KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Are there any classes/builds that struggle with solo content?
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Is everybody aware how tremendously good Path of Exile is these days?
- Thread starter Imp the Dimp
- Start date
KittenMaster
Member
All seven classes can be made to work, it is just harder to utilize some concepts than others when playing a class.
As far as bad builds that struggle, I think that's only limited to poorly made builds or builds that utilize a bad skill (Elemental Hit is most commonly said to be the worst skill gem for example).
As far as bad builds that struggle, I think that's only limited to poorly made builds or builds that utilize a bad skill (Elemental Hit is most commonly said to be the worst skill gem for example).
Badly built ones.
Some builds are easier to level with than other but as things get harder, you will notice where a build starts to suffer. Especially when mapping comes into play. Some builds just won't be able to clear some types of maps.
Depends on if you just want to play basic solo content, or do maps/pvp etc.
The biggest complaint I have with the game is the graphics settings, my PC is pretty old and not being able to turn down particle effects or weather effects kills my performance. I still haven't reached the endgame, but I'm not sure how it will hold up when there's a ton of enemies swarming and casting skills.
KittenMaster
Member
I think most people will say that a good build can fight Shaper, but I disagree with that barometer as far as general gameplay though.
IMO a good-to-great build will be able to play endgame maps, a highly optimized build will be able to get all of the Ascendancy points, a top meta build will do optional superboss content, and a bad build will struggle with the 10 story acts (which there are very few builds that will)
So you won't know until you reach the end then?, I like that!
KittenMaster
Member
Actually I take back what I said, a highly optimized build will be able to get all of the ascendancy points without needing to deactivate the boss' buffs or wait for a day that has easy buffs to overcome, but even a less optimized build should be able to do it given enough luck or tries.
There are and will be plenty of build guides. Some are very specific to unique items, or just general class guides but with tweaks depending on playstyle/amount of currency you want to invest.
Sometimes builds break because patches come out that change things.
Cleavage window swordswoman on one side (the mana),the bondage slave (left of the health and endless corpse walls when the hubs are barely populated (with npcs) do give the game a weird, cheesy feel.
Wolf Akela
Member
I'm curious how badly you have to intentionally build in order to have something that basically can't do some maps / optional bosses?
People have beaten Uber Atziri with joke builds like Eldritch Battery + Chaos Innoc. To those not familiar, Energy Shield is a shield that gradually regenerates after taking no damage for a short time. Eldritch Battery makes you spend ES before Mana when you cast skills. Chaos Innoc sets your HP to 1 in exchange for complete immunity to a type of damage (that normally penetrated ES).
This means you have 1 HP and any ES you have is essentially worthless because otherwise you'd need to wait a short time before each spell cast. You die in one hit from anything!
People have beaten Uber Atziri with joke builds like Eldritch Battery + Chaos Innoc. To those not familiar, Energy Shield is a shield that gradually regenerates after taking no damage for a short time. Eldritch Battery makes you spend ES before Mana when you cast skills. Chaos Innoc sets your HP to 1 in exchange for complete immunity to a type of damage (that normally penetrated ES).
This means you have 1 HP and any ES you have is essentially worthless because otherwise you'd need to wait a short time before each spell cast. You die in one hit from anything!
I'm not sure you could build something that couldn't do any maps, it's just a matter of how far it could go. When I first started the game I didn't look at any builds or guides and my tornado shot archer started to struggle around what they now call tier 8 maps.
Yes, an aurabot. But I don't think you were meaning that.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
About the struggle of builds in later levels; are you able to change them up while leveling, or are you sort of at a dead end?
bati
Member
I think a build with a solid core concept but bad stat ratios (not enough mana regen, or a crit build without enough crit chance, etc) would choke somewhere around tier 6, if not sooner on some bosses. The game gives you more than enough rope to hang yourself and this is actually a trap that many players who follow build guides to the letter often fall into - they skimp on rare equipment pieces like jewelry that are often expensive and provide crucial stats (high accuracy, crit chance, crit multi, etc) and they end up with stats that are a good 10-20% below the threshold that the build creator had in mind and so the build can feel shit as a result.
If you want good evidence of this just have a look at some wander builds - probably one of the most currency intensive builds right now - and believe me, you need to invest a A LOT before a wander starts to feel good. Meanwhile people who invested the bare minimum whine about how they can't even take down t2-t4 bosses in a reasonable time frame.
