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[Neonep]

So many compromises were made in MVC:I. That game will probably continue the thread of their games underperforming. The roster choices and DLC decisions killed that game before people even got a real chance to play it. I understand shit happens but at the same time when you are constantly shooting yourself in the foot, you have to look yourself in the mirror.

 

[Mik317]

It is funny tho that people are like "man this company that is bleeding money should totally release a niche JRPG, a 2D Platformer and a niche 3D fighter (one never known for its oodles of content) that'll totally save them".

 

[Riposte]

Even with all of the issues that DMC4 had, it reviewed well and sold better than any other DMC game. They should have game the game to platinum or something. That atrocious piece of shit that nobody wanted almost killed the franchise.

This is the problem I mentioned. "CAPCOM DESERVES TO FAIL" karmic retribution fantasizing should be kept a significant distance away from serious discussion. On one hand you are talking about DMC4 reviewing well, when DmC also did. Just nonsensical anger.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

I wonder if McCarter defended the rootkit too.

Is this your way of tagging me in or something?

 

[Line_HTX]

I feel Capcom's issues can be summarized as follows:

1.) Most of their legacy brands are the type of thing that's unlikely to be particularly successful these days. It's hard for me to imagine pretty much any design Capcom could find the talent for and reasonably develop where Lost Planet is a 3-5+ million unit hit. Sure, some gigantic four player open world co-op game could be the next Ghost Recon Wildlands, but modern Capcom would never be able to make that.

2.) All of their core remaining brands are in decline, often notably so. Resident Evil will end well below their two expectations. Street Fighter V hasn't reached its launch expectations, and Street Fighter IV's sales number is still miles away. Dead Rising is basically dead. Monster Hunter, while still a good performer, has been showing off and on weakness instead of its former consistent strength and overperformance. There's... not much else they make beyond that either on a meaningful-contribution-to-earnings scale.

3.) All of their new IPs and business initiatives are basically failures. They've shown zero altitude to replace their brands or achieve new successes for over half a decade, if not longer, and it's not clear when (or if) that will change.

4.) The main reason their financial situation has been (minorly) improving is that they've very dramatically cut costs by dumping all full game outsourcing (a la outsourcing Devil May Cry to Ninja Theory or Asura's Wrath to CC2, not in terms of outsourcing character modeling to China, which they still do), focusing on making games in house using cheaper new/recent college grads instead, vastly lowering their marketing expenditures, and re-releasing tons of games from when they used to be a leading publisher. However, at some point, these savings have been baked into their performance, and their most appealing titles will have been re-released, and they will start sliding again.

SFV aside, that last point is probably the biggest reason for barely hanging on. While it's very nice to have HD re-releases like Darkstalkers Resurrection, it's not sustainable in the long run.

Whatever happened to that Deep Down thing anyway? It has been in complete radio silence since its reveal.

 

[NJSlay]

Capcom needs to drop the awful 3D look they have been using in their games since 360/PS3 era.

Capcoms 2.5/3D games have all been ugly as fuck. Part of the reason DBZF is so hype is it actually looks good and like the show. Imagine if Marvel or Strider or SFV had hand-drawn graphics..

 

[JayEH]

Capcom needs to drop the awful 3D look they have been using in their games since 360/PS3 era.

Capcoms 2.5/3D games have all been ugly as fuck. Part of the reason DBZF is so hype is it actually looks good and like the show. Imagine if Marvel or Strider or SFV had hand-drawn graphics..

Hand drawn is unreasonable today. There's a reason why most big fighting games dropped it.

 

[direct_quote]

Capcom needs to drop the awful 3D look they have been using in their games since 360/PS3 era.

Capcoms 2.5/3D games have all been ugly as fuck. Part of the reason DBZF is so hype is it actually looks good and like the show. Imagine if Marvel or Strider or SFV had hand-drawn graphics..

I'm fine with how SFV looks (not MvCi though lmao).. Not everything needs to look the same and it's great that DBZF looks great. But even for DBZF their engine using 3d models gives you great angles and cinematics you would not get from hand drawn sprites.

 

[Neonep]

It is funny tho that people are like "man this company that is bleeding money should totally release a niche JRPG, a 2D Platformer and a niche 3D fighter (one never known for its oodles of content) that'll totally save them".

