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[Gattsu25]

Please note, this is not about kek or kekekekeke

Its about the 'flag of kekistan'

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/YxbT2ao.jpg[/IMG]
[img]https://video-images.vice.com/articles/59b815adcc1f446730b22e16/lede/1505236438863-Screen-Shot-2017-09-12-at-114336-AM.png[/img]

The end of the article in the OP has a refresher for people who are not familiar with it:

Without going into the long lineage of bullshit memes that are the signs and sigils of modern white supremacy's public face, the "Kekistan flag" combines a popular internet shorthand that became a symbol of white supremacist sympathies with the German military flag of Hitler's Third Reich. Drawing an explicit connection to Nazi violence was of course the point of the flag, allowing white supremacists to reskin the classic symbols of Nazism in a way that would fly under many people's radars, providing a bit of camouflage to their efforts to reassert themselves into public spaces and modern political discourse.

Which is why the flag was so prominently on display at the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, where a white supremacist aimed a car into a crowd of protesters and murdered one of them and injured dozens of others.

After those events, the Southern Poverty Law Center, a nonprofit advocacy organization which monitors hate groups in America, offered analysis about the flag's purpose in these groups:

The "national flag of Kekistan" mimics a German Nazi war flag, with the Kek logo replacing the swastika and the green replacing the infamous German red. A 4chan logo is emblazoned in the upper left hand corner. Alt-righters are particularly fond of the way the banner trolls liberals who recognize its origins.​

To be clear, the iconography on the Road Complex AA1 gauntlets is not identical, but its green coloration, and the shape of the KEK lettering are obvious signals. Doubtless there will be people who refuse to acknowledge the very clear symbolism here, much in the same way that the Kekistan flag itself was designed to give overt symbols of Nazi allegiance an ironic cover story. The entire cartoonish nature of modern white supremacist symbolism is to make clear, sincere statements of belief that believers can then turn around and masquerade as an edgy joke.

But that's a shell game where in the name of fairness someone can be asked to provide endless proof of what is evident to the naked eye. It's a way to make victims and targets seem ridiculous while their abusers and assailants are portrayed as mere jesters from the court of internet dadaism, with no connection to real-world harassment and violence.​

Here are some people flying the flag at the white supremacists rally in Charlottesville:

Here are uses of the Kekistan flag at protests and rallies.

Charlottesville (August 12th, 2017)

Portland alt-right rally (June 4, 2017)

Berkeley (April 15th, 2017)

Unknown

Boston (May 13th, 2017)

 

[RichiRamjag]

The end of the article in the OP has a refresher for people who are not familiar with it:

Without going into the long lineage of bullshit memes that are the signs and sigils of modern white supremacy's public face, the "Kekistan flag" combines a popular internet shorthand that became a symbol of white supremacist sympathies with the German military flag of Hitler's Third Reich. Drawing an explicit connection to Nazi violence was of course the point of the flag, allowing white supremacists to reskin the classic symbols of Nazism in a way that would fly under many people's radars, providing a bit of camouflage to their efforts to reassert themselves into public spaces and modern political discourse.

Which is why the flag was so prominently on display at the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, where a white supremacist aimed a car into a crowd of protesters and murdered one of them and injured dozens of others.

After those events, the Southern Poverty Law Center, a nonprofit advocacy organization which monitors hate groups in America, offered analysis about the flag's purpose in these groups:

The "national flag of Kekistan" mimics a German Nazi war flag, with the Kek logo replacing the swastika and the green replacing the infamous German red. A 4chan logo is emblazoned in the upper left hand corner. Alt-righters are particularly fond of the way the banner trolls liberals who recognize its origins.​

To be clear, the iconography on the Road Complex AA1 gauntlets is not identical, but its green coloration, and the shape of the KEK lettering are obvious signals. Doubtless there will be people who refuse to acknowledge the very clear symbolism here, much in the same way that the Kekistan flag itself was designed to give overt symbols of Nazi allegiance an ironic cover story. The entire cartoonish nature of modern white supremacist symbolism is to make clear, sincere statements of belief that believers can then turn around and masquerade as an edgy joke.

But that's a shell game where in the name of fairness someone can be asked to provide endless proof of what is evident to the naked eye. It's a way to make victims and targets seem ridiculous while their abusers and assailants are portrayed as mere jesters from the court of internet dadaism, with no connection to real-world harassment and violence.​

.

Cool. Thanks for sharing. I wasn't trying to argue that it doesn't mean anything or wasn't offensive or anything like that though. It's just my first time really hearing anything about it. The flag that is.

 

[Sai-kun]

This thread is a total embarrassment. Come out of your parents basement every once in a while people. There are serious injustices in the world instead of some manufactured micro-aggression du jour.

Relax, the symbol offended some people. Bungie removed it. Move along...

ssshhh go back to the other place, friend. nobody cares about your inability to process more than one thing at a time.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Why is it that videogames are becoming so synonymous with alt righters? What did games did to deserve being connected to hate symbols like this?

I hate my hobby sometimes.

 

[FlyinJ]

Coming in here...

"Kekistan"

"Pepe rules Pakistan"



I get the issue fam. Racism and all.

But I feel like people should be upset for no more than 1 minute, on a 3/10 level.

Instead, it is an 9/10 and a graveyard of banned accounts.

Can the world in general just chill?


Peace dudes. From Germany.
Peace.

