-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Fighting Game Headquarters |eSports| 4444 Life
- Thread starter notworksafe
- Start date
katsubento
Member
One of my favorite moments so far from Japan Cup was Daigo turning the Red Bull can towards the camera.
sixteen-bit
Member
Great sequence, but Xiao Hai had the last laugh tho. Nemo choked hardcore in that set.
Turbanator
Member
He's an old man.
katsubento
Member
He did work in a care home for awhile before he came back to fighting games. His telling of it in his book was really interesting.
First editions came with Crocs.
Karsticles
Member
lucebuce12
Member
Yup. Either it knows what you're going to do, or it cheats (RTS games).
.la1n
Member
Yeah and it's lame.
In RTSes the AI actually cheats. Never mind that the AI can see you through fog of war, it actually has gold/experience bonuses.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Namco's own expectations for T7 is to ship 2 million units by the end of 2017, or in 7 months time. To put it in perspective if Capcom and Namco meet their expectations for their 2017 fighting games, T7 should only reach that total after Marvel vs Capcom Infinite reaches 2 million.
Capcom's expectations was to sell 2 million in a single month, to coincide with the end of Q1 2016. It's Q3 2017 and they still haven't done it.
Tekken 7 selling at a comparable/better rate than the capcom titles is like the Wonder Woman movie outgrossing Batman v Superman.
But you're right. T7 sales weren't all that.
2017 Best Sellers:
1. Tom Clancys Ghost Recon: Wildlands
2. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild*
3. For Honor
4. Grand Theft Auto V
5. Horizon Zero Dawn
6. Injustice 2
7. Mass Effect: Andromeda
8. Resident Evil 7: Biohazard
9. NBA 2K17
10. Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare
hmm, so you're admitting that SFV isnt that good and didnt sell well? This is pretty much the opposite of what you've said in the past. At least it's good that you decided to stop shilling for once.
DryEyeRelief
Member
The funniest thing is when people in defense of SFV have to circle back and take shots at the game in order to make their point.
like saying
"Does SFV look like a high budget game to you?!" in a conversation about whether Capcom made money or not.
like saying
"Does SFV look like a high budget game to you?!" in a conversation about whether Capcom made money or not.
Turbanator
Member
MOBAs are incredibly boring to watch. Even moreso than playing them.
I know people joke about lootboxes and grinding in Overwatch, but the first time I ever felt like i was grinding for that game was when I forced myself to play HotS for the DVa and Genji skins.
They certainly marketed it like one. There was tons of ads during the NBA season when it released. Those aren't cheap.
lucebuce12
Member
As someone who used to play Dota 2 pretty heavily, it's definitely the hardest genre to break into if you don't know anything about it.
And it's damn near impossible to spectate if you don't want to learn or don't know anything.
And regarding the playing thing, if you don't like en you don't like em. But I've always hated the fact that a lot of MOBAs lock away heroes and you have to unlock them. That shit is just wrong. Sure sell fucktonnes of customization but don't lock out heroes as that can legitimately affect your matches, and it's something Dota 2 got right from the start.
.la1n
Member
You know what you must do.
Did he do some magic shit to turn you into a female
irfaanator
Banned
if he wasnt playing vf i dont believe you
Turbanator
Member
Who's Yams and what is this meme?
Professor Beef
Banned
yams is a former poster who took it upon himself to be the FGW punching bag and got upset later on that people treated him like a punching bag
Karsticles
Member
This is the most accurate Beef has ever been.
Thomasorus
Member
About Tekken sales :
The real comparison for sales is TTT2 and SF5, not T7 and SF5.
Basically with TTT2 they made everything internet asked for: a good tutorial, the whole cast of the series, 2vs2 and 1vs1, a huge amount of fan service. And the game didn't met sales expectations. TTT2 sales forced Namco to react and learn more about their fans' expectations.
So a few month later they launched Tekken Revolution and it was, according to Harada, a success as it had millions of players and it helped them to catch a bit more the US crowd that wasn't that interested in the series anymore. Many changes you have in Tekken 7 were tested in Tekken Revo.