What would really save them is to release a bunch of ports. An MVC/MVC2 collection, Onimusha HD collection, Megaman Battle Network collection, etc. Release them on PS4, Xbox One, Switch, & PC (Well except for Battle Network, Switch only). Porting them won't cost much and will more than likely do incredibly well. Use the profits to reinvest in development for AAA games and they should take their time with those games. No need to rush them and also fuck all this wider audience and accessibility shit. For every game they should take the most successful and/or loved version of the game and use that as the blueprint for the next game.

 

[Kaleinc]

They should have game the game to platinum or something. That atrocious piece of shit that nobody wanted almost killed the franchise.

Garbage ps2 quality cutscenes taking 30 gigs of hdd space and mash those qtes like there's no tomorrow, son. Sounds like a great rescue plan for DMC5.

 

[Neonep]

Garbage ps2 quality cutscenes taking 30 gigs of hdd space and mash those qtes like there's no tomorrow, son. Sounds like a great rescue plan for DMC5.

I think you missed what I meant. I'm saying when they decided to outsource Devil May Cry they should have gave it to Team Ninja or Platinum instead Ninja Theory.

 

[Trickster]

Is this your way of tagging me in or something?

Just perfect lol

 

[Neonep]

This is the problem I mentioned. "CAPCOM DESERVES TO FAIL" karmic retribution fantasizing should be kept a significant distance away from serious discussion. On one hand you are talking about DMC4 reviewing well, when DmC also did. Just nonsensical anger.

Not nonsensical anger. DmC was a game nobody wanted and is one of the major blemishes Capcom has that put them in the position they are in now. The PR for DmC was the worst I ever seen and they did that to themselves.

 

[TRUE ORDER]

A pity, hopefully they can fix some things going forward.

I really like some of their franchises so I'll help with a copy

 

[Reset]

Even with all of the issues that DMC4 had, it reviewed well and sold better than any other DMC game. They should have game the game to platinum or something. That atrocious piece of shit that nobody wanted almost killed the franchise.

Uh nah. Keep Platinum away from DMC.

 

[Neonep]

Uh nah. Keep Platinum away from DMC.

My response:

I think you missed what I meant. I'm saying when they decided to outsource Devil May Cry they should have gave it to Team Ninja or Platinum instead Ninja Theory.

 

[Sesha]

wouldn't their biggest failure be Lost Planet 3?

Maybe. It or Dead Rising 4.

This is not exactly true. DMC4 was heavily criticized for basically being half a game (and I assume that reason was they switched to multiplatform halfway through development which ate up some time). It has the greatest combat of all the DMC games (and IMO greatest combo system in any action game), but it had a lot of short falls as well.

And I think the main reason Capcom reboot the franchise was because the DMC team and Itsuno were working on DD's and they wanted to utilize the franchise still. So they rebooted it with a team that made mediocre to poor action games... Capcom pls....

Actually, Itsuno stated that he tried to get a team together to make DMC4SE and DMC5 post DMC4. So either people didn't want to make a new DMC at the time, or Capcom already had other plans. We know from TribladeX that DmC was already underway by mid-to-late 2009.

 

[Neonep]

Point is, is that they need bags of cash.

 

[old manatee]

Mega Man fps in the vein on Metroid Prime would put things back on track.

 

[Caffeine]

Hand drawn is unreasonable today. There's a reason why most big fighting games dropped it.

is there a reason for that I see lots of kickstarters with hand drawn stuff and its like 1 guy doing all of it. (ie ghost song) kinda crazy a bigger corporation with multiple people couldn't pull stuff like that off anymore.

Mega Man fps in the vein on Metroid Prime would put things back on track.

i would have already prepurchased it if it existed.

 

[Neonep]

Mega Man fps in the vein on Metroid Prime would put things back on track.

You are out of your mind.

 

[Neonep]

Another problem is that I don't trust Capcom do anything right at this point. They found a way to ruin Street Fighter & Marvel Vs. Capcom.

 

[Astral Dog]

Besides RE7 and their 3DS games they haven't really done anything commendable this generation imo, they are an empty husk. (Not counting their port/remasters but you know what i mean)

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

As much as I love Capcom.. they did it to themselves.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

Maybe. It or Dead Rising 4.



