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[SPCTRE]

DUAL PRIMARY SYSTEM:
[...] This change was very obviously made to "balance" the competitive multiplayer, but it's no surprise that the playerbase has been very vocal about disliking this change, mostly for the way it affects the other half of the game.

[...] what we now have is a game with far more repetitive combat across both of its gamemodes.

The question I continue to come back to is this:

Why didn't Bungie look at what Blizzard has learned with WoW (like they have in the past with a lot of Blizzard's best practices) and just created separate rule sets for PvP and PvE?

Blizzard spent years trying and failing to balance the two until they realized it simply can't be done perfectly. Separate the rule sets, balance them individually.

 

[Hazardous Metal]

The question I continue to come back to is this:

Why didn't Bungie look at what Blizzard has learned with WoW (like they have in the past with a lot of Blizzard's best practices) and just created separate rule sets for PvP and PvE?

Blizzard spent years trying and failing to balance the two until they realized it simply can't be done perfectly. Separate the rule sets, balance them individually.

Bungie has been super stubborn about preserving the player's experience across PvE and PvP. It's something about the series that will never change, mark my words.

 

[Melchiah]

"GUNPLAY:
Oh boy, where do I even fucking begin...

First of all, let me say this - Destiny at launch had the best gunplay on the market. Period. The game was insanely responsive and it was a joy to handle. This game's beta has been out for a week and I still confidently feel that it's so far behind it may as well be on the opposite end of the spectrum.

Destiny 2 is bogged down with clunky animation delays and cooldowns, and they're everywhere, from the moment you mantle onto a ledge, to the acceleration when your player changes direction, and even in the time it takes your motion tracker - of all things - to reappear after aiming. Hell, I was just complaining about the fact that you can't even jump and shoot a Rocket in the same frame, which is just a lazy ass way of balancing the Rockets, or anything else for that matter. To put it frankly, this game feels terrible, and it's incredibly disappointing. The simple act of moving the character is not even fun in Destiny 2, because you feel slow and stuck. And that's before we factor in revised gun mechanics and the longer ability cooldowns."

"CLASS DESIGN:
Hunters Suck. 'Nuff Said.

Seriously though, the Hunter hate from Bungie is so obvious at this point, because this time around, there is no compelling reason to play a Hunter in PvE or PvP. The lack of team-specific buffs make it undesirable in PvE, and the lack of strong neutral game make it less effective in PvP until its super pops. (Fun fact, the Golden Gun will take the average player 7 minutes to charge, and a Control match is only 8 minutes long.) This class needs some serious love, because I've otherwise already started conditioning myself to join the Warlock Master Race. "

...

"DUAL PRIMARY SYSTEM:
Again, all of this looks good on paper.

In practice however, what actually ends up happening is you firing the same damn guns on the same damn enemies over and over and over again. The difference between playstyles with Primary weapons is not substantial enough to warrant two distinct slots and ammo counts, and furthermore, the lack of clear character builds as a result leads to an overall less interesting weapon dynamic across both of the modes. This change was very obviously made to "balance" the competitive multiplayer, but it's no surprise that the playerbase has been very vocal about disliking this change, mostly for the way it affects the other half of the game.

I personally don't think it was necessary beyond an experiment. We had unique Exotics that helped put different archetypes in different slots, and I didn't see the need to extend that to the core systems. Because what we now have is a game with far more repetitive combat across both of its gamemodes.

...

At least PvE will have more ammo drops, and eventually we'll be able to pop ammo synths. But as many others have said, having to choose between a Rocket or a Sniper takes a lot of personality out of the character builds. Perhaps this lines up with their "locked character loadouts" idea they're using this time around. They want people to specialize into one thing as opposed to changing midway, maybe to avoid situations where everyone pulls out an Icebreaker one minute and a Gjallarhorn the next. Regardless, it's not hard to see why people are worried it'll take the "fun" out of Destiny, especially when Bungie has a habit of doing just that."

Good post, which pretty much sums up my thoughts about the beta.

 

[cucuchu]

I guess I'll wait for full release to see how everything shakes out before making any kind of judgement call. The only thing I'm really down on right now is the double primary weapon setup and thats also the one thing I doubt they will be willing to change because they have probably balanced their PvE content around this. It just kills the variety in combat options.

