Support NeoGAF

[Crazymoogle]

Similar to how they are working on getting a fingerprint reader under the screen, do we think eventually they'll be able to put all the stuff in the "notch" under the screen?

Unlikely, because the screen is emitting light; makes for a lot of trouble getting things like a light sensor and cameras to work since they rely entirely on capturing or measuring light in general. OLED let's you turn the pixels off, but then you're basically trying to take a picture with a blindfold on it. Apple actually has a patent for this - from 2009 - but obviously taking high quality pictures it's a challenge from behind a high density pixel array.

Long term the best route forward is a smaller sensor package.

 

[emag]

I know Apple talked about how this was a design for the next ten years of iPhone, but I would be shocked if the 2020 iPhone still had the same (or similar) notch.

The 2007 iPhone screen layout survived until 2013, when it was elongated to 16:9 (although the resolution was doubled in both directions with the 4 in 2011).

 

[nhlducks35]

"The starting price of the new flagship iPhone X is about 50% more than the $650 starting price of last year's iPhone 7 [but] the components cost an estimated $581, up from $248 for components in the iPhone 7, according to Susquehanna International Group. The gap suggests Apple's profit margins on the new device are slimmer than on existing lines."

https://9to5mac.com/2017/09/18/iphone-x-costs-profit/

 

[marc^o^]

One of the better hands on videos of the iPhone X that went under the radar:
https://www.facebook.com/RichOnTech/videos/1848473108503733/

I'm still on the fence, my 6S Plus is still a god tier phone after 2 years.

But there's no denying I would love my phone to be as fast as this beast. I use my iPhone 100 times a day. To be precise I use an app called Instant - it tracks my phone usage - and I spend an average of 300 minutes on my phone per day.

So I would save a lot of time with a snappier iPhone, It would remove the little annoyance I have each time there's a micro slugglish animation or loading. And of course looking at the incredible screen and piece of engineering, the X would probably make me happier, if just a bit, several hours per day.

Sure it's a big amount of money, but this video makes me desire it and find rational reasons to go for it. Thanks for sharing

 

[Oxn]

Anyone aware of any complication between constantly switching sims from one phone to the next.

I ordered an 8+, which i plan to use during the colder seasons, but i also want to use an SE during the summer months with shorts seasons, and i will be buying that off-contract.

 

[sc0la]

I've decided my biggest problem with the notch is that it breaks symmetry in landscape. I might do a mock up where the notch is smaller but on both the top and bottom. I have a feeling it will fix some of my aesthetic issues (not that it wouldn't present other new usability and design issues).

Unlikely, because the screen is emitting light; makes for a lot of trouble getting things like a light sensor and cameras to work since they rely entirely on capturing or measuring light in general. OLED let's you turn the pixels off, but then you're basically trying to take a picture with a blindfold on it. Apple actually has a patent for this - from 2009 - but obviously taking high quality pictures it's a challenge from behind a high density pixel array.

Long term the best route forward is a smaller sensor package.

This is why my smaller symmetric double notches wouldn't work. The sensor array is large so the notch can't be any smaller.

 

[Ninja Dom]

So do Touch ID based apps automatically turn into Face ID apps or does the developer need to adapt their apps?

 

[mrklaw]

How is anyone feeling about Apple's Leather Folio for the iPhone X?

That's a first. In a way it feels wrong. Weird to take pictures with, hard to put on a car holder, etc. On the other hand it's more complete protection, it's official, it can double as a wallet.

Anyone inclined to it?

Not a fan but the wallet style case is very popular - I see it everywhere

 

[Wrestlemania]

So do Touch ID based apps automatically turn into Face ID apps or does the developer need to adapt their apps?

No change required. They call on a system level API for authentication - iOS will just use FaceID instead.

 

[Zaph]

No change required. They call on a system level API for authentication - iOS will just use FaceID instead.

Do we have any official confirmation from Apple wrt App Store guidelines here?

