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Armband-wearing Nazi roams Seattle instigating, gets KOed, removes armband and leaves

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they are already a Nazi. they will continue to be afterward regardless if cops were called or they were punched.

It would be nice if the punch made them dig deep to why someone was moved to violently KO them for what they are doing and representing. I still maintain the view that coming out of these abhorrent world views is like coming out of a dream, as long as you are dreaming you are unaware of how far gone you are, but the second you catch wind of it is the moment you can change. It only comes through serious self reflection, and maybe what this guy when though today will lead to that. It is all I can hope for as it seems you have to be dreaming to think you should wear a swastika around anymore.
 

JustenP88

I earned 100 Gamerscore™ for collecting 300 widgets and thereby created Trump's America
It's so fucking stupid to quote MLK on non-violence in this thread when the Birmingham jail letter is a thing that exists.
 
Martin Luther King wouldn't have gotten anywhere without Malcolm X as a counterbalance.

People didn't like King in his time as well, only after he died.

6082764673_ced897c532.jpg
 

Neith

Banned
You have no more insight into his motivations than anyone else here, but you sound like you desperately need it to be mental illness.

Right. So who the fuck cares if it is mental illness? Someone around you or yourself needs to seek help and get fixed. You can't just wear Nazi propaganda out in public like this. You can't just excuse all of your actions due to mental illness. Murderers try this shit all the time.

Take this for example: if you were to do this same thing in the 1950s at a bar with a bunch of white people the SAME FUCKING THING would have happened. Nobody fucking likes Nazis except Nazis.

Also, MLK Jr did NOT stop all violence, he was just against it becoming the main tunnel of resistance, which was indeed the right way to do things. I highly doubt King would have batted an eye at this.
 
If this keeps happening as it does, shouldnt Americans be trying to make this a crime?

Or are we just going to keep playing wack-a-mole with them until the president is out of the white house?
 

Foggy

Member
Look at it this way also: if a Nazi makes it entirely clear from their words and actions that they want you to do something, why would you do exactly that thing? Make no mistake, this is all about propagating the myth of the violent left, and I'd be shocked if that isn't already being pushed in all the usual places, complete with pictures of a poor traumatised victim wearing a grand total of zero swastikas. You instigate, get a reaction, and the other guy can be painted as the villain.

Oh dear, we might just develop a sour rapport with Nazis. Oh heavens that just won't do.

Oh goodness wait, someone who isn't a flag-waving Nazi might develop resentful feelings and want to support or even join a group that supports ethnic cleansing. Heavens me, that person could have been an ally!
 

M.J. Doja

Banned
It's great!
If I had suggestions...
I'd say there should be a way to Bish that gif up...
Wasted meme is cool too also.

Has to be done correctly though, with the screen graying out and the slowdown and the correct font.

It MUST to be done though...
 
Friendly reminder that a Nazi "peacefully exercising his free speech rights" is trying to lawfully subjugate and exterminate millions of people.

He should consider himself fortunate he only got punched. These people should be considered terrorists like ISIS or the KKK.
 
If this keeps happening as it does, shouldnt Americans be trying to make this a crime?

Or are we just going to keep playing wack-a-mole with them until the president is out of the white house?

Yeah it's only gonna get worse. And online mob justice always backfires pretty badly at times

They should nip this in the bud and start arresting people as being violent aggressors for wearing swastikas and shit.
 

Neith

Banned
I just cannot get enough of the fucking straight hand like no no sir let me belittle and yell at people hold on while I continue...

Fucking dude got what he deserved.

Do people forget this guy was up in people's faces before this screaming?
 
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate. So it goes. Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." (Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.)
Like clockwork :)
 

Mael

Member
Has to be done correctly though, with the screen graying out and the slowdown and the correct font.

It MUST to be done though...

Oh yeah agreed, this really needs to happen.
It needs to be done so that you can clearly hear the audio despite being a gif.
 

Neith

Banned
Like clockwork :)

It's not really violence though. This fuck wasn't even protecting his face knowing he was full well instigating a punch out.