Also and that's an info I got from an insider before Tekken 7 was announced, but the new Tekken I heard about was supposed to just be "Tekken" and be a reboot. I was never able to confirm that with Harada but everything I saw about Tekken 7 after that was to me the logical followup experiment after Revo. They added a lot of new chars and new type of chars to test waters (remember the Chloé drama?), they changed their tech to unreal and re-updated the tech a second time before console release. And (sort of) closed the Mishima saga. They even changed basic outifts of characters, a thing they didn't dare to do since Tekken 4! Basically they listened but also decided that doing exactly what the fans ask isn't what is going to keep the series afloat.
All of this makes Tekken 7 sounds to me as a transition episode to a bigger change that may come in a few years. Seeing them add Akuma, Eliza and now Geese makes me think Harada and his team may wants to go into a different gameplay for Tekken next time. Harada told me back in 2011 that he was a bit "stuck" with Tekken gameplay since it was mature and people would complain about to much change.
So Tekken 7 sales aren't that incredible compared to others but it's a successful game that have been making money for 2 years in arcades and is now selling ok. When you put the series into perspective for the past ten years, I think Tekken 7 is actually very successful and the Tekken team very smart. They dared to shake up things and the reception is good + they are responding fast to demands. Now compare this to SF5 not being in arcade to make money + a business plan with DLC that only have an install base of 1.5 million people + a team unable to respond to fans demands and make a stable game for 2 years.
It really doesn't compare.
The real comparison for sales is TTT2 and SF5, not T7 and SF5.
Basically with TTT2 they made everything internet asked for: a good tutorial, the whole cast of the series, 2vs2 and 1vs1, a huge amount of fan service. And the game didn't met sales expectations. TTT2 sales forced Namco to react and learn more about their fans' expectations.
So a few month later they launched Tekken Revolution and it was, according to Harada, a success as it had millions of players and it helped them to catch a bit more the US crowd that wasn't that interested in the series anymore. Many changes you have in Tekken 7 were tested in Tekken Revo.
Also and that's an info I got from an insider before Tekken 7 was announced, but the new Tekken I heard about was supposed to just be "Tekken" and be a reboot. I was never able to confirm that with Harada but everything I saw about Tekken 7 after that was to me the logical followup experiment after Revo. They added a lot of new chars and new type of chars to test waters (remember the Chloé drama?), they changed their tech to unreal and re-updated the tech a second time before console release. And (sort of) closed the Mishima saga. They even changed basic outifts of characters, a thing they didn't dare to do since Tekken 4! Basically they listened but also decided that doing exactly what the fans ask isn't what is going to keep the series afloat.
All of this makes Tekken 7 sounds to me as a transition episode to a bigger change that may come in a few years. Seeing them add Akuma, Eliza and now Geese makes me think Harada and his team may wants to go into a different gameplay for Tekken next time. Harada told me back in 2011 that he was a bit "stuck" with Tekken gameplay since it was mature and people would complain about to much change.
So Tekken 7 sales aren't that incredible compared to others but it's a successful game that have been making money for 2 years in arcades and is now selling ok. When you put the series into perspective for the past ten years, I think Tekken 7 is actually very successful and the Tekken team very smart. They dared to shake up things and the reception is good + they are responding fast to demands. Now compare this to SF5 not being in arcade to make money + a business plan with DLC that only have an install base of 1.5 million people + a team unable to respond to fans demands and make a stable game for 2 years.
It really doesn't compare.
MiniBossBattle
Member
I blame yams.
Z
ZelbZelb
Unconfirmed Member
JoJo ASB:
Yoshikage Kira VS Gyro Zeppeli
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsKAammZKGk
I've posted match vids with these characters before, but I don't think I took the time to go over them.
Yoshikage Kira:
Yoshikage Kira was one of the pre-order DLC characters for the NA release, which was store exclusive. If you pre-ordered from Best Buy you got Kira, if from Amazon, you got Shigechi. DLC characters in this game cost $2 from the start, which was a pretty nice departure from Street Fighter's pricing.
