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[Kill Your Masters]

Precisely. Is anyone going to be daft enough to walk up to the surviving family of a victim, let alone the parent of a child and say "Did you know statistically they were more likely to die from heart disease or a bad trip and fall?".

Terrorist attacks aren't accidents, nor are they naturally occurring causes of death. It's usually a brutal and sudden loss of life through a calculated and/or planned attack. Often in places where you expect social cohesion and safety in numbers (public spaces/shops/restaurants).

Yes, people should always try and live their life and not give into fear, but it can just be a bit tasteless to roll out the "global death statistics" in the wake of a terror attack.

Well obviously no, that would be cruel. But the fear that terrorism causes in people who will visit place X in a few months is irrational and the probability of a attack happening is still relatively low, as morbid as it sounds, but people who are not affected by this directly should not put their life on hold because of it.

Most statistical posts here are aimed towards concerned people fearing they will die during their vacation.

 

[Acidote]

Police statement to clarify something:

There is NOT, and there has NOT been a hostage situation.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Police shootings are tragedies caused by systemic failures in police training and recruitment. Considering the authority that police are invested in, I am far, FAR more concerned with how reforms can help reduce instances of unnecessary police shootings and abuse than I am with pouring disproportionate resources into fighting radical extremists.

But yes, I mixed up my numbers. I was thinking of the number of deaths by terrorism in the Western sphere. This chart in particular is quite relevant here:

Reminder that Western Europe constitutes some 390m people. Again, a dose of perspective.

I'm a bit tired of "perspective" though when this stuff is happening multiple times a year. Add 2016 and 2017 to your map and you got three years in a row with a lot of terror attacks, compared to over a decade of relative little attacks. And that is very worrying. Certainly when these new attacks are not through large bombings that require a lot of planning and people - and thus a larger chance of authorities picking up on them and stopping it -, but from individuals who just attack random people.

So while I agree that we should not panic and suddenly think Europe is a warzone, there is something very serious going on that we got attacks every few weeks now, whether large or small.

 

[barber]

Again, Spain have been nearmaximum terrorist alert (lvl 4 out of 5) for quite some time (since Paris I believe). Thankfully, our proximity to Africa (some nice intelligence treaties with Morocco) and our previous experience with ETA have made it so that our secret service and counter terrorist units are prepared to stop before any action happens. Sadly that is not always possible as shown today. Anyone who is capable of donating blood should do it as long as they don't get close to the center of Barcelona (hospitals can and will be sending blood between themselves if they are close enough).
On other hand, is there any SpainGAF threats?

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Police statement to clarify something:

There is NOT, and there has NOT been a hostage situation.

Well that's a pretty damn big deal.

 

[2blackcats]

Fucking cunts.

 

[Business]

A second terrorist reported dead after exchanging fire with the police, happened just outside Barcelona.

 

[JCH!]

Again, Spain have been in maximum terrorist alert for quite some time (since Paris I believe). Thankfully, our proximity to Africa (some nice intelligence treaties with Morocco) and our previous experience with ETA have made it so that our secret service and counter terrorist units are prepared to stop before any action happens. Sadly that is not always possible as shown today. Anyone who is capable of donating blood should do it as long as they don't get close to the center of Barcelona (hospitals can and will be sending blood between themselves if they are close enough).
On other hand, is there any SpainGAF threats?

Small correction, not maximum alert but level 4 out of 5.

 

[Baroquemantic]

Rest in peace to those 13. I really hope that number doesn't rise.

 

[Stumpokapow]

With respect to posting information about the perp or perps; information released by authorities is fair game, including the name or identity of the attacker(s), but please do not link someone's Facebook unless authorities have indicated for sure that it's the person or unless it's clear from context that it absolutely is the person (i.e. a confession post) -- the possibility of a same-name-different-person thing is very palpable and has been an issue in past similar cases, and we do not want to give rise to or direct abuse in cases of mistaken identity.

Edit: Looks like the linked Facebook page has been taken down anyway.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Police shootings are tragedies caused by systemic failures in police training and recruitment. Considering the authority that police are invested in, I am far, FAR more concerned with how reforms can help reduce instances of unnecessary police shootings and abuse than I am with pouring disproportionate resources into fighting radical extremists.

