bitbydeath
Member
Different time, people were less sensitive about these things back then.
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Stephen King's IT |OT| He thrusts his fists and then he posts (Unmarked spoilers)
- Thread starter Kyleripman
- Start date
Different time, people were less sensitive about these things back then.
MagnaderAlpha
Member
Not JUST comparing it to the old mini-series, but yeah, the mini-series DID show more, and the novel, EVERY MORE than that. Your comparing it to the old film is, in turn, comparing it to the novel as well. Bev was never a damsel in distress in the mini-series, nor in the novel. Kinda a thing I REALLY didn't like in this movie. There was a point in the novel where
the Losers are going to do the Smoke Hole, and they want Bev to stay outside as the guys went down in the clubhouse. She called them out on it and when they drew matches, the "outside force" made it so that ALL the matches weren't burnt, proving that Bev was an equal to the other Losers and had the right to go into the Smoke Hole with the others.
Stiler
Member
It's such bull too, in the novel/mini series
Bev does not realize that Ben wrote that poem, she thinks Bill wrote it and has a thing for him. When they come back as adults that's when her and Ben reconnect and she realizes it was him, not Bill, that wrote it.
The movie completely messes up that entire point and how it set Ben and Bev up. By having her already know and STILL choosing Bill over Ben it is going to make it look like Ben loses his weight and Bev is like "Hey oh!"
The movie completely messes up that entire point and how it set Ben and Bev up. By having her already know and STILL choosing Bill over Ben it is going to make it look like Ben loses his weight and Bev is like "Hey oh!"
bitbydeath
Member
I agree overall, but when they meet up again Bill is married so either way she loses her chance with him, and she'll be a desperate 40 year old, heh love story ruined but outcome is the same.
UnemployedVillain
Member
That was some bullshit. What was even the point of her
finding out who wrote the poem then? A smirk and then her going back to gawking over Bill because he's the main character
Also, I'm confused. The title says unmarked spoilers, yet everyone still marks them >_>
More_Badass
Member
No, it doesn't happen in the book, not even to the person that Pennywise does that to
That's some asinine shit if I've ever heard any so yeah, being high off your ass will help with that.
I can see a section in part 2 where Victor and Belch go into the sewers to Back up Henry, find him alive (maybe he landed in a heap of trash?) but being with IT, which had fallen to whether Henry was. The two are then killed by an angry IT outright like in the books.
Pilgrimzero
Member
Yeah this bugged me too. With her knowing about the poem etc
The whole bit where she floats in the sewers and made into a damsel in distress didn't make much sense to me. I don't see why would Pennywise drag Bev to the sewers and not kill her; from what we've seen in the movie, Pennywise feeds on the victims before sending them to float (Goergie and his arm, Betty and her whole lower half, Stan and his face.)
It's not like he needed to lure the boys to the sewers, as he can get to them whenever and wherever.
and yet, they end up having sex anyway.
There's no need for it in the book, as Bev was never grabbed by Pennywise.
JaseMath
Member
Couple of things that bothered me were already mentioned here, but my biggest irk is the defeat of Pennywise.
The power of imagination was never mentioned once in leading to his death. In the book, the belief in imaginative magic (ie. the silver bullet, battery acid, etc.) play a big part in why the Losers overcome their fear in the first place. I feel like that's not explored enough in the movie, only to the extent of, "Don't be scared—it's not real!"
Other than that, I really liked it. I hope there's a directors cut.
The power of imagination was never mentioned once in leading to his death. In the book, the belief in imaginative magic (ie. the silver bullet, battery acid, etc.) play a big part in why the Losers overcome their fear in the first place. I feel like that's not explored enough in the movie, only to the extent of, "Don't be scared—it's not real!"
Other than that, I really liked it. I hope there's a directors cut.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
One scene I don't see people talking about that has seemed to stick with me the most was the first group encounter at the well house(?).
Once Beverly plants that spike through ITs face, and the "mask" gets all distorted and it's thrashing about, eventually cutting NKotB,... just that look and eery feel as it slinks away and escapes in that "we're not done" kind of way... *shivers*.
Once Beverly plants that spike through ITs face, and the "mask" gets all distorted and it's thrashing about, eventually cutting NKotB,... just that look and eery feel as it slinks away and escapes in that "we're not done" kind of way... *shivers*.
shira
Member
Lul they can fuck off if that's what the sequel is.
I'm not sure if I really buy that people weren't sensitive to child gangbangs in the late 80s, but since it seemed to be so forgotten and overlooked over the years, maybe so? I think it was more a case where the miniseries kind of overwrote the source material in most people's minds.
