Sargon is one of those YouTube "rational skeptics" in that he calls himself a centrist or "classical liberal" but is actually very right wing and seldom criticises far right groups, often instead endorsing them like he did with Le Pen. Contra was just highlighting the fact that most of these people call themselves centrists but are clearly biased towards the right.
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"Decrypting the Alt-Right: How to Recognize a Fascist" - by ContraPoints
- Thread starter Farks!
- Start date
Sargon is one of those YouTube "rational skeptics" in that he calls himself a centrist or "classical liberal" but is actually very right wing and seldom criticises far right groups, often instead endorsing them like he did with Le Pen. Contra was just highlighting the fact that most of these people call themselves centrists but are clearly biased towards the right.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Don't agree with everything - have never agreed with the no-platforming principle, and likely never will, think much of the bile toward centrists and liberals is incredibly misplaced and too quickly conflates naivety and ignorance with those labels, and much of it does come across as paranoiacally framing normal discourse as being all a part of a grand fascist plan, which she is at least honest about - but as a primer for alt-right strategy, it's aight.
Aaron Strife
Banned
What people ignore is that in any democracy there is a natural push/pull on ideas and parties, and if one party co-opts fascist and Nazi ideology (as Trump and the GOP has) it doesn't matter how good your argument is, enough people will think after eight years of Democratic control it's time for a change.
Clinton absolutely had a better argument than Trump, anyone claiming otherwise is rationalizing. Just like how the Jews' "don't kill us" argument was morally superior to Hitler's "let's kill the Jews" argument, that doesn't mean they won. Depending on people's better angels to put them on the side of logic and reason is woefully naive.
"Centrism" doesn't mean a whole lot, especially on NeoGAF where it's basically anything that's not far-left and used as a derogatory term. Most people aren't in the middlepoint of most or all of their positions on the political spectrum. When people are talking about "moderates" they're usually talking about the sub total of average or median political opinion. There are few people who actually embody those medians.
It's like the polls that show there's 10–30% of the population of any given country that believes in some crazy or heinous shit. The reality is that while there is ideological overlap in belief systems (not a fan of gays? You're more likely to be religiously and politically conservative) it's not the same 10–30% for each and every issue.
Contra really isnt for no-platform at all but just that if you choose to bring them on your show, actually put the effort in to argue against them and not just give them a microphone to spout there beliefs unchallenged, something for example Dave Rubin does.
The challenge for me is - I can't percieve of a situation in my life where I'll need to parse coded hand gestures to suss out fascists or white nationalists. And the obvious worry of false positives. Can someone give me an example of a situation where this might become valuable to me?
Wrestlemania
Banned
I had a colleague who wore an othala rune pin on his coat for a while. Didnt know what it was at the time and while I knew he had some pretty shady views, it took a while to work out that he was more involved in white supremacist shit than I expected and eventually came to realise what the othala rune was. Would have been quicker if Id have been more up to speed with their bullshit nods and winks to each other.
Nikodemos
Member
Trump constantly throwing White Power signs during his speech is one. Basically, look at public figures' gestures.
I had to look it up, but yeah, that makes sense - I don't think I've ever seen that rune before. I can see this as being a valuable instance - I imagine you got some distance from that colleague as quick as possible - or I might have even gone to HR with that.
KernelPanic
Member
Fantastic video. Scary that I've seen all those techniques out in the open since Cheeto got elected.
As for not giving them a platform, video is a good reminder of what they stand for and how many lives will be affected if they have their way. Also any benefit of the doubt you give them will not be returned.
As for not giving them a platform, video is a good reminder of what they stand for and how many lives will be affected if they have their way. Also any benefit of the doubt you give them will not be returned.
There are fewer true "centrists" than let on. Most of them aren't very politically engaged. If you meet a politically active centrist, chances are that they're just a stock Democrat or Republican who doesn't like labels.
That's why centrists are dangerous, because you can hide all sorts of crazy or evil ideas under the veneer of being "above the fray." A centrist Democrat or a centrist Republican is fine, but an "independent" centrist could well be anything.
GoldenCrow
Member
Man, that pissed me off.