Your argument that the number is very low both compared to other causes of deaths and to earlier periods in history is also applicable to police shootings. The NYPD killed 93 people in 1971 and less then 10 per year since 2010.

http://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/stats/reports-analysis/firearms-discharge.page

 

[Laiza]

I'm a bit tired of "perspective" though when this stuff is happening multiple times a year. Add 2016 and 2017 to your map and you got three years in a row with a lot of terror attacks, compared to over a decade of relative little attacks. And that is very worrying. Certainly when these new attacks are not through large bombings that require a lot of planning and people - and thus a larger chance of authorities picking up on them and stopping it -, but from individuals who just attack random people.

So while I agree that we should not panic and suddenly think Europe is a warzone, there is something very serious going on that we got attacks every few weeks now, whether large or small.

I would argue that this is largely what you would expect from a world of great instability (both financial and societal) and that the solution to these things is not to crack down on any even remotely suspicious behaviors, but to consider solutions that attack the core issues at play here, which are usually down to people feeling disenfranchised and lacking agency in modern society.

The grand majority of terrorist attacks still happen in the Middle East, at any rate, and if anything, any solutions to the terrorist problem should be aimed at stabilizing the situation over there. As it is, don't expect things to get any less chaotic over the coming years. But also don't expect the numbers to approach anything close to "I can't go there, I'll get killed!" levels, either.

The only person that needs a dose of perspective is you.

'Kay. What a helpful contribution.

Your argument that the number is very low both compared to other causes of deaths and to earlier periods in history is also applicable to police shootings. The NYPD killed 93 people in 1971 and less then 10 per year since 2010.

http://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/stats/reports-analysis/firearms-discharge.page

Again, completely different issue. Authority figures have to be held to a higher standard than generic lone-wolf terrorists.

 

[Dehnus]

In that sense it is helpful yes. But in another sense my Grandmother still wont go on planes ever because of 9/11 despite driving every day, and we all know how likely you are to die in a plane crash as opposed to a car crash.

It might seem irrational (and largely is) but higher profile incidents cause more fear, which is the end goal of terrorism, basically.

Irrational behavior is not healthy and should be dealt with. Not that I don't understand, but it should still be overcome. Otherwise everybody will be scared of everybody, and that would be the populist's dream (populists of all creeds, Islamic, Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Atheist, doesn't matter...).

 

[Pikma]

Fuck....

 

[barber]

Small correction, not maximum alert but level 4 out of 5.

Oh sorry, will change the text.

 

[jstripes]

Terrible. 😢

Let's hope they find the people who coordinated this and dismantle it.

 

[N7.Angel]

I know the feel Barcelona, my heart is with you.

 

[smoothj]

Just crazy. So sad. So unfair to those victims. Makes me angry.

 

[Acidote]

The arrested person IS Driss Oukabi. He's supposedly the driver. A second suspect is dead after a shootout with the police after trying to skip a control.

 

[MKIL65]

The arrested person IS Driss Oukabi. He's supposedly the driver. A second suspect is dead after a shootout with the police after trying to skip a control.

Someone commented before that there were 3 attackers though?

Is that false?

 

[And_Gignac]

Well obviously no, that would be cruel. But the fear that terrorism causes in people who will visit place X in a few months is irrational and the probability of a attack happening is still relatively low, as morbid as it sounds, but people who are not affected by this directly should not put their life on hold because of it.

Most statistical posts here are aimed towards concerned people fearing they will die during their vacation.

All fear is irrational that doesn't mean it is not valid. Emotionally detached mathematical explanations of dead by terrorism do nothing but make people angrier. Stop doing it.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I would argue that this is largely what you would expect from a world of great instability (both financial and societal) and that the solution to these things is not to crack down on any even remotely suspicious behaviors, but to consider solutions that attack the core issues at play here, which are usually down to people feeling disenfranchised and lacking agency in modern society.

The grand majority of terrorist attacks still happen in the Middle East, at any rate, and if anything, any solutions to the terrorist problem should be aimed at stabilizing the situation over there. As it is, don't expect things to get any less chaotic over the coming years. But also don't expect the numbers to approach anything close to "I can't go there, I'll get killed!" levels, either.