20 years of this attitude festered then culminated into GamerGate.

We're not standing for this shit again in the game industry.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Please note, this is not about kek or kekekekeke

Its about the 'flag of kekistan'

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/YxbT2ao.jpg[/IMG]
[img]https://video-images.vice.com/articles/59b815adcc1f446730b22e16/lede/1505236438863-Screen-Shot-2017-09-12-at-114336-AM.png[/img]

The end of the article in the OP has a refresher for people who are not familiar with it:

Without going into the long lineage of bullshit memes that are the signs and sigils of modern white supremacy's public face, the "Kekistan flag" combines a popular internet shorthand that became a symbol of white supremacist sympathies with the German military flag of Hitler's Third Reich. Drawing an explicit connection to Nazi violence was of course the point of the flag, allowing white supremacists to reskin the classic symbols of Nazism in a way that would fly under many people's radars, providing a bit of camouflage to their efforts to reassert themselves into public spaces and modern political discourse.

Which is why the flag was so prominently on display at the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, where a white supremacist aimed a car into a crowd of protesters and murdered one of them and injured dozens of others.

After those events, the Southern Poverty Law Center, a nonprofit advocacy organization which monitors hate groups in America, offered analysis about the flag's purpose in these groups:

The "national flag of Kekistan" mimics a German Nazi war flag, with the Kek logo replacing the swastika and the green replacing the infamous German red. A 4chan logo is emblazoned in the upper left hand corner. Alt-righters are particularly fond of the way the banner trolls liberals who recognize its origins.​

To be clear, the iconography on the Road Complex AA1 gauntlets is not identical, but its green coloration, and the shape of the KEK lettering are obvious signals. Doubtless there will be people who refuse to acknowledge the very clear symbolism here, much in the same way that the Kekistan flag itself was designed to give overt symbols of Nazi allegiance an ironic cover story. The entire cartoonish nature of modern white supremacist symbolism is to make clear, sincere statements of belief that believers can then turn around and masquerade as an edgy joke.

But that's a shell game where in the name of fairness someone can be asked to provide endless proof of what is evident to the naked eye. It's a way to make victims and targets seem ridiculous while their abusers and assailants are portrayed as mere jesters from the court of internet dadaism, with no connection to real-world harassment and violence.​

Here are some people flying the flag at the white supremacists rally in Charlottesville:

To the many in this thread asking how come "kek" is now synonym with white supremacists: it's not the three letter "word" that's the problem. It's the symbolism around it that gives it its hate meaning. I mean just look at that motherfucking battle flag comparison!

 

[Messofanego]

Why is it that videogames are becoming so synonymous with alt righters? What did games did to deserve being connected to hate symbols like this?

I hate my hobby sometimes.

Gamergate was a breeding ground for the alt right. Young angry (mostly white) people not affected by issues about racism/sexism/misogyny/bigotry/representation who kept on hearing about these issues in the videogames industry were the perfect group to be radicalised into far right beliefs and ideologies.

 

[Blam]

again?

Yeah I asked before why would anyone even bother risking their job over something so stupid, and I was faced with quite a lot of examples I wasn't expecting honestly. Completely ignorant of me to spew shit like that without actually searching it up. Completely sorry about that.

 

[SledGod]

Coming in here...

"Kekistan"

"Pepe rules Pakistan"



I get the issue fam. Racism and all.

But I feel like people should be upset for no more than 1 minute, on a 3/10 level.

Instead, it is an 9/10 and a graveyard of banned accounts.

Can the world in general just chill?


Peace dudes. From Germany.
Peace.

Because being chill about racist assholes has worked so well for the Germans.

 

[Vlade]

20 years of this attitude festered then culminated into GamerGate.

We're not standing for this shit again in the game industry.

That's exactly where I'm at. im not ok with people laughing off racism in games, and im happy to say so repeatedly, and do what I can as a consumer and enthusiast in my non-internet life as well.

I appreciate how shocked! some are by the thought that I/we would think this particular topic is worth the time. gives me purpose.

 

[Lights and Waves]

hope they find the dude who snuck this in and get rid of him. too close to be a coincidence imo

Exactly. "Not intentional." What a load of bullshit.

 

[koss424]

Why is it that videogames are becoming so synonymous with alt righters? What did games did to deserve being connected to hate symbols like this?

I hate my hobby sometimes.

It's just the 4chan. They play video games, make memes, live for the lulz and hate themselves.

 

[Hendrick's]

While I think it was likely intentional, I'm willing to hear a plausible explanation on how it may have been an accident before condemning anyone. I don't follow Destiny, but do those letters and symbol represent anything in the game? Are they used elsewhere in a different configuration?

 

[ZeoVGM]

Just as a general note, I don't respond to burner accounts because I hope to have a fruitful discussion, but mainly because I know many more people read than reply to threads. And some of them may be thinking similar things, or at least wondering why the burner is incorrect about something. It's sometimes worth it for these reasons, IMHO.

True, it's clear something is a bit questionable when this is the first thread they post in after two years while still being a junior member.

But is it really a "burner" account when they use the same user name on both Twitter and Reddit, where they not only post about Destiny, but also about their "God Emperor Trump" and liberals trying to destroy free speech?

Perhaps this is one of those "if a tree falls in the forest" questions.

 

[Silent Hill]

Because being chill about racist assholes has worked so well for the Germans.

Wut?

