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[Kudo]

No, they would benefit from letting PS4 users play with other users. Like you know, making smaller games having bigger communities ?
They want PS4 users to have more value on their PS4.

But it's crazy that we're still having the conversation about "how does Sony benefit that" and not "how does users benefit that". That's a pretty interesting view some people have here.

But if you want a concrete exemple of how Sony's dropping the ball here: PS4 version of Minecraft wont be getting the latest update with tons of features. Which makes it a legacy version

As far as I know, PS4 seems to have biggest playerbase for most games, so they probably don't think it's an issue. Basing this info on recent COD and BF playercounts so there might be exceptions.

I've never had any issues matchmaking on console game, and I know nobody who owns Xbox One, so I cannot say I would benefit at all from this X0-PS4 crossplay personally but I do think it should be allowed. But I can understand their decision, I just don't see how having this crossplay would make people spend more money in their ecosystem.
Sure, it would me lots of people happy, but those people already have their consoles. Maybe because I personally don't benefit from this change, my view is selfish, but so be it.

And true, they're hurting from it already in form of that Minecraft update, curious to see as other platforms start moving towards crossplay future if Sony will be left behind during this generation.

So, so many Sony spokepersons here...

"It is just a business decision."

Yeah, so what? It actively hurts players. It is segregation. You guys think that it is ok to prevent people from playing with their mates if the technology is there?

Crossplay should be a basic feature in this day and age, on every platform where it is viable, per games basis. It should be up to devs if they want crossplay and with whom.

I understand that it hurts many players, but I also understand the reason behind it, am I a spokeperson now? I haven't touched my PS4 in months thanks to Switch.
Yes, it should be basic feature, it should have been last gen, it wasn't.

EDIT: And of course, Sony is and should be critized here, as it is valid. If my post already didn't make that clear enough.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Now then, what details are going off from? Protect the children isn't a detaildd explanation of why Sony doesn't allow CP.

It's the one that they saw fit to give. I don't understand why you feel like Sony's lackluster explanation excuses them from scrutiny or criticism. That it's not detailed is on them. If they had a detailed explanation that they felt was palatable to the masses, they would have delivered it by now.

As I stated before, the details we're working off of are the several statements made by several developers that cross-play is something they can achieve simply so long as they're allowed to by the platform holder. Actual details that exist and that allow us to criticize Sony's denial of crossplay, on the grounds that developers desire it and can make it happen easily and securely.

That's something more concrete than the nebulous assumption that Sony has actual good reasons in leiu of the statement they actually gave us, but they just won't tell us. It's especially asinine to use that logic to attempt to preclude discussion on the topic entirely. So we can't talk about this until Sony prepares a nicer PR statement about it?

I get your concerns. You don't want people speaking too strongly when we don't have explicit details that explain this situation inside and out. That doesn't mean we can't demand a better explaination in lieu of the one we have. That doesn't mean we can't press Sony because we'd like developers to be able to utilize cross-play when we want'. That doesn't mean we can't say they're being shitty, because they kind of are right now, even if Microsoft ain't angels.

 

[Crayon]

"Protect the children" means "we will not budge on this and don't want to talk about it." At least to me. The reason is that invoking the safety of children is sort of unassailable. Even when everyone knows it's horseshit, you would cross a fairly thick line to say "I don't believe you care about children" in an interview or something.

 

[Equanimity]

Already adressed that. People couldn't play online before. Does it mean no online play is okay going forward ?

Whatever the market demands.

It's the one that they saw fit to give. I don't understand why you feel like Sony's lackluster explanation excuses them from scrutiny or criticism. That it's not detailed is on them. If they had a detailed explanation that they felt was palatable to the masses, they would have delivered it by now.

As I stated before, the details we're working off of are the several statements made by several developers that cross-play is something they can achieve simply so long as they're allowed to by the platform holder. Actual details that exist and that allow us to criticize Sony's denial of crossplay, on the grounds that developers desire it and can make it happen easily and securely.