Actually, Itsuno stated that he tried to get a team together to make DMC4SE and DMC5 post DMC4. So either people didn't want to make a new DMC at the time, or Capcom already had other plans. We know from TribladeX that DmC was already underway by mid-to-late 2009.

Imagine if late 2010, early 2011 we had gotten DMC 5 and possibly a DMC 6 2014. Instead we got DmC in 2013 and jack shit since.

 

[Shin K Dash]

is there a reason for that I see lots of kickstarters with hand drawn stuff and its like 1 guy doing all of it. (ie ghost song) kinda crazy a bigger corporation with multiple people couldn't pull stuff like that off anymore.

It would be much harder for them to sell you costumes since Capcom's new ambition is to make a strong profit off DLC.

 

[Astral Dog]

Garbage ps2 quality cutscenes taking 30 gigs of hdd space and mash those qtes like there's no tomorrow, son. Sounds like a great rescue plan for DMC5.

Yeah DmC had some nasty looking scenes even compared to their other games, they look dreadful next To Dmc 3/4

 

[That1BlackGuy]

I feel Capcom's issues can be summarized as follows:

1.) Most of their legacy brands are the type of thing that's unlikely to be particularly successful these days. It's hard for me to imagine pretty much any design Capcom could find the talent for and reasonably develop where Lost Planet is a 3-5+ million unit hit. Sure, some gigantic four player open world co-op game could be the next Ghost Recon Wildlands, but modern Capcom would never be able to make that.

2.) All of their core remaining brands are in decline, often notably so. Resident Evil will end well below their two expectations. Street Fighter V hasn't reached its launch expectations, and Street Fighter IV's sales number is still miles away. Dead Rising is basically dead. Monster Hunter, while still a good performer, has been showing off and on weakness instead of its former consistent strength and overperformance. There's... not much else they make beyond that either on a meaningful-contribution-to-earnings scale.

3.) All of their new IPs and business initiatives are basically failures. They've shown zero altitude to replace their brands or achieve new successes for over half a decade, if not longer, and it's not clear when (or if) that will change.

4.) The main reason their financial situation has been (minorly) improving is that they've very dramatically cut costs by dumping all full game outsourcing (a la outsourcing Devil May Cry to Ninja Theory or Asura's Wrath to CC2, not in terms of outsourcing character modeling to China, which they still do), focusing on making games in house using cheaper new/recent college grads instead, vastly lowering their marketing expenditures, and re-releasing tons of games from when they used to be a leading publisher. However, at some point, these savings have been baked into their performance, and their most appealing titles will have been re-released, and they will start sliding again.

These issues sound like they point to a problem in leadership and vision from my experience. Surely there has to be some accountability measures in place at Capcom in terms of their leadership and the ability to hit goals and grow their company/brand. Sounds like Capcom needs an executive shakeup.

 

[direct_quote]

Maybe. It or Dead Rising 4.



Actually, Itsuno stated that he tried to get a team together to make DMC4SE and DMC5 post DMC4. So either people didn't want to make a new DMC at the time, or Capcom already had other plans. We know from TribladeX that DmC was already underway by mid-to-late 2009.

This makes me sad... We could have gotten Vergil in DMC4 in 2010 or something... With maybe even a separate DLC campaign that was built from ground up.

 

[VLQ]

Mega Man fps in the vein on Metroid Prime would put things back on track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olYCsHuqjOo

 

[JayEH]

is there a reason for that I see lots of kickstarters with hand drawn stuff and its like 1 guy doing all of it. (ie ghost song) kinda crazy a bigger corporation with multiple people couldn't pull stuff like that off anymore.



i would have already prepurchased it if it existed.

It's very time consuming to make high quality sprites. http://kofaniv.snk-corp.co.jp/english/info/15th_anniv/2d_dot/creation/index.php

For Kof 12 one sprite took 16 months to do. If you do sprites you also can't do a big cinematic story mode, dlc costumes, cinematic supers, etc. It just isn't worth it for a big company especially since mainstream won't care about it looking and animating nice. They'll see a retro looking game.

