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Doctor Who Series 10 |OT| He's Back, and It's About Time

mclem

Member
The reports I saw said he would be dropping Play To The Whistle (he's a team captain) and Cash Strapped (which has only just started) but keep The Chase. Not sure how well that'll work out but I can understand why he'd want to try and stay on it, it's a huge hit.

Only thing that's a little odd here is that Cash Trapped was his own pet project, I could understand him being reluctant to drop it. On the other hand I could also see him starting to miss acting, it's been a little while since his last stuff (L&OUK ended in 2014, and I don't think he's done anything of note since then)

It would be an interesting dynamic that DW hasn't had before.

To be fair, female doctor and anything would be an interesting dynamic that DW hasn't had before, that's what's making all of this so exciting! I've mentally got the idea of "Brian Williams as a long-term Companion", and that'd be great. Curious what his motivation would be - I'm going to guess something along the lines of "Recently widowed and depressed".


Edit: And here's a thing: Chris Chibnall wrote P.S., the unshot (but storyboarded) epilogue for Angels Take Manhattan in which Brian found out about Rory and Amy's fate. I suspect this may not be insignificant.
 
Huh. I'm American and haven't watched Law & Order UK (or SJA, I'm a bad Who fan) and I'm definitely not familiar with the game shows so I've never heard of this guy before. Looks like it could be an interesting dynamic, though. I also think it's interesting that he's close to Capaldi's age.

Also, thanks for all the advice regarding the 8th Doctor's big finish dramas. I had no idea there were some clunkers in the Main Range. I'll probably give all of them a shot but now I know which ones I can skip. Paul McGann's voice is dreamy 😍 His Doctor is the right balance of cocky and charming, too. At least, so far.
 
I like Bradley Walsh but I'd prefer him as a Nardole-style bonus companion. It was Chibnall that wrote the whole posse thing into Dinosaurs in Space and I think most of his episodes have had quite a lot of characters floating about. Perhaps he's planning to make it more of an ensemble?
 

tomtom94

Member
One other thing I've been wondering since Whittaker was cast is I definitely remember commentators saying that a hidden bit of genius in casting Eccleston (and Piper) was that it helped give the show working-class appeal. Walsh would fit with an effort to replicate this. I wonder if this is something Chibnall is conscious of - maybe Whittaker is going to use her natural accent?

Edit: And here's a thing: Chris Chibnall wrote P.S., the unshot (but storyboarded) epilogue for Angels Take Manhattan in which Brian found out about Rory and Amy's fate. I suspect this may not be insignificant.

He wrote every televised appearance of Brian, as a matter of fact. Also PS is really lovely.
 
To be fair, female doctor and anything would be an interesting dynamic that DW hasn't had before, that's what's making all of this so exciting! I've mentally got the idea of "Brian Williams as a long-term Companion", and that'd be great. Curious what his motivation would be - I'm going to guess something along the lines of "Recently widowed and depressed".


Edit: And here's a thing: Chris Chibnall wrote P.S., the unshot (but storyboarded) epilogue for Angels Take Manhattan in which Brian found out about Rory and Amy's fate. I suspect this may not be insignificant.

Yes, that's is true.

Some people are wondering if Chibnall is preparing an ensemble-like TARDIS team which I think would be great. One of the best parts of the RTD era was all of the connections The Doctor how and how they got to know eachother.
 

tomtom94

Member
Some people are wondering if Chibnall is preparing an ensemble-like TARDIS team which I think would be great. One of the best parts of the RTD era was all of the connections The Doctor how and how they got to know eachother.

This would be the easiest way to immediately shake up Who, I think. Although I think Dinosaurs on a Spaceship has maybe too many characters for a single-parter, Chibnall has been there, done that, and got the t-shirt when it comes to ensemble casts.
 

Blader

Member
I'm not sure more companions is the way to go. I feel like if you've got more than two at a given time, one is going to inevitably be sidelined in some way.
 
Yes, that's is true.