Last night I was going out to eat with my friends and everyone was being as asshole about letting me take a left turn on a busy road. Some kind soul finally flashed her lights and let me go and I gave her the okay symbol and as soon as I pulled in to the parking lot, I realized that I have to check that shit because some people are going to consider that shit a sign of white supremacy.
Fucking shit man. I'm going to keep doing it because don't no one tell me what I can or can't do to thank someone but the fact that I even had to consider that for more than a second soured my mood immediately.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yeah don't worry about that. It's the emoji anyway not the hand symbol
plus innocuous stuff like that when the context clearly shows you aren't promoting fascist stuff are a non-issue. They don't own innocuous symbols and even if they start being identified with those, they'll move on to something else later anyway.Messofanego
Banned
Just got reminded of Bill Maher.
Man fuck Bill Maher
Aaron Strife
Banned
"I'm concerned about young girls' well-being"Just got reminded of Bill Maher.
(supports pedophiles)
Fucking disingenuous twat. And fuck Bill Maher.
Fagtrannistan sounds like a lovely place tbh
Changing the name doesn't make it not San Francisco. Great place to visit, but a little costly to live there.
Thanks OP for introducing me to this youtuber. I'd almost thought YT had been taken over by the alt-right.
I hate that I actually liked him at one point. Fuck him.Just got reminded of Bill Maher.
SecretSphere
Member
Weird foolproof way. Groups like PETA and Antifa are also largely based on conflict and violence and can't sustain itself without it. And I don't mean that in a 'both sides!' way, but social groups that want societal change because of opression or perceived opression, be it rightfully so or completely bonkers, have the tendency to use conflict and violence to further their cause. That doesn't mean it's fascist. The very thing they have conflict with, or use violence against, can be fascism. So, unless I misinterpreted you, conflict and violence doesn't equate fascism and certainly isn't a foolproof way to recognize it.
Tye The Czar
Member
Sharing the hell out of this.
Don't just Like & Share. Also Discuss.
Don't just Like & Share. Also Discuss.
KernelPanic
Member
I think she's specifically discussing the alt-right Richard Spencer types from Charlottesville which are of course both. There's other videos that talk about fascism in general but this is specific to what's going on in the US.
The 👌Is weird but while it may have started as some joke they have used it, partially since they want liberals to be paranoid and look stupid calling it out. . On it's own I wouldn't label someone using it a white supremacist but there usually other signs which she gets into.
She covers it very well on how to watch for stuff like this without getting too paranoid.
It's a good reminder of how evil they are, while trying to disguise themselves as an alternate point of view.
I mean Spencer has talked about "ethnic cleansing" but download any violence or extermination which is bullshit.
Abstrusity
Member
Pretty much. Fascism isn't limited to the color of your skin. For instance, ISIS and the myriad terrorist groups in the middle east are generally fascists, too. The idea is that the end result is complete power, supremacy of your group over all others. Anything haram, degenerate, or what-have-you, has no place in a fascist society, and when you write the rules, anything you do not like is haram, degenerate, or what-have-you.
In the US, there are very, very few fascists that aren't white, and it is in the context of the US that she makes these arguments, thus white supremacy being the focus.
Tye The Czar
Member
Just look at the dislike ratio on that video, clearly, YouTube is still Alt-right land.
Though I think they're past their peak, which would be around 6 months to a year ago. And now their community is slightly more fragmented and is also receiving increasing scrutiny following recent events.
Messofanego
Banned
People even here fall for the diversion tactics about focusing on antifa which is a strategy by fascists to shift news topics away from them.
I'm sure we've come across people here on GAF who have said this exact pedantry thing from the video indicating their denial of current Nazis:
"The German National Socialist Party hasn't existed since 1945."
Or they'll be adamant about calling them neo-nazis, not nazis. It's a cute diversion tactic but thankfully no one falls for it.
On secret symbols used because they have multiple meanings, it can fool GAFers like the Iron Cross:
Most recently, some were tripping themselves over not knowing that Proud Boys ("Western chauvinists", there's that coded language again) in the Texas floods are a Nazi movement founded by Canadian Gavin McInnes (Rebel Media, former Vice co-founder), and they employ the OK symbol.