 

[Audioboxer]

Please note, this is not about kek or kekekekeke

Its about the 'flag of kekistan'

Yeah I know, I just posted that topkek thing on the last page for the active troll.

Speaking of the flag, though, let's compare what is different for any of the "this is literally the flag" posts

First of all, the arm piece

1. The Lines

• a) Lines are longer
  b) Lines are horizontal
  c) 4 Lines are used, not 3

2. The K's

• a) These are similar in typography/design, no argument there. Even a comic sans K will look like a K, though. I can only again refer to this post which talks about why inverted letters/typography and lines are used from a design perspective
  b) There are however only 2 used, not 4
  c) On this arm piece, there is an additional | line

3. The colour

• a) Yes these are green by default, but it is quite clearly a light lime green, not any sort of shade of darker/racing green similar to the flag
  b) Letter/lines colours are grey/white, not black. Although that might be changeable with shaders?

4. The rest

• a) Has no circle/lines around the emblem
  b) Has no hearts or whatever the heck those 4 things are at the top left

Next, the leg piece

Basically the same as the above, but it only takes the K and 4 lines. Drops the | lines. Smaller design window, the K=K may be a singular image vector assigned to the hunter armour. On the arm pieces, the | are additions.

Why make this post? Well, why not? If people want to say it's 100% the same it is worth comparing like a game of spot the difference. Point being not to say there aren't similarities, even Bungie admitted that

1/2 It's come to our attention that a gauntlet in Destiny 2 shares elements with a hate symbol. It is not intentional. We are removing it.

Lines and letters are simply elements.

KK monogram on Google image search, as per that post I linked to above

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="...aLWAhUHDcAKHQ5ND6QQ_AUICigB&biw=1723&bih=1083

 

[Finale Fireworker]

My point is that people have overreacted and advocating someone be fired because something offends them (without knowing if it was even done of purpose) is some of the absolute worst of what our culture has become, gaming related or not. The people in this thread are a digital lynch mob who need perspective on life

While I am sure it is futile to try to give you some perspective, I will join others in trying.

The first problem here is that you don't understand what it means to be "offended." You are viewing different levels of reaction as identical. For some reason, you are conditioned to believe having a passionate response to anything is a sign of weakness or failure. You think it's the responsibility of every able-minded citizen to disengage and not care about what's going on around them. This is probably because you have never been affected by the operations of an authority or a society that makes express attempts at eliminating you for how you were born or what you look like.

What you think it means to be offended is actually what it means to be insulted.

It is insulting to tell somebody to fuck off. It is insulting to place a crucifix in a jar of piss. It is insulting to take a selfie with an open casket. It is insulting to remove a silver cloche to reveal shit on a plate in a fancy restaurant. Being insulted is a virtue of sensibility - people react differently to an insulting stimulus based on all kinds of varying factors. This is why some people might think it's funny and some people might be distressed. Not everyone will react the same way to somebody streaking at a sporting event. Some might turn their nose in disgust and others might cheer and clap.

But there is lots of room in society for insult and injury and it's all right that not everyone feels the same way about these things. While the appropriateness of these gestures can be debated and discussed, they are not an act of hatred or degradation. Society is not set back or fractured because somebody said something rude or did something abnormal.

But some insults are greater and have stronger impacts than saying "you're a really terrible athlete, you should quit the team." These things can hurt someone's feelings, and they might make you an asshole for saying them, but they do not normalize the idea that other human beings are lesser than you. They do not encourage the thought that you should rape and kill at your leisure and discretion. They do not promote the idea that people need to stay in their place or face brutal and unforgiving consequences.

They are not inherent acts of hatred. They are not intended to be acts of violence. Other things are.

Calling somebody a fucking faggot is not the same as telling somebody to fuck off. Faggot has killed people. It has made people hate themselves and live in shame. It has torn apart families and castrated geniuses and cost people their livelihoods. It made people afraid to ask for help when they've been abused, it stopped them from getting medicine that might save their lives, it drove people underground and away from society for wanting to indulge in their basic human impulses. People who use this word don't want to offend you, they want to humiliate you. They want you to feel lesser and smaller and meaningless. They want you to not exist, to have never existed, and to never exist again. They want you fucking gone and they relish in the opportunity to advance that thought.

Does that mean every single use of the word faggot or nigger is motivated by this? No, not necessarily. But it means you should be very, very considerate in how you use these words. Because treating them like they mean nothing is an absolute failure in compassion. It says "what has happened to you doesn't matter." It says "your history is not important." It says "my joke is more important than your life."

Flags of the Confederacy and Kekistan and other white supremacist bull shit are offensive because they are constructs of exclusion. They are totems that say "I hate you and think your suffering is hilarious." They are explicitly designed to frighten, disparage, and disenfranchise other human beings. These things are not just insulting. They are not something you can shake off or ignore. These are assaults on the integrity of your existence. The implication is that there is none.

Hate speech has two goals:

1. Normalize and promote ideologies based on hateful division
2. Frighten people affected by those politics into submission

So, to combat them, you have one singular option: to react strongly and negatively. Because that's what people flying these flags don't want you to do. When you do, they laugh. They try to delegitimize your opposition as trite hysteria. They'll call you triggered, they'll call you SJWs, they'll laugh at you and make subreddits about raping and killing you because you're such worthless fucking trash. These are their attempts at making you stop - at silencing your opposition. They want you to fall in line with them or to enable them with your apathy. It doesn't matter which one, they win either way.