This Kira is a rushdown and okizeme character. He chases after opponents with his good normals, then combos into sweep, then a 'coin flip' move for the set-up. The coin he tosses is unblockable (like, Tekken unblockable) and can lead to a variety of different actions based on what read Kira has on his opponents. A successful set-up can often lead into a small combo which opens up the same okizeme set-up or even a full combo. If you want I can try to find a video that shows these set-ups off. In Stand-On, Kira gets access to a move that implants a bomb inside the opponent, which he can detonate at anytime within a certain time frame. The explosion is often used to create big juggle combos (he can do roughly 70% for 2 bars of meter) or to leave it in for a later set-up. His super does good damage, catches side-step AND can be used as an anti-air. His ultra is often thought of as useless, due to it being a very slow, remote-control car that is usually jumped over, leaving Kira exposed. However, it does have one BIG use. Like his coin, it is unblockable. If you quickly cancel the right blockstring into his ultra, the opponent is stuck in block-stun and the ultra is guaranteed to hit. This means if you have 25% or less health, and Kira has 2 bars of meter, you cannot let him touch you at all. You even get to see this during the set! He's a super solid character and well worth the $2 if you're thinking of trying a DLC character.
Gyro Zeppeli:
Gyro Zeppeli is definitely a top 10 character, perhaps even top 5. However, he is one of the more complicated characters to wrap your mind around and will take time to feel comfortable with. If you can, Gyro is very rewarding, with many options available to him.
While some Tekken folks are wrapping their minds around Akuma's fireballs, Gyro is a character who has to manage his projectiles like a resource. You'll see at the bottom near his meter are two steel balls. When he throws one out, it stays out for a while and can't be used. If he throws out both, he has to wait a while before being able to use moves that require them. Some moves, like his on-horse specials, require both steel balls to perform and are unavailable if one ball is out. This can cause confusion with new players, as you kind of have to think ahead about what you want to do. The trade-off is that Gyro's steel balls take a lot of getting used to if you're the opponent. His standard projectile 236M, has a crazy amount of hit-stun and block-stun, which allows Gyro to roman cancel, run up, and continue the combo or block-string. Getting tagged by one of Gyro's balls carries consequences and they come out fast enough that side-stepping can be hard. Furthermore, when Gyro's steel balls return to him, the have a hit-box. So they can hit the opponent as they return. This can even function as a combo breaker, saving Gyro from big damage.
Being a Part 7 character, Gyro can pick up corpse parts. Unlike Valentine, Gyro only needs one part to become a menace. Picking up one corpse part gives him a new special move called 'Scan'. Here Gyro throws out a heavy hitting projectile, but this time the steel ball gets locked in mid-air. The steel ball takes up space, damaging the opponent if they touch it. Furthermore, doing Scan again while a steel ball is floating will make Gyro throw his other ball at the floater ball, and ricochet back towards the opponent's position, catching side-steps. Having Scan also gives Gyro access to massive juggle combos, which not only do big damage, but also build a ton of meter. Getting two corpse parts gives Gyro super armor while using his steel balls. Getting three corpse parts gives Gyro permanent 'Golden Rotation':
You'll notice a mini-bar next to Gyro's meter. Pressing and holding 22H will slowly fill the bar. If full, Gyro gets a temporary buff called 'Golden Rotation'. This not only gives him super armor and damage boosts, but it also upgrades his On Horse specials, allowing them to hard-knockdown, giving him access to better horse combos. There are plenty of ways to knock the opponent back and charge a big portion of meter, or simply tap it at the end of a block string, recovering quicker.
Speaking of 'On Horse' Gyro is a 'Mounted' character. This means that instead of a Stand, Gyro can ride a horse. Riding the horse makes Gyro a big target, but the horse is a huge movement buff. Side-steps and backdashes travel very far. Also while riding the horse, Gyro can't throw, but also cannot BE thrown. An added bonus is that the horse cannot be crumpled, so some combos that rely on that won't work. To knock Gyro off his horse, you have to either hit him while he's jumping, or do one of your character's specific moves that has the property to knock him off. As stated before, Golden Rotation buffs the horse's specials, but locks Gyro out of doing 22H, which normally gives the horse a nasty perfect back-wall combo.