Some people are wondering if Chibnall is preparing an ensemble-like TARDIS team which I think would be great. One of the best parts of the RTD era was all of the connections The Doctor how and how they got to know eachother.

I could be down for Bradley Walsh playing a dad that accompanies his daughter/son on their travels. As people have said, it would essentially be like Dinosaurs on a Spaceship with Brian. Having an actual family TARDIS team would be pretty rad.
 

Broken Joystick

At least you can talk. Who are you?
Sounds awful.

Sounds amazing.

doctorwhogafzma5i.gif
 
You know, I had the exact same thought of him being a parent traveling with his kid, especially after people brought up Brian Williams. I think having two companions is great, but I'm not sure about having more.

I'm going to keep an open mind, I absolutely hated Matt Lucas before series 10 but I ended up really liking Nardole.


I laughed entirely too hard at that.
 

Sephzilla

Member
Finished the first Matt Smith season last night. I like him as The Doctor and I enjoyed the season overall. The season finale with the Pandorica sort of felt something that should have been in a Tennant season though.

Amy Pond = <3
 
Finished the first Matt Smith season last night. I like him as The Doctor and I enjoyed the season overall. The season finale with the Pandorica sort of felt something that should have been in a Tennant season though.

Amy Pond = <3

Some of the concepts in that season were designed with Tennant in mind.
 

tomtom94

Member
Finished the first Matt Smith season last night. I like him as The Doctor and I enjoyed the season overall. The season finale with the Pandorica sort of felt something that should have been in a Tennant season though.

Amy Pond = <3

Series 5 in general has the feeling of Moffat not wanting to rock the boat too much. The story arc is very basic (arguably the most basic of the entire revival) and the finale is heavily based on RTD's style albeit with plenty of Moffat-y twists.

Series 6 is where Moffat went all out. (Although the first thing you'll notice is how much prettier everything looks)
 
Series 6 is where Moffat went all out. (Although the first thing you'll notice is how much prettier everything looks)

Series 6 is the moment the revived series really started to light up for me. A dream team and a blank page, now Moffat really shows what he can do. Even the comparatively dull Night Terrors is a delight.
 

tomtom94

Member
OTOH, 6 is where I almost quit watching. If I hadn't been binge-watching it I probably would have just topped tuning in.

Without wishing to ruin it for Sephzilla ahead of time, series 6 for me features the absolute nadir of Moffat's writing but the rest of the team step it up, particularly in the second half of the season.

Which is probably the reason why the Moffat backlash really started in earnest there.
 
Without wishing to ruin it for Sephzilla ahead of time, series 6 for me features the absolute nadir of Moffat's writing but the rest of the team step it up, particularly in the second half of the season.

Which is probably the reason why the Moffat backlash really started in earnest there.

It does have a couple of excellent standalones and a pretty solid two-parter. So I'd say that I agree.
 

Pagusas

Elden Member
Series 6 is the moment the revived series really started to light up for me. A dream team and a blank page, now Moffat really shows what he can do. Even the comparatively dull Night Terrors is a delight.

Surprising, Season 6 (and to some extend 5) are the absolute low points of the revival to me. Just horrible all around. Season 7 had a ton of clunkers too. Season 8 started horribly but I've learned to like the old grump ball, he's kinda what I expected a continuation of an old Tennant to be like.
 

Feffe

Member
Series 5 was my favorite Smith series! An interesting story arc, good character development and no episode as embarrassing as as Daleks in Manhattan or Lazarus Experiment often the Slitheen.

Series 6 was great in theory, but in practice it needed some rewrites here and there. Moffat was seriously behind them schedule and they filmed the first draft of Let's Kill Hitler and Wedding of River Song. Excellent ideas, bad execution.

Series 7... Eh, the Pond half felt unnecessary, the Clara half phoned in and unambitious. Moffat also gave up his story arc, with the Silence nowhere to be seen and that was unsatisfactory.