It doesn't. I think it's a bullshit excuse and only complicates things furher.

That's something more concrete than the nebulous assumption that Sony has actual good reasons in leiu of the statement they actually gave us, but they just won't tell us. It's especially asinine to use that logic to attempt to preclude discussion on the topic entirely. So we can't talk about this until Sony prepares a nicer PR statement about it?

I didn't say they have a good reason hidden from us. You want to continue discussing this topic knowing Sony's explaination, be my guest.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Crossplay should be something for all. SONY being petty is just SONY being petty.

No thanks, I would rather PC get cross play with PS4 than cross play with only Xbox and Switch. Bigger pool.

When I played a lot of Dragon Age Inquisition online I wished PC could play with PS4 community. The xbox one version had about the same size of players as the PC. PS4 weekly challenges were frequently nearly double the requirement of Xbox One and PC.

As a fan if there's multiplayer for Dragon Age 4 I doubt Bioware will pick PS4 for PC players to group with because of the microsoft deals, and that makes me sad, but I guess it's better than nothing. The last time I tried Dragon Age Multiplayer I gave up searching for players, but it seemed like PS4 players were still moving along with regular pickup games.

Sure it would be nice if all platforms moving forward had crossplay for multiplatform games, but I don't see that happening until the consoles stop charging for online multiplayer. The leader will always want to use it's leverage for more subs, game and console sales.

 

[Wagram]

As a consumer it sucks, but I can't blame them from a business perspective. I understand why they're doing it. Doesn't mean I have to like it though.

I'm not going to sit there and commend Microsoft either because you sure as shit know if the positions were reversed they would do the same thing (like they did last generation).

 

[perfectsil]

The platform with the biggest player base also benefit from getting a bigger player base from crossplay, you get better quality of matches (skill level,ping times etc), games that take time to search for opponents with same skill level like Rocket League you benefit from less time searching for a match

There are also smaller modes/maps of popular games that would benefit, example when I play PS4 BF1 operations on a DLC map often I have to wait for 10 players on each side to show up, a bigger player base to play with would improve my experience on PS4.

 

[Crayon]

Really the console market leader is probably the most difficult part of this to get to budge. It could be done but it will take leverage and that has to be cultivated with smaller victories. When the minecraft update is out and people are enjoying the benefits, that will be a good time to gain leverage.

 

[El-Pistolero]

Sony won't do it because they are winning. There is no reason for them to allow it so it won't happen. Masses won't care anyway, I guess.

Pretty much. They have nothing to gain from it; Microsoft on the other hand...
Yes, it is not a praiseworthy stance, but it make complete sense from a business point of view. MS would be ecstatic to transition into a platform agnostic environment, but Sony still views their PS brand as a promising and lucrative system to be kept sealed...

 

[Head.spawn]

This was probably more of a Namco decision. Sony has never seemed to have problems with OC just other consoles.

Namco said it is 1st party policy blocking it between consoles (they said P2P crossplay is a no-go), outside of that they didn't want to fractured support elsewhere.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Wow, get your sarcasm detector fixed. Jesus.

It's hard to tell in these threads to be fair

 

[Complicated]

"Protect the children" means "we will not budge on this and don't want to talk about it." At least to me. The reason is that invoking the safety of children is sort of unassailable. Even when everyone knows it's horseshit, you would cross a fairly thick line to say "I don't believe you care about children" in an interview or something.

I think it's pretty gross and very "assailable" to suggest your business partners and competitors aren't properly protecting the children who use their products. If Psyonix, Microsoft, Nintendo, and all these other developers are allowing kids to be preyed upon why is Sony in business with them at all?

 

[CountAntonius]

Namco said it is 1st party policy blocking it between consoles (they said P2P crossplay is a no-go), outside of that they didn't want to fractured support elsewhere.

Ah that's right. I guess we haven't had any P2P crossplay yet which eliminates a large amount of console games.