They are not just words or just symbols. People are not "giving them power," they are designed to be powerful. They are tools of attempted authority. They incite hostile response because that is how they are intended to work. They attempt to victimize as many people as possible in pursuit of ethnic and social dominance. And when you don't react to them, you reinforce them. When you don't take them seriously, they gain ground. When you give them a pass, they become justified and vindicated and validated and they cross more lines and make bolder plays for power.

When you say people shouldn't be getting upset over something that has historically ended the lives of people just like their friend and families, you're wrong.

You're selfish and you're wrong.


Afterthought edit: I don't take my use of the language above lightly and I hope people will forgive its use in this context - it is meant to demonstrate the severity of the verbiage. I am uncomfortable still by even this use of the vocabulary and hope my intentions are plain.

 

[inky]

Someone needs to get fired for this. Heck, if I was an employee I'd be looking for the culprit myself. Who wants to work with people who think this is OK to do?

 

[Eidan]

Why is it that videogames are becoming so synonymous with alt righters? What did games did to deserve being connected to hate symbols like this?

I hate my hobby sometimes.

Gamergate.

 

[Trojita]

Yeah I don't think I've ever seen Kekistan ever. And I mean ever used outside of the internet.

It's a thing made up by 4channers, and I mean seriously linking this to "White Supremacist" is a huge reach.

I need some proof that this was actually used by anyone at a protest or march, etc. I stand corrected once more.

Regardless it's a pretty bad "flag" since it's an alternative version of Pakistan which Pepe rules the land. If I remember correctly.



Yeah this artist is now fearing for their job because of an overreach like this, and the worst part is that shit like this has happened before, and people never recover from this.

I know you already edited your post, but there were so many examples even yesterday and I hardly even participated in this thread. Why is this the hill you want to die on?

 

[ezekial45]

Why is it that videogames are becoming so synonymous with alt righters? What did games did to deserve being connected to hate symbols like this?

I hate my hobby sometimes.

Video games are a solitary hobby focusing on escapist power fantasies that can make people who don't have much agency in their lives feel empowered. While there are many games that take advantage of that and cover political and social issues for the better, the medium also goes hand in hand with internet communities who lack real social interactions and stay within certain circles to make each other feel better about things in life they don't like or understand.

That's why these people get mad when someone reviews a game they like poorly--as they interpret it as an attack on them because of their need for the game--that's why these people get mad when particularly a female criticizes a game for being about toxic masculinity, and that's why these people people get mad when a person of color wants to talk about the need for inclusion. To those on 4chan, gamergate, alt-right Reddit communities, and elsewhere--video games are not for anyone else except them. This is the kind of mentality that sprouts up when people spend much of lives and our basically raised by the internet.

I truly love video games, and it's one of my favorite hobbies, but there's a dark side to it that not many people are willing to accept at all.

 

[Anoregon]

Why make this post? Well, why not? If people want to say it's 100% the same it is worth comparing like a game of spot the difference. Point being not to say there aren't similarities, even Bungie admitted that

Yeah, even if they could somehow prove beyond a doubt that the similarities are a total coincidence, it's still too close for comfort. Bungie being proactive and getting ahead of the situation ASAP by issuing a statement and removing it was a good move.

 

[thumb]

While I am sure it is futile to try to give you some perspective, I will join others in trying.

Thanks for taking the time to write this all out. Well said.

 

[Weltall Zero]

I should have been more clear, sorry. I just don't understand how the studio at large would lack the resources to vet their designs, have those checks and balances, for just copyright reasons alone.

I'm not in the industry but I do realise deadlines and job realities - as people are eager to point out to me - often preclude the kind of scrutiny I guess I expected from a title with over a 1000 people working on it.

What does it matter how many people are working in a studio? Nobody is going to go over everyone else's job unless doing that is precisely their job. You'd be lucky to have one person check designs for copyrighted stuff; it would require being already somewhat paranoid about your own workers, it would be a full time job precisely because the amount of stuff made is so large, and studios are typically working on very tight schedules and budgets to hire even one person doing just that.

It's immaterial. As someone with a rudimentary appreciation for art/copyright etc, I would expect on a project like this for everything to be approved in mind numbingly forensic detail; have an established brief for assets like iconography.

Then I don't know what to say other than your expectations are unrealistic.

We tend to think studios are magical places like Wonka's chocolate factory just because they produce great stuff. The reality is that they're as human and error-prone as any other workplace. Also, they can get away with paying less than other companies because the work is more rewarding: hiring even a single person to go over every design and cross-reference them for copyright or obscure symbols is the opposite of rewarding, so they would have to pay normal wages. And even then, stuff like this is extremelly easy to miss.

 

[Vlade]

While I am sure it is futile to try to give you some perspective, I will join others in trying.

The first problem here is that you don't understand what it means to be "offended." You are viewing different levels of reaction as identical. For some reason, you are conditioned to believe having a passionate response to anything is a sign of weakness or failure. You think it's the responsibility of every able-minded citizen to disengage and not care about what's going on around them. This is probably because you have never been affected by the operations an authority or a society that makes express attempts at eliminating you for how you were born or what you look like.

What you think it means to be offended is actually what it means to be insulted.