And this is if you're not actively trying to gimp your build, so I'd say it's very very easy to intentionally make a build that's not capable of doing maps.
If you do all the quests you should get 24 passive respec points from the act quest rewards so that should be enough to at least change what you think is wrong by the end. If you feel your spec is even more broke than that you will have to trade for Orbs of Regret to get more passive respec points.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Both my friends played without a build and couldn't even beat the game on normal difficulty. The potential to completely screw up a character is rather high.
Damn that seems crazy to me, but I am vet of these kinds of games so maybe I shouldn't be surprised.
If you just play and don't think ahead at all on what you want to aim for, then sure, you can screw yourself over pretty hard. But to do so badly you can't even finish normal seems odd. All you need to do is get one 4 linked item and have you attack skill linked with some good support gems and you are basically good to go.
If you don't follow a guide, the best thing to do is search for the stats you want in the skill tree (there's a search box up top that highlights all nodes with the stat). See where the big clusters of those stats are and work towards them. Then you also have bigger nodes spread out on the tree that can dramatically effect the build, like make it so you can't critical but also never miss and a bunch of other stuff. Some of them can make your build so much better.
Then you should also decide on how you are planning to survive. Have an evasion/dodge build, go all in on energy shield or lots of armor and HP. Then find the big clusters with those stats and work towards them as well.
As long as you have the slightest plan on what you want, it's actually kinda hard to make something completely awful with the tools the game gives you.
And when it comes to uniques, they are very rarely anything you should be looking for until somewhat late game. Most of the time a decently rolled rare is the best option for most item slots. Uniques can then enable you to play in a certain way. There are of course some pretty good uniques for leveling, but that's more for when you roll a second character and want to get through very quickly to end-game.
Herbspiceguy
Member
I hit lvl 73 a few weeks ago on my first PoE char and I'm starting to lose interest.
Maybe I'm missing something, but right now doing 'maps' feels uneventful and boring. But I'm also not sure what's a correct way of progressing through the tiers. The game doesn't really explain.
In terms of flexibility and different playstyles I feel PoE doesn't hold a candle to D3. Combat in general feels much more limited/rigid and I'm not a huge fan of D3.
Maybe I'm missing something, but right now doing 'maps' feels uneventful and boring. But I'm also not sure what's a correct way of progressing through the tiers. The game doesn't really explain.
In terms of flexibility and different playstyles I feel PoE doesn't hold a candle to D3. Combat in general feels much more limited/rigid and I'm not a huge fan of D3.
There are far more builds that will go late in to the game then I found viable for the 4 man meta of D3. We also aren't required to have heal and utility supports to carry ourselves deep that alone shuts down your flexible argument.
Look up efficient map guides cause if you don't alter your maps right there is difference between a good alchemy and Vaal orb roll then just running white or magic maps with not enough mods.
If you have more direct questions just ask someone will help out here or other places.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
It's kind of daunting how a lot of builds seem to be built around specific items. What if those items don't drop? What if I'm not rushing through the game to get those items? What if I don't even like those items?
Redshirt
Banned
If you don't like the items, try something else, I guess.
Otherwise, PoE has currency and trading, so it's pretty easy to get what you want.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
A lot of builds can be modified to not require specific uniques. For example, take Righteous Fire. The traditional method of making a RF build is to use Rise of the Phoenix which gives a large bonus to Max Fire Resistance thus helping to reduce the drawback of RF. However, if you don't want to use RotP (or are doing solo self-found so you can't guarantee the drop), there are a number of other options you could do instead:
1 - Use Mind over Matter so you need less life regen (and make up the difference with mana regen).
2 - Use a different that gives general max elemental resist like Saffel's Frame.
3 - Stack an extra-large amount of life regen.
4 - Mitigate the fire damage with ascendancy bonuses & pantheon bonuses.
5 - Use leech and/or flasks
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Thanks. I guess it's not such a big deal.
Liliana Eileen
Member
Anyone here following Milky's RF totem build? How viable is it for T15s and Shaper?
I_D
Member
Diablo 2 is my most-played game of all time.
Compared to D2, PoE isn't all that special.