Finally, like Young Joseph, he has 4H, which gives him a force-field that blocks everything (except maybe supers and ultras, I think).
So uh, yeah, I might be missing something, but as you can see, there's a lot to consider with Gyro. Lots of options, but options that have to be used right.
Yoshikage Kira VS Gyro Zeppeli
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsKAammZKGk
I've posted match vids with these characters before, but I don't think I took the time to go over them.
Yoshikage Kira:
Yoshikage Kira was one of the pre-order DLC characters for the NA release, which was store exclusive. If you pre-ordered from Best Buy you got Kira, if from Amazon, you got Shigechi. DLC characters in this game cost $2 from the start, which was a pretty nice departure from Street Fighter's pricing.
This Kira is a rushdown and okizeme character. He chases after opponents with his good normals, then combos into sweep, then a 'coin flip' move for the set-up. The coin he tosses is unblockable (like, Tekken unblockable) and can lead to a variety of different actions based on what read Kira has on his opponents. A successful set-up can often lead into a small combo which opens up the same okizeme set-up or even a full combo. If you want I can try to find a video that shows these set-ups off. In Stand-On, Kira gets access to a move that implants a bomb inside the opponent, which he can detonate at anytime within a certain time frame. The explosion is often used to create big juggle combos (he can do roughly 70% for 2 bars of meter) or to leave it in for a later set-up. His super does good damage, catches side-step AND can be used as an anti-air. His ultra is often thought of as useless, due to it being a very slow, remote-control car that is usually jumped over, leaving Kira exposed. However, it does have one BIG use. Like his coin, it is unblockable. If you quickly cancel the right blockstring into his ultra, the opponent is stuck in block-stun and the ultra is guaranteed to hit. This means if you have 25% or less health, and Kira has 2 bars of meter, you cannot let him touch you at all. You even get to see this during the set! He's a super solid character and well worth the $2 if you're thinking of trying a DLC character.
Gyro Zeppeli:
Gyro Zeppeli is definitely a top 10 character, perhaps even top 5. However, he is one of the more complicated characters to wrap your mind around and will take time to feel comfortable with. If you can, Gyro is very rewarding, with many options available to him.
While some Tekken folks are wrapping their minds around Akuma's fireballs, Gyro is a character who has to manage his projectiles like a resource. You'll see at the bottom near his meter are two steel balls. When he throws one out, it stays out for a while and can't be used. If he throws out both, he has to wait a while before being able to use moves that require them. Some moves, like his on-horse specials, require both steel balls to perform and are unavailable if one ball is out. This can cause confusion with new players, as you kind of have to think ahead about what you want to do. The trade-off is that Gyro's steel balls take a lot of getting used to if you're the opponent. His standard projectile 236M, has a crazy amount of hit-stun and block-stun, which allows Gyro to roman cancel, run up, and continue the combo or block-string. Getting tagged by one of Gyro's balls carries consequences and they come out fast enough that side-stepping can be hard. Furthermore, when Gyro's steel balls return to him, the have a hit-box. So they can hit the opponent as they return. This can even function as a combo breaker, saving Gyro from big damage.
Being a Part 7 character, Gyro can pick up corpse parts. Unlike Valentine, Gyro only needs one part to become a menace. Picking up one corpse part gives him a new special move called 'Scan'. Here Gyro throws out a heavy hitting projectile, but this time the steel ball gets locked in mid-air. The steel ball takes up space, damaging the opponent if they touch it. Furthermore, doing Scan again while a steel ball is floating will make Gyro throw his other ball at the floater ball, and ricochet back towards the opponent's position, catching side-steps. Having Scan also gives Gyro access to massive juggle combos, which not only do big damage, but also build a ton of meter. Getting two corpse parts gives Gyro super armor while using his steel balls. Getting three corpse parts gives Gyro permanent 'Golden Rotation':
You'll notice a mini-bar next to Gyro's meter. Pressing and holding 22H will slowly fill the bar. If full, Gyro gets a temporary buff called 'Golden Rotation'. This not only gives him super armor and damage boosts, but it also upgrades his On Horse specials, allowing them to hard-knockdown, giving him access to better horse combos. There are plenty of ways to knock the opponent back and charge a big portion of meter, or simply tap it at the end of a block string, recovering quicker.