As far as what King was thinking: probably drugs
Robot Pants
Member
Yo what the fuck is this?
It comes into play when Bill hurts Pennywise with an unloaded cattle gun. Also, Bill hurt Pennywise without even hitting him with the bat. It seemed that just the confident intention did the damage.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
New Kid on the Block, lol. I don't remember all their names.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
First I completely agree with what you are saying but let me try and explain it better.
The last movie that "Scared"me was probably the Descent. The claustrophobia, the creature reveal, the hunt it all made me extremely uncomfortable and had me actually jumping out of my seat. After it was over though I was good. I enjoyed it as a truly good scary movie.
IT didn't make me jump but it unnerved me. When I got home I normally have my closet door open, my bathroom door open and my sliding door open....Yeah nope. Closed. Closed. Closed. I walked out to the parking garage this morning that was completely empty and had just been sprayed down top to bottom with a hose and still had a slight echo of water dripping from the ceiling....NOPE. I was driving with the sun on my face on the 55 HWY in OC and remembered the face IT has when he comes out of the water with Georgie as a puppet....NOPE
LOL ahhh man that got a good laugh out of me
bitbydeath
Member
Books can also get away with a lot more.
Game of Thrones for example,
Daenerys is 13 when she gets forced into marriage.
TyphoonStruggle
Member
You're wrong. Beverly is not a damsel in distress in this move.
The kids say "It got Beverly." I took it to mean "It killed Beverly." If they were going to save Beverly, they would say "It has Beverly," which is never said.
Therefore, they think she's dead and they don't go to save her. They go off because they think IT will come for them one-by-one.
Just a small point about that spoiler...
In the novel, Ben does tell Bev that he wrote the poem. On the day they go down into the sewers to fight it, Beverly gets chased into the barrens by Henry. Ben is the only one in the clubhouse when she gets there. They hide quietly while Belch stomps around above them.
Bev asks him about it then, and he confesses. As adults, she actually remembers that just before she goes and fucks Bill, so yeah,
Novel Bev does kinda settle for Ben...
Bev asks him about it then, and he confesses. As adults, she actually remembers that just before she goes and fucks Bill, so yeah,
Novel Bev does kinda settle for Ben...
I do think that the group breakup, just to lead to Bev being a damsel in distress, was unnecessary.
But the imagery in the move was intense. Skarsgard does a wonderful job with Pennywise. I am certainly curious to see where episode 2 ends up going.
JaseMath
Member
I got that, but it shouldn't have been such blink-and-you'll-miss-it thing. It should've been a primary theme of the movie.
The book explicitly tells the reader that Bev knows Ben wrote it. Ben goes so far as to it admit it when they're in the sewers and Bowers is chasing them.
Stiler
Member
Marking spoilers for the book/mini series since some people in here have only seen this movie so it's courteous to mark those spoilers so people don't have the second half spoiled from people that already know what is going to happen later on.
Ah, I must have been thinking of the mini series then. I still think the mini series handled it better then in that case.
Dion Blaster
Member
Yeah, while this aspect of the movie was handled a bit clumsily I think people are forgetting how it played out in the source material.
MagnaderAlpha
Member
It should've been more obvious. Instead of leaving a burn mark like scar on his forehead that quickly vanished, it should've left a large hole with an exit wound bursting out of the back of his head. They should've come to the realization that imagination was the key. I think this movie banks MORE on the notion that the less afraid you are, the more you can hurt it, though. That is different than the book,
where the kids were all afraid, but their youthful imagination helped them battle It. There were many points they came to the realization that their "belief" was key to this, such as Richie's sneezing powder, the use of silver and Eddie's inhaler. The whole "This is battery acid" bit in the mini-series happened in the book against It in the form of the Crawling Eye. The power of a child's imagination was a potent weapon against It.
There is also the bit that It is limited to It's forms and the weaknesses of those forms. Because It would turn into a werewolf, it would become weak against silver. It would also sometimes materialize depending on the first thing one of the kids blurted out. In Neibolt Street, when it was coming up to get the kids, it was described as being "shapeless" until Richie said it was the Teenage Werewolf, then it solidified into that form, like it was forced to take that guise. It was almost similar of a description when Patrick Hockstetter saw It coming towards him after being nearly sucked dry by the flying leeches. It is described that It looked like a man whose face was melting like wax, would briefly form into a face only to melt again and form into another face, just to keep melting. I hear people say this was because Patrick didn't fear anything other than the leeches, so as far as human-like forms was concerned, It couldn't take the same of a man or monster like it did with the mummy, werewolf and such, so it was basically while looking like a man-like figure, had a running, shapeless face.