It is insulting to tell somebody to fuck off. It is insulting to place a crucifix in a jar of piss. It is insulting to take a selfie with an open casket. It is insulting to remove a silver cloche to reveal shit on a plate in a fancy restaurant. Being insulted is a virtue of sensibility - people react differently to an insulting stimulus based on all kinds of varying factors. This is why some people might think it's funny and some people might be distressed. Not everyone will react the same way to somebody streaking at a sporting event. Some might turn their nose in disgust and others might cheer and clap.

But there is lots of room in society for insult and injury and it's all right that not everyone feels the same way about these things. While the appropriateness of these gestures can be debated and discussed, they are not an act of hatred or degradation. Society is not set back or fractured because somebody said something rude or did something abnormal.

But some insults are greater and have stronger impacts than saying "you're a really terrible athlete, you should quit the team." These things can hurt someone's feelings, and they might make you an asshole for saying them, but they do not normalize the idea that other human beings are lesser than you. They do not encourage the thought that you should rape and kill at your leisure and discretion. They do not promote the idea that people need to stay in their place or face brutal and unforgiving consequences.

They are not inherent acts of hatred. They are not intended to be acts of violence. Other things are.

Calling somebody a fucking faggot is not the same as telling somebody to fuck off. Faggot has killed people. It has made people hate themselves and live in shame. It has torn apart families and castrated geniuses and cost people their livelihoods. It made people afraid to ask for help when they've been abused, it stopped them from getting medicine that might save their lives, it drove people underground and away from society for wanting to indulge in their basic human impulses. People who use this word don't want to offend you, they want to humiliate you. They want you to feel lesser and smaller and meaningless. They want you to not exist, to have never existed, and to never exist again. They want you fucking gone and they relish in the opportunity to advance that thought.

Does that mean every single use of the word faggot or nigger is motivated by this? No, not necessarily. But it means you should be very, very considerate in how you use these words. Because treating them like they mean nothing is an absolute failure in compassion. It says "what has happened to you doesn't matter." It says "your history is not important." It says "my joke is more important than your life."

Flags of the Confederacy and Kekistan and other white supremacist bull shit are offensive because they are constructs of exclusion. They are totems that say "I hate you and think your suffering is hilarious." They are explicitly designed to frighten, disparage, and disenfranchise other human beings. These things are not just insulting. They are not something you can shake off or ignore. These are assaults on the integrity of your existence. The implication is that there is none.

Hate speech has two goals:

1. Normalize and promote ideologies based on hateful division
2. Frighten people affected by those politics into submission

So, to combat them, you have one singular option: to react strongly and negatively. Because that's what people flying these flags don't want you to do. When you do, they laugh. They try to delegitimize your opposition as trite hysteria. They'll call you triggered, they'll call you SJWs, they'll laugh at you and make subreddits about raping and killing you because you're such worthless fucking trash. These are their attempts at making you stop - at silencing your opposition. They want you to fall in line with them or to enable them with your apathy. It doesn't matter which one, they win either way.

They are not just words or just symbols. People are not "giving them power," they are designed to be powerful. They are tools of attempted authority. They incite hostile response because that is how they are intended to work. They attempt to victimize as many people as possible in pursuit of ethnic and social dominance. And when you don't react to them, you reinforce them. When you don't take them seriously, they gain ground. When you give them a pass, they become justified and vindicated and validated and they cross more lines and make bolder plays for power.

When you say people shouldn't be getting upset over something that has historically ended the lives of people just like their friend and families, you're wrong.

You're selfish and you're wrong.

Excellent.

Symbols of hate are not a low stakes game to be blown off as semantics or probably just funny.

 

[SledGod]

Wut?

Huh?

 

[Tahnit]

The thing is that that armor didn’t match the other pieces with the same name AT ALL. So there is no question it was intentional.

 

[Ragnite]

It's also designed with enough plausible deniability that someone who is not familiar with older Nazi or KKK flags might think it is innocuous

They got me to be honest, I see Kekistan symbols all the time on twitter and 4chan and had never realized how similar to the old nazi flag its flag is.

I guess that's one of their tactics, they can always say "its just a meme bruh xddd" when confronted.

 

[Weltall Zero]

While I am sure it is futile to try to give you some perspective, I will join others in trying.

The first problem here is that you don't understand what it means to be "offended." You are viewing different levels of reaction as identical. For some reason, you are conditioned to believe having a passionate response to anything is a sign of weakness or failure. You think it's the responsibility of every able-minded citizen to disengage and not care about what's going on around them. This is probably because you have never been affected by the operations an authority or a society that makes express attempts at eliminating you for how you were born or what you look like.

What you think it means to be offended is actually what it means to be insulted.

It is insulting to tell somebody to fuck off. It is insulting to place a crucifix in a jar of piss. It is insulting to take a selfie with an open casket. It is insulting to remove a silver cloche to reveal shit on a plate in a fancy restaurant. Being insulted is a virtue of sensibility - people react differently to an insulting stimulus based on all kinds of varying factors. This is why some people might think it's funny and some people might be distressed. Not everyone will react the same way to somebody streaking at a sporting event. Some might turn their nose in disgust and others might cheer and clap.

But there is lots of room in society for insult and injury and it's all right that not everyone feels the same way about these things. While the appropriateness of these gestures can be debated and discussed, they are not an act of hatred or degradation. Society is not set back or fractured because somebody said something rude or did something abnormal.

