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'Shadow of War' Brings a Key First to Lord of the Rings: A Black Character
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Is this the first black character ever in LotR?
Well there were the orcs and Southrons
Ninja Scooter
Member
Because JRR Tolkien was a racist.
Incandenza
Banned
Technically black people do exist in Middle Earth but whoops they all serve Sauron
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Haradrim
Is this actually true?
Well, a few writers back then were. My favorite author of all time is Robert E. Howard, and he wasn't the biggest fan of black folks. Doesn't matter, I love his stuff.
a Master Ninja
Member
I'm no expert, but my understanding is that Middle Earth is basically the United Kingdom with a region in the east that's vaguely Asian. I assume this character will have ties to a culture that lives "off the map".
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Here's what he looks like:
Lovecraft was racist too
Good on Monolith.
It does matter.
But it doesn't stop you enjoying his work.
Important distinction.
It does matter.
But it doesn't stop you enjoying his work.
Important distinction.
That's putting it mildly
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Doesn't matter in the context of EDarkness liking Robert E. Howard's work obviously. Not an important distinction given the context unless you're assuming the worst.
EDIT:
Is that what EDarkness said though?
Doesn't make it right or ok
Mercador
Member
LoL. ...Awkward...
You know what, though? That 'race' background is actually a pretty great jumping-off point for a series that's already ret-conning so much of the series' lore.
Gimme a conflicted black hero from a splinter group that isn't sure why their leaders have long followed Sauron in the first place. That'd actually be much more interesting than typical fantasy fluff - because he'd basically be fighting everyone: Sauron, his own people, and the prejudice of the people he's trying to help. Wow, that'd be neat. (And people wondered if Boromir could be trusted near the ring....)
JonnyDBrit
Member
Complicated. Tolkien wasn't the sort of person who'd actively belittle another for their ethnicity - and famously rebuked the Nazis trying to claim credit for his works by proxy, praising the Jewish people in doing so - but he was hardly immune from use of stereotypes and otherwise having an overt favouritism of white British culture. The sort of racism that wasn't too uncommon among 'enlightened' Britons in the early 20th century. He was mildly self-aware of the implications in the exclusion of people of colour from the work, as he kinda throws in some slight commentary when Sam empathises with a fallen Haradrim:
Alluding to the possibility that they were just people like anyone else, and any evil they did was Sauron's doing but uh... if he really thought it was that much an issue he could have had a migrant from the south - or the descendant of one - pop up if he really wanted to. That's, from the looks of it, what Monolith have done with this game.
As for Baranor himself, I am very much curious as to what we'll get out of the focus with him in the DLC, and the general story. Talion himself is meant to be a bit of an outcast within Gondor's explicitly somewhat racist society - being a Northerner rather than of 'true' Gondorian ancestry - so I feel like it could be an interesting point of contrast.
Psychoward
Banned
Horrible comparison, people didn't know the scientific risks of smoking nearly as much.
Not really
Abilidebob
Member
Locking content like this behind a, I can safely assume, paid DLC? One step forward...
Salty Rice
Member
I could swear there is a southern country in middle-earth where black people are common.
An expansion based on a new character is a fine idea
The problem is Monolith's previous DLC in SoM is atrocious
In terms of lore it should be pretty easy to fit him in. Logically you'd expect at least some people from Harad to end up in Gondor, they're not always chaotic evil or anything.
(I think there were black people in lake town in the Hobbit films, which geographically seems a little less likely, though far from impossible. After all, Hobbits from the Shire seem to get all over the place, and they prefer sitting in a comfy home eating second breakfast to adventure.)
Not sure if this game still cares about the lore at all though, what with sexy Shelob.
(I think there were black people in lake town in the Hobbit films, which geographically seems a little less likely, though far from impossible. After all, Hobbits from the Shire seem to get all over the place, and they prefer sitting in a comfy home eating second breakfast to adventure.)
Not sure if this game still cares about the lore at all though, what with sexy Shelob.
IggyChooChoo
Member
The creepy thing about Tolkien and black people for me was less that he had them aligned with Sauron, but that he saw black people's physical features as troll-like. From ROTK he describes them:
"out of Far Harad black men like half-trolls with white eyes and red tongues."
But like others have said, he was a man of his time in this way, unfortunately.
"out of Far Harad black men like half-trolls with white eyes and red tongues."
But like others have said, he was a man of his time in this way, unfortunately.
No no no...
The real reason is that black people didn't exist during Tolkien's time!
Interestingly, a lot of Robert E. Howard's racist tendencies came from his relationship with H.P. Lovecraft.
Shadow of Whatever is fanfiction now.
I enjoyed the Elf story if only for his conversations/threats against Sauron between missions. There was something cathartic about how ultra pissed he got and his constant calls for revenge. The last fight was decent too; it was like they saw that their original last boss was just a crappy QTE and decided to fix it. I'll give them some props for that.
The beast map was pretty bad though. Also the high score stuff was fun exactly one time.
Yes but it's something to be aware of in their work and especially when adapting it so that you aren't a racist due to their personal POV. You can include racially charged stuff if appropriate but him casually making black people bad guys probably qualifies for a reassesment
JonnyDBrit
Member
Harad is the general realm south of Gondor and Mordor, and is the in universe equivalent to Africa and the Near East. Gondor even settled part of Near Harad, called Umbar, though its possession went back and forth quite a bit, mostly to the 'Corsairs of Umbar'. Unfortunately the story never really sets foot there or shows the perspective of characters from there - they're reduced to mooks for Sauron and at best the story says maybe they're just good people but misled by the villain. Same deal for the Easterlings.
illmatic22
Banned
Wish he was the main character.
When wasn't it?Shadow of Whatever is fanfiction now.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Oh I've just googled and what fresh hell is this
Adding more diversity to Middle Earth is fantastic. Tolkien had some regrettable worldviews that doesn't stop me from adoring the world he created.
I love Shadow of Mordor for what it is, don't know why the fuck they bother attaching the LotR license to it though.
OriginalPoe
Banned
Yes because of the mythos.
JonnyDBrit
Member
Because WB's thing in general is licensed titles, and they probably felt it was easier to bank on one of the most famous licenses in the entire fantasy genre - particularly as GoT hype was in full swing - rather than make a wholly new IP?
UncleSporky
Member
I googled sexy Shelob.
I found my answer but I also found this:
I found my answer but I also found this:
Castle.i.don't.know.what.to.say.gif
molnizzle
Member
VaultBoy101
Member
If that person doesn't go by the name "Gamdalf," I'm going to be disappointed.