People can be fooled into being fearful of antifa, so they suddenly care really deeply about inanimate property and "looters" of supplies, so that fear plays into fascists arming themselves and wanting to stop looting in floods.
https://twitter.com/afainatl/status/903309366601895936
Proud Boys: "anti looting patrol" and the OK symbol
The Proud Boys (who also most recently were at an Indigenous protest) wear Fred Perry polo t-shirts, which were then disavowed by the company for the racist connection.
More dirt on Gavin McInnes:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/alt-right-star-says-israelis-have-whiny-paranoid-fear-of-nazis/
Gavin McInnes on his trip to Israel: "...that assume we're going to listen to all this shit we get fed. That's having the reverse effect on me: I'm becoming anti-Semitic...And I felt myself defending the super-far-right Nazis, just because I was sick of so much brainwashing. And I felt like going, ‘Well, they never said it didn't happen. What they're saying is that it was much less than six million and that they starved to death and they weren't gassed.' I'm not saying it wasn't gassing. Please don't take that clip out of context, but that's what the far-right nuts are saying....There's been a lot of genocides. Mao killed 70 million... Stalin, with the Bolsheviks, killed 30 million. But the Russians don't talk about that. They don't even necessarily see it as a horrible thing. I think it was ten million Ukrainians who were killed. That was by Jews. That was by Marxist, Stalinist, left-wing, commie, socialist Jews...Wasn't the Treaty of Versailles, wasn't that disproportionately influenced by Jewish intellectuals?...Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro-Holocaust."
Of course, since Gavin likes to be employed and earn money, he's had to backtrack his statements about defending Nazis among other things.
He hasn't backtracked on his connection with Proud Boys, though. I wonder if there are people here who are fans of Rebel Media/Gavin.
I'm sure we've come across people here on GAF who have said this exact pedantry thing from the video indicating their denial of current Nazis:
"The German National Socialist Party hasn't existed since 1945."
Or they'll be adamant about calling them neo-nazis, not nazis. It's a cute diversion tactic but thankfully no one falls for it.
On secret symbols used because they have multiple meanings, it can fool GAFers like the Iron Cross:
That was funny. I also have something funny.
This is the iron cross from 1813, 120 years before the Nazis used it.
This is the one from WWI
This is the one the Nazis used
and this is the one the German Luftwaffe uses right now
Now this is the one Milo wore
So you don't see it very well, but do you see the white part on the top, the one of the Nazis did not have that. That is the white crown, so that is either the one of WW1 or 1813 or 1824 or something during this time period; so he picked the wrong one to make a Nazi statement. So this either makes him a huge troll and everybody falls for it or just a huge dumb ass.
Most recently, some were tripping themselves over not knowing that Proud Boys ("Western chauvinists", there's that coded language again) in the Texas floods are a Nazi movement founded by Canadian Gavin McInnes (Rebel Media, former Vice co-founder), and they employ the OK symbol.
People can be fooled into being fearful of antifa, so they suddenly care really deeply about inanimate property and "looters" of supplies, so that fear plays into fascists arming themselves and wanting to stop looting in floods.
https://twitter.com/afainatl/status/903309366601895936
Proud Boys: "anti looting patrol" and the OK symbol
The Proud Boys (who also most recently were at an Indigenous protest) wear Fred Perry polo t-shirts, which were then disavowed by the company for the racist connection.
More dirt on Gavin McInnes:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/alt-right-star-says-israelis-have-whiny-paranoid-fear-of-nazis/
Gavin McInnes on his trip to Israel: "...that assume we're going to listen to all this shit we get fed. That's having the reverse effect on me: I'm becoming anti-Semitic...And I felt myself defending the super-far-right Nazis, just because I was sick of so much brainwashing. And I felt like going, ‘Well, they never said it didn't happen. What they're saying is that it was much less than six million and that they starved to death and they weren't gassed.' I'm not saying it wasn't gassing. Please don't take that clip out of context, but that's what the far-right nuts are saying....There's been a lot of genocides. Mao killed 70 million... Stalin, with the Bolsheviks, killed 30 million. But the Russians don't talk about that. They don't even necessarily see it as a horrible thing. I think it was ten million Ukrainians who were killed. That was by Jews. That was by Marxist, Stalinist, left-wing, commie, socialist Jews...Wasn't the Treaty of Versailles, wasn't that disproportionately influenced by Jewish intellectuals?...Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro-Holocaust."