 

[Jarod McChicken]

But if you want a concrete exemple of how Sony's dropping the ball here: PS4 version of Minecraft wont be getting the latest update with tons of features. Which makes it a legacy version

PS4 being the market leader by far, if anything the loss is for the publisher here. Hey, it's Microsoft.

 

[Vena]

If anything the loss is for the publisher here. Hey, it's Microsoft.

Nah. This is Minecraft, Sony is the only one losing here. When a parent goes to buy Minecraft from here on out they'll either get it for Xbox, Mobile, PC, or the Switch.

Sony's consoles haven't shown health/strength in family software, they're now also losing the biggest one.

 

[funkystudent]

No, they would benefit from letting PS4 users play with other users. Like you know, making smaller games having bigger communities ?
They want PS4 users to have more value on their PS4.

But it's crazy that we're still having the conversation about "how does Sony benefit that" and not "how does users benefit that". That's a pretty interesting view some people have here.

But if you want a concrete exemple of how Sony's dropping the ball here: PS4 version of Minecraft wont be getting the latest update with tons of features. Which makes it a legacy version

I feel like Minecraft is its own special situation.

That isnt a cut and dry as simple Cross Play. Thats "hey we dont want you to need a Xbox log in to play a PlayStation game" and I can at least see why they would block that one.


However for 3rd party games with their own set ups I really dont see the issue other then Sony being stupid.

 

[ODDI]

Here we go again with another cross play debate.

Spoilers, nobody wins.

 

[Vena]

I feel like Minecraft is its own special situation.

That isnt a cut and dry as simple Cross Play. Thats "hey we dont want you to need a Xbox log in to play a PlayStation game" and I can at least see why they would block that one.

You need a Windows log-in, something that near everyone is in possession of in some form or another.

 

[NintendosBooger]

Sony is on the verge of establishing a universal ecosystem for all home console games. Controlling the volatility of the industry by dismantling the other walled gardens for good is their objective. Why would they strengthen the existing ecosystems of their competitors by allowing their customers to crosslink with them?

 

[BigEmil]

You need a Windows log-in, something that near everyone is in possession of in some form or another.

I wonder if Microsoft would allow PSN logins on Xbox

 

[CookTrain]

Sony is on the verge of establishing a universal ecosystem for all home console games.

Howso?

 

[Vena]

I wonder if Microsoft would allow PSN logins on Xbox

For what purpose? The purpose in Minecraft is logical: friendslist synchronization, data storage, and world-storage/DLC tracking across numerous platforms. This needs a middle-man management of some sort and infrastructure for this already exists in Windows.

Why would you need or use a PSN log-in on Xbox? These seems like a superfluous deflection of the argument.

 

[Crayon]

I think it's pretty gross and very "assailable" to suggest your business partners and competitors aren't properly protecting the children who use their products. If Psyonix, Microsoft, Nintendo, and all these other developers are allowing kids to be preyed upon why is Sony in business with them at all?

I didn't really get that impression. It seemed like a very shallow hand wave move.

 

[Jarod McChicken]

Nah. This is Minecraft, Sony is the only one losing here. When a parent goes to buy Minecraft from here on out they'll either get it for Xbox, Mobile, PC, or the Switch.

Sony's consoles haven't shown health/strength in family software, they're now also losing the biggest one.

Wow, zero sales for PS4 Minecraft going forward ? Must be a damn good update. And indeed, there are no family market on PS4, as we will probably see once again when PlayLink vanish in two months. The good thing is, looking at numbers worldwide, Sony doesn't need it.

 

[BigEmil]

For what purpose? The purpose in Minecraft is logical: friendslist synchronization, data storage, and world-storage/DLC tracking across numerous platforms. This needs a middle-man management of some sort and infrastructure for this already exists in Windows.

Why would you need or use a PSN log-in on Xbox? These seems like a superfluous deflection of the argument.

I meant imagine Sony owned Minecraft and then Xbox users of Minecraft would need a PSN account to login to play this game


Would Microsoft allow it? I doubt it

 

[Synth]

I wonder if Microsoft would allow PSN logins on Xbox

Let's have Sony publish a game on Xbox so we can find out.

