i'm sensitive to the argument that it's up to the parents to decide when to have the talk with their kids; they're their kids after all. And I get that Splatoon is a video game and that video game spaces are traditionally thought of as being non-partisan or at least just about 'fun'. But I think that, especially on those who think of themselves as LGBT allies but who 'don't want to talk about it right now', a desire to shield children from the reality that lgbt issues are part and parcel of life in every aspect of the world - not limited only to private arenas but also to public ones (or even corporately-mediated spaces as well) - is a view that can and will lead to more negative outcomes.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
GI: Inkopolis In Splatoon 2 Is Drowning Out Hate With Trans-Positivity
- Thread starter WrenchNinja
- Start date
Evilkazzzz
Neo Member
Sigh.
I'll never understand why some people choose to fight these battles. There is literally no negative impact from trans-positivity posts. None.
In fact, the only impact it should have is making someone smile and feel better about themselves.
And if the topic bothers you at all, you need to stop and ask yourself why you feel that way. Because that's a problem.
I'll never understand why some people choose to fight these battles. There is literally no negative impact from trans-positivity posts. None.
In fact, the only impact it should have is making someone smile and feel better about themselves.
And if the topic bothers you at all, you need to stop and ask yourself why you feel that way. Because that's a problem.
User123456
Member
Hey, maybe you don't think any of that, that's cool. I just said it was a possibility.
If your problem legitimately just is "I'd rather have Inkopolis handle topics that I like", then I'm sorry but you can't do anything about that beyond posting what you want to talk about and hoping others engage. It's pretty much like the "off-topic" section of any given forum, except it's the only one.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
Regressive opinions aren't valid, and society is doing a pretty good job of letting people who hold those views know it. It's slow, and it is a battle, but the gradual shift in broadened rights and acceptance speaks far greater volumes than Pastor John leading a group who is afraid The Gays ruined Jesus' second coming.
Conor_Fool
Banned
Judging by "PickleRick", it's pretty unfortunate how many fucking assholes are fans of Rick and Morty. Such a smart and unique show being hijacked by trolls. Mr Poopy Butthole would not approve :/
"Valid" opinion is all dependent on what they and how they say it. But it's largely gonna be harder for them to express their opinion without being inappropriate, harmful, or derogatory, from my experience. And those kind of messages, much like on this forum, aren't tolerated on Inkopolis, soooo....
This may come as a surprise to you, but kids are already in the middle of a culture clash. Everyone who can understand language is. Kids learn and emulate from those who raise them, and I was already in the middle of a political tug-of-war between my parents and my grandparents since I was a child. Parents are trying to influence their kids, kids influence each other. That's what growing up is, you experience and learn about the world, and while you ultimately make your own decision on it, the decisions you make are greatly influenced by those around you and what they think. Culture changes constantly, and there's always a clash.
And there is a positive side. For one thing, orientation and gender identity isn't something that suddenly appears on the onset of puberty, although obviously children aren't sexual. Young childhood crushes are a thing, after all. On top of that, it's not like prepubescent kids are the only ones playing this game, either. People of all ages are playing this game, many of them teens or young adults in a situation where they could use some support when trying to come to terms with their identity of orientation.
And more importantly, "LGBT people exist, and that's okay" is clearly the positive side, because even if a kid isn't focused on their sexuality and identity, they will be once they do hit puberty, and for those who are gay , trans or genderfluid, it's better for them to experience an environment where they're welcome and accepted, and not be fearful or self-hating for who they are, and to create an environment where they're not mocked by those who are straight for their identity or orientation.
These are human beings with real feelings, who have done nothing wrong and have no control over their sexuality or identity. To treat them with respect as valid and equal individuals is something to strive for, because the alienation of LGBT individuals as strange, unusual, or worse has led to untold amounts of harm to LGBT individuals and is what's led to this situation in the first place.
SolicitorPirate
Member
You poor dear. I'm so sorry that marginalized people affirming their existence and value is hurting your ability to play a video game! What a terrible injustice they have wrought on you! My heart weeps for you!
A Link to the Past
Banned
Yep. I have no problem with the show, but damn does it ever attract shitty people.
It's kind of funny how Steven Universe is positive, Rick and Morty is negative, yet they seem to attract assholes all the same.
Terrible people are fans of good things too. It's not like all bigots only watch Duck Dynasty.
Rickenslacker
Banned
Well that settles that as far as "think of the kids" goes. Though I'd figure it wouldn't be the LGBT+ positivity that kids need shielding from, rather the vile goons you're gonna see when given the outlet.
It was a heartwarming thing to see, personally, especially at the thought that kids may see that kind of positivity.
I don't see why this topic would be inappropriate for children; the sooner they become aware of LGBT, the better. Thinking it's taboo or inappropriate just gives LGBT this sense of otherness.
What people should be worried about instead, is kids getting exposed to hateful messages.
