Burning Justice
the superior princess
Where was it said that they're working on PS4 versions of Sen 1 and 2? I see a few people here discussing it, but I don't see a source...
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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Bebpo
- Start date
2ch supposedly leaked information from the Sen no Kiseki Magazine that goes on sale next Thursday. https://twitter.com/Gu4n/status/907604791345512449
Burning Justice
the superior princess
Oh, it's part of that leak. I see. Thanks.
I mean, it's been basically the same formula for about 6 games, just with a different shell. 3rd is the only real outlier.
I get that some people don't like a school setting, but nobody should pretend that it somehow dictates the formula when it's stayed pretty consistent for years.
If they set it there with the traveling aspect that I think seems cool, there's likely a reason for it that's important. The new one seems like it could be great cultural melding to bring in lots of new perspectives.
Novel Mike
Member
spoilers from the end of 3rd with Renne's backstory...
Jesus I figured it would be fucked up but a child prostitute that developed multiple personalities to deal with the trauma and then the abuse was so bad they were 'killed off' is pretty fucked up.
Also I'm assuming that was her actual parents at the end of the scene which I think are what the dolls she had in SC looked like.
So throughout the game both she and Joshua/Estelle mention Crossbell so I'm assuming this storyline continues on into Zero/Ao, hope Renne eventually comes around.
Also I'm assuming that was her actual parents at the end of the scene which I think are what the dolls she had in SC looked like.
So throughout the game both she and Joshua/Estelle mention Crossbell so I'm assuming this storyline continues on into Zero/Ao, hope Renne eventually comes around.
I think I'm done with Cold Steel. I survived 22 hours, up to the beginning of Chapter 4. It's just so bland and the writing is a massive step down from the Sky games (especially 3rd). It's just too difficult for me to forgive the elements of the series I don't like (slow story pacing, boring dungeons and sidequests) when I don't care about the characters or find them actively irritating
.
I'm hoping I connect more with the Crossbell games.
(Millium).
I'm hoping I connect more with the Crossbell games.
You know, you've said this before, but you're one of only two people in this thread, twitter, and reddit, that I've seen say "everyone would rather have a game centered around the old Class 7".
Everyone else is just waiting to see how the game can impress with the characters it has, old and new. I understand if you want the game to be the old Class 7 only, but I have heavy doubt that "everyone" feels that way. I think it is just largely your opinion.
FAKE EDIT: I just remembered you called the new class 7 "shitty characters", well if you've made up your mind that early....
Novel Mike
Member
Elaborate. What do you find bland about the writing in Cold Steel in comparison to the Sky games?
Whom do you have actively irritating outside of Millium and why do you find millium annoying?
I ask because I just played the Sky games and pretty much everything you complained about can be applied to the sky games as well, in some cases its worse.
Spoilers for FC/SC
Honestly if I didn't know the truth about Olivert ahead of time I'd find him extremely offensive, he is a super creeper and while its funny to see Vander drag him away or Estelle threaten to bash his face in hes extremely annoying when almost every word out of his mouth is literally him perving on one of the girls all the time.
I think the Sky games actually get a pass on a lot of the writing because none of the dialog is voiced, if you had to hear some of the crap Olivert says I don't think anyone would find his character appealing they'd find him just as annoying as the cast of the Sky games do.
I think the Sky games actually get a pass on a lot of the writing because none of the dialog is voiced, if you had to hear some of the crap Olivert says I don't think anyone would find his character appealing they'd find him just as annoying as the cast of the Sky games do.
I say this as someone who actively likes many elements of his character but ALL of the games have issues with unlikable characters and hit or miss writing, not just Cold Steel.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I still hate Olivier. That hasnt changed
Well, there's a big dialogue quality difference between the two series. I can't think of a single memorable line in Cold Steel (despite a good localization) yet FC, SC and 3rd are loaded with them (helped by the expressive character portraits). It leads to a general feeling of stagnation in the exchanges between characters, where they all sorta blur together in a cascade of politeness. Basically, I laughed often at the banter in the Sky trilogy but I'm bored when the characters converse in CS. I do wonder how much of that has to do with the transition to voice acting, which I mostly skip through anyway because I read faster.