There is also the bit that It is limited to It's forms and the weaknesses of those forms. Because It would turn into a werewolf, it would become weak against silver. It would also sometimes materialize depending on the first thing one of the kids blurted out. In Neibolt Street, when it was coming up to get the kids, it was described as being "shapeless" until Richie said it was the Teenage Werewolf, then it solidified into that form, like it was forced to take that guise. It was almost similar of a description when Patrick Hockstetter saw It coming towards him after being nearly sucked dry by the flying leeches. It is described that It looked like a man whose face was melting like wax, would briefly form into a face only to melt again and form into another face, just to keep melting. I hear people say this was because Patrick didn't fear anything other than the leeches, so as far as human-like forms was concerned, It couldn't take the same of a man or monster like it did with the mummy, werewolf and such, so it was basically while looking like a man-like figure, had a running, shapeless face.
It was basically a different take on what was in the book. In the movie, it was all about facing your fears. As long as you have no fear, Pennywise has no power over you. In the book (and mini-series), it dealt more with belief and how when you are a child, you tap into an "unseen world" where you believe things adults don't, and as you grow older, you loose that belief and turn cynical. It was the reason why Pennywise needed Henry Bowers, because he could get them if they "believe, half-believe, or don't believe at all".
AuthenticM
Member
just saw it
I thought it was amazing. Some frightening moments, as well as some fantastic dialogue. Great cursing too.
I thought it was amazing. Some frightening moments, as well as some fantastic dialogue. Great cursing too.
Kabuki Waq
Member
Bill better be bald in part 2!
Brainfreeze
Member
The bolded is ridiculous to me. The characters in the mini series were more or less caricatures. While I think Stan and Mike were underdeveloped compared to the rest of the cast, I think every kid in this one saw a hell of a lot more development than any character from the mini-series. I think the depth of the child characters (and how perfectly they're portrayed by the actors, who really can't get enough praise) is possibly this movie's strongest aspect.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
easily the best part of the movie
That moment just cements how great the humor in this film was.
elrechazado
Banned
I disagree. One example for me was bill. Instead of a self blaming guilt wracked boy shunned by his parents, we have a sad kid in denial. There is no powerful moment in the storm where he tells that fucker they're going to kill It. No moment where he asks his friends to help him because it killed Georgie, and their mission must be to kill it. Sure, they band together to kill it later in the movie, but there's no arc to bill. Why they made the "Georgie is missing and bill is in denial" change I'll never know. I wanted bill to take the reigns and be their strength like he does in the book many times. The rock fight fails for the same reason. Bill advancing on the for, leading them, and MOST important claiming the barrens for the losers was super powerful in the books. This bill captured absolutely none of that for me. Mouthing platitudes about staying together before running off alone didn't do it for me.
Really liked the movie, but was disappointed in character development.
More_Badass
Member
Was just reminded that Muschietti is directing the pilot for Hulus Locke & Key
I guess people can get more excited about that now
I guess people can get more excited about that now
bitbydeath
Member
This part happened in the movie.
Barrens scenes will hopefully be in part 2, along with the missing theatre scene
DecoReturns
Member
Saw IT.
Thought it was okay. I don't get scared watching horror movies so my complaints are not necessarily problems with the film. Just my taste.
Loved the Cinematography. Some great acting from the kids too, which I was pleasantly surprised. Too many jump scares (which was too be expected, just would've like it more if scenes could "build" longer, then go a jump scared or something.
I actually didn't like Pennywise all that much. kinda wish he had more...Color on him. The antique look makes sense, but he didn't look scary(could be just me actually).
I should read the book again honestly. It's been a long while. Might appreciate the film more.
Thought it was okay. I don't get scared watching horror movies so my complaints are not necessarily problems with the film. Just my taste.
Loved the Cinematography. Some great acting from the kids too, which I was pleasantly surprised. Too many jump scares (which was too be expected, just would've like it more if scenes could "build" longer, then go a jump scared or something.
I actually didn't like Pennywise all that much. kinda wish he had more...Color on him. The antique look makes sense, but he didn't look scary(could be just me actually).
I should read the book again honestly. It's been a long while. Might appreciate the film more.
Conkersbadfurday
Member
This bothers me too. It's strange, the more I think about this movie, the more problems I have with it. And they're all to do with it as an adaptation and not as a movie, which maybe isn't fair to IT.
I dunno.
Saw the moviie tonight in fakeMax and really loved it.
Most of the changes were good and overall the movie respected the book though it wasn't slaving to recreate everything in it.
The development of some of the kids suffered a bit to concentrate on Billy/ Georgie and Bev, which kinda irks me a tad for my 1 beef with the film.
