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PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair
- Thread starter aspiegamer
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whyamihere
Banned
Biden was to the right of Hillary.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
this is not "the left" these were the disaffected bros/ former paul supporters. Who are very vocal on the internet (largely why they tend to support these "fringe candidates" with simplistic solutions) but not the largest electoral factor.
Clinton lost largely due to losing former Obama blue collar voters because they were racist and liked trump.
whyamihere
Banned
Yeah. This is pretty much what the Upshot says.
Also there isn't any fucking data to support this, as far as I know. Taking one shitty bro on twitter and painting this as a movement is as stupid as looking at someone like Mensch and painting all Dems that way.
Come on.
It's not even so much their votes that bothered me. But for the whole the election, while Hillary was talking about the dangers of the alt-right, the left was busy co-opting conservative talking points about the corrupt Clintons. They served as an amplifier for the narratives Trump used to win.
VendettaRed07
Member
Really the biggest difference Biden getting in the race would have made wouldn't have been on states like Michigan, because I still think Bernie wins there. it would have been in the south and it likely would have made Hillary's "firewall" crumble.
Yeah her policy and approach during the primary was good but what helped her more than anything imo was her connection with Obama and how Bernie's sort of "outsider" campaign made him run away from him. Hillary and Obama were friends and worked well together for the most part but Obama and Biden are true BFFs. Had Biden gotten in it would have heavily cut into the margins Hillary got in a lot of places. Or, I can imagine Obama just endorsing Biden right away and not waiting till the end like he did last time. Which imo would probably helped him win states like SC outright.
Yeah her policy and approach during the primary was good but what helped her more than anything imo was her connection with Obama and how Bernie's sort of "outsider" campaign made him run away from him. Hillary and Obama were friends and worked well together for the most part but Obama and Biden are true BFFs. Had Biden gotten in it would have heavily cut into the margins Hillary got in a lot of places. Or, I can imagine Obama just endorsing Biden right away and not waiting till the end like he did last time. Which imo would probably helped him win states like SC outright.
Clearly you're just going to blame her loss on the left, facts be damned. And you wonder why the left distrusts people like you.
The only leftists I know like this a half-dozen radical communists who lived in safe blue states. None of them even voted for Bernie in the primaries, because they didn't think he was left enough. Everybody I know who voted for Bernie recognized that Trump exhibited every problem with Hillary, so they voted against him.
The expected demographics that did not turn out weren't leftists, but suburban middle-class centrists and politically inactive young people who didn't find Hillary as inspiring as Obama.
I missed the beginning part of it, so I don't know if she did during the start, but I don't specifically remember her condemning him during the parts that I heard.
What a fucking pussy. Seems more like an Alex Jones-esque act to "go viral" though.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
there's two "alt-left" talking points
there's the alt-right, right's version of violent anti-fa leftists who want to gut america and erase our history. nobody really bought into this except right-wingers
then there's the neera, center-left "alt-left" which claimed there is a part on the left who is racist and sexist (horseshoe theory) and actively hurting the left and supporting donald trump.
the center-left's use of the right's same term was used as a cudgel to assert power over the dem party's future and in a fight over the def of "true-liberals"
The left's claim is that the use of the same term in a internecine fight gave the term credence for trump to use the right's term and is now hurting all of the left.
The leftists largely didn't do this during the general.
And the fact that they pointed this out and trump used it. doesn't mean they "amplified" his message, it largely means that maybe they were right that clinton wasn't the best candidate against trump because he would use these same messages.
and again, it doesn't really matter because this isn't why clinton lost. she lost because trump voters like his racist platform and clinton couldn't attract the moderate republicans she thought she could by shaming them with trump
this shit is getting more confusing than metal genres.
Agreed - and the center-left usage of alt-left is looking really fucking stupid right now.
Really hate stuff like this from this guy:
Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump
Memorial service today for beautiful and incredible Heather Heyer, a truly special young woman. She will be long remembered by all!
Her beauty is immaterial, and you didn't know her and therefore have no idea how "truly special" or "incredible" she was. What you do know is how she died. How about:
Memorial service today for Heather Heyer, a young patriot whose life was tragically cut short while she was standing against terrorists trying to destroy the country she loved. She will be long remembered by all!
Oh wait, I forgot he thinks the terrorists are "fine people." Back to the drawing board I guess.
Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump
Memorial service today for beautiful and incredible Heather Heyer, a truly special young woman. She will be long remembered by all!
Her beauty is immaterial, and you didn't know her and therefore have no idea how "truly special" or "incredible" she was. What you do know is how she died. How about:
Memorial service today for Heather Heyer, a young patriot whose life was tragically cut short while she was standing against terrorists trying to destroy the country she loved. She will be long remembered by all!
Oh wait, I forgot he thinks the terrorists are "fine people." Back to the drawing board I guess.
Here's part of the problem: Older Millenials were the only group of white voters to go Dem in 2012: (GOP on top, Dem on bottom)
White Younger Millenials and Gen Z were/are more conservative than Older Millenials, and you could see that divide play out last year as their lack of experience to Bush v Gore, Bush Starts a War and Bush Crashes the Economy led to the '00-era "both sides" shit rearing its head again.
source: https://twitter.com/rohitguptahpf/status/897813459047337985 (gotta ask if theres more where that came from)
Alt-Left was never a term that meant anything and it using it meant you were either disingenuous or dumb. Or both. (And why use alt-left to refer to racist authoritarian lefties when ctrl-left is right there.)