With Capaldi I think Moffat found the right balance between a multi-series story arc and good stand alone episodes. This time the story arc was more subtle ("Am I a good man?") and well executed.
 

mclem

Member
Interesting spoilery casting report in Doctor Who magazine concerning the Christmas special, re-reported by Digital Spy.

Jared Garfield - a Hollyoaks actor - has been cast to play Ben Jackson - as in the Hartnell-era companion at the time of Tenth Planet, originally played by Michael Craze
 
Interesting spoilery casting report in Doctor Who magazine concerning the Christmas special, re-reported by Digital Spy.

Jared Garfield - a Hollyoaks actor - has been cast to play Ben Jackson - as in the Hartnell-era companion at the time of Tenth Planet, originally played by Michael Craze

Well Polly was in the trailer afterall
 
Series 5 was my favorite Smith series! An interesting story arc, good character development and no episode as embarrassing as as Daleks in Manhattan or Lazarus Experiment often the Slitheen.

Series 6 was great in theory, but in practice it needed some rewrites here and there. Moffat was seriously behind them schedule and they filmed the first draft of Let's Kill Hitler and Wedding of River Song. Excellent ideas, bad execution.

Series 7... Eh, the Pond half felt unnecessary, the Clara half phoned in and unambitious. Moffat also gave up his story arc, with the Silence nowhere to be seen and that was unsatisfactory.

With Capaldi I think Moffat found the right balance between a multi-series story arc and good stand alone episodes. This time the story arc was more subtle ("Am I a good man?") and well executed.

Not to discount your opinions here, but don't you think this is over-analyzing the series? The Slytheen episodes will always be fun to watch because of the actors who played them. Daleks in Manhattan features a beautiful conjunction of dalek and Art Deco aesthetic as the Empire State Building rises amid the squalor of the Great Depression. The only thing wrong with the Lazarus Experiment is the really hopeless attempt to merge Gatiss's image into the CGI.

Your criticism of series 6 and 7 probably needs some expansion. I'm not sure why episodes such as the sublime Asylum of the Daleks, Dinosaurs on Spaceship or The Power of Three would be written off as "unnecessary." I should probably accept that any mention of Series 6 in this forum is regarded as an open invitation to bemoan Moffat's perverse willingness to write time travel-based stories in a series based on the premise of time travel, along with a dozen other inexplicable niggles. But maybe you can convince me that the Series 6 I watched and enjoyed was an illusion.
 
Not to discount your opinions here, but don't you think this is over-analyzing the series? The Slytheen episodes will always be fun to watch because of the actors who played them. Daleks in Manhattan features a beautiful conjunction of dalek and Art Deco aesthetic as the Empire State Building rises amid the squalor of the Great Depression. The only thing wrong with the Lazarus Experiment is the really hopeless attempt to merge Gatiss's image into the CGI.

Your criticism of series 6 and 7 probably needs some expansion. I'm not sure why episodes such as the sublime Asylum of the Daleks, Dinosaurs on Spaceship or The Power of Three would be written off as "unnecessary." I should probably accept that any mention of Series 6 in this forum is regarded as an open invitation to bemoan Moffat's perverse willingness to write time travel-based stories in a series based on the premise of time travel, along with a dozen other inexplicable niggles. But maybe you can convince me that the Series 6 I watched and enjoyed was an illusion.

How many times are you going to trot out the trifecta of "you're not paying enough attention", "you're over-analysing" or "it's not a good enough criticism" over having an actual debate about the episodes, though? Like, I prefer the RTD era, but I'll engage anybody in an interesting debate about the pros and cons of, say, Series 3, without just dismissing them out of hand - but I see some variation of these three (usually two of the three) directed at people on the regular, and I'm always just... confused by it.