The API currently allows developers to distinguish between the biometry method available, so I fear, without Apple drawing a clear line in the sand, financial and banking apps may veto FaceID until they've independently evaluated the security.

 

[Dartastic]

She should get the X if she likes the look and the experience they are pitching. She should get the 8 if she likes the current experience more. It's opinion. I do not care about making emojis talk and I find Touch ID to be convenient. #PlusTrain

Thanks for all the replies. She's definitely making the right decision. Touch ID is important to me too. Feels like Apple fucked this up by not being able to get it working.

 

[Camper Van Beethoven]

It’s so weird to me people speak in absolutes about Touch ID being better than Face ID. I’m at least going to wait to try it myself first.

 

[LyleLanley]

No change required. They call on a system level API for authentication - iOS will just use FaceID instead.

I'm trying to think if this could potentially be a bad thing. For apps that launched with TouchID logins you could at least control if you wanted to unlock the app, now it'll just unlock as soon you open the app.

 

[marc^o^]

Thanks for all the replies. She's definitely making the right decision. Touch ID is important to me too. Feels like Apple fucked this up by not being able to get it working.

Give Face ID a chance, it will be awesome if it works, and it seems to work.

Remember this about Touch ID:
http://uproxx.com/technology/apples-touch-id-is-hilariously-useless/

So many people called it a gimmick back then, yet Apple nailed it. Something tells me it's history repeating itself.

 

[robotrock]

uhhhh sometimes I feel like my home button is caked in grease and Touch ID will refuse to scan my finger. so face ID will probably fix that

 

[Dartastic]

Give Face ID a chance, it will be awesome if it works, and it seems to work.

Remember this about Touch ID:
http://uproxx.com/technology/apples-touch-id-is-hilariously-useless/

So many people called it a gimmick back then, yet Apple nailed it. Something tells me it's history repeating itself.

Not up to me to be honest, but honestly it fucking up like it did in the keynote didn't inspire confidence. Certainly not for her. Maybe I'll be in on the next one but saving the money is a better decision for her. My 6 is still just fine.

 

[Kyoufu]

Not up to me to be honest, but honestly it fucking up like it did in the keynote didn't inspire confidence. Certainly not for her. Maybe I'll be in on the next one but saving the money is a better decision for her. My 6 is still just fine.

It didn't mess up in the keynote.

 

[Majine]

I found myself for a second justifying upgrading from iPhone 7 as "It's a 3 generation jump"...

I need help.

 

[LyleLanley]

Not up to me to be honest, but honestly it fucking up like it did in the keynote didn't inspire confidence. Certainly not for her. Maybe I'll be in on the next one but saving the money is a better decision for her. My 6 is still just fine.

It was already revealed that the fuck up was because it tried to authenticate other people who handled the phone so it wasn't actually a fuck up.

 

[Quonny]

Give Face ID a chance, it will be awesome if it works, and it seems to work.

Remember this about Touch ID:
http://uproxx.com/technology/apples-touch-id-is-hilariously-useless/

So many people called it a gimmick back then, yet Apple nailed it. Something tells me it's history repeating itself.

I have no doubt Face ID will work. It works amazingly well on my Surface Book.

I just don't want it to be the primary/only quick way to unlock my phone. For example, my phone is on my desk right now. I can clearly see my notifications, but if I want to unlock it with TouchID, I just slide my finger and unlock it. If I want to unlock it with FaceID, I have to pick it up and stare at it. Is it a dealbreaker? Not really. But it is annoying.

 

[a916]

Similar to how they are working on getting a fingerprint reader under the screen, do we think eventually they'll be able to put all the stuff in the "notch" under the screen?

Yeah I'm curious about this, is this even possible?

 

[mrklaw]

It was already revealed that the fuck up was because it tried to authenticate other people who handled the phone so it wasn't actually a fuck up.