Everthin else though, even the 4v4 mutliplayer, is something I can work with. I guess I might think differently if I planned on playing a ton of PvP multiplayer but I mainly just play it for rewards and to mix things up a bit. I will say that a Halo 5 Warzone type multiplayer would be awesome so I hope they don't keep themselves limited to 4v4 for the entire duration of D2's run.

 

[Trakan]

Perhaps. Nothing they've shown at any press event or now official beta has shown more than two subclasses and the only thing that hasn't officially ruled them out has been one cryptic tweet by Mark Noseworthy about wanting the community to have a feeling of discovery. Discovery of class trees we've had for two years? My expectations are pretty low on this front and I'm almost certain these six subclasses are all we're going to get at launch, while solar Titan, arc Warlock, and void Hunter will either show up later and, most likely, tied to either one of the first year expansion pass DLCs or the second year major DLC.

Before the reveal event, a post on reddit leaked everything that was going to be in the reveal event, and got everything 100% correct. They also mentioned the TTK subclasses and said they're back.

 

[Sony_Prophet]

First ever hat trick in Soccer today!

Pre-order cancelled

 

[Tei]

What if instead of 2+1 slots, we get to choose what ammo we use?
Primary ammo = ammo efficient. Secondary ammo = elemental damage and special procs. Heavy ammo = high damage low rate of fire.

So you feed a normal pistol with heavy ammo, it nows overpowered and can oneshot a enemy.

This way every weapon is a special weapon or a heavy weapon, if you choose to made it that way.

 

[2real4tv]

Whats the deal with the UI and not being able to access your friends list? I am only seeing character screen and settings. Why would they change this.

 

[SomTervo]

What if instead of 2+1 slots, we get to choose what ammo we use?
Primary ammo = ammo efficient. Secondary ammo = elemental damage and special procs. Heavy ammo = high damage low rate of fire.

So you feed a normal pistol with heavy ammo, it nows overpowered and can oneshot a enemy.

This way every weapon is a special weapon or a heavy weapon, if you choose to made it that way.

That's a really cool idea but would never be done because weapon switching is so core to the Bungie vibe and pace.

Has sort of been done in other games and IIRC it usually works OK.

 

[jmartoine]

Whats the deal with the UI and not being able to access your friends list? I am only seeing character screen and settings. Why would they change this.

It is accessed through the Director this time. Press and hold the touch pad on PS4 while on the planet then one of the shoulder buttons to bring it up.

I think they have changed is as in the full game you can access the Director UI and move around to any planet from there without going to orbit first, so they have added the friends list into there for ease of use.

 

[E92 M3]

Whats the deal with the UI and not being able to access your friends list? I am only seeing character screen and settings. Why would they change this.

Press the touchpad to access the director. The roster will be there.

 

[Number45]

Whats the deal with the UI and not being able to access your friends list? I am only seeing character screen and settings. Why would they change this.

Yeah, hold the touchpad down. Not keen on the extra steps needed for that, hopefully they'll add it to the left of the character screen as before along with some kind of progress screen.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

Played the beta and it's my first Bungie game since Reach. It controls and feels fantastic but is there really no way to pick up and swap weapons on the battlefield?

It feels incredibly stale being limited to 3 guns for the whole encounter. One of the best parts of the Halo gameplay gameplay loop was the weapon system and having to constantly adapt based on weapon/ammo constraints.

 

[Ricker]

Ok since its extended until tomorrow now I could play the open beta on the PS4 but I don't really see how to download the beta unless I pre order...? didnt check the XBox yet.

 

[wild wild rice]

I assumed I would get this eventually since I basically bought a PS4 to play the first Destiny and had a good time with it despite shortcomings. Gunplay was excellent, music was excellent, art design was excellent, etc.

But since then, DOOM, Wolfenstein, Splatoon and Overwatch have come out and Destiny doesn't seem to do any particular thing better than those games and it feels...obsolete in terms of my gaming time.

DOOM has better combat and level design. Splatoon has great mechanics and incredibly fun movement. DOOM, Wolfenstein and Splatoon all have better singleplayer. Overwatch and Splatoon both have better multiplayer.

So where does that leave Destiny for me? The best thing about Destiny to me is, for now, the strikes. But otherwise the core gameplay just seems too outdated now that other shooters are on the market.

I'll reconsider in a few years perhaps. This beta made the game feel a bit dumb, a bit Call of Duty-ish to be honest.

 

[Tei]

Played the beta and it's my first Bungie game since Reach. It controls and feels fantastic but is there really no way to pick up and swap weapons on the battlefield?