 

[quest]

I wonder if Microsoft would allow PSN logins on Xbox

If Sony wanted to bring any of their heavy hitters to Xbox Phil could not say yes fast enough same for Nintendo. Sony being backwards in thinking about the whole situation it only makes everyone more money especially developers.

 

[Lom1lo]

I meant imagine Sony owned Minecraft and then Xbox users of Minecraft would need a PSN account to login to play this game


Would Microsoft allow it? I doubt it

I dont see why not ? The account isnt for Fun, it is needed to provide this stuff. I mean if this was the reason, sony would have said so and not bring this children bullshit to the table.

 

[Vena]

Wow, zero sales for PS4 Minecraft going forward ? Must be a damn good update. And indeed, there are no family market on PS4, as we will probably see once again when PlayLink vanish in two months. The good thing is, looking at numbers worldwide, Sony doesn't need it.

I meant imagine Sony owned Minecraft and then Xbox users of Minecraft would need a PSN account to login to play this game

Would Microsoft allow it? I doubt it

I mean, how does one discuss a scenario that does not exist? Does Sony even have the infrastructure to accomplish a similar result?

 

[Spiritwalker]

Prideful, stubborn Sony. Such fools.

 

[Strangelove77]

#4arrogantSonyNot4theplayersMCUhastoomanyquipsnotenoughsteaks

 

[Durante]

"Many sides."

This thread in a nutshell.

 

[SHAFT MASTER]

I'm pretty glad that sony isn't opening up their network to xbl. I don't want their network compromised because by hackers and kiddy fiddlers because they buckled to pressure and opened things up.
Just look at all the recent threads about people getting random dm's by people trying to solicit sex or drugs or whatever. I don't want my 7 year old kid to get a message like that when all he's trying to do is play call of duty with his friends.
Keep them off your lawn sony.

 

[Shambala]

Here we go again.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

Sony continues to be lame. In other news, the grass is green.

 

[Machina]

Arrogant Sony is the fucking worst

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Nah. This is Minecraft, Sony is the only one losing here. When a parent goes to buy Minecraft from here on out they'll either get it for Xbox, Mobile, PC, or the Switch.

Sony's consoles haven't shown health/strength in family software, they're now also losing the biggest one.

I see where you're coming from, but this I find this a tad hyperbolic. They're not 'losing' Minecraft. It's not as if Minecraft sales on PS4 are going to stop altogether, or even slow down for that matter. When a parent goes to buy Minecraft from here on out, they likely won't even know what cross play is. Like you say, this is Minecraft. It's going to sell regardless of what handicaps it has on individual systems.

As eye-roll worthy I find Sony's stance on this is, the only people who feel strongly about it enough to "make a stand" are enthusiasts.

Arrogant Sony is the fucking worst

Stubborn, yes. Grossly so. Arrogant, I don't think so.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

Yea Sony is being ridiculous.

BUT I can tell you one thing for sure, if MS was in the lead it'd have been Sony allowing cross platform play and MS denying it. Afterall remember MS is the same company that demands exclusive content for their version if the game comes out late on their platform, resulting in developers having only two options i.e. either delay the game or give in to their demands. It's also the same company that blocks universal standards like USB with a requirement for a proprietary chip (they do this for wireless usb chat).

Yeah, without a doubt.

Which is way I find the Microsoft praising to be hilarious. Microsoft isn't allowing cross play because they are "for the players" (lol) but because they want (need?) the higher install base that PS4 has.

Sony conversely is no place to make Xbox owners happy, they want the xbox player ecosystem to suck so that xbox owners buy a PS4.

I'd love for cross-play, and in fact I'd like some of Sony's exclusive online games like MLB The Show to show up on Xbox with cross play since they don't have a baseball sim, but from a business perspective there is no secret why Sony is not allowing cross play with Xbox.