A quick way to head off that would have been to give more hands on time for some each sites - maybe let them enrol themselves in FaceID

 

[LyleLanley]

A quick way to head off that would have been to give more hands on time for some each sites - maybe let them enrol themselves in FaceID

It wasn't using the faces of reporters but the videos I saw showed FaceID working pretty well.

 

[mrklaw]

I have no doubt Face ID will work. It works amazingly well on my Surface Book.

I just don't want it to be the primary/only quick way to unlock my phone. For example, my phone is on my desk right now. I can clearly see my notifications, but if I want to unlock it with TouchID, I just slide my finger and unlock it. If I want to unlock it with FaceID, I have to pick it up and stare at it. Is it a dealbreaker? Not really. But it is annoying.

Dry run it - those of you that often unlock their phone on a desk to check notifications etc - put the phone where it normally is and open the selfie camera. Can it see your face without you having to lean over or move the phone?

I have an Apple Watch so notifications are ok but I could see that being frustrating. No, it isn't the end of the world and is definitely a first world problem, but even a small decrease in ease of use will be amplified if it happens a lot

 

[jts]

Ah yes, that's one unintended advantage Touch ID had, you could give access up to 5 different people.

Useful between couples, and sometimes kids.

And sometimes in the business context. I was involved in a project that involved giving access to an the iPad to different employees via Touch ID. Although one of them had to have the passcode anyway.

I guess folks can just share the passcode henceforth.

 

[Bob Dobalina]

I have no doubt Face ID will work. It works amazingly well on my Surface Book.

I just don't want it to be the primary/only quick way to unlock my phone. For example, my phone is on my desk right now. I can clearly see my notifications, but if I want to unlock it with TouchID, I just slide my finger and unlock it. If I want to unlock it with FaceID, I have to pick it up and stare at it. Is it a dealbreaker? Not really. But it is annoying.

Got to see this phone in action over the weekend, and I'm afraid to say it works just as you described.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Hm, I wonder if there will be an option to unlock with your Apple Watch on the X like they do with Macbooks.

 

[marc^o^]

I have no doubt Face ID will work. It works amazingly well on my Surface Book.

I just don't want it to be the primary/only quick way to unlock my phone. For example, my phone is on my desk right now. I can clearly see my notifications, but if I want to unlock it with TouchID, I just slide my finger and unlock it. If I want to unlock it with FaceID, I have to pick it up and stare at it. Is it a dealbreaker? Not really. But it is annoying.

You’ll still see notifications, and orient the X to your face if you want to unlock it: more a change of habit than an annoying thing.

Meanwhile you'll gain the ability to unlock the X while it's raining, or while you're cooking - and your thumb is wet. Is it ground breaking? Not really. But it is pleasing.

 

[BuggyDClown]

I may skip this gen for the first time since my first iPhone the iPhone 4.

The camera (other than front, barely is improved.) the processing seems better, but that's not entirely exciting. The performance jumps are negligible with the 7 plus I have never feeling pushed or stressed.

I feel like it may be best to skip this iteration and go in on the X2. I'm really disappointed in the gains on the camera. I was hoping for a faster lens than we got on the telephoto, and more improvements on the standard lens. Also the megapixel sensor size is the same. So almost all of the camera improvements come for the processor.

I'd rather wait until next year and get the faster processor and hopefully a more noticeable camera system improvement.

 

[Kiraly]

Why did Apple not incorporate TouchID in the power button? Sony has had it for years. Blegh. Fingerprint scanner anywhere would have been better than no fingerprint scanner.

 

[Your Entertainer]

I may skip this gen for the first time since my first iPhone the iPhone 4.

The camera (other than front, barely is improved.) the processing seems better, but that's not entirely exciting. The performance jumps are negligible with the 7 plus I have never feeling pushed or stressed.

I feel like it may be best to skip this iteration and go in on the X2. I'm really disappointed in the gains on the camera. I was hoping for a faster lens than we got on the telephoto, and more improvements on the standard lens. Also the megapixel sensor size is the same. So almost all of the camera improvements come for the processor.