Compared to Titan Quest, Torchlight 1/2, and especially Diablo 3, on the other hand, PoE is absolutely fantastic.
It has an insane amount of content to explore. I'd argue it's possibly the best free-to-play game ever released. It's definitely the best f2p ARPG.
Compared to D2, PoE isn't all that special.
Compared to Titan Quest, Torchlight 1/2, and especially Diablo 3, on the other hand, PoE is absolutely fantastic.
It has an insane amount of content to explore. I'd argue it's possibly the best free-to-play game ever released. It's definitely the best f2p ARPG.
GenericBadGuy
Member
I was enjoying myself playing the game a great deal, and got a couple characters to 70 and about to start mapping. Unfortunately the character I liked more, invested in more, and prefer to play cannot clear Merc lab. I can zoom right through any content my level, but can't survive Izaro (I'm resist capped and have life on my gear). It was such a momentum and mood killer.
Now I'm hooked on XCOM2 and I think it may be the kiss of death until next league.
Now I'm hooked on XCOM2 and I think it may be the kiss of death until next league.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah... I think I might be done. Maybe I'll give it another 10 ~ 15 levels to see for sure, but I played Diablo 3 last night for the first time in a long time on a whim and because I wanted to check out the Necromancer class, and holy shit does every single thing about the game just feel a ton better.
The gameplay is really the only thing D3 does better than POE IMO. Coming from somebody with 2k hours in that game. It's good for a short while, but the end game is just not there anymore. You brick wall so fast in D3 now, whereas you have an almost infinite amount of content hunting in Poe.
D3's endgame is basically "see how high the number goes in greater rifts". And that gets old real fast
Vincent Grayson
Member
Yeah, but since "the gameplay" is kind of central to playing the game, that's a problem. If PoE had D3's combat gameplay, there'd be no question which one was better.
But when the decision is between great gameplay, and tolerable gameplay, I'll pick great every time, even if "endgame" isn't amazing, because frankly, by the time I've leveled every class to cap and fucked around with Rifts and Adventure mode and all that, I've dumped hundreds of hours in and can move on to a new game.
Endgame, IMO, only matters if you're the kind of person who picks a single game and just plays that.
bati
Member
Please explain to me what makes D3's gameplay better than PoE's? I have hundreds of hours in the former and probably thousands in the latter and I'd pick PoE for gameplay every single time and I've been playing since Nemesis, when gameplay was significantly less smooth and slower than it is today.
I'm legitimately curious what people actually mean with 'gameplay' in this instance. It can't be responsiveness or speed (which are closely related) because you can reach ridiculous attack/cast and movement speeds in PoE that far surpass D3's. So what is it? Zoom level/FoV? Animations? Transitions between them? Please enlighten me.
(also specify if you're talking about xbox or PC, I only play PC so it's entirely possible that D3 shits on PoE on consoles but I have no way of knowing that)
I'm legitimately curious what people actually mean with 'gameplay' in this instance. It can't be responsiveness or speed (which are closely related) because you can reach ridiculous attack/cast and movement speeds in PoE that far surpass D3's. So what is it? Zoom level/FoV? Animations? Transitions between them? Please enlighten me.
(also specify if you're talking about xbox or PC, I only play PC so it's entirely possible that D3 shits on PoE on consoles but I have no way of knowing that)
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I wish I could tell you in concrete terms, but it really is all about "feel," responsiveness and feedback. A ton of small things that add up to make one thing enjoyable and another not. It's all completely subjective, of course. I'm sure some people hate how Diablo III plays and love the feel of Path of Exile. There's no right answer here.
I play both on PC at 4K resolution if that matters.
I can't describe it super well, but every time I try PoE, the combat feels bland. I've tried a few different classes and it just feels bare. Meanwhile, with D3, the attacks had oomph to them, it oddly felt more satisfying as a whole.
That said, it's awesome how successful PoE is. The combat is my only big gripe with it.
Wolf Akela
Member
I started a new melee char, which is something I've never played for years. Honestly, I am shocked at how fun it is now.
Maybe because I already knew the game, but the game feels so fast paced. I carried two Quicksilver Flasks and a Leap Slam. I just zipped across the map and massacred mobs and leap slamming between priority targets. Double Strike as a simple starter skill felt really good with a lot of oomph.