I'm more forgiving of the issues in the Sky trilogy because it's a really solid cast. I ended up caring about the vast majority of them by the end of 3rd but even by the end of the first chapter of FC, I had grown attached to Estelle and Joshua. In CS, the only character I even vaguely like is Sara and she's a walking, talking trope. I don't really care about anyone in Class VII, which is a huge problem for me. Alisa probably comes the closest to being a third dimensional character at this point in the game but they're pairing her with Rean, who has all the charisma of a turnip.
I do agree that Olivert probably wouldn't work in Sky if he had been voice acted. Which is why they seem to have washed out most of those traits in CS, based on the scenes I've seen him in. He's just your average boring noble now.
As for Millium, I hate her type of character, the perky high-pitched squeaky anime girl. Maybe she would have been more tolerable without the voice acting but it was pretty much the last straw. Basically, I'm happy that other people are enjoying it but it's not really for me and how my tastes align.
Young Magus
Junior Member
I like this edit
Lol rekt
ShadowSoldier89
Member
there were no memorable lines really by the point you were at in FC either though...By chapter 4 in CS you at least have some quality chuckles from Rean <-> Sara conversations. CS is honestly funnier than Sky.
Here is a bunch of quality chuckles from my replay. Helps that Carrie Keranan's delivery is fantastic. Though Rean and NPCs manage to be pretty funny too. Sky on the other hand had Estelle, or if for some reason you thought Olivier was funny he was there too.
When it comes to memorable quotes CS 1 never really hit the point of something like
FC Spoiler
"Goodbye Estelle..."
"We're FAMILY Kevin!"
"So Let's Go, I'll take ALL of you on!"
Despite liking the Sky games more, I'm about even on the characters. Sara is the best character by far. Estelle and Joshua make the most compelling leads. Sara is amazing. Sky has stinkers like Olivier and Zane. Machias is pretty lame but his backstory is so gut wrenching that I can at least understand him. Sara is incredible. I mean all I'm really trying to say is Sara is the best character. I mean just look at this smug smile
I dont feel like any of these pics are spoilers other than some alt costumes...yell at me if you want.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Sara was great, by far the most enjoyable character in CS. And she had the ability to make nearly any other character better while in conversation with them.
Sara is one of my very favorites, but I think people can put a little too much value in characters ability to deliver a quip. Being funny isn't inherently more valuable than the CS kids being (mostly) decently polite to one another. As an admitted wannabe comedian myself, I get the preference, but it's not enough to be the differentiator between a good cast and a bad one. These things are facets.
Crafts > #Roasted ( XL - 100% Burn)
Crafts > #Roasted ( XL - 100% Burn)
The headpat count in Cold Steel is actually limited to only a few. It's Cold Steel II where Rean might headpat characters in the ground.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
Ries rarely ever delivered a quip and is still one of the greatest characters in the series.
Sara just happened to have smart funny quips as a defining character trait. She is also one of the most multilayered characters in the series.
I was also just honing in on one part of a post as an excuse to post screenshots and mention sara as the best.
I can only think of 2 in CS1. Chapter 4 and Chapter 6.
This. In it for Tio, Randy, Tita, and Agate. Holla!
No, I know. I don't even mean to single you out, but I think when you start looking at the writing in the series on a macro-level it's not very different from game to game. How the culture and politics of Zemuria are approached and represented is the same and the more dramatic character writing isn't much different. But when people think of just basic conversations in the games, they remember that they're more sassy in Sky (and they're REALLY sassy in FC in particular) and more polite in CS. I just think those aspects kinda get blown up into one bring great and the other being this huge dive.
It does hit the good spots. I also like my crime/mystery detectives, so Zero felt right at home.
Missed opportunity for solving locked room murders. Lloyd has the oneliners that go with it.
Novel Mike
Member
I agree although like I said before I think if the sky games were voiced people wouldn't react to those lines in the same way, some of it sounds pretty entertaining when you read it but a lot of it comes off fairly flat or in Oliver's case... really freaking creepy. Hell I complained about the Tita/Agate situation in 3rd already but oh god imagine that shit being voiced, ultra creepy.