It feels incredibly stale being limited to 3 guns for the whole encounter. One of the best parts of the Halo gameplay gameplay loop was the weapon system and having to constantly adapt based on weapon/ammo constraints.

You can open the inventory at any moment and change them. But the assault don't really ask for it and can be completed with any weapons choices. In destiny 1 there where parts where sniper weapons made sense, or heavy ammo, or even shotguns / fusion rifles. This version of Destiny 2 is a bit uncooked, if you are new to Destiny I envy you, prepare for some amazing ride

 

[E92 M3]

I assumed I would get this eventually since I basically bought a PS4 to play the first Destiny and had a good time with it despite shortcomings. Gunplay was excellent, music was excellent, art design was excellent, etc.

But since then, DOOM, Wolfenstein, Splatoon and Overwatch have come out and Destiny doesn't seem to do any particular thing better than those games and it feels...obsolete in terms of my gaming time.

DOOM has better combat and level design. Splatoon has great mechanics and incredibly fun movement. DOOM, Wolfenstein and Splatoon all have better singleplayer. Overwatch and Splatoon both have better multiplayer.

So where does that leave Destiny for me? The best thing about Destiny to me is, for now, the strikes. But otherwise the core gameplay just seems too outdated now that other shooters are on the market.

I'll reconsider in a few years perhaps. This beta made the game feel a bit dumb, a bit Call of Duty-ish to be honest.

Doom has the most boring environments lol. Gunplay was cool, though.

 

[EL CUCO]

Apparently Warlock still has best melee range

https://youtu.be/7rWPb4tGf9Y

 

[Deku Tree]

All you do is moan about it, why the fuck are you wasting your time like this, is your time so invaluable you play a game you clearly hate and then post every little issue you have on a message board to random people you never meet?

Gaf is not a shill factory. You lose at the internet.

 

[wild wild rice]

Doom has the most boring environments lol. Gunplay was cool, though.

Mars and the space station was cool. I'll admit Hell could have used a bit of work.

 

[Deku Tree]

Dual primaries was a worse mistake than dual wielding was in H2.

This is the kind of super bad decision that happens when your main crucible designers don’t play the game for fun at a high level and when they design via spread sheet and by counting reddit upvotes.

Do I really have to wait until D3 for Bungie to reverse this horrible design decision?

 

[wesleyshark]

Dual primaries was a worse mistake than dual wielding was in H2.

This is the kind of super bad decision that happens when your main crucible designers don’t play the game for fun at a high level and when they design via spread sheet and by counting reddit upvotes.

Do I really have to wait until D3 for Bungie to reverse this horrible design decision?

I hate the dual primary loadout in both pve and pvp. Probably the thing I dislike the most about D2 so far.

 

[Zakalwe]

The change of weapons slots is great for pvp.It makes pve much less fun, though.

Two things I would have done myself had I the power to at Bungie (ignoring the reality, of course, just a silly hyperthetical):

1. Separated pve and pvp entirely in terms of balance changes and loadouts.

2. Had two main game modes: one restricted like D2 beta for those looking for tighter more comp focused play, and another like D1 for space magic spam fests for those who want that (personally I would like both).

Then make casual and ranked versions of both types to keep everyone happy.

Have that as the base and build from there.

This doesn't seem unrealistic in terms of dev time/content based on what we got in D1. I mean, they already have D1 systems designed which would cut out a lot of the overall process.

It just seems to my armchair developer mind that Bungie are making some really obvious mistakes with their designs and I see no reason for it.

I'd love to hear their design process in detail, they must have discussed the separation of pvp/pve like this before, right? Even if was dismissed immediately it must have been brought up. I'd be super interested to hear why they thought this new system would work in pve, etc...

Of course, all of this is based on extremely limited intel. The final game could resolve many of these issues.

Level design, rate of ammo acquisition, gear perks, abilities, encounter design, all the other systems.... there's just too much we don't know to know if this will work... however, based on what we got with D1 from the D1 beta, we're most likely in for more of the same we got with D1, ie:

A foundation that has solid core gameplay, but makes a lot of weird design choices that means that, over time, Bungie need to change things to compensate in inefficient/convoluted ways while existing in a constant state of frustrating imbalance between modes.

I think D2 is going to be a repeat of D1 in this regard. A game I'll play the hell out of but be constantly frustrated by. I mean, goddamn this gameplay loop is addictive, unless they really fuck up I'm already hooked for a decent amount of time...