I'd rather wait until next year and get the faster processor and hopefully a more noticeable camera system improvement.

I’m strongly leaning towards next years X.

- Better processor
- Improved cameras
- Modest screen improvements

Most important two being:
- Improved camera system leading to better AR and Face ID
- Easier to get (and earlier)

I could see them making radical gains in the new camera/sensor setup during its nascency.

 

[Hattori]

for the people who are to busy to pick up their phone for a second to unlock it, they have a product for you...the iPhone 8

 

[Jill Sandwich]

I'm intrigued to see at how much of an angle the phone can be to use Face ID. It doesn't look like you have to pick your phone up to unlock it, judging by the woman using it by the poolside in the promo.

 

[killertofu]

One of the better hands on videos of the iPhone X that went under the radar:
https://www.facebook.com/RichOnTech/videos/1848473108503733/

Something about how long this video was without a cut made the device look *really* attractive to me for some reason.

Fuck now I want one

 

[emag]

Why did Apple not incorporate TouchID in the power button? Sony has had it for years. Blegh. Fingerprint scanner anywhere would have been better than no fingerprint scanner.

Because Apple loves to entirely drop legacy options when a "better" alternative comes around, even if there are corner cases for which the legacy option would be preferred. See old ports->USB/firewire, disk drives, 3.5 mm headphone jack, etc.

 

[Link]

I'm trying to think if this could potentially be a bad thing. For apps that launched with TouchID logins you could at least control if you wanted to unlock the app, now it'll just unlock as soon you open the app.

I suppose they could have a button that will activate Face ID.

 

[Red]

Something about how long this video was without a cut made the device look *really* attractive to me for some reason.

Fuck now I want one

Because it looks great.

 

[DOWN]

Glad to hear the glass back is way more grippy. Makes it less scary to use without a case than previous models.

 

[mrklaw]

Glad to hear the glass back is way more grippy. Makes it less scary to use without a case than previous models.

Same. Almost a reason to upgrade from 6/6s/7

 

[Damon]

Something about how long this video was without a cut made the device look *really* attractive to me for some reason.

Fuck now I want one

Bingo.

Watched it several times, admiring the iPhone X.

 

[Lord Error]

It didn't mess up in the keynote.

I believe it did fail to unlock twice when he was looking into the phone, before it presented the "please enter the passcode" message. So either it did fail, or his face wasn't registered on that phone.

 

[The Futurist]

It's so weird to me people speak in absolutes about Touch ID being better than Face ID. I'm at least going to wait to try it myself first.

If one solution works in more use cases than another, then it is a better solution.

- They've already said it can have difficulty with the sun at your back.
- You have to look directly at the sensor to unlock.
- Paying with your phone requires you to look directly at your phone and then press a button on the side.

Touch ID is pretty much perfect.

Face ID is compromised solution from the start.

Even if it works as well as touch ID in terms of response time (which I don't think it will), it will never be as convenient as simply placing your finger on the phone. Like when it's on your desk or literally any time it's not already pointed directly at your face.

The frustrating thing about this is that people are willing to inconvenience themselves and change the way they use their device simply because it's Apple. That's how bad it's gotten.

 

[reKon]

If one solution works in more use cases than another, then it is a better solution.

- They've already said it can have difficulty with the sun at your back.
- You have to look directly at the sensor to unlock.
- Paying with your phone requires you to look directly at your phone and then press a button on the side.

Touch ID is pretty much perfect.

Face ID is compromised solution from the start.

Even if it works as well as touch ID in terms of response time (which I don't think it will), it will never be as convenient as simply placing your finger on the phone. Like when it's on your desk or literally any time it's not already pointed directly at your face.

The frustrating thing about this is that people are willing to inconvenience themselves and change the way they use their device simply because it's Apple. That's how bad it's gotten.

thank you

 

[Lord Error]

Touch ID is pretty much perfect.

Touch ID isn't completely perfect. It fails when your hands are even slightly wet. Obviously also it doesn't work with the gloves, so faceid should be more user friendly during the winter.