Maybe because I already knew the game, but the game feels so fast paced. I carried two Quicksilver Flasks and a Leap Slam. I just zipped across the map and massacred mobs and leap slamming between priority targets. Double Strike as a simple starter skill felt really good with a lot of oomph.
Redshirt
Banned
I love PoE. But lmao no.
Night Angel
Member
Early game PoE combat is definitely less satisfying than D3 (and that's coming from someone who prefers PoE). Unless you're a veteran who knows/can afford to gear up in a tabula and 2 elreon rings to melt the early game with frost blades (princess swords OP) or sunder with 3-4 quicksilver flasks, it's a pretty slow and unimpressive start.
The sheer amount of build diversity and satisfying skills in the end game, though, far outshines anything D3 has to offer. If you can make it to A4 and lvl 35+, the game's combat really hits its stride. Completing the first labyrinth can also be build enabling
This league it took me about 10 hours to get to that point on my first character. My alts each took 1 hour per act due to the aforementioned tabula and assorted levelling gear. I have 6 characters over lvl 83 this league, with my highest at 93.
The sheer amount of build diversity and satisfying skills in the end game, though, far outshines anything D3 has to offer. If you can make it to A4 and lvl 35+, the game's combat really hits its stride. Completing the first labyrinth can also be build enabling
This league it took me about 10 hours to get to that point on my first character. My alts each took 1 hour per act due to the aforementioned tabula and assorted levelling gear. I have 6 characters over lvl 83 this league, with my highest at 93.
My experience is much different act 8 level 62. Combat still does not feel satisfying. My big attack does not seem to have weight behind it or stopping power so I feel weak very frustrating. Kind of stuck until rng changes since trade is a disaster on the Xbox one. Just trying to grind it out but it is hard at times. I do hope loot gets better after act 10. Maybe then can do full build and combat will feel better.
It's the feel of the combat and how enemies react to your attacks. Like when Black Hole a mob, they get sucked into it and it feels super good to watch. Then you have Seven Sided Strike which makes it look you have impact on every hit while you hit enemies and send them flying across the map. You equip that with Exploding Palm on hit and it's explosion city.
These things are easy to attain and experience where as getting close to this on PoE requires high end game play. And even then you don't have the rag doll effects of enemies flying all over or nice looking visuals and effects on the attacks.
Most of what you're describing is stuff like animation or visual effects or sound design, which, while cool, aren't gameplay elements. An actual gameplay thing would be what you're mentioning in the second paragraph which is (correct me if I'm misconstruing) D3 being way quicker to let you have a realized build.
bati
Member
3 min lab runs, literally any raider attack build that uses multistrike, wander builds that offscreen everything as you move across the map, etc.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I disagree completely, but that's OK.
If visual and audio effects and feedback didn't matter, then we might as well be playing spreadsheets or games with Dwarf Fortress-like graphics.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Should I be hoovering up all these scrolls/whetstones/orbs for later, or can I use them freely? Particularly the ones that upgrade a regular item into a rare.
Wolf Akela
Member
Feel free to use Wisdom/Portal scrolls. They drop all time.
The one that upgrades white to blue (Alterations?) are fairly common too. I always use them on flasks, plus the consumable that adds more mods to blue items.
I only use Alchemy on a good base (good slots / link / color).
Whetstone/Scraps... I only use them if I'm trying to roll an item. Higher quality (caps at 20%) makes it easier to roll max links / slots. But remember, the item level still determines the max number of slots, so don't waste Jeweler's Orbs trying to roll 6 links on a Lv1 chest piece.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Thanks. Do these things become more abundant at higher levels, or is it pretty consistent from beginning to end?
But that cold crit shattering build with gore herald of ice tho 👌Enable screen shake always for maximum fun factor.
But yes, of course in terms of hit feedback, particle effects and general feel D3 is gonna be better. Blizzard dwarfs GGG as a company and in terms of the money invested into the game. That uliana 6 exploding palm seven sided strike feel is oh so good 👍 but it's a shame that most builds simply revolve around use sets that grant 16000% more multiplier to one particular skill.
And people criticise PoE for one skill gameplay
They're both great and I enjoy both but it's hard to compare D3 and PoE as they so different in terms of fundamental philosophies.
He is right though. In the ultra late game, you will be able play builds much faster than D3. And no you don't need headhunter to do that...like at all.