 

[Ricker]

Same thing on the XBox...I click play the open beta and I get to the pre-order page for either of the 3 versions...I dont want to pre-order I just want to play the open beta thats been extended till tomorrow...

 

[Z3M0G]

Does Destiny roll damage? My buddy who always tests these kinds of things tried the beta and found that the same gun hitting the same location at the same distance can do variable damage. That turned him off pretty heavily.

 

[Pandora012]

Dual primaries was a worse mistake than dual wielding was in H2.

This is the kind of super bad decision that happens when your main crucible designers don’t play the game for fun at a high level and when they design via spread sheet and by counting reddit upvotes.

Do I really have to wait until D3 for Bungie to reverse this horrible design decision?

Knowing Bungie, they will double down on it. I'm just curious on how power weapons are going to effect raids. I feel like I'm going to have to switch weapons all the time.

 

[Z3M0G]

Played the beta and it's my first Bungie game since Reach. It controls and feels fantastic but is there really no way to pick up and swap weapons on the battlefield?

They did say locked loadouts... but now that I think about it, not being able to immediately equip a new pickup sounds pretty horrible.

Not having random drops during a mission anymore would be MOST horrible... but no way they would remove that... lol (?)

 

[irrotational]

The change of weapons slots is great for pvp.It makes pve much less fun, though.

Two things I would have done myself had I the power to at Bungie (ignoring the reality, of course, just a silly hyperthetical):

1. Separated pve and pvp entirely in terms of balance changes and loadouts.
.

I don't think they will ever do this and I kind of agree with them on this one point...they want guns to feel the same wherever you use them - they don't want you to be sniping PvE enemies with hand cannons and then coming into PvP and discovering much higher damage/range fall off. Top end players will notice the difference, adjust, and move on, but the bulk of players will just find it weird and probably not like it.

They want a hawkmoon to be a hawkmoon, whatever it is shooting.

I think the main counter argument is that typically people use different guns for PvP and PvE anyway...so they won't often have the direct comparison. I can't imagine many people raided with a stability enhanced, exploding rounds, CD!

The closest they have come to changes is the raw damage values on shotguns...where IMHO things like aim assist and reticle stickiness have the least impact anyway. Even then they only changed raw damage values and nothing else (range fall off and stickiness etc were the same in PvP and PvE).

Same thing on the XBox...I click play the open beta and I get to the pre-order page for either of the 3 versions...I dont want to pre-order I just want to play the open beta thats been extended till tomorrow...

Try searching in the store for Destiny 2 - you should see the Beta pop up as one of the options and download from there? Don't click the adverts/shortcuts (I know that's silly)

Played the beta and it's my first Bungie game since Reach. It controls and feels fantastic but is there really no way to pick up and swap weapons on the battlefield?

It feels incredibly stale being limited to 3 guns for the whole encounter. One of the best parts of the Halo gameplay gameplay loop was the weapon system and having to constantly adapt based on weapon/ammo constraints.

Destiny is a loot game. In the main game whenever you finish a mission, and sometimes randomly from enemies, you'll get new guns and armour as random drops. You get to keep these forever and can switch them in and out at will (sometimes losing some ammo along the way).

As a rough idea I finished Destiny with just over 200 guns, with only 1 or 2 duplicates, and I deleted a bunch along the way...and I didn't play it half as much as some people!

 

[E92 M3]

Mars and the space station was cool. I'll admit Hell could have used a bit of work.

They were just too drab for me.

--

One addition I love is the new headshot animation in PVP - feels real neat.

 

[Zakalwe]

Goddamn, this game should be the holy grail of FPSs:

- Bungie pedigree for gameplay and PVP innovations
- Acitivision money and support
- D1 and all they learnt from it.

This game has so much damn potential, and while you can't cater for everyone they seem to consistently make these weird design choices that negatively impact /everyone/ while only supporting the shift of a focused appeal to only a /fraction/ of the player base.

Impossible to avoid this entirely for everything, but it really does seem like Bungie hobble themselves really often with the foundation of their design choices.

And as their track record with D1 is evidence they had a lot of trouble considering how to develop the game over time, and as D2 (currently, at least) shows us their design decisions have created a bunch of obvious issues, there's currently more evidence to believe that it's either going to take forever to build on these things or development will be convoluted as they try to design everything on the fly.

 

[Zakalwe]

EDIT: sorry, dp, meant to edit.