Aaaanyway, RE the discussion above, my response is... well, Series 6 feels like the show in crisis, and I think the result is, yes, a series that when it shoots hits incredibly well and when it misses really swings and faceplants. The show was in crisis then, with Moffat behind, producers being forced to resign before they were sacked for secretly employing partners in minor roles and flying them abroad for filming abroad on the BBC's dime, etc etc. It's more interesting than Series 7, though, which feels fairly safe and bland to me - though

Series 5 is less ambitious in the sense that it sticks to RTD's formula, but it's also ambitious on a script-to-script level and the level to which it reboots everything is astonishing. Generally, though, I'd say Smith was vastly underserved during his era and when the dust settles a little more we'll see people begin to realize that Moffat's era really only finds its feet and identity fully and as firmly as RTD's once Capaldi and Gomez arrive. There are lots of interesting, best-ever ideas in Smith's era, but there's always something holding it back.

In this sense I think the general consumer reception of Smith > Capaldi in terms of viewing figures etc etc will reverse over time as fans and critics get time and distance from the eras, too. Mind, there were strengths to Smith's era that played to that audience expansion - it's airy, light and free, whereas Capaldi's has more substance, I think, but is harder to chew through as a result. Certainly I think a lot of Smith's tenure (but not Smith's performance, nor those of his co-stars - they're excellent) isn't aging as well as Tennant's already.
 
Rewatching the Smith era has been a proper eye-opener- I love a lot of what Smith's doing from moment to moment, and the 11/Amy/Rory team is top-notch, but the overall direction of the Smith era is kind of a mess. Not even necessarily in a bad sense; even pretty good episodes like Amy's Choice are guilty of breathtakingly mishandled tone shifts and inconsistent characterisation which wouldn't have passed muster under RTD or later Moffat. A pregnant Amy commits suicide by driving into a wall, a playground full of children are vaporised, multiple elderly people are assaulted, the Doctor cracks gags about self-harm... other episodes have been that dark, but Amy's Choice doesn't even seem to realise that it's presenting a bunch of really horrifying concepts, dream or otherwise.

It's about control of tone and mood- RTD was a master at controlling it, and Moffat got better at it, but the early Moffat era was really bad at it, and I'd argue that this was a big reason why the series 6 arc ended up collapsing in on itself. Standalone episodes like The Doctor's Wife and The Girl Who Waited can do their own thing, but the episodes that rely upon each other just fall apart.


In other news, Zoe Ball has apparently confirmed Walsh's casting on her Radio 2 show.
 

Blader

Member
It's about control of tone and mood- RTD was a master at controlling it

Man this line had me so flabbergasted it took me a while just to figure out how to reply, haha.

Like, RTD definitely does nail the tone and mood of select scenes, and even whole episodes here and there. But a master?! If anything I'd say tone and mood were consistently his biggest weakness, as both writer and showrunner, across all five years.

In any event, tone and mood have nothing to do with why the Silence arc in S6 falls apart. That story doesn't work because it's just super convoluted. It hinges on plot points that either undermine themselves right from the start (the Doctor isn't really dying at Lake Silencio because the Doctor isn't really going to die ever!) or are unnecessarily shoehorned in (basically River's entire backstory, even if I think Let's Kill Hitler is an underrated, fun ep). Much like how the universe collapses on itself in The Wedding of River Song, the S6 arc collapses on itself because it's just too overloaded with stuff coming in from all directions. A similar problem emerges in The Time of the Doctor, but at least that's saved by its heart-wrenching final 15ish minutes.
 

Feffe

Member
I liked the RTD era, but I can't in good faith suggest a new viewer to start with Series 1. Lots of episodes, while generally good, had lots of embarassing elements, bad pacing, off characterization, pop-culture references (which isn't a problem per-se, but might annoy some people) and so on. I'm not saying RTD Who was bad, just that the show hadn't relly found itself in the earlier seasons.

To be fair, most of these problems disappeared with Series 4, but of course Series 5 is a better jumping point. It's hard for me to find something bad in S5: even Victory of the Dalek, while not a masterpiece, was easily watchable by everybody (something I can't say about the Slitheens, Fear Her, Lazarus or hell, even Rose -- a friend of mine started with Rose and found the burping trash can and the Mickey clone.. well... quite trash, and she's right).