Of course, since Gavin likes to be employed and earn money, he's had to backtrack his statements about defending Nazis among other things.
He hasn't backtracked on his connection with Proud Boys, though. I wonder if there are people here who are fans of Rebel Media/Gavin.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
^ Apparently McIness denounced the Charlottesville rally, so I'll, uh, give him that?
Messofanego
Banned
The alt-right calls him "alt lite" because he's not extreme enough, but that whole Holocaust denial/Israel was the most recent time where white supremacists like David Duke among many others loved his moment in the sun.
Speaking of Gavin McInnes. Did anyone watch this diversity is not strength video by McInnes? It was disgusting and extremely insulting, and it just shows comedic standard is really low in the Alt-Right circle if this passes as comedy.
Tye The Czar
Member
When your views can't be backed up with evidence, your jokes are gonna come from the bottom of the barrel.
EDIT: Like what OP's video said, their goal is not to have people argue or disprove them. All they're trying to do is get exposure. As long as they get their word out, they don't care.
As Karl Rove said, people will believe a lie if you keep repeating it.
Our key to winning against them is ignoring what they spew and taking away their platform ourselves.
A few weeks ago, I made a FB post about Charlottesville criticizing the White Supremacists and one of my "friends" (more like an acquaintance I knew from high school) bogged me down in like an asinine 20 minute argument that I was wrong to call these guys Nazis because the Nazi Party was defeated in WWII.
Thelonelykoopa
Member
I had some Nazi Bikers in my Gas Station today; It was fucking terrifying.
KernelPanic
Member
It's a deflection.
I just tell such people that they're picking up where the Nazi Party left off. And there's really no difference in ideology anyway.
Nazis didn't broadcast their intent right away either.
Rumblebones
Banned
Fantastic video. Presents information in a clear, concise and digestible way.
What I find most disturbing is the new "Nazi were socialists" narrative. I've had to do some serious research to be able to counter this argument effectively because it shifts the blame to the left and thus deflects association from the far-right. If your honest about your beliefs you should own your demons
The left can be come communism, the right can become facists.
The left can be come communism, the right can become facists.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Alright. Subscribed.
What a fantastic video from a channel I hadn't heard of until now. Subscribing and sharing.
Pass it on anyway. Don't let your fear of the reaction make you a passive contributor to the silencing of important voices.
Pass it on anyway. Don't let your fear of the reaction make you a passive contributor to the silencing of important voices.
PataHikari
Banned
"And North Korea's a Democratic Republic"
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
yo that video was fucking lit
subbed
subbed
Tye The Czar
Member
Remember that the Alt Right doesn't care about how people react, their goal is to get their message out there.
We can do the same.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Anyone who says "nazis were socialists" with a straight face is too stupid to even deserve a debunking, tbh.
Yeah pretty much. The nazis were as socialist as North Korea is democratic, essentially.
Messofanego
Banned
Pass it on still, even if they have transphobia maybe they will nevertheless watch it and take some new points in. You know, get them out of that "echo chamber". One tiny correction, it's transgender, not transgendered.
The word transgender never needs the extraneous ed at the end of the word. In fact, such a construction is grammatically incorrect. Only verbs can be transformed into participles by adding -ed to the end of the word, and transgender is an adjective, not a verb. - GLAAD
Well, for me it's important to know these things because I have kids, and kids love YouTube. Which is full of fascists pretending to be something than what they are in order to recruit. So it's useful because I can explain to my children why so and so is not a great person to be getting political views from.
Journeywalker
Member
I don't think we should ignore them. We cannot let de facto public forums like Youtube, Twitter, and Facebook become safe spaces for bias, irrational thinking, dehumanization, and ignorance. We need to be human examples of compassionate liberalism that contradict the stereotypes played up by Fox News and conservative media.
I've come around to condemning antifa because it's de facto anarchist and anti-capitalist. Their use of instigation, weapons, and bodily fluids is not something I can support. But I like their idea of, "Where they go, we go."