I don't think they will ever do this and I kind of agree with them on this one point...they want guns to feel the same wherever you use them - they don't want you to be sniping PvE enemies with hand cannons and then coming into PvP and discovering much higher damage/range fall off. Top end players will notice the difference, adjust, and move on, but the bulk of players will just find it weird and probably not like it.

They want a hawkmoon to be a hawkmoon, whatever it is shooting.

I think the main counter argument is that typically people use different guns for PvP and PvE anyway...so they won't often have the direct comparison. I can't imagine many people raided with a stability enhanced, exploding rounds, CD!

The closest they have come to changes is the raw damage values on shotguns...where IMHO things like aim assist and retical stickiness have the least impact anyway. Even then they only changed raw damage values and nothing else (range fall off and stickiness etc were the same in PvP and PvE).

Guild Wars 1 did this perfectly fine, and people adjusted to it easily. All it requires is a tutorial or explanation that explains the differences.

Or they could even go as far as to included 3 modes:

PVE, PVP, and COMP PVP

Keep PVE and PVP the same, and have comp PVP with separate balances.

I mean, this might not be the most elegant solution but it as a potential one. There are numerous ways they could have designed this, maybe they could have added a comp mode that allows for the community to vote each cycle on weapons that should be banned for the next cycle which would introduce a cycling meta the community can influence and not just have it based on what's currently the most IMBA, or maybe they could have a ranked mode that has set weapon types, etc...


There's so much they could do to avoid the issue they've created here with PVE being constantly negatively impacted by balance changes, especially now they seem to be going for a far less chaotic pvp mode and the chaos is a huge part of what made D1 PVE so great.

Ugh. Time will tell, but I'm not convinced they have any kind of long term vision for D2 based on D1 development history.

 

[MythicReclaimer]

Anyone expecting the Strike count to match 3 years worth of launch+DLC Strike numbers is probably setting themselves up. You have to remember Lost Sectors and Adventures are probably meant to be played along side Strikes.

The raid count will of course be 1.

I don't think anyone realistically is expecting that nor should they and I've spoken multiple times about the adjustment (whether it be Strikes, four current Raids at LL, Story Missions, PvP map selection, etc) most of the current players are in for regarding content in general upon Destiny 2's release as it is a single (but obviously major and bigger than an expansion) release compared to a release and 2.5 years worth of DLC/expansions.

That said, no way they come in under what vanilla Destiny had pertaining to strikes unless they want some serious bad press right from the get-go about content which was a major complaint back then. I really don't see how there won't be 2 new strikes per new destination so I'm at least expecting 7 on Xbox and 8 on PS (one being the exclusive) which only ups the launch count 2 each on those respective platforms compared to vanilla Destiny.

Regarding Lost Sectors and Adventures, I don't think current players are receptive to the idea of going sideways regarding the amount content in replacing a count of one activity with new activities. One of supposed big improvements is more stuff to do in the patrol areas with the addition of the aforementioned Lost Sectors/Adventures and the Heroic Events they've spoken on a bit but you don't add that and sacrifice other content (Strikes) when one of the major complaints of the original release was a lack of content in general and like it or not that is what Destiny 2 will be compared to.

 

[Z3M0G]

My thoughts on the beta:

- Opening mission was pretty epic and was fun. I skipped the videos for now, saw most of them anyways. I was trying to rush and catch up with my buddy so we could co-op the Strike anyways. Edit: I LOVED destroying the generator at the end. It was like a platforming boss battle... I hope there is more stuff like this in the final game! Brilliant!!

- The Strike was a bit too long... it was nice to see some platforming sections, but when a partner died and wouldn't respawn himself, we couldn't get back up to him since he was too high. Perhaps they should have made it auto-respawn after the 30 sec are up this time around. Otherwise it was fun, but the boss was impossible so I'm hoping that was just tuned up for the beta... I LOVE the new enemy types. And I'm happy to finally see the Cabal get their turn in the spotlight. But I expected a D1 DLC to do this... so, you know... Edit: Oh, and the checkpoints were TERRIBLE... they throw you back way too far when you wipe... I hope they tune these.

- I didn't try PVP. Wasn't big on it in D1. So all these changes FOR THE SAKE OF PVP is making me quite un-happy. Shotgun and Rocket Launcher should NOT be in the same slot... that is just silly and stupid.

- Oh, and I ONLY played the Beta remote-play from my Vita while I was at my buddy's place... and it worked flawlessly. Same control mapping as D1. So this makes me very happy.