I also really liked the story-arc of S5. The episodes were more interconnected: little by little you understood more about the whole "the universe is crack" thing, the exploding TARDIS and so on. However, you could still enjoy the episodes stand-alone and the Amy-Doctor(-Rory) dynamic was great.

So with Series 5 the baseline quality of show greatly increased and I think you average viewer will have no problem enjoying S5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and, hopefully, 11, 12, 13 and so on. Of course they will find some bad episodes, but nothing embarassing or off-putting.

Unfortunately something went wrong with S6. The story-arc was heavier and, to be fair, more interesting. But that was to the detrimental of the stand-alone episodes: it's hard to enjoy the Doctor and the Ponds having fun when, well, the Ponds know the Doctor is going to die or Amy has just lost her baby. With S5 every episode played a role for the finale, the story-arc of S6 was mostly made my Moffat episodes, some story-heavy parts attached at the end of other episodes and then fillers after fillers. Which is not how Doctor Who should work, I think.

S6 Moffat episodes themselves had some problems. While the opening and AGMGTW were excellent, Hitler and Wedding didn't really do what they were trying to do (mostly because Moffat procrastinated a bit too much). The emotional trauma of Amy losing Melody isn't really solved in Hitler and Wedding was a bit of a mess, trying to explain to whole Lake Silencio business but leaving more questions than answers and basically forcing the viewers to accept River as the Doctor's wife. The problems, again, were in the *execution*: I get what Moffat was trying to do and I like it, but he could have done it way better (and he knows it, "The Empty Hearse" offering multiple explanations of Sherlock's "death" is what Wedding should have done).

Anyway by the time of S7 I think Moffat had grown a bit tired of the whole Silence arc and he basically abbandoned it, which left me disappointed because I was really into it. Instead S7 offered a series of stand-alone episodes which... well, they weren't bad at all, but they were you standard Doctor Who episodes. Everything your average S7 episode did was already done better by other episodes in the past. The only episodes I really remember fondly were the Neil Cross' ones, which is a sign the show is in need of some new writers.

The Doctor-Ponds dynamic was good of course, but story-wise it had already told everything it could tell and the departure of Amy and Rory was totally a mess. This is the only occasion I "bemoan Moffat's perverse willingness to write time travel-based stories in a series based on the premise of time travel" because it really didn't make any sense and was far away from the feels of Rose and Donna's departure. The second half wasn't any better with Clara being a very generic companion.

Luckily the Smith era ended with Day and Time. Both of them have the great virtue of establishing Clara as the character I loved in S8 and S9. Day, of course, was a great celebration of the whole show and thematically the "episode 0" of the Capaldi era, with the whole "never cruel or cowardly" thing. Time was strongly connected thematically to that: it was the story of a good man, who even facing death didn't give up his values. I really liked them. (Of course, I also liked Time resolving the various loose ends from S5-6, although that wasn't really the focus of the episode)

With Capaldi Moffat really found the right alchemy between leaving the stand-alone episodes space to breath and a more complex story arc than "some random words mentioned in every episode". He really learned from his S6 mistakes. And he took some new writers aboard: Harness, Mathieson, Tregenna and Dollard (and, to a lesser extent, Cottrell-Boyce) wrote some classics and were very talented, I vastly prefered them to Chibnall or Thompson. The softer story-arc also gave Moffat the opportunity to write Listen, Heaven Sent and Extremis. Lots of Capaldi episodes also had a philosophical or political subtext which I really enjoyed.

So tl;dr:
- RTD era was not bad, but the show turned into "some episodes are bad, but it's always watchable" with Series 5.
- S6 was good but the story-arc didn't give the stand-alone episodes enough room to breath and Moffat fucked the execution of the second half.
- S7 was good but totally unambitious.
- Moffat really learned from his mistakes during the Smith era, to the beneficial of the Capaldi era.
- The Capaldi era brought the show some amazing writers.
 
Perhaps tone and mood were the wrong words to use- I might go for "identity" instead, in that case.