Edit: Also at the very end of third, got all the doors done beside the final arena stuff which I'm not even sure I really care to do at this point since I've seen all the content and bonus scenes and I just kinda wanna finish the game and be done with it. 3rd has not held my attention like the rest of the series, even the revelations about Kevin haven't grabbed me like many of the events like FC/SC. I liked some of the bonus scenes but a lot of them fall flat or are merely teases for things that happen in future games. That final door was interesting enough but I was hoping to see more character development. Everyone gets a nice little moment sure but none of the other 10 characters outside of Rias/Kevin have any real arc. It's a shame because the game starts off so well and interesting meeting Tita's mother (who is hilarious) and I was looking forward to see her interactions with the rest of the cast but outside of Tita's door she basically doesn't exist. I just find that rather disappointing after so many interesting character arcs and development throughout FC/SC. Hell Renne has likely the biggest character 'arc' of any of the side characters in this game but even then you get a lot of backstory on her but she doesn't really seem to grow as a person or anything. It's entertaining to use her but I would have really liked to see real development of her character with all that backstory being revealed but its not in this game.
Also I see a lot of people like Rias and maybe something happens at the end of the game but so far shes just okay. I like her little quirks and her relationship to Kevin but when you consider that this is the first game shes been in she really could use more development time (which instead is largely spent on the huge cast of characters you get to play as) or have her own character arc and story that isn't directly linked to Kevin. I want to know more about her relationship to her sister and her past BEFORE Kevin came into the picture but instead all of the development centers around Kevin and shes just kinda pushed into a supporting role.
While i'd give the edge to the Sky trilogy when it comes to writing, humor and general expressiveness (the sprites really do make a difference), I don't think there's a substantial difference between both game series. It's also worth noting that Cold Steel has a god tier soundtrack in its corner, so i'd argue it has even more memorable lines.
trumps pretty much any line from the Sky trilogy. Both games have top class localization and enjoyable either way, so I don't think it's accurate to say that Cold Steel's dialogue reads as boring, especially not relative to other RPGs on the market.
On the NPC side, it isn't even a contest; CS thrashes Sky in literally every regard, lol. And Sky's NPCs are legendary.
I haven't thought about it, but yes, it's really reminiscent of Harry Potter. That first night when you get settled into your dorm room while talking to your classmates for the first time... it's a really great moment.
"I hope you know what you just signed up for because the bank of Rean has the HIGHEST interest rate in the continent"
On the NPC side, it isn't even a contest; CS thrashes Sky in literally every regard, lol. And Sky's NPCs are legendary.
I haven't thought about it, but yes, it's really reminiscent of Harry Potter. That first night when you get settled into your dorm room while talking to your classmates for the first time... it's a really great moment.
I don't think it was all that creepy in Japanese, though the localized English might be a different story. Olivier may be a creep, but he still had some of the best chats with Estelle in the Sky games.
As an aside, I think the Crossbell games deserve some praise for avoiding all that stuff. If we just ignore the harem dense protagonist junk with Lloyd, it's surprisingly very tame. For Zero anyway. Then they kind of went nuts with the intermission chapter in Ao. I think they did a good job with Michel, too.
Novel Mike
Member
Yeah but like I mentioned before he creeps and pervs on literally every girl in the game, including Estelle and while she might be good at threatening to beat his face in not everyone else is and it comes off as really scummy with his super creepy portrait.
Eh, I'll be honest with you: There isn't much to the criticism of whether the dialogue in Sky works better or not with voices because it was written under the assumption there would be none. Conversely, CS is written to account for voices and that's why things like a lot of Rean's interactions with Sara work so well. The added dimension of voice over makes their sarcasm much easier to convey, putting the onus on tone/delivery instead of just syntax/phrasing. Sky's writing is often more expressive and it fills the gap voices might have if the game were made five years later.
BassForever
Member
All the trails games have the same issues really, the difference is how well does a player connect with the party members in questions.