- I have less friends interested in D2 than D1... the one buddy I had who played D1 heavily quit before TTK. I got 2 buddies to try D2, one enjoyed it since he played with me but he still won't buy it, and the other buddy hated it just as he hated D1. So I'll have less friends playing it with me this time around... :/

Overall, I think D2 may be in a lot of trouble. I'm quite un-happy about some of the changes, and fear I (and others) may opt to just continue playing D1 (I'm still not done the last expansion missions)... I'm very curious to see how that turns out at launch time.

Edit: And all these changes for the sake of PVP is making me worry about them relying on PVP to carry the game long-term... and result in less focus on PVE end-game.

They should (even in D1, but by D2 especially) come up with a formula to create on-the-fly strikes/missions that they could quickly produce and rotate in/out perhaps once a month. Each month feature a new strike on each planet, something that just takes you through the Patrol and/or portions of the strike/mission zones from point A to point B, and fight selected groups of enemies and a new boss variant at the end. Something that doesn't require voiced dialogue be added, but can give perhaps increased chance to drop specific sets of gear or specific exotics each month. (I'm thinking of something inspired by Diablo 3's Adventure Mode.)

 

[Carn82]

my gripes so far:

- something seems off in the physics/impact department, but this might be just a balance thing. weapons feel a bit too much like pea-shooters. Can't put my finger on it.

- not a fan of the 'dual-primaries'. I know things will change regarding ammo, but I want to shoot cool awesome space-guns, I feel that this limits that 'fun-factor' a bit. I personally don't really care to be able to equip two handcannons.

- super / grenade should charge faster, but that's been acknowledged already.

 

[josecitoxnyo]

This is a fantastic video that sums up quite nicely my thoughts about D2 design and the sacrifices Bungie did for the sake of balance. It's just a basic explanation of why, above all things, D2 feels boring to play.

"Balance is worthless by itself"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsC8io4w1sY&feature=youtu.be

 

[gattsu]

But since then, DOOM, Wolfenstein, Splatoon and Overwatch have come out and Destiny doesn't seem to do any particular thing better than those games and it feels...obsolete in terms of my gaming time.

Um. Raids?

 

[Tei]

If the history of Destiny 1 is any relevant, Bungie is always going to take strange decisions that people will not like. But then undo/fix these changes after a few months, only to add new weird decisions people do not like.

Some of these decisions are understandable. Destiny 1 had almost not content, so they had to do something to extend the playtime until DLC1, DLC2.

So I think they will change things a little.

 

[Z3M0G]

Um. Raids?

Played D1 since launch and never touched one. It will be the same for many people in D2. I am shocked by the 50% number they gave of Destiny players doing the Raids... I'm thinking that is % of current active users... not % of total players since launch. No fucking way. 10%, tops.

Don't get me wrong... your point still stands. No shooter does Raids like Destiny. But my point is that they are not the saving grace for most players.

If the history of Destiny 1 is any relevant, Bungie is always going to take strange decisions that people will not like. But then undo/fix these changes after a few months, only to add new weird decisions people do not like.

Some of these decisions are understandable. Destiny 1 had almost not content, so they had to do something to extend the playtime until DLC1, DLC2.

So I think they will change things a little.

That's my worry... D1 re-invented itself with each DLC release until TTK when they finally got it right. They threw shit at the wall to see what would stick...

But they did finally get it right... and now it seems that they are about to go through the same thing with D2.

 

[Ricker]

Nothing,guess you had to download the beta before the 21st...oh well.

 

[jmartoine]

Played D1 since launch and never touched one. It will be the same for many people in D2. I am shocked by the 50% number they gave of Destiny players doing the Raids... I'm thinking that is % of current active users... not % of total players since launch. No fucking way. 10%, tops.

Don't get me wrong... your point still stands. No shooter does Raids like Destiny. But my point is that they are not the saving grace for most players.

According to the trophy statistics 22% of players have completed a raid on PS3/4.

 

[Tei]

Played D1 since launch and never touched one. It will be the same for many people in D2. I am shocked by the 50% number they gave of Destiny players doing the Raids... I'm thinking that is % of current active users... not % of total players since launch. No fucking way. 10%, tops.

Don't get me wrong... your point still stands. No shooter does Raids like Destiny. But my point is that they are not the saving grace for most players.

% of people that do X in games is weird, because many people buy games, try them, and did not like the game / never play again.