RTD's Who could certainly be guilty of bathos and of fluctuations in tone, but it never, ever forgot what it was- a big, mainstream, family-friendly show that was not content unless it was grabbing every floating viewer possible. Everyone on that run of the show from RTD on down, knew exactly what the show that they were making was (give or take a few early, Boak-related misfires), which I don't think you can even slightly say about early Moffat. Much of Smith's era is caught between a desire to catch as many people's attention as possible ("The Doctor's dead! A movie every week! Let's Kill Hitler!") and to indulge in concepts and plots which were a little more off-putting to the general audience. I like a lot of Smith's era, but it feels like there's a constant tension between the Doctor Who Moffat thinks he should make, and the Doctor Who he actually wants to make. That's what sinks series 6- he wants a big, complicated arc plot while still trying to keep the series fast and frenetic, and the two impulses clash horribly- it might have worked had it been simplified, and it might have worked had Moffat taken more episodes and screen time to properly flesh it all out, but you can't fundamentally have both.

The Capaldi era, by contrast, deliberately went darker and chillier than the rest of new Who- even the relatively audience-friendly series 10 wasn't as splashy or attention-grabbing as anything pre-Capaldi. Commercially this was probably a really bad idea, but the episodes were made with a more coherent eye, and I think the era hangs together far better than the Smith one does.
 

Pagusas

Elden Member
I liked the RTD era, but I can't in good faith suggest a new viewer to start with Series 1. Lots of episodes, while generally good, had lots of embarassing elements, bad pacing, off characterization, pop-culture references (which isn't a problem per-se, but might annoy some people) and so on. I'm not saying RTD Who was bad, just that the show hadn't relly found itself in the earlier seasons.

To be fair, most of these problems disappeared with Series 4, but of course Series 5 is a better jumping point. It's hard for me to find something bad in S5: even Victory of the Dalek, while not a masterpiece, was easily watchable by everybody (something I can't say about the Slitheens, Fear Her, Lazarus or hell, even Rose -- a friend of mine started with Rose and found the burping trash can and the Mickey clone.. well... quite trash, and she's right).

I also really liked the story-arc of S5. The episodes were more interconnected: little by little you understood more about the whole "the universe is crack" thing, the exploding TARDIS and so on. However, you could still enjoy the episodes stand-alone and the Amy-Doctor(-Rory) dynamic was great.

So with Series 5 the baseline quality of show greatly increased and I think you average viewer will have no problem enjoying S5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and, hopefully, 11, 12, 13 and so on. Of course they will find some bad episodes, but nothing embarassing or off-putting.

Unfortunately something went wrong with S6. The story-arc was heavier and, to be fair, more interesting. But that was to the detrimental of the stand-alone episodes: it's hard to enjoy the Doctor and the Ponds having fun when, well, the Ponds know the Doctor is going to die or Amy has just lost her baby. With S5 every episode played a role for the finale, the story-arc of S6 was mostly made my Moffat episodes, some story-heavy parts attached at the end of other episodes and then fillers after fillers. Which is not how Doctor Who should work, I think.

S6 Moffat episodes themselves had some problems. While the opening and AGMGTW were excellent, Hitler and Wedding didn't really do what they were trying to do (mostly because Moffat procrastinated a bit too much). The emotional trauma of Amy losing Melody isn't really solved in Hitler and Wedding was a bit of a mess, trying to explain to whole Lake Silencio business but leaving more questions than answers and basically forcing the viewers to accept River as the Doctor's wife. The problems, again, were in the *execution*: I get what Moffat was trying to do and I like it, but he could have done it way better (and he knows it, "The Empty Hearse" offering multiple explanations of Sherlock's "death" is what Wedding should have done).

Anyway by the time of S7 I think Moffat had grown a bit tired of the whole Silence arc and he basically abbandoned it, which left me disappointed because I was really into it. Instead S7 offered a series of stand-alone episodes which... well, they weren't bad at all, but they were you standard Doctor Who episodes. Everything your average S7 episode did was already done better by other episodes in the past. The only episodes I really remember fondly were the Neil Cross' ones, which is a sign the show is in need of some new writers.