But some insults are greater and have stronger impacts than saying "you're a really terrible athlete, you should quit the team." These things can hurt someone's feelings, and they might make you an asshole for saying them, but they do not normalize the idea that other human beings are lesser than you. They do not encourage the thought that you should rape and kill at your leisure and discretion. They do not promote the idea that people need to stay in their place or face brutal and unforgiving consequences.

They are not inherent acts of hatred. They are not intended to be acts of violence. Other things are.

Calling somebody a fucking faggot is not the same as telling somebody to fuck off. Faggot has killed people. It has made people hate themselves and live in shame. It has torn apart families and castrated geniuses and cost people their livelihoods. It made people afraid to ask for help when they've been abused, it stopped them from getting medicine that might save their lives, it drove people underground and away from society for wanting to indulge in their basic human impulses. People who use this word don't want to offend you, they want to humiliate you. They want you to feel lesser and smaller and meaningless. They want you to not exist, to have never existed, and to never exist again. They want you fucking gone and they relish in the opportunity to advance that thought.

Does that mean every single use of the word faggot or nigger is motivated by this? No, not necessarily. But it means you should be very, very considerate in how you use these words. Because treating them like they mean nothing is an absolute failure in compassion. It says "what has happened to you doesn't matter." It says "your history is not important." It says "my joke is more important than your life."

Flags of the Confederacy and Kekistan and other white supremacist bull shit are offensive because they are constructs of exclusion. They are totems that say "I hate you and think your suffering is hilarious." They are explicitly designed to frighten, disparage, and disenfranchise other human beings. These things are not just insulting. They are not something you can shake off or ignore. These are assaults on the integrity of your existence. The implication is that there is none.

Hate speech has two goals:

1. Normalize and promote ideologies based on hateful division
2. Frighten people affected by those politics into submission

So, to combat them, you have one singular option: to react strongly and negatively. Because that's what people flying these flags don't want you to do. When you do, they laugh. They try to delegitimize your opposition as trite hysteria. They'll call you triggered, they'll call you SJWs, they'll laugh at you and make subreddits about raping and killing you because you're such worthless fucking trash. These are their attempts at making you stop - at silencing your opposition. They want you to fall in line with them or to enable them with your apathy. It doesn't matter which one, they win either way.

They are not just words or just symbols. People are not "giving them power," they are designed to be powerful. They are tools of attempted authority. They incite hostile response because that is how they are intended to work. They attempt to victimize as many people as possible in pursuit of ethnic and social dominance. And when you don't react to them, you reinforce them. When you don't take them seriously, they gain ground. When you give them a pass, they become justified and vindicated and validated and they cross more lines and make bolder plays for power.

When you say people shouldn't be getting upset over something that has historically ended the lives of people just like their friend and families, you're wrong.

You're selfish and you're wrong.

Damn. Finale Fireworker laying out the bare, hard, cold truth, as always.

 

[Audioboxer]

Yeah, even if they could somehow prove beyond a doubt that the similarities are a total coincidence, it's still too close for comfort. Bungie being proactive and getting ahead of the situation ASAP by issuing a statement and removing it was a good move.

I agree and have since post 1 in this topic. There's absolutely no reason not to patch it out, apologise and listen to feedback. I'm just not 100% on board with posts saying there isn't even 0.5% chance a coincidence has occured and someone is to be fired. I've beaten my thoughts to death on the firing debate, I just wanted to post that above about the actual design smiliarities and differences. There are some differences whether people want to accept it or not. Probably should have been my first post in here but oh well! I done the comparison in my head when I first entered this topic but it's worth writing it out.

 

[Kinyou]

The thing is that that armor didn’t match the other pieces with the same name AT ALL. So there is no question it was intentional.

Are there pictures of the full set? Just a few posts above someone posted part of the legpiece which seems to fit in with the gauntlets.

 

[ZeoVGM]

While I am sure it is futile to try to give you some perspective, I will join others in trying.

The first problem here is that you don't understand what it means to be "offended." You are viewing different levels of reaction as identical. For some reason, you are conditioned to believe having a passionate response to anything is a sign of weakness or failure. You think it's the responsibility of every able-minded citizen to disengage and not care about what's going on around them. This is probably because you have never been affected by the operations an authority or a society that makes express attempts at eliminating you for how you were born or what you look like.

What you think it means to be offended is actually what it means to be insulted.

It is insulting to tell somebody to fuck off. It is insulting to place a crucifix in a jar of piss. It is insulting to take a selfie with an open casket. It is insulting to remove a silver cloche to reveal shit on a plate in a fancy restaurant. Being insulted is a virtue of sensibility - people react differently to an insulting stimulus based on all kinds of varying factors. This is why some people might think it's funny and some people might be distressed. Not everyone will react the same way to somebody streaking at a sporting event. Some might turn their nose in disgust and others might cheer and clap.

But there is lots of room in society for insult and injury and it's all right that not everyone feels the same way about these things. While the appropriateness of these gestures can be debated and discussed, they are not an act of hatred or degradation. Society is not set back or fractured because somebody said something rude or did something abnormal.

But some insults are greater and have stronger impacts than saying "you're a really terrible athlete, you should quit the team." These things can hurt someone's feelings, and they might make you an asshole for saying them, but they do not normalize the idea that other human beings are lesser than you. They do not encourage the thought that you should rape and kill at your leisure and discretion. They do not promote the idea that people need to stay in their place or face brutal and unforgiving consequences.