I do think that for payment scenarios, fingerprint authorization makes more sense, and it just seems less cumbersome overall.

 

[Wrestlemania]

If one solution works in more use cases than another, then it is a better solution.

- They've already said it can have difficulty with the sun at your back.
- You have to look directly at the sensor to unlock.
- Paying with your phone requires you to look directly at your phone and then press a button on the side.

Touch ID is pretty much perfect.

Face ID is compromised solution from the start.

Even if it works as well as touch ID in terms of response time (which I don't think it will), it will never be as convenient as simply placing your finger on the phone. Like when it's on your desk or literally any time it's not already pointed directly at your face.

The frustrating thing about this is that people are willing to inconvenience themselves and change the way they use their device simply because it's Apple. That's how bad it's gotten.

TouchID doesn't work if I have gloves on or if my hands are a bit wet. Sometimes it just doesn't respond for no apparent reason. It's great, but it's far from perfect, and I still find myself typing my passcode relatively frequently. I expect to have to do the same with FaceID.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

If one solution works in more use cases than another, then it is a better solution.

- They've already said it can have difficulty with the sun at your back.
- You have to look directly at the sensor to unlock.
- Paying with your phone requires you to look directly at your phone and then press a button on the side.

Touch ID is pretty much perfect.

Face ID is compromised solution from the start.

Even if it works as well as touch ID in terms of response time (which I don't think it will), it will never be as convenient as simply placing your finger on the phone. Like when it's on your desk or literally any time it's not already pointed directly at your face.

The frustrating thing about this is that people are willing to inconvenience themselves and change the way they use their device simply because it's Apple. That's how bad it's gotten.

I don't disagree with most of what you said, but whether it's an inconvenience or not depends on the person, it isn't just so because you said it. I used a Galaxy S8 for a few months and vastly preferred their new face unlock over the thumb reader.

I get the want for touch ID, and it'd be great if next year they get it in, but not everyone is going to be so inconvenienced because they have to use their face.

 

[kaskade]

I just watched that video with the animojis and they are actually pretty crazy. I mean they’re goofy but it’s basically facial capture in your phone. I didn’t realize how accurate they actually were. I figured it’d be make a face and we’ll pick from a few different emotions.

 

[The Futurist]

Ok, that's fair.

Touch ID is not perfect, but it's really really good.

This system even from the start seems like it's going to be worse. It asks more of the user. That is a failure.

For example. Right now my phone is on my desk to my right. I constantly unlock it and check messages and see notifications without picking it up. I'm not looking directly at it and I don't have to pick it up. I don't have to give it my full attention every single time I want to see what's going on.

 

[mrklaw]

If one solution works in more use cases than another, then it is a better solution.

- They've already said it can have difficulty with the sun at your back.
- You have to look directly at the sensor to unlock.
- Paying with your phone requires you to look directly at your phone and then press a button on the side.

Touch ID is pretty much perfect.

Face ID is compromised solution from the start.

Even if it works as well as touch ID in terms of response time (which I don't think it will), it will never be as convenient as simply placing your finger on the phone. Like when it's on your desk or literally any time it's not already pointed directly at your face.

The frustrating thing about this is that people are willing to inconvenience themselves and change the way they use their device simply because it's Apple. That's how bad it's gotten.

The frustrating thing about this is that people are already judging exactly how it will or won’t work even though almost nobody has seen it working for themselves, and nobody except Apple employees has a face registered.


I do agree it seems like it’ll be more frictional (if that’s a term) than TouchID but perhaps it’ll be fine. Perhaps we'll adapt.

 

[Lord Error]

Ok, that's fair.

Touch ID is not perfect, but it's really really good.

This system even from the start seems like it's going to be worse. It asks more of the user. That is a failure.

It asks more from your when your phone is at your desk or pointed away from you, but I think it asks less of you when you're actually holding your phone (getting it out of the pocket etc. It unlocks without you having to do anything in that case.