 

[Caffeine]

It's very time consuming to make high quality sprites. http://kofaniv.snk-corp.co.jp/english/info/15th_anniv/2d_dot/creation/index.php

For Kof 12 one sprite took 16 months to do. If you do sprites you also can't do a big cinematic story mode, dlc costumes, cinematic supers, etc. It just isn't worth it for a big company especially since mainstream won't care about it looking and animating nice. They'll see a retro looking game.

holy shit thx thats very informative wow 16 months for 1. they looks so good though :3

 

[MrCarter]

It's the weekend so I have some time to reply otherwise this thread would be done and dusted by now.

The game is a freaking mess, people are playing it because it's the game that is getting supported right now. The game isn't pure hot garbage but it is not a top class fighting game atm.

People talking about the quality of the game as a fighter don't give a shit about the animations, the cool graphics and models. Yes they are good for the most part and the animations for the most part are freaking amazing, but that's only a minor part of a fighting game. If I cared about graphics and shit as the main deciding factor over wow THIS GAME IS SO GOOD then I'd consider GG a better fighter than BB. But I don't that game has some pretty big issues on the higher level of it that I'm not a big fan of.

SFV is an insane step back from how deep SFIV had gotten and they did it on purpose to rope in causal players but at the same time they didn't put things in for casuals upfront which hurt initial responses, then who knows wtf they were thinking with the balance at the start of season 2

I didn't say the game never had problems but the fact is people like yourself are so insecure about SFV being in the limelight after nearly two years that you have to go into every related thread to dogpile on it. It's like an obsession - and you are calling me the running gag. The game is being played because the majority of the players WANT to play the game, and even the majority that compete, don't take any income home.

What "shilling" nonsense are you talking about? I made counter points which then I was dogpiled upon by some random people from the "community", so let's cut that that shit out mate. If you think that how "deep" and well regarded SFIV was then where is the support? Take a look at Melee. As for balance, an SF title was never this balanced so early on in its life cycle and it's certainly more balanced that SFIV.

I just want to add, it seems like a mjaority opinion on GAF sometimes that "Capcom made SFV for the hardcore FGC and not for the casuals" and like, it can't be said enough that even hardcore players don't want it. It failed at every conceivable level and there's no way around that. "The gameplay is fine the launch was just bad" is the other myth I don't understand getting repeated when lots of players will tell you otherwise. Hell, it's pretty commonly accepted that the gameplay got even worse over time thanks to Season 2 even among SFV diehard players.

Not sure what you have reading or following but as mentioned before a lot of players from the SFIV preferred more inane 1-frame links, arbitrary combos, wake-up ultras and OS's and they don't like SFV due to it being too "honest". Whereas more well regarded and older pro players like Tokido, Daigo, Haitani and so many others prefer its gameplay than the previous title due to it reminding them of past games which weren't over bloated with too many mechanics.

That sucks too, because a lot fo the people sitting here talking about how bad SFV is actually like and play Street Fighter games. SFV has a lot of characters people like, it has some elements of SF people like, and it's not that hard to get into. But for every time I see Tokido do a cool thing, or even look at some characters and get an urge to go back in, I see the huge myriads of problems with the game and just don't bother.

That's subjective and entirely upto you. The game might not for you and I understand that.

I'm sure I'm not the only one in this thread talking about SFV being bad that is also checking updates for SFV every now and then in hopes that it gets better to play. That's what kinda sucks about it. Seeing people talk about how SFV is such a great entry to a series that a lot of people respect while it's clearly ruining SF for a lot of people is some pretty asinine shit. Saying it's great when decision makers in the community have to start thinking about the negative impacts that are on the table right now just makes you look stupid.

I think Capcom know the problems are there (I mean, how could they not with threads on GAF every single weekend talking about a game they don't allegedly like), so it's a matter of addressing these issues as time goes on - and if the rumours are true we might get a huge update very soon.

Is this your way of tagging me in or something?

Do you have a database of me in your phone or something lol. That's pretty sad and desperate. I still think the rootkit palava was OTT though as usual with the FGC and they fixed that within 24hrs. Still, I guess people were still buying the game even after that issue judging by the steady growth - which must really get to you.

 

[MrCarter]

It's very time consuming to make high quality sprites. http://kofaniv.snk-corp.co.jp/english/info/15th_anniv/2d_dot/creation/index.php

For Kof 12 one sprite took 16 months to do. If you do sprites you also can't do a big cinematic story mode, dlc costumes, cinematic supers, etc. It just isn't worth it for a big company especially since mainstream won't care about it looking and animating nice. They'll see a retro looking game.

