall reading this exact same sentiment about last gen many times as well
I've seen plenty of critical posts about Horizon that no one bats an eyelid at, but then, most of the posters that make such posts don't seem to whine constantly about how well liked the game is at the same time.
I've seen plenty of critical posts about Horizon that no one bats an eyelid at, but then, most of the posters that make such posts don't seem to whine constantly about how well liked the game is at the same time.
I mean, maybe that might be a valid complaint if the statement were true to begin with. But even most AAA games today aren't creatively bankrupt at all. Bloodborne, Horizon, Metal Gear Solid V, Wolfenstein, Breath of the Wild, Uncharted 4, Prey, The Witcher III, Dishonored II, Nier: Automata, etc. Even if there are games there you might personally dislike, you can't say that that is a homogenous lot. These aren't like 6 hour long, sepia toned military shooters. I mean hell, even the military shooters themselves are doing some different kinda things - look at Battlefield 1's setting or Titanfall 2's surprisingly tight and amazing campaign.
There is more variety and novelty in all areas of gaming now than pretty much ever before. You don't even have to look at indie games to get that (though I don't understand why you wouldn't), so I really don't see what the hell OP is on about.
openrob
Member
Yeah, there's two threads we are bound to see constantly: "this generation SUCKS!" and "this year is PACKED!".
Was gonna say. Pyre comes out in a few days, looks fresh and original, and yet many of the comments in the most recent thread (including mine) express some degree of trepidation over the gameplay because there are few easy comparisons. We like and are drawn to the familiar, truly creative ideas are riskier and a tougher sell.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Katamari Damacy, Patapon and Locorocoo fits the bill for me.
Nothing like those before and after they came out.
Not saying that there's no innovation this gen to be clear.
joe_zazen
Member
When this question gets asked, the answer usually involves wanting games that make a person feel something, and not concrete game design ideas. There is a conflating of the feels with innovation or newness.
It is probably better to know what one wants from a game wrt subjectitive feelings before searching for something to fill that want.
Does a player want to blunt feelings of depression? Escape a grinding life for a while? Get the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat? Get the rush of a gambler? Feel the wonder of a child?
When a game fails to deliver the sought after feeling(s), the player blames the game or gaming in general. It is more productive to look at oneself and see if what they are looking for is actually attainable before looking at what games to purchase.
Looking for a game that will give you the wonder of a child or cure depression is a big ask. Looking for a game with some humor that will pass time on a commute? much more reasonable.
Zombie James
Banned
You need to play more games, OP. This generation's been great, especially when you throw in indies.
MåndagSöndag
Banned
Honestly. For me mainstream console gaming has been shit since 2006 or there about.
Its the combination japanese abandoning consoles for handhelds and mobiles, which lowered the quality, budgets, ambition and made it more fickle. And pc gaming moving into the console space.
I hate handheld gaming. And everything that surrounds it. And i never was a fan of the post doom pc games. Of Course there are exceptions like bioshock, halflife, portal etc. But most of it is just very geared towards multiplayer experience.
Its the combination japanese abandoning consoles for handhelds and mobiles, which lowered the quality, budgets, ambition and made it more fickle. And pc gaming moving into the console space.
I hate handheld gaming. And everything that surrounds it. And i never was a fan of the post doom pc games. Of Course there are exceptions like bioshock, halflife, portal etc. But most of it is just very geared towards multiplayer experience.
See there's a huge reason for that.
Making a PS2 game was considerably cheaper than making a PS4 game. Not only were the tools cheaper, but also you needed a lot less manpower to have a high quality game, both visually and code-wise.
Team size has massively increased with every new generation, and with this comes much bigger budgets. Bigger budgets equals bigger risk, and bigger risk means less "risk" is being taken on for fear of losing too much money on release.
AAA games are still here, but it's very difficult for them to be as "creative" as they were on the PS2.
That's why there's a bit of a rise in AA games - games from (generally) former AAA developers who try to make the same quality of gameplay and such they had in AAA devs but with lower budgets and trying to cut where they can.
Jawmuncher
Member
I'm sure it was said but creative gameplay wise MGSV can be on the list.
Flat disagree with this. Games are larger and certainly much prettier than two generations ago but THAT was the golden age as far as diversity went. Going to EB Games was like going on a treasure hunt.
MehsterChief
Member
It's the same with steam today, only multiplied by a hundred.
SocksAndShoes
Banned
Play more games OP. AAA games suck for you? Play indies.
There's literally no excuse anymore for not playing games you enjoy.
There's literally no excuse anymore for not playing games you enjoy.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Maybe in the AAA sphere but the cost of making games like that is extremely high. Indies have come in to fill the void left by the mid tier market dying out in gen 7.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
This generation is far better with creativeness and inventiveness than last generation. Before indies made a splash last gen most AAA developers outside of shooters weren't exactly pushing the genre forward.
privitsan02
Member
Um last generation we were riddled with first person shooters, brown/dark games, overly-burly action heroes or Nathan Drake clones by the end of the generation and nearly everything trying to imitate Call of Duty or Uncharted.
See, we can dilute a perspective of any gaming generation.
Best wishes.
See, we can dilute a perspective of any gaming generation.
Best wishes.
MrS
Banned
Bloodborne or Witcher 3
Drop the AAA games and play some indies, OP. Go play Superhot or PUBG or The Witness or Undertale or Devil Daggers.