Both Sky and Cold Steel have a cast of fairly tropey characters
Both Sky and Cold Steel have very formulaic chapter structure
Both Sky and Cold Steel have very slow openings that takes 20-30 hours to build up the characters and world before things start to escalate
The only thing that changed is the framework and it seems for some people the moment cold steel had the framework of "school focused" they found exploring the world outside of the school slowly dealing with minor conflicts not very engaging. And of course on the flip side people who enjoy that school focus might find Sky's explore the world slowly dealing with minor conflicts not very engaging.
I'd say both have their positives and neither is inheriently better or worse then the other. Even saying "cs3 is back to school zzzz" is being very disingenuous as the way the player will interact with characters as professor Rean will be very different from how freshmen Rean did. Of course if you heard the word school and got upset there is nothing cs could have done to salvage that fact.
Both Sky and Cold Steel have a cast of fairly tropey characters
Both Sky and Cold Steel have very formulaic chapter structure
Both Sky and Cold Steel have very slow openings that takes 20-30 hours to build up the characters and world before things start to escalate
The only thing that changed is the framework and it seems for some people the moment cold steel had the framework of "school focused" they found exploring the world outside of the school slowly dealing with minor conflicts not very engaging. And of course on the flip side people who enjoy that school focus might find Sky's explore the world slowly dealing with minor conflicts not very engaging.
I'd say both have their positives and neither is inheriently better or worse then the other. Even saying "cs3 is back to school zzzz" is being very disingenuous as the way the player will interact with characters as professor Rean will be very different from how freshmen Rean did. Of course if you heard the word school and got upset there is nothing cs could have done to salvage that fact.
Why would we just ignore the bad stuff in Zero, but not in the others...?
Good post. Basically how I feel.
I guess it depends on whether you think a guy creeping on every character in the cast is equivalent to the MC being a dense harem protagonist. Figured I'd throw it out there, though.
Novel Mike
Member
Yeah I agree, honestly playing through the Sky games and seeing how many reused storylines and plot elements there are has been a bit discouraging.
I will say I think CS does the NPCs better because its much easier to keep up with the NPC's that matter and you want to learn about since they are located in Trista instead of the entire country. I had a hard time caring about many of the NPC's in FC/SC outside of more important ones because I'd see them only in a small section and then never again. I really liked the various characters of Rolent and really liked seeing how they changed between FC/SC but theres only a few in the other regions I ever really paid attention to.
CS highlights the students and staff of Thors extremely well but even the normal townsfolk are easy enough to keep up with and keep engaged in their stories. Such as the young couple that is very in love or the older couple that is going through marriage problems, not to mention all the kids and the various shop owners and what not. Being a centralized location for a vast majority of the game really does help many of these characters stand out, and when you DO end up going on the various towns outside of Trista the game does a pretty great job of guiding you towards the various NPC's that end up playing at least a minor role such as Machias' friend or Laura's fan club.
It's a feature of CS that I think a lot of people who hate on the school setting tend to overlook.
I'm all for criticizing both for their own reasons. I mean, it's not a competition or anything.
Man, I'm in it for everyone. I'm hype for every character. Even NPCs.
BassForever
Member
I will say this about fc/sc, the npc dialogue updates a lot more frequently in each chapter so you'll get several unique dialogues per npc during your 3 visits during the course of the two games. In cold steel while you do see that core set of trista npcs over the course of the saga, a lot of the local chapter npcs get very little dialogue by comparison. Both games take their respective structure and play to the strengths of how their stories are told to give the npcs life far better then most other rpgs.
Well, I'll admit that I'm being a little disingenuous by writing him off as a complete harem protagonist because romance isn't really a thing in the Crossbell games. It's just that the harem aspects of him are the worst part about his character. Everything else is fine.
Anyway, back to Zero, I think the game was very good about all that stuff. If you had to compare someone to Olivier in the Crossbell games, it'd be Randy but he doesn't take the creepiness factor to the level Olivier does. Not to say I hate Olivier or anything, since I still love the guy, but Randy's definitely the playboy character done right. Or done wrong since he never scores? Heh.
Ao, on the other hand, is definitely a mixed bag for me. Randy still stays legit though, so thank god for that.