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Trump is sexist. But he uses beautiful liberally in everything.
https://twitter.com/search?l=&q=beautiful from:realdonaldtrump&src=typd&lang=en
Its basically, the alt-right wanted to invent a fake term to "both sides" their racism and violence.
their was/is a fight in the dem party over the future of the party and the center-left/liberals used the alt-rights term in this fight to hurt the left.
this legitimization lead to trump using and legitimizing of the alt-right's term
At least he acknowledged she exists. He gets a torn up gold star on his assignment for the day.
So presidential.
The fact that Trump didn't go to this memorial service says it all really.
dynamitejim
Member
It's not one shitty bro. These people were all across social media during the election and they haven't gone away.
Fuck. The left has been saying "both sides are the same" about Democrats and Republicans for ages. They said Gore was the same as Bush 17 years ago. They've been poisoning the well against Dems for nearly 2 decades and, more importantly, it's created an ugly cynicism among the electorate. Why vote at all if nothing's going to get better under Democrats?
Just vague enough to work for him.
Yeah, was thinking this. I don't think he wrote any of that shit in the last 5 hours. It's too positive
Schucky Ducky
Banned
Any other President in history would have actually gone to the memorial service. Not giving any points for this simple tweet.
They are trying to change the Dems, and pull the party leftward. And its hard not to be cynical after Iraq and the financial crisis.
But they all vote with the Dems and there isn't really any statistical evidence of voter defection so....
NYCmetsfan
Banned
That reads like a trump tweet.
Vague platitudes by someone who clearly doesn't know why he's praising her
This is more "the dems act too much like republicans on economics and foreign policy" rather than "both sides are the same"
"both sides are the same" comes from internet edge lords.
Yeah remember talking to my "centrist" friend (who has gone quite left since the election!) saying "I did my job man, I voted for Clinton!" and I said to him "yeah but you were constantly talking about how awful she was the whole time. YOU voted but you were part of a systemic narrative that caused people to stay home!"
Whatever, we both were living in California so it's all pissing in the wind at the end of the day.
That's bullshit though, is there any data to show this "people staying home" narrative? Also - that's what happens in a primary.
Don't tell me 2016 was that much different from 2008.
whyamihere
Banned
I imagine that older white millennials will be the most D of their bunch for a while. Bush, Iraq, Stock Market, Obama.
BoogieWoogie
Banned
Another CEO bites the dust from the Trump Council, 3M's this time.
There was a gignantic "free rider" problem this election w/ people like your friend, Bernie, TYT, etc. thinking that they could go all in on Clinton because in the back of their heads they thought she had it in the bag anyway. That they could get away with being gigantic assholes and leverage their position because they wouldn't face the consequences of this.
They thought wrong.
dynamitejim
Member
It's the popular narrative in much of our media and news. "Trump may be an insane bigot, but Clinton has the emails thing."
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I also don't think that graph is true. The sample size is much too small to make reliable conclusions. It's like the polling that came out showing younger millenials were more anti-Corbyn than older ones on the basis of a subsample of 79 people - patent nonsense.
Trump's gonna get 4M, 5M, it's gonna be great!
RumbleHumble
Banned
This. It's missing some classic Trump trademarks. Kelly finally take his phone away for good?
Good.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Great point here. I am hopeful they won't make the same mistake in 2020.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
It is unacceptable to say that candidates must not be criticised because the alternative is worse. If you don't want criticism, run better candidates.
Randolph Freelander
Member
How dare they imply that black lives actually matter, apparently.
Gee I can't imagine why people who were 10-17 when Obama was elected might have more conservative political views than people who were 10-17 when Bush II was elected?
They are mean to cops. Gotta protect the snowflakes, might spook them into firing their gun at you.
Randolph Freelander
Member
CNBC @CNBC 14 minutes ago
BREAKING: 3M's CEO resigns from Trump's manufacturing council. http://cnbc.com/id/104653387
It's disgraceful that anyone is still on it.
BREAKING: 3M's CEO resigns from Trump's manufacturing council. http://cnbc.com/id/104653387
It's disgraceful that anyone is still on it.
Tranqueris
Banned
Didn't you hear about how they killed those five cops?! /s
What the fuck?
What's the fucking holdup Campbell Soup Company?
There deliberately misinterpret it as "Only Black Lives Matter."
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Okay, so find the data-set and prove it has statistical significance. Otherwise I'm just left to assume you're a tiresome windbag quoting people on Twitter without checking the source - it reminds me of someone, but I can't quite put my finger on it.
It's not criticism that was the problem, it's criticism based almost entirely on falsehoods, misrepresentations or just plain willful ignorance. Everything related to the Clinton Foundation, her or Podesta's emails, Goldman Sachs speeches, etc..... was complete and utter bullshit. But anytime something about that stuff came out, you had leftists gleefully shouting about it with the same bellicose rhetoric as Trump's campaign and the alt-right. Again, if they had stuck to debate about actual policies and not fabricated narratives, I would have no problem.
nature boy
Member
Federal government contracts
I already asked for the source data before you even asked.
But if you think younger white millennial Americans are more liberal than older ones after experiencing the last election cycle? Good grief.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I don't know - reading Rand is remarkably good way to dissuade most people from egoism for life!
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