What does it matter for the people in Western Europe that most attacks are in the Middle East? That is also bad. But with these things you don't go: oh, whatever, it is worse somewhere else.

And I don't expect it to get better, because we are somewhere stuck in a place where nobody does anything, both with right wing tactics or left wing, whichever your prefer or think works.

I just get tired of people trying to downplay these events. Yes, we know it is terrible somewhere else. Yes, we know the reasons people are being brainwashed by terrorist organizations. Yes, we know Europe is not somehow unsafe to travel to. But that doesn't mean comparisons with decades ago or other things that kill people are very valid to take concerns away.

 

[RalchAC]

Someone commented before that there were 3 attackers though?

Is that false?

As far as I've read, we have:

The person that's been arrested.
It seems they found an Spanish passport in the van that was found first.
The second van has been found 70km away from Barcelona's city center.
The city center of Barcelona has been closed and people is being evacuated. A couple of cars have tried to override the controls. One of those 2 cars' drivers has been shot and killed. The other managed to flee.

I'm watching the news right now, if something I've written is wrong I'll edit it.

 

[Acidote]

Someone commented before that there were 3 attackers though?

Is that false?

There's more people involved. Nothing official yet beyond that.

 

[DrDomVonDoom]

People need to stop the fear mongering. Being shot in America by police and being killed by a terrorist in Europe as a tourist are astronomical events. Yes people do have that happen, people also have heart attacks and get hit by cars and get murdered but you needn't walk through life scared of every shadows.

Chances are someone in this thread isn't gonna make it To this weekend so calm the fuck down.

 

[demosthenes]

Getting locked out of restaurant, don't know what to do. American consulate? Only have drivers licence on me.

 

[MKIL65]

Ah, so the 3rd attacker might still be on loose... Fuck.

 

[Syder]

from reddit

Barcelonian here. The last few months, after the recent attacks, every time I crossed the Ramblas I thought about how easy would it be to do what that people did today. Hundreds of pedestrians and not a single bollard. Barcelona <3 :'(

I've been to this area, from what I can remember it takes about 20 minutes to walk the distance this vehicle travelled. It's honestly shocking this didn't happen sooner with how little protection there is against it.

 

[BBboy20]

Friend of mine saw that van that plowed those people.

FUCK

 

[Hjod]

Getting locked out of restaurant, don't know what to do. American consulate? Only have drivers licence on me.

Yes, that's your best bet.

Other than that you could go back to your hotell if you have one.

Stay safe!

 

[backflip10019]

Getting locked out of restaurant, don't know what to do. American consulate? Only have drivers licence on me.

Where's your passport? I'd grab that then head to the consulate.

 

[MastAndo]

All fear is irrational that doesn't mean it is not valid. Emotionally detached mathematical explanations of dead by terrorism do nothing but make people angrier. Stop doing it.

Right? You won't see expression of fear imposed by other groups be undermined by statistics like it is here (not without severe backlash, at least), even if death by their hands is equally, or even more unlikely. People have a right and a valid reason to be afraid of terrorism, especially those of us in big cities. The statistical unlikeliness of it affecting each individual isn't the point. It's pretty appalling that this narrative is so present in this thread.

Regardless, this is a horrible tragedy through and through. RIP to all the victims, and hoping for a recovery for all those injured.

 

[Monkeyball]

Such heroes, attacking innocent defenseless civilians for your hilarious greater cause of bullshit.

 

[Vastag]

.

 

[demosthenes]

Where's your passport? I'd grab that then head to the consulate.

In the hotel which I can't get to. Because it's near the attack.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

My heart breaks at how shitty our world is sometimes. Too often.

 

[Nev]

Getting locked out of restaurant, don't know what to do. American consulate? Only have drivers licence on me.

Uh sucks that I'm not in Bcn atm. I live literally 10 minutes from where this happened.

Where are you? You should be safe going back to your hotel unless it's in Ramblas. If it is, you should probably head north towards Vila de Gràcia.

It's one of the nicest neighbourhoods in the city, it's far from the attack and there's always people in its squares until late, though the latter might not be true today.

If you can get inside some other place just do that.