They are not inherent acts of hatred. They are not intended to be acts of violence. Other things are.

Calling somebody a fucking faggot is not the same as telling somebody to fuck off. Faggot has killed people. It has made people hate themselves and live in shame. It has torn apart families and castrated geniuses and cost people their livelihoods. It made people afraid to ask for help when they've been abused, it stopped them from getting medicine that might save their lives, it drove people underground and away from society for wanting to indulge in their basic human impulses. People who use this word don't want to offend you, they want to humiliate you. They want you to feel lesser and smaller and meaningless. They want you to not exist, to have never existed, and to never exist again. They want you fucking gone and they relish in the opportunity to advance that thought.

Does that mean every single use of the word faggot or nigger is motivated by this? No, not necessarily. But it means you should be very, very considerate in how you use these words. Because treating them like they mean nothing is an absolute failure in compassion. It says "what has happened to you doesn't matter." It says "your history is not important." It says "my joke is more important than your life."

Flags of the Confederacy and Kekistan and other white supremacist bull shit are offensive because they are constructs of exclusion. They are totems that say "I hate you and think your suffering is hilarious." They are explicitly designed to frighten, disparage, and disenfranchise other human beings. These things are not just insulting. They are not something you can shake off or ignore. These are assaults on the integrity of your existence. The implication is that there is none.

Hate speech has two goals:

1. Normalize and promote ideologies based on hateful division
2. Frighten people affected by those politics into submission

So, to combat them, you have one singular option: to react strongly and negatively. Because that's what people flying these flags don't want you to do. When you do, they laugh. They try to delegitimize your opposition as trite hysteria. They'll call you triggered, they'll call you SJWs, they'll laugh at you and make subreddits about raping and killing you because you're such worthless fucking trash. These are their attempts at making you stop - at silencing your opposition. They want you to fall in line with them or to enable them with your apathy. It doesn't matter which one, they win either way.

They are not just words or just symbols. People are not "giving them power," they are designed to be powerful. They are tools of attempted authority. They incite hostile response because that is how they are intended to work. They attempt to victimize as many people as possible in pursuit of ethnic and social dominance. And when you don't react to them, you reinforce them. When you don't take them seriously, they gain ground. When you give them a pass, they become justified and vindicated and validated and they cross more lines and make bolder plays for power.

When you say people shouldn't be getting upset over something that has historically ended the lives of people just like their friend and families, you're wrong.

You're selfish and you're wrong.


Afterthought edit: I don't take my use of the language above lightly and I hope people will forgive its use in this context - it is meant to demonstrate the severity of the verbiage. I am uncomfortable still by even this use of the vocabulary and hope my intentions are plain.

One of the best posts I've seen in a while. Thank you.

Unfortunately, the issue with that poster specifically is not that he doesn't understand. It's that he does understand and either doesn't care or falls more in line with those who use those symbols.

 

[Alkastelca]

So anything also used by white supermacists should be banned ?
If they play Destiny 2, it should be banned.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Yeah this artist is now fearing for their job because of an overreach like this, and the worst part is that shit like this has happened before, and people never recover from this.

At some point you might want to stop pulling stuff from your ass instead of posting "I stand corrected" over and over.

 

[Tahnit]

Are there pictures of the full set? Just a few posts above someone posted part of the legpiece which seems to fit in with the gauntlets.

Then why didn’t they remove those as well?

 

[Weltall Zero]

So anything also used by white supermacists should be banned ?
If they play Destiny 2, it should be banned.

Used by =/= created by =/= created by with the express intention of hate speech. And it's kind of amazing that I have to point this out.

Then why didn't they remove those as well?

What makes you think they didn't?

 

[Messofanego]

True, it's clear something is a bit questionable when this is the first thread they post in after two years while still being a junior member.

But is it really a "burner" account when they use the same user name on both Twitter and Reddit, where they not only post about Destiny, but also about their "God Emperor Trump" and liberals trying to destroy free speech?

Perhaps this is one of those "if a tree falls in the forest" questions.

Just checked that. So not surprised

 

[Kinyou]

Then why didn't they remove those as well?

I assume they will (or already have? Not like I can check)

 

[jstripes]

To the many in this thread asking how come "kek" is now synonym with white supremacists: it's not the three letter "word" that's the problem. It's the symbolism around it that gives it its hate meaning. I mean just look at that motherfucking battle flag comparison!

It's classic gaslighting.

Quietly start using an "innocent" meme as a symbol of the alt-right. Watch it spread. When it spreads too far and the left catches on and starts to inform the mainstream, dismiss it as "just a silly meme", and spin it around by saying "why does the left have to be so paranoid, thinking everything is a hate symbol?" Keep using it and continue to condemn the left as crazy, or drop it and move onto a new symbol to gaslight with.

 

[Village]

Why is it that videogames are becoming so synonymous with alt righters? What did games did to deserve being connected to hate symbols like this?

I hate my hobby sometimes.

Like comics before it, and multiple other mediums synonymous with nerds or outcasts that isn't also synonymous with people of color. It attracts people, and no many how many people you gather, hell they should make this a scientific law, but no matter how many people you gather at least a few of those mother fuckers are going to be crazy.

And this particular brand crazy mother fucker is the kind that cant actually take responsibility for their lot in life in one marginalized group after another's fault as to why they fucked up. " this girl didn't like me, i deserved her" Oh " these blacks getting into colleges taking my chances away". Never bothering to do research or go through introspection to change themselves or to get informed. That would require acknowledging that they are at fault.