It seems they are pushing for a Billy/ Bev relatoonship (which remained an unspoken crush in the book), which sort of renders the whole poem thing (heavily featured in the Billy/ Bev/ Ben triangle, both in the book and the film) ... Useless?
I guess we'll see how they treat the Adult chapter... But between the rescue (why put a DiD scene that wasn't in the original?) initiated by Billy (ending with a Prince wake up kiss from Ben?), where Billy ends up with the big hug and a romantic kiss at the end... I have concerns.
I hope it's just a red herring.
Ah, just one other regret: I would have prefered a sling to a slaughter gun, but that is minor.
PS: Were some of the clown masks Richie was seeing in the Clown closet based on Tim Curry's Pennywise?
A few seemed awfully close... I thought.
Most of the changes were good and overall the movie respected the book though it wasn't slaving to recreate everything in it.
The development of some of the kids suffered a bit to concentrate on Billy/ Georgie and Bev, which kinda irks me a tad for my 1 beef with the film.
It seems they are pushing for a Billy/ Bev relatoonship (which remained an unspoken crush in the book), which sort of renders the whole poem thing (heavily featured in the Billy/ Bev/ Ben triangle, both in the book and the film) ... Useless?
I guess we'll see how they treat the Adult chapter... But between the rescue (why put a DiD scene that wasn't in the original?) initiated by Billy (ending with a Prince wake up kiss from Ben?), where Billy ends up with the big hug and a romantic kiss at the end... I have concerns.
I hope it's just a red herring.
Ah, just one other regret: I would have prefered a sling to a slaughter gun, but that is minor.
PS: Were some of the clown masks Richie was seeing in the Clown closet based on Tim Curry's Pennywise?
A few seemed awfully close... I thought.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Just finished a second viewing. I thought Pennywise's final moments absolutely sucked first time watching. I couldn't even remember his last word that well. Fear. This time, I realized that wasn't a random word he tossed out...he was finishing his sentence after a long pause:
He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts. He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the........fear
Her getting kidnapped is still awful.
He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts. He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the........fear
I really liked. It fits with the idea of the novel of the power of belief. Well...the movie too! Bill is able to hurt Pennywise with an empty bolt because he believes it will hurt him. Bev in the movie is shown having the song book from The Frog Prince above her keyboard, so the idea a kiss awakes her is pretty great. For me, anywho.
Her getting kidnapped is still awful.
Lord of Castamere
Member
Yeah, the imagination stuff was really weird. They needed to let that breath, say what happened, and use it again. As someone who didn't read books/watch mini series, I honestly didn't know what happened. Thought at first that Pennywise was mocking the empty gun by falling down, then later found out that he actually got hurt. Maybe that happened in an earlier script and this is a leftover nod to the books, idk.
Vincent Alexander
Member
It's a very watered down version, the power of belief, from the books. The way the movie handles it makes Pennywise too weak for my liking. I won't go into detail, mostly because I am on my phone and can't detail too much. HOWEVER. I did notice on my second viewing that Bill hurt him way more than I thought first time. I thought Pennywise just got his paint/forehead scuffed, but on second viewing I realized you see blood from the back of Pennywise's head. He blew a hole in him and messed him up good. I liked at that point Pennywise gets pissed and jumps Bill. He wants blood.
Lost it when it happened. Most 80's moment.
Brainfreeze
Member
Does anyone have a copy to the original script that's been mentioned in here a few times, from the previous director? I'm interested in reading that.
What did he mean by this?
Member
I feel like the cattle gun wound was Pennywise's only real one (hence why his head was peeling at the end). I'm truly interested in seeing what Pennywise's realization at the end ("....Fear") amounts to in Part 2.
No shade to the book, but hopefully it is drastically different. Heck people already complaining about not enough kills and Pennywise looking weak in Part 1, that aint changing with Part 2 unless they go nuts. In terms of the adult characters, this Part 1 is so standalone (Bev knowing Ben wrote the poem, Bill accepting Georgie's death, Eddie finding out about the gazebos, etc.). that all that shit needs to change anyways so change everything else too
Put Pennywise on offense not defense
No shade to the book, but hopefully it is drastically different. Heck people already complaining about not enough kills and Pennywise looking weak in Part 1, that aint changing with Part 2 unless they go nuts. In terms of the adult characters, this Part 1 is so standalone (Bev knowing Ben wrote the poem, Bill accepting Georgie's death, Eddie finding out about the gazebos, etc.). that all that shit needs to change anyways so change everything else too
Put Pennywise on offense not defense
Eh? The gun wasn't loaded.