They looked amazing. Then we unfortunately got a downgrade to KOF14.

 

[Terrell]

Capcom not doing great =/= Capcom on the verge of selling their IP to Nintendo. You can't be wrong for several years straight and act like people are finally catching on. If Capcom goes the way of THQ in 2025, people saying they would in 2011 or 2013 were still very, very wrong. Considering a lot of the doomsayers were motivated by bitter fanboy syndrome, it was correct to not to take them seriously. Now we can see that Capcom's main titles are not doing well (as opposed to them failing because of having the gall to not make a new Megaman or Onimusha game), it's obviously a different situation from when those pillars were stable (and, ironically, resentment towards Capcom was stronger).

Something not happening instantaneously =/= being wrong. Rarely was there a timetable given, just discussion on the foreseen inevitability if a decent turn-around didn't materialize. And what we're seeing is no decent turn-around.

I will agree that the motivation behind some of that talk by certain posters was due to a personal affront rather than business realities, though. But that's because that is what prompted them to start asking questions about where Capcom was going to go from its unideal situation.

 

[Socivol]

Geez open your mind a bit then. I haven't bought it yet either, but that is a super silly reason not to like a game IMO.

Why is it silly to avoid playing a game that is a genre you know you don't like? I don't like FPS games at all. There is no game that is going to change my opinion on that so why waste my time and money to play something I know I will dislike?

 

[Csr]

Constant bad decisions from the execs, they saved some money but they have damaged their ip's and have lost consumer trust.
When and if (and that is a big if) those college grad's learn to actually make something worthwhile will there be anything left and will anyone care?
They have completely lost me personally.

 

[Anne]

Not sure what you have reading or following but as mentioned before a lot of players from the SFIV preferred more inane 1-frame links, arbitrary combos, wake-up ultras and OS's and they don't like SFV due to it being too "honest". Whereas more well regarded and older pro players like Tokido, Daigo, Haitani and so many others prefer its gameplay than the previous title due to it reminding them of past games which weren't over bloated with too many mechanics.

I've actually talked to Tokido about the game back in season 1. He was very critical about it back then too, saying the game felt random and there were many things Capcom had to fix. Ultimately, I don't doubt that him and some of the other players I've talked to wanted to move on from SF4. I don't get to talk to he top JP players regularly, but it's a pretty small group saying shit like that. Meanwhile Bonchan is literally calling the devs retarded. Infiltration has said the game got worse. Every time I interviewed a top NA player about the game, I had to edit down or steer the conversation around them taking huge dumps on the game every other minute.

I'm far from some big shot, but I'm somebody that has worked intimately with the top people of the FGC at various points, and what you're telling me is a much different story than what I experienced firsthand. SF4 was something people were ready to dump and people don't want to return to. That was the sentiment I remember. I also remember the sentiment that SFV avoided some of the issues of SF4 at the expense of being awful in so many other places. Again, I had these conversations with real pro, semi-pro, and even just pot monster level players. Pulling up the sentiments of a couple top JP players isn't going to suddenly change that fact, especially when conversations with them have proved to bring up a lot of grief at the same time.

Also, if you think that was the appeal of SF4 and that SFV doesn't appeal because it's not like that, you're at a level of understanding of the SF series where I'm not sure you're really qualified to be saying things like this about it.

 

[HighResTomato]

They did it to themselves, signing away their most iconic IP.

 

[Mufausa The 3rd]

Where have most of their profits been coming from? Monster Hunter?

Monster Hunter apparently has been going on a decline. But their main bank is the Capcom Pro Tour, ports, and SFV DLC

 

[Durante]

I think realistically, the main reason Capcom is in a worse position financially than many other Japanese publishers who messed up just as much with their gaming efforts is that they don't have a successful gambling business (this of course includes mobile gatcha and pachinko) to prop them up.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

I see that this thread has been dominated by SFV discussions.... as usual *sigh*

Anyway, what Capcom needs are some new successful IPs. Despite what people think of RE6, there is no denying that the action in that game is very unique and has a lot of potential. Capcom should use those mechanics, polish them and make a new TPS IP.