And if a person thought their life was already kind of being infringed upon when shit wasn't fair in favor of them, shit getting more and more fair over time, seems unfair to them. It makes them feel like shits being taken away when in actuality other people get to exist in a more fair environment

There's a lot more reasons, some of them simpler.

But I find a lot of it , is a lot of motheruckers who wont take responsibility for their shit lives gathering on the internet to make everyone else's life who isn't like them, worse.

 

[ramoisdead]

So anything also used by white supermacists should be banned ?
If they play Destiny 2, it should be banned.

Don't be ridiculous. No one is saying you should stop doing the OK sign, using the letters "kek", or play Destiny 2 just because white supremacists are doing it. Just to be aware on why people who rep the sole call "kekistan" flag are using these signals as a way to be innocuous to the normal eye but in reality lies an inside joke of hate.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Just checked that. So not surprised

It never fails.

Every. Single. Time.

These people are so damn transparent but somehow, also incredibly cowardly.

 

[ZeoVGM]

So anything also used by white supermacists should be banned ?
If they play Destiny 2, it should be banned.

 

[Oscar]

Back in my WoW days, "Kek" was how Horde players would be able to communicate "lol" with the Alliance.

 

[Gestault]

First of all, the arm piece

1. The Lines

• a) Lines are longer
  b) Lines are horizontal
  c) 4 Lines are used, not 3

I'm apparently gonna blow your mind here:

Also, look at the number of white lines on the Destiny icon. Now look at the white spaces between the black lines on the flag. There's no way to dimiss this many elements as incidental.

Lines and letters are simply elements.

This is simplistic to the absurd to dismiss (effectively) identical designs.

 

[Anoregon]

Back in my WoW days, "Kek" was how Horde players would be able to communicate "lol" with the Alliance.

bur

 

[Sayad]

...
4. The rest

• a) Has no circle/lines around the emblem
  b) Has no hearts or whatever the heck those 4 things are at the top left

I was giving them the benefit of the doubt, thought it was a honest mistake, the K in the arm looked more like an arrow ">" and vertical bar "|", in a lot of fonts this combination "I<" would look like a K, but the leg piece, which I didn't see before, really leave no doubt that this was meant as KEK. Thanks for sharing I guess. ;p

 

[Tunavi]

I don't even know what kek is. I'm not surprised if most of bungie didn't either

 

[Vigilant Gambit]

Perhaps read the paragraph after that?

That part is irrelevant. You simply don't care about the ramifications of the symbols you use.

If some of you don't hear of anyone being fired at Bungie will you accept their patch, apology and statement of no intent or are you only going to be happy if someones linkedin gets updated to employed at Bungie from 20xx to 2017?

Nazis pay attention, so when something like this happens, the response is important. Nazism and its symbols are taboo, so when something is outed as pro-Nazi, it's completely reasonable, even if you are pro-Nazi, for that symbol to be removed, due to these taboos currently being what they are.

But the imagery getting into the game, getting released, and then ending up in the news, is a "win" for them regardless of the response. So that response needs to be swift and decisive. If someone gets fired over it, it will discourage any Nazis following the story far more than the simple removal would.

What if a the artist who designed the logo was black?

Also I feel like we are giving the people behind all this ws too much power by acknowledging what they splur out and adapt to it.
It's good things like this are pointed out, don't get me wrong, but some comments in this thread are blown out of proportion...

The identity and affiliations of whoever put that shit in the game are irrelevant. A problem is a problem.

You have to look at the big picture, though - the guy beating up black folks in Charlotsville was probably drawing swastikas in his notebook 5-10 years ago. That shit does matter, even if it doesn't have immediate consequences.

Exactly. This shit has to be nipped in the bud.

This is not about whether the Kekistan flag "offends" people. A big penis on Destiny armor could also "offend" people. This is about whether Bungie signal-boosted a white supremacist calling card to millions of players. I don't care whether people are offended. I do care about not giving aid or comfort to white supremacists.

Edit - Also, please read up on what lynch mobs are. Hyperbole almost always undercuts your argument.

Thank you.

Wut?

He's referencing the fact that the overall downplaying of fascist bullshit in America is following the same pattern that was followed in Germany leading up to WWII. Hitler only had about 50 followers when he started, people thought fascism was a joke/too unpopular to do anything, and nobody took it seriously until it was too late.

While I am sure it is futile to try to give you some perspective, I will join others in trying.

Thank you very much.

Yeah I know, I just posted that topkek thing on the last page for the active troll.

Speaking of the flag, though, let's compare what is different for any of the "this is literally the flag" posts

Again, I need to point out that this sort of protective analysis is very rarely afforded to those who are victims of white supremacy.

Don't be ridiculous. No one is saying you should stop doing the OK sign, using the letters "kek", or play Destiny 2 just because white supremacists are doing it. Just to be aware on why people who rep the sole call "kekistan" flag are using these signals as a way to be innocuous to the normal eye but in reality lies an inside joke of hate.

I am definitely saying that if you continue to knowingly use the ok hand sign and kek, you are a part of the problem.

 

[Yearsoflurking]

The thing is that that armor didn’t match the other pieces with the same name AT ALL. So there is no question it was intentional.

Wow this is disgusting