BassForever
Member
The only reason every Kiseki game don't all have a generic harem lead (minus sky tc) is because someone had the courage to make the token tsundere love interest the lead in the main sky games.
I don't think Estelle falls into the tsundere archetype.
Josette isn't the protagonist tho
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Are people still not getting Olivier's act? It's refuge in audacity! Subtlety is dead in this cold heartless world.
Note also: labels disable Estelle. Estelle disables labelers with 6 foot length of hickory. Be warned.
Ahem.
Note also: labels disable Estelle. Estelle disables labelers with 6 foot length of hickory. Be warned.
Ahem.
Yep. Not many mainstream developers have the guts to put a female lead without any caveats in their big budget RPG. I'm talking RPGs with:
No optional genders
Not spinoff
No split protagonist's
No gimmicks
Estelle's still a one of a kind, and it bums me out we won't be getting more female protagonists of her caliber in the future. At the very least, i'm glad she was a thing.
The presentation and writing is what sells it. He's incredibly immature and indulges in his
temporary freedom
the fact that he genuinely falls in love with Schera and still keeps up his "antics" is extremely telling too. His off-screen proposal is still one of his best moments.
That feel where the main character being a douche to women is 100% recognized in universe as being douchey.
Olivier being a real man and choosing to end his life early due to
alcohol poisoning
We don't know we're never getting another Estelle. The evidence is mounting for Juna to be the lead in the back half of CS3 already. I think there's reason to have hope. The games are bound to certain expectations, but they're not selling at a level that another out-and-out female lead would just be out of the question. Or so I would think. The fanbase dirsbtvstrike me as so fickle and only interested in that surface level that another female lead would just tank sakes or something.
And Estelle, as good as she is, is certainly a standard that can be met writing-wise. She's one of a kind, but I think a big part of that is that they haven't even attempted to follow up on her with a similar character. That's very different from not being able to do it at all.
And Estelle, as good as she is, is certainly a standard that can be met writing-wise. She's one of a kind, but I think a big part of that is that they haven't even attempted to follow up on her with a similar character. That's very different from not being able to do it at all.
Hiding all this because it still speaks about the dynamics between characters. Spoilers for SC and a lil tidbit about 3rd.
I disagree it's "100% recognized" when it's not Estelle saying anything, which was my point. I only remember her noticeably being angry at that in the final chapters, when he started hanging around more with the group, by threatening him with The Staff. The mood between the characters in those conversations was different than when Olivier was the one saying stuff: Kevin was a stranger to her (though I don't remember how NPCs reacted to Olivier in the first hours of FC), and she was alone and still emotionally weak.
I don't really know if the game expected me to like or to dislike Kevin given those early interactions in SC. He got better in the end (even before that scene between him and Weissmann), and he's finally dropping this easygoing, cheerful act in 3rd and I'm excited to see the real Kevin.
I don't really know if the game expected me to like or to dislike Kevin given those early interactions in SC. He got better in the end (even before that scene between him and Weissmann), and he's finally dropping this easygoing, cheerful act in 3rd and I'm excited to see the real Kevin.
ResourcefulStar
Neo Member
The male lead still gets a harem (Estelle,
Josette
Kloe
One thing good about the school structure though, is that we get to see the old NPCs in school. To me they are the true stars of Cold Steel (if I have to pick some stars).
Yeah, like, what's so good about Class 7? I'm ready to move on.
The game does not give you the option to pick your favorite waifu, that's the main difference between a love triangle story and a harem system.
I'm totally fine with playing as a lady killer, a lady killer can be as well written as any other types of protagonists. I just don't want a self-insert vessel.
Yeah, like, what's so good about Class 7? I'm ready to move on.
The game does not give you the option to pick your favorite waifu, that's the main difference between a love triangle story and a harem system.
I'm totally fine with playing as a lady killer, a lady killer can be as well written as any other types of protagonists. I just don't want a self-insert vessel.
Some Nobody
Junior Member
Wait. A CS 1 and 2 port?? Hmmm. I may just go ahead and sell my PS3 once they're fully confirmed.