The Doctor-Ponds dynamic was good of course, but story-wise it had already told everything it could tell and the departure of Amy and Rory was totally a mess. This is the only occasion I "bemoan Moffat's perverse willingness to write time travel-based stories in a series based on the premise of time travel" because it really didn't make any sense and was far away from the feels of Rose and Donna's departure. The second half wasn't any better with Clara being a very generic companion.

Luckily the Smith era ended with Day and Time. Both of them have the great virtue of establishing Clara as the character I loved in S8 and S9. Day, of course, was a great celebration of the whole show and thematically the "episode 0" of the Capaldi era, with the whole "never cruel or cowardly" thing. Time was strongly connected thematically to that: it was the story of a good man, who even facing death didn't give up his values. I really liked them. (Of course, I also liked Time resolving the various loose ends from S5-6, although that wasn't really the focus of the episode)

With Capaldi Moffat really found the right alchemy between leaving the stand-alone episodes space to breath and a more complex story arc than "some random words mentioned in every episode". He really learned from his S6 mistakes. And he took some new writers aboard: Harness, Mathieson, Tregenna and Dollard (and, to a lesser extent, Cottrell-Boyce) wrote some classics and were very talented, I vastly prefered them to Chibnall or Thompson. The softer story-arc also gave Moffat the opportunity to write Listen, Heaven Sent and Extremis. Lots of Capaldi episodes also had a philosophical or political subtext which I really enjoyed.

So tl;dr:
- RTD era was not bad, but the show turned into "some episodes are bad, but it's always watchable" with Series 5.
- S6 was good but the story-arc didn't give the stand-alone episodes enough room to breath and Moffat fucked the execution of the second half.
- S7 was good but totally unambitious.
- Moffat really learned from his mistakes during the Smith era, to the beneficial of the Capaldi era.
- The Capaldi era brought the show some amazing writers.

I cant agree with this at alll. You are suggesting new viewers start with Matt Smith Doctor, the worst of the modern doctors. By doing this you miss all the insanely good Series 3 and 4 episodes, like Blink, The Family of Blood, Grid Lock, The Sound of Drums, Turn Left, Midnight, The Library 2 Parter, Stolen Earth 2 Parter, Waters of Mars and Journey's End, not to mention 3 really great Christmas Specials.

Like what the hell. Your basically just throwing out all the best of modern Doctor who to dump people into Matt Smith era.

If I were to start anyone off on Doctor Who now it would be with Blink. The ultimate introduction episode. It would get them into Tennant and show the doctor as a well acted, well rounded character with tons of emotion.

The whole impact of the 50th would also be lost if you didnt start people with the 10th.
 
I cant agree with this at alll. You are suggesting new viewers start with Matt Smith Doctor, the worst of the modern doctors. By doing this you miss all the insanely good Series 3 and 4 episodes, like Blink, The Family of Blood, Grid Lock, The Sound of Drums, Turn Left, Midnight, The Library 2 Parter, Stolen Earth 2 Parter, Waters of Mars and Journey's End, not to mention 3 really great Christmas Specials.

Like what the hell. Your basically just throwing out all the best of modern Doctor who to dump people into Matt Smith era.

If I were to start anyone off on Doctor Who now it would be with Blink. The ultimate introduction episode. It would get them into Tennant and show the doctor as a well acted, well rounded character with tons of emotion.

The whole impact of the 50th would also be lost if you didnt start people with the 10th.

I've never understood the sentiment of starting with Blink. Like, it's almost (intentionally) anti-Doctor Who. It's like getting someone into Mario by having them play Yoshi's Island.

The reason it was/is so special and unique is because it totally breaks the conventions of the show and makes a story about one character that we never meet again. It's amazing, don't get me wrong, but as an introduction to a program that 99% of the rest of the time is about two characters who maybe appear for all over 5 minutes in the episode seems like a weird decision.