What people should be worried about instead, is kids getting exposed to hateful messages.
Lol, how did you go about it?
Seriously, there are MUCH worse things kids could be seeing in online gaming communities than "Your identity is valid"
SuperBlank
Member
I'm not, because I'm only referring to my interest in those Splatoon posts. (read again: Splatoon posts, not the topic itself). Never have I spoke on behalf of anyone other than myself.
I'm disinterested in both sides in Splatoon. Not in every aspect of my life. Nor does that mean I think they have equally valid arguments or perspectives on the matter. I haven't even shared my opinion on the matter outside how it effects me within the confines of Inkopolis. There have been a lot of accusations, but no one has even asked.
Also, that entire last sentence is convenient reductionism. Nothing in politics is just politics, because everything has real world effects. A discussion about economics is ultimately a discussion of my money. A discussion about immigration is a discussion about families. And these are important discussions to have, and LGBT is wrapped up into it. LGBT rights are important. Politics are important. But I don't think that discourse need exist within a game like Splatoon. That's my opinion. I'm not going to feel bad about myself simply because I don't care to indulge in that discussion when I'm playing Splatoon. Or because I don't go "Yeah!" a bunch of posts, even ones I might agree with. I don't play Splatoon for that. That doesn't inherently mean I don't care about those topics at all. I do. They effect me. I've never once stated posts should be removed simply because I don't care about them. And despite what some people here have told me about myself, they don't inhibit my enjoyment of the game.
I'm just not there for that, which, considering the game really has nothing to do with it, isn't such a crazy concept.
And with that, I think I'm done. But feel free to continue the accusations.
Don't worry, it doesn't. What a shame it'd be if it did.
Conor_Fool
Banned
Not to get too off topic, but I've been seeing more and more far right and borderline nazis getting the top comment on Rick and Morty facebook posts. Which is so ironic, considering the following clips:
follow your leader ya nazi fucks
entire montage
[extremely] surprisingly, the large majority of the top comments on both videos are actually pretty reinforcing for the fanbase as a whole. But of course some replies are despicable.
/R&M fandom rant
Don't play that passive-aggressive bullshit when discussing other people's existences.
pinkurocket
Member
Hmmmmm? A game with social features bringing up social issues? I never.
The drawing feature in Splatoon 2 is super awkward in the sense that you can't actually open them like in Miiverse to discuss the topic that's brought up. I think that's a bit of a downfall. Like, it's not actually meant to be a social feature but if you give people a way of leaving personal messages, of course they'll do that.
I'm so happy to see the positive messages, I think Inkopolis is a perfect place to spread positivity on any subject like this. It's not a political issue, it's nothing sexual. However you have people that turn it into that because their close-minded views can't comprehend it. That's unfortunate.
The drawing feature in Splatoon 2 is super awkward in the sense that you can't actually open them like in Miiverse to discuss the topic that's brought up. I think that's a bit of a downfall. Like, it's not actually meant to be a social feature but if you give people a way of leaving personal messages, of course they'll do that.
I'm so happy to see the positive messages, I think Inkopolis is a perfect place to spread positivity on any subject like this. It's not a political issue, it's nothing sexual. However you have people that turn it into that because their close-minded views can't comprehend it. That's unfortunate.
Yeah, I noticed that the posts in my plaza had all changed after I had not played the game in a few days, and figured something like this was going on. I'm sure the intention is that players end up seeing more cool stuff, but knowing that it's based on popularity makes the posts feel less personal, and them not necessarily being from the people you played with sorta sucks. Not being able to know how many Fresh/Yeah votes your posts get is also a bit disappointing, as is being unable to comment on someone's post unless you know their social media account.
I don't own Splatoon 2 (or even a Switch yet), but this is really cool. I hope people keep spreading the love and drowning out the hate. And if seeing trans positivity makes you uncomfortable, well, I'm sure you'll get over it. Will trans people so easily get over the marginalisation, bullying, and violence they regularly suffer as a community?
Have you ever met a six year old? Trust me, gender issues is not their field of expertise. They can't even spell gender. Or "hello" in many cases.
I can see why people are happy about these messages and why people don't want such debates topics discussed in their squid fighting game. It'll fade away regardless.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
No 6 year olds are playing splatoon
Cymbal Head
Banned
This is probably the best possible version of a message taking over the square.
That said, the square has just moved from one hegemonic type of post to another lately, and it would be nice to see a variety of things when I log on instead of 30 versions of the same thing.
That said, the square has just moved from one hegemonic type of post to another lately, and it would be nice to see a variety of things when I log on instead of 30 versions of the same thing.
I doubt super young kids (under 9 or 10) are largely playing Splatoon anyway, but I also feel like people don't give children enough credit.
Cosmonaut X
Member
I have three young daughters - 6, 7 and 7 - and they have all played Splatoon, the twins dressed as Callie and Marie for Halloween in 2015, and they're all currently pestering me to get a Switch because they know that's the only place to get Splatoon 2.