Also, It's kinda mind-boggling to me that even though Capcom has a ton of memorable characters, they still haven't made a decent mobile gatcha game. Just take a look at OPTC and make a game like that with Capcom characters.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

Time to release Outbreak HD.

 

[Mufausa The 3rd]

I think if MvC:I fails and judging from the impression online that it may very well then this will be the end of Capcom fighting game division. And we are back to the dark ages of Capcom fighting games. As Evo will become a Melee tournament and will fade into obscurity as before.

Capcom has already set in their calendar that they plan to support SFV for atleast another 2-4 years.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Also, if you think that was the appeal of SF4 and that SFV doesn't appeal because it's not like that, you're at a level of understanding of the SF series where I'm not sure you're really qualified to be saying things like this about it.

I'm shocked.

 

[Aters]

That is indeed true, but in terms of the video games themselves, they found a winning strategy with or without the anime and manga licensing to exploit.

Driving Tales series to the ground with shoe-string budget is hardly winning strategy.

 

[Terrell]

I think realistically, the main reason Capcom is in a worse position financially than many other Japanese publishers who messed up just as much with their gaming efforts is that they don't have a successful gambling business (this of course includes mobile gatcha and pachinko) to prop them up.

Yeah, they didn’t do a great job with diversifying their profitability. Capcom still lives and dies by packaged video game sales. Or more specifically on Monster Hunter sales.

 

[James Scott]

Maybe they need to look at doing some Disney games again. Though I think Square Enix has control of them right now.

SE doesn't have the license to Disney games. They have the license to some marvel titles and KH.

Also, I'm not sure Capcom has what it takes to make good Classic Disney games tho

 

[MrCarter]

I've actually talked to Tokido about the game back in season 1. He was very critical about it back then too, saying the game felt random and there were many things Capcom had to fix. Ultimately, I don't doubt that him and some of the other players I've talked to wanted to move on from SF4. I don't get to talk to he top JP players regularly, but it's a pretty small group saying shit like that. Meanwhile Bonchan is literally calling the devs retarded. Infiltration has said the game got worse. Every time I interviewed a top NA player about the game, I had to edit down or steer the conversation around them taking huge dumps on the game every other minute.

Ah using the community card yet again. I've seen many interviews with Tokido, Haitani, Daigo and even US players like Snake Eyez and although they don't think the game is perfect they much prefer it over the previous entry. It's just the due to more social media in this day and age the minority that dislike the game obviously get a bigger platform and voice which makes it seem like they are the majority. Even James Chen, who is a veteran in the FGC, said if SF4, 3 or Alpha released now they would be murdered online.

I'm far from some big shot, but I'm somebody that has worked intimately with the top people of the FGC at various points, and what you're telling me is a much different story than what I experienced firsthand. SF4 was something people were ready to dump and people don't want to return to. That was the sentiment I remember. I also remember the sentiment that SFV avoided some of the issues of SF4 at the expense of being awful in so many other places. Again, I had these conversations with real pro, semi-pro, and even just pot monster level players. Pulling up the sentiments of a couple top JP players isn't going to suddenly change that fact, especially when conversations with them have proved to bring up a lot of grief at the same time.

I could say the same for you by pulling up a few top players who don't like the game. I also remember the atmosphere during the last year of SF4, people were growing very weary and tired of it, and wanted to move onto something new. Well, looks like they did but some were not too happy - which is why you should always be careful what you wish for. SFV is still quite young in terms of an SF title so improvements and meta changes could still occur in the future.

Also, if you think that was the appeal of SF4 and that SFV doesn't appeal because it's not like that, you're at a level of understanding of the SF series where I'm not sure you're really qualified to be saying things like this about it.

I think what a lot of pro players say should never be taken too seriously (even if it's positive) as we all know they obviously have a stake in playing the game to their advantage. SF4 appealed to a certain type of player that was more execution heavy whereas SFV appeals to people who like fundamentals and reading the opponent. Like I said, SFV still has a LONG way to go so it will be interesting to see what they do.

 

[nded]

Also, I'm not sure Capcom has what it takes to make good Classic Disney games tho

They can still make a good game, but everything surrounding that as a product will be completely fucked up.