I agree with people saying we cant ignore them because if we do we will let there ideology spread and go unchallenged but at the same time we have to be careful how we interact with them.
I would say this is ok, Roland invites Richard Spencer on but doesnt allow Spencer's point go unchallenged and does a great job of shutting him down.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yr5BQS79H7g
As someone in this thread earlier pointed out Bill Maher and Milo, that wasn't a good interaction because it allowed Milo to say shit unchallenged.
JonTron's debate with Destiny was also another good interaction because Destiny was able to show how clueless and uniformed JonTron and his viewpoints are.
I would say this is ok, Roland invites Richard Spencer on but doesnt allow Spencer's point go unchallenged and does a great job of shutting him down.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yr5BQS79H7g
As someone in this thread earlier pointed out Bill Maher and Milo, that wasn't a good interaction because it allowed Milo to say shit unchallenged.
JonTron's debate with Destiny was also another good interaction because Destiny was able to show how clueless and uniformed JonTron and his viewpoints are.
Did I comment ITT? Too lazy to look...
I love Contra. I didn't know about her before this thread, so thank you OP.<3
Forgive me if I overlooked you mention it, but isn't that "ok" hand gesture those fuckers are making a known symbol?
I'd also like to say that while you know how I feel about you personally I really love the occasional post you make, like this one.
I love Contra. I didn't know about her before this thread, so thank you OP.<3
People even here fall for the diversion tactics about focusing on antifa which is a strategy by fascists to shift news topics away from them.
I'm sure we've come across people here on GAF who have said this exact pedantry thing from the video indicating their denial of current Nazis:
"The German National Socialist Party hasn't existed since 1945."
Or they'll be adamant about calling them neo-nazis, not nazis. It's a cute diversion tactic but thankfully no one falls for it.
On secret symbols used because they have multiple meanings, it can fool GAFers like the Iron Cross:
Most recently, some were tripping themselves over not knowing that Proud Boys ("Western chauvinists", there's that coded language again) in the Texas floods are a Nazi movement founded by Canadian Gavin McInnes (Rebel Media, former Vice co-founder), and they employ the OK symbol.
People can be fooled into being fearful of antifa, so they suddenly care really deeply about inanimate property and "looters" of supplies, so that fear plays into fascists arming themselves and wanting to stop looting in floods.
https://twitter.com/afainatl/status/903309366601895936
Proud Boys: "anti looting patrol" and the OK symbol
The Proud Boys (who also most recently were at an Indigenous protest) wear Fred Perry polo t-shirts, which were then disavowed by the company for the racist connection.
More dirt on Gavin McInnes:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/alt-right-star-says-israelis-have-whiny-paranoid-fear-of-nazis/
Gavin McInnes on his trip to Israel: "...that assume we're going to listen to all this shit we get fed. That's having the reverse effect on me: I'm becoming anti-Semitic...And I felt myself defending the super-far-right Nazis, just because I was sick of so much brainwashing. And I felt like going, ‘Well, they never said it didn't happen. What they're saying is that it was much less than six million and that they starved to death and they weren't gassed.' I'm not saying it wasn't gassing. Please don't take that clip out of context, but that's what the far-right nuts are saying....There's been a lot of genocides. Mao killed 70 million... Stalin, with the Bolsheviks, killed 30 million. But the Russians don't talk about that. They don't even necessarily see it as a horrible thing. I think it was ten million Ukrainians who were killed. That was by Jews. That was by Marxist, Stalinist, left-wing, commie, socialist Jews...Wasn't the Treaty of Versailles, wasn't that disproportionately influenced by Jewish intellectuals?...Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro-Holocaust."
Of course, since Gavin likes to be employed and earn money, he's had to backtrack his statements about defending Nazis among other things.
He hasn't backtracked on his connection with Proud Boys, though. I wonder if there are people here who are fans of Rebel Media/Gavin.
Forgive me if I overlooked you mention it, but isn't that "ok" hand gesture those fuckers are making a known symbol?
I'd also like to say that while you know how I feel about you personally I really love the occasional post you make, like this one.