% of completion is depressing in many games, with lots of games never having more than 50% of all players beyond the tutorial.

I don't care if only 1% of 10% of all players get to the raid. Raids are very relevant to the destiny game life even if many people don't play them.

I am saying the actual number is not important.

 

[Zakalwe]

Played D1 since launch and never touched one. It will be the same for many people in D2. I am shocked by the 50% number they gave of Destiny players doing the Raids... I'm thinking that is % of current active users... not % of total players since launch. No fucking way. 10%, tops.

Don't get me wrong... your point still stands. No shooter does Raids like Destiny. But my point is that they are not the saving grace for most players.

All of the online systems and social aspects separate Destiny from the games you mention. Even if Destiny is sub-par in terms of core gameplay in some ways the fact you're online with people changes the feel entirely.

Of course, for those not interested in any of this the game could feel lacking. That was the main problem with D1, especially at launch.

It's not a fair comparison to just say Doom etc... are better as shooters without considering all of these things, though.

 

[Hyun Sai]

Guild Wars 1 did this perfectly fine, and people adjusted to it easily. All it requires is a tutorial or explanation that explains the differences.

It's the classic "players are dumb" developper argument. It justifies not having to do extra work of balancing both modes separately.

What they don't realize is that the "unified" approach is in fact much more compex to get it right, so in the end it's always a mess for one (or both, worst case scenario) of those modes.

 

[Z3M0G]

% of people that do X in games is weird, because many people buy games, try them, and did not like the game / never play again.

% of completion is depressing in many games, with lots of games never having more than 50% of all players beyond the tutorial.

I don't care if only 1% of 10% of all players get to the raid. Raids are very relevant to the destiny game life even if many people don't play them.

I am saying the actual number is not important.

That's fine. Just to clarify though, you left out the option that applies to me: Don't have the lifestyle to sit down for 2-3 hour gaming session to do a Raid (Edit: nevermind, you seem to have removed that part of the post)

I usually play games in 15-30 min sessions. I squeeze them in when I can.

 

[wild wild rice]

Um. Raids?

Yes, raids can definitely be fun, but just in terms of the way I play games nowadays it was very difficult to find the time to organize and complete a raid, even using DGAF and Reddit, etc.

15 years ago I would have loved them. Now I rarely game for more than 20-30 minutes at a time. So of course they are a valuable aspect of the franchise, just not one that is very practical for me personally.

 

[wesleyshark]

Nothing,guess you had to download the beta before the 21st...oh well.

I think you had to download the beta yesterday sometime before the evening hours.

 

[onimushroom]

Finally tried Countdown. Just like with the new Control, the first match was "ok", but every match after that was less and less enjoyable. Radar feels more vague and/or laggy now about indicating the enemy's direction, in addition to the delay of reappearing after ADS. Not fun.
Power weapons feel far from powerful. Sniper's body shots in PvE were laughable, as was the grenade launcher. Rocket launcher didn't seem to do much of splash damage to an enemy behind the corner either (in PvP). Does everything do proper damage now only if it's a critical hit?
Once again, everything seems so weak and/or slow.

Fake edit: almost forgot - having a teammate's corpse and enemy's activated bomb next to each other equals square button frustration (on the PS4). Wanted to revive my teammate, the prompt kept changing to "disarm the bomb", and it all ended with me getting shot while trying to get the right thing done. Why stuff like this still exists, yet things that weren't broken needed to be "fixed", I do not get.

 

[MythicReclaimer]

That's fine. Just to clarify though, you left out the option that applies to me: Don't have the lifestyle to sit down for 2-3 hour gaming session to do a Raid (Edit: nevermind, you seem to have removed that part of the post)

I usually play games in 15-30 min sessions. I squeeze them in when I can.

Beyond the initial blind experience and maybe a few other early initial ones, a fireteam banging their collective heads against a wall in a blind Challenge Mode encounter, and Heroic Mode release you don't spend that much time in a raid as they go by quite quickly (1-1.5 hours in most cases). If you like Destiny you really should try to experience the Raids at all cost at least once from start-to-finish.

 

[Hyun Sai]

According to the trophy statistics 22% of players have completed a raid on PS3/4.

Honestly, I find that number impressive. Especially in light of that article not so long ago showing that the stat for players finishing their games were between 30 and 60% depending of the genre.

 

[Chris_C]

I've been unable to play because I keep getting a message saying the servers are unavailable. Anyone know what the deal is?