 

[backflip10019]

In the hotel which I can't get to. Because it's near the attack.

Yeah, then I'd just go to the consulate now.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Getting locked out of restaurant, don't know what to do. American consulate? Only have drivers licence on me.

Unless your hotel is near the area of the attack, just go back to it.

Probably you'll need to get a taxi and traffic must be chaotic.

Edit: If the hotel is near the area of the attack, yes, go to the consulate.

 

[Syder]

Oh fuck... I've just seen the video... JFC

 

[JCH!]

In the hotel which I can't get to. Because it's near the attack.

I'm in BCN right now, let me know if I can do anything to help you.

 

[Kaako]

Just caught this on the news recently. God damnit.
My heart goes to all the victims and innocent lives lost. R.I.P

 

[H1PSTER]

Precisely. Is anyone going to be daft enough to walk up to the surviving family of a victim, let alone the parent of a child and say "Did you know statistically they were more likely to die from heart disease or a bad trip and fall?".

Terrorist attacks aren't accidents, nor are they naturally occurring causes of death. It's usually a brutal and sudden loss of life through a calculated and/or planned attack. Often in places where you expect social cohesion and safety in numbers (public spaces/shops/restaurants).

Yes, people should always try and live their life and not give into fear, but it can just be a bit tasteless to roll out the "global death statistics" in the wake of a terror attack.

If someone said it to someone who lost a family member from it they would be an idiot.

However I often do say similar to those who are unnerved by these kind of events because as shitty as they are, it is true.

The one I normally go with is "the likelihood of you being involved in something like this is one in nine million, you shouldn't be afraid to live your life because if you are, they've won."

However after the recent Manchester/London attacks in Blighty I went to Edinburgh, quite close to the dates of those attacks and I did feel unnerved in large groups of people around the castle so I suppose it does work in some way - as much as I push that fact I can totally understand how it can't help as much as I wish it could.

These people are scumbags and we shouldn't actually live in anxiety because of them, we should live our lives and show that fear won't take over them - why should we allow fear to aid us in hating others that aren't white, brown or black? Or why should we allow fear to aid us in disliking those of another religion?

I've grown up around all colours and creeds, not once have I felt unsafe around any of them... The agenda today is too easily pushed because we're so close to the media and it sucks.

 

[spuckthew]

Yeah, then I'd just go to the consulate now.

Forgive my ignorance, but would it not be safer to just stay put in the hotel, especially if it is actually near the attack? I sure as shit wouldn't want to be wondering outside right now.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

Why all the mixed reports that I see appearing on Facebook and such? No hostage situation at all? That is good to hear. It's also a good reminder why I barely visit Facebook anymore.

Have the assholes been caught/killed?

 

[Acidote]

Why all the mixed reports that I see appearing on Facebook and such? No hostage situation at all? That is good to hear. It's also a good reminder why I barely visit Facebook anymore.

Have the assholes been caught/killed?

There's confusion. Driss Oukabi has been arrested, but apparantly he has turned himself in at a police station saying that someone stole his documentation and he has decided to say it now because of what happened. He has been arrested anyways until clarified and because there was a search warrant for him regarding domestic violence.

 

[H1PSTER]

Why all the mixed reports that I see appearing on Facebook and such? No hostage situation at all? That is good to hear. It's also a good reminder why I barely visit Facebook anymore.

Have the assholes been caught/killed?

They let the hostages go, one died (AFAIK) and one was arrested.

There's confusion, Driss Oukabi has been arrested, but apparantly he has turned himself in at a police station saying that someone stole his documentation and has decided to say it now because of what happened. He has been arrested anyways until clarified and because there was a search warrant for him regarding domestic violence.

Is this him or another dude?

SFW.

 

[H1PSTER]

Edit: Sorry for the double post, I swear I clicked edit...

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

One of the 80 injureds, just died, a 3 year old kid.



R.I.P

No oficial, just saw on TV.

They let the hostages go, one died (AFAIK) and one was arrested.

Police says that there has been never an hostage situation.

 

[demosthenes]

Forgive my ignorance, but would it not be safer to just stay put in the hotel, especially if it is actually near the attack? I sure as shit wouldn't want to be wondering outside right now.

I can't get to my hotel.