 

[CookTrain]

I see where you're coming from, but this I find this a tad hyperbolic. They're not 'losing' Minecraft. It's not as if Minecraft sales on PS4 are going to stop altogether, or even slow down for that matter. When a parent goes to buy Minecraft from here on out, they likely won't even know what cross play is. Like you say, this is Minecraft. It's going to sell regardless of what handicaps it has on individual systems.

As eye-roll worthy I find Sony's stance on this is, the only people who feel strongly about it enough to "make a stand" are enthusiasts.

I think when Youtubers start showing the difference between the versions, there's going to be a lot of unhappy kids, creating unhappy parents.

 

[Loris146]

Making your system less appealing is a terrible business decision.

Yes but the "general market" does not give a shit about this. I'd love to play with xbox and pc users but i don't know if it's a bad or a good business decision.

 

[Vena]

I see where you're coming from, but this I find this a tad hyperbolic. They're not 'losing' Minecraft. It's not as if Minecraft sales on PS4 are going to stop altogether, or even slow down for that matter. When a parent goes to buy Minecraft from here on out, they likely won't even know what cross play is. Like you say, this is Minecraft. It's going to sell regardless of what handicaps it has on individual systems.

As eye-roll worthy I find Sony's stance on this is, the only people who feel strongly about it enough to "make a stand" are enthusiasts.

Its not going to zero-out obviously, but Minecraft is driven by LP and online interaction/communities, and a lot of word of mouth transitions and interests. That's going to reverberate heavily against Sony and their sales potential of Minecraft, simple as that really.

If a parent is weighing getting a PS4/X1/Switch for their child, Minecraft has become a peg for X1/Switch and a realizable loss for PS4 as a selling point. The child's input on the basis of Minecraft is now also skewed against PS4.

 

[Jarod McChicken]

Its not going to zero-out obviously, but Minecraft is driven by LP and online interaction/communities, and a lot of word of mouth transitions and interests. That's going to reverberate heavily against Sony and their sales potential of Minecraft, simple as that really.

If a parent is weighing getting a PS4/X1/Switch for their child, Minecraft has become a peg for X1/Switch and a realizable loss for PS4 as a selling point. The child's input on the basis of Minecraft is now also skewed against PS4.

I'd say personally Minecraft is literally the last thing you buy a PS4 for, but sure, could be interesting to track the sales of each versions once the famous update hits.

 

[Verder]

4thesales

 

[GhostTrick]

The good thing is, looking at numbers worldwide, Sony doesn't need it.

Wow. This is apologism at its best.
"Sony doesnt need it."
"PS4 is selling well, so it's good news. It doesnt matter".

I thought it was about "4ThePlayers" and not "4TheNumbers". The important thing here isn't Sony's sales but users getting a worse version. Users not getting access to a function.

 

[sense]

As a consumer, this fucking sucks.

As a business, I'd do the same.

Pretty much this. Apparently saying this is defending Sony to some people.....

 

[Jangowuzhere]

From a business perspective, this kind of decision makes no sense for Sony.

 

[Radical Edward]

Yeah. I really see no reason for Sony to let this happen. It hasn't hurt their sales in the slightest.

They keep the games coming and most are happy.

 

[GhostTrick]

Pretty much this. Apparently saying this is defending Sony to some people.....

Because losing one of the biggest game and locking out your users doesnt seem like a clever business decision.
That's why people are saying this is defending Sony.

 

[Radical Edward]

Wow. This is apologism at its best.
"Sony doesnt need it."
"PS4 is selling well, so it's good news. It doesnt matter".

I thought it was about "4ThePlayers" and not "4TheNumbers". The important thing here isn't Sony's sales but users getting a worse version. Users not getting access to a function.

Users have been getting amazing games to play on a consistent basis. Sounds like 4theplayers to me...

 

[ShdwDrake]

Because losing one of the biggest game and locking out your users doesnt seem like a clever business decision.
That's why people are saying this is defending Sony.

There's no proof to this but there is data that points to it not mattering (sales). Why is it a bad business decision? Doesn't seem like one to me. (They should have crossplay imo but it's not a bad business decision to not have it.)