I think if you want to give someone a taste dip them in with something that follows the basic structure of a typical episode. Fires of Pompeii, Vampires of Venice, Unquiet Dead. Then go for a couple of high quality two parters - Impossible Planet/Satan Pit, Empty Child/Doctor Dances, Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone. Then see which era/Doctor/companion they enjoy and take it from there. It's always seemed weird that people prescribe that new viewers start from S1/5/8 when the whole point of Doctor Who is finding the episode or era that fits you.
 

Blader

Member
I've never understood the sentiment of starting with Blink. Like, it's almost (intentionally) anti-Doctor Who. It's like getting someone into Mario by having them play Yoshi's Island.
People recommend Blink precisely because it's so light on Doctor Who-isms. It's a nice way to get your feet just a little wet with minimal weird stuff and aliens that are real and tactile (everyone has seen those statues before) as opposed to going all in with Daleks and police boxes and bad CGI creatures right from the start.
 
I started with the 50th, and went straight to season 1.

"Rose" is a fine intro with the caveat that it's low budget, if people care about that.
 

Apzu

Member
I only started watching Doctor Who because it was right there on Netflix and I decided to give it a try even though I hand't heard much about it and I still think that overall season 1 is actually quite good in presenting the series to new audiences. Rose is a nice way to introduce the doctor and the alien threats and it's followed by a story set in the future and in space with the End of the World. Then I think you can jump to Dalek, which is a nice episode introducing one of the most remarkable foes and go forward to Father's day, which sets the idea that time traveling has consequences. Empty Child/Doctor Dances is a nice 2 parter that shows that not all stories are handled in only one episode, also it's a much better "story set in the past" than The Unquiet Dead. Finally with the last episode of the season you are introduced to the idea of regenerations.

But maybe that's just me, just like I don't like the idea of introducing people to Doctor Who beginning with Matt Smith, because those were the seasons I most disliked. The only reason I kept watching Doctor Who even though I really didn't like season 5 and 6 was thanks to all the previous 4 season and because I was binge watching it. I only started liking him as the Doctor in season 7 and I'm still not sure why. I have to rewatch Smith's era to understand better what i disliked so much about it. Was it the change in the doctor's character, was it only because of the Ponds (i really don't like Amy, that's the only thing I'm sure of), was it the convoluted story-telling (those cracks were boring and River Song backstory was not that interesting) or was it the change from RTD to Moffat? I don't know, I just know that i liked every single one of the other Doctors from the get go and I'm hoping that will also happen with Whittaker.

If you need to watch Doctor Who at a high watermark to get into it, it's probably not for you.
Yeah, I agree with this.
 
I get why people say Blink since its a great ep but I don't agree its a good starter ep for newbies.

If that was my first taste of the show, I'd feel like it was a bait and switch. "Remember that really cool character you got invested in, Sally Sparrow? Yeah, well you never see her again and instead the show is about those two zany side characters."

If it was set up so that it was a companion's introduction and Sally joined the TARDIS at the end, then it would be a good starter ep.

Any first ep of a Doctor seems a good place to start.
If Rose is too dated then Christmas Invasion or 11th Hour or Deep Breath. Maybe even The Pilot.

/deja vu
 

Feffe

Member
Don't get me wrong, you can start with Series 1. I did, and I felt in love with the show. But the earlier seasons are not for everybody, the show really understood its tone and what it could do with its budget with Series 4.

Series 5 is a much safer jumping point. I usually suggest to watch S5-6, get hooked, then watch the best episodes of S1-4.
 

Apzu

Member
I'm not saying season 1 is perfect, but in a way it's easier to jump into the series from there as there's no backstory you need to know. If you start in S2, you already start with Rose being the companion and the relationship she already has with the Doctor and also er family. S3 is a bit better in this aspect, as you would be introduced to a brand new companion with Martha, but then there's all the "I want to forget Rose" going on that might make you feel like you're losing something. S4 would probably be the best season to start watching in RTD era if not S1, but then I think you would get spoiled starting with the best companion so far :p
 
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