Speaking of 'On Horse' Gyro is a 'Mounted' character. This means that instead of a Stand, Gyro can ride a horse. Riding the horse makes Gyro a big target, but the horse is a huge movement buff. Side-steps and backdashes travel very far. Also while riding the horse, Gyro can't throw, but also cannot BE thrown. An added bonus is that the horse cannot be crumpled, so some combos that rely on that won't work. To knock Gyro off his horse, you have to either hit him while he's jumping, or do one of your character's specific moves that has the property to knock him off. As stated before, Golden Rotation buffs the horse's specials, but locks Gyro out of doing 22H, which normally gives the horse a nasty perfect back-wall combo.
Finally, like Young Joseph, he has 4H, which gives him a force-field that blocks everything (except maybe supers and ultras, I think).
So uh, yeah, I might be missing something, but as you can see, there's a lot to consider with Gyro. Lots of options, but options that have to be used right.
Forcing yourself to play ANYTHING is going to automatically make it feel like a grind.
Karsticles
Member
Who the fuck would want to be a member of that?
When people told me that Yams made his own secret discord, I was confused. I mean, shit. There's no reason for it.
CommandThrower
Member
Degen?
Professor Beef
Banned
degen got more sense than that
just wait till my cap check comes in so i can roast this post
katsubento
Member
Action figures are posable and can look realistic(so I'm told). IJ2 doesn't even manage that.
Unless they are action figures from the 70's that I had when I was a kid that had no bendable limbs.
Turbanator
Member
Finally gave Fantasy Strike a try after ignoring it due to the slow looking gameplay.
Other than like everything having armor, this game is 100% fundamentals and patience. You can't just do stupid shit and expect it to stick. If you get a DP or Super blocked and aren't punished, you either set it up perfectly with a projectile or your opponent has no idea what he's doing. Oddly enough, high execution seems to be extremely well rewarded in this game, tho. For example as Jaina, timing your air fireballs and then comboing just as they hit is near impossible to do, but you get a massive reward of 3 damage to your combo as opposed to just 2 (or 4 instead of 3 if you used a divekick). If you're great at timing shit, you will absolutely decimate other players.
Ironic how the simplest games reward the most complex players.
Other than like everything having armor, this game is 100% fundamentals and patience. You can't just do stupid shit and expect it to stick. If you get a DP or Super blocked and aren't punished, you either set it up perfectly with a projectile or your opponent has no idea what he's doing. Oddly enough, high execution seems to be extremely well rewarded in this game, tho. For example as Jaina, timing your air fireballs and then comboing just as they hit is near impossible to do, but you get a massive reward of 3 damage to your combo as opposed to just 2 (or 4 instead of 3 if you used a divekick). If you're great at timing shit, you will absolutely decimate other players.
Ironic how the simplest games reward the most complex players.
sixteen-bit
Member
CommandThrower
Member
It's really cool to see these animations again, and how they transition well into that new graphical style.
I can imagine that some folks would take issue with the fact that both games' animations look near identical, but I think it's fine when we haven't seen a new Fighting Layer in so long.
Nah, even with only a couple months of work, Fighting Layer EX (or whatever they're going to call it) looks like the best fighting game running on Unreal 4. I include Tekken 7 in that.
FadedRevolution
Member
So we still gonna act like Capcom is the victim huh?
I think it looks like a mixed bag. Darun is the only character I think looks good.
Otherwise, I think the character models are barely decent. Hokuto's face is LOL and the animations are terrible.
I don't give it a pass just because it's a small team.
I say all that even though I know I'll buy it just because I support most fighters. I just don't see what so many others see. I see a game with jank SFEX combos with jank SFEX animations with a shitty gem system that I hope I can turn off.
I guess people who didn't play/remember the EX games are in for a rude awakening when this game comes out!
katsubento
Member
It looks good, but let's not get crazy now.
direct_quote
Member
Well I'm just glad all those people that wanted Skullomania back can finally put their money where their mouth is.