I don't have an issue with explaining trans issues or the concept of LGBT to them - we've already touched on some of that with them before now anyway - and I'm certainly not falling into "won't someone think of the children!" mode, but I don't think it's controversial to note that kids will be playing Splatoon 2, and they will be seeing the posts, both anti-trans and trans-positive. Some parents will be uncomfortable with that for a range of reasons - maybe they hold bigoted views themselves, perhaps they want games to be "safe" from anything that challenges them, or perhaps they're just not ready to have a conversation about sexuality and gender with their kids yet. I'm not going to have a problem with the posts or discussing it with my girls, and I hope it helps some people have open conversations about these issues with their kids.
Aarglefarg
Member
It isn't hard to explain to a child that there's more than just boys and girls, sometimes people find out later in life whether they are really a boy or girl or something else, or they always knew but other people assumed differently, etc.
Kids around that age often play around gender signals, eg boys getting nail polish done or stuff like that.
boiled goose
good with gravy
If you dont want politics in your game then blame those who make identities political, not those existing and asking for equality.
Telling others to shut up about asking for equality or to find the "correct" place are opinions formed from EXTREME PRIVILEGE. If you can't see that you're simply not good at critical thinking.
Telling others to shut up about asking for equality or to find the "correct" place are opinions formed from EXTREME PRIVILEGE. If you can't see that you're simply not good at critical thinking.
NHarmonic.
Member
People trying so hard to not sound transphobic while spilling shit, what a fucking sad world we live in.
You're bothered by a post in a game that shows support for people that probably have suffered constant abuse and discrimination, how can people not feel like shit when doing this stuff? I wonder.
You're bothered by a post in a game that shows support for people that probably have suffered constant abuse and discrimination, how can people not feel like shit when doing this stuff? I wonder.
You can't blame the US for being about politics nowadays. We're in the middle of being raped as a country and tensions are high.
Trans people are part of the Splatoon 2 community, so nope. They have absolutely something to do with Splatoon. And you might as well completely delete the hub/messages feature completely if you want it to be policed for messages that are not "directly" related to Splatoon. I think you are missing the whole point of the damn thing.
Factually, 6 year olds seems to understand the concept of gender vastly better than all adult bigoted fuckwits.
Gravy Boat
Member
The subject matter is irrelevant, but I know it'd get a bit fed up with seeing the same message over and over again regardless of how much I agree or disagree with it.
CannonFodder52
Member
Yea, that one is perfect.
The fight for human rights is not a meme if that's what you're getting at.
"What's that Splatoon game anyways? You turn into a squid or something?"
"It's the vanguard in the fight for global human rights."
"So are you a squid or..."
Me: Ummm... so you know characters like Bugs Bunny are animals with human characteristics?
Her: Who is Bugs Bunny?
Me: *Dramatically placing a hand on her shoulder* I have failed you, my child. Ok, how about Judy Hopps?
Her: Oh! Ok sure!
Me: Well, there are some people who really like that sort of thing and like to draw art and original characters or even pretend to be one. That's what furries are.
Her:... That's silly.
Me: Yes. Yes it is.
Her: Can I play Salmon Run now?
Being transgender is not a "radical idea". Not to mention there are 10 year old trans and younger...and you don't think different, you're just ignorant. And just who are these people of "different backgrounds" that aren't ready to deal with basic human rights? Your post is super weird, homeboy...
I saw an anti-trans message and was confused and sad. Then I saw a pro trans message and thought, "good for you"....then I saw twenty and figured this was just another weird meme war I missed out on and found the whole thing annoying. Now that I know it was in response to negativity, I'm cool with it. But I don't think it's wrong to not want literally every message in the plaza to be about transgender people or asexuality and that's how my last time in the plaza went.
It was cute to see some positivity stuff when I played last week. Then a few days ago there was outright transphobia in multiple posts in my lobby and it sucked.
Is Nintendo just not actually moderating anything?? Some of this shit is clearly vile and yet apparently has stuck around.
Is Nintendo just not actually moderating anything?? Some of this shit is clearly vile and yet apparently has stuck around.
That's not an official account though.
Even before this started I'd seen several people I follow on Twitter talk about how the first game was actually pretty important to them thinking about their gender and presentation.
And, personally, it and what I played of the first game have led me to think more about clothing and presentation, at the very least, myself.
Anyway- I can't believe anyone going "think of the children" with regards to positivity. Because you'd rather them see hateful messages I guess?
CannonFodder52
Member
Oops, for some reason I thought for sure it was. I think I was still half asleep.
Sorcerer Supreme
Member
Chainsawkitten
Member
Those are impressive costumes. About a million leagues above anything I had for Halloween (but Halloween wasn't big thing here, growing up).
You sound like a cool dad/mom.