MLK's quote is taken out of context in that he is talking about major pathways of resistance becoming centered around violence.

I guarantee MLK would see this maybe say oh wow and move on. It's one fucking dude. This is not a war of violence atm.
 

Aske

Member
Funny thing is they will try to arrest the guy that punch him faster than the guys that beat the black guy down and almost killed him in Charlottesville

I think this is key when discussing the ethics of this punch. This response to an out, proud, and preaching Nazi did not occur in a vacuum.

I'll say that it's a false assumption to believe all Nazis are beyond help, since many of them join groups like this for the same reasons anyone joins a gang: fear and ignorance. I'd also say it's more reasonable to question the mental health of lone individuals doing things that will get them punched, shot, or arrested in short order than it is to assume a rally, protest, or group activity is the result of anything but reasoned ideology.

But those who condemn the guy who punched the Nazi for not exhibiting more restraint, or for not attempting to deal with the situation through established legal channels, or who are trying to impose idealistic "thou shalt not punch" commandments from armchairs atop ivory towers on those who want to buy the guy a beer, only illustrate how out of touch they are with the reality of life in the states. Especially right now.

I'm never going to disagree with people advocating measured, non-violent responses to the ills of society from the top down, but I feel that to negatively judge those who take a more direct approach like this is thoroughly unreasonable.

No one looked the least bit mentality unstable in the video, and no, the black swastika in a white circle on a red armband does not denote anything but an ideology whose core tenet is that of racial discrimination. Punching a man wearing that symbol is no different to punching a man who casually uses racial, homophobic, or misogynistic slurs.

I will defend to the death people's legal right to say things I don't like, but I also want to live in a society in which the social response is to shut people down when they choose to roll the dice and spew their hate speech unbidden at strangers in public.
 
Well, throwing out any option of modhood down the trash shoot, I actually concur with Iapetus that violence can never be considered justified 'just because'. I know that's not something US people like to hear, but that is how things work in Europe. No vigilante justice, no mob justice, only justice by law will stand.

The trade-off is that we have hate speech laws, and far stricter approaches to anything resembling neo-nazi rallies, and violence used by any individual regardless of their motivation. Punching people because you don't like them is something that cannot be avoided, but the potential medical costs resulting from it (and if brain damage does occur, this result can be a vast array of negative outcomes) are on the aggressor.
Even military police, despite having a state-granted sanction on applying a certain degree of violence, are held to standards of only using what is necessary. Europe isn't the US. If a cop fucks up by shooting somebody, that cop is going to jail until a court has sorted it out. That being a court independent of what the state wants, meaning states and their monopoly on violence are kept in check. This division of power is held to be solid in Europe, but only exist theoretically in the US, as the Trump presidency has increasingly demonstrated on all ends.

So yeah, when Iapetus is talking about a "ideological position", he's referring to privately held beliefs that do not directly violate the law or cause harm to others as understood in the EU. So he's not talking about this guy or some Charlottesville rally guy, as those people would find themselves being swept up by MP and in jail by the end of the day.
Because justice is a matter for laws that we've all agreed on, not some vigilante or mob.

I know that this sentiment gets lost in translation, but perhaps that is why you find yourselves where you are now to begin with. Instead of quoting Hannah Arendt and others on the existential philosophy and banality of evil, perhaps you should read them and how it effected actual policy and government.

I actually thought the same thing when the OP of this thread started with a Twitter account specifically targeting an individual. It may feel satisfying, but it's still targeted assault. Also, making potential martyrs out of people has literally never paid off. Imagine if his landing had been unfortunate, and how media reactions would have played out. If you want us to cheer for your narrowly avoided martyr caused by amateurs at politics...
 

ahoyhoy

Unconfirmed Member
There are ways to not tolerate intolerancy without resorting to mob justice.

We are not defending that his point of views are valid.
We are not defending that he should parade the Swastika freely
We are not defending that he should have a voice or be heard.

Most people are not against the Nazi scum getting what he deserved. We just wish it was the law enforcement, not random citizens.

I suppose the argument is that we can't wait for the legal system to help prevent Nazis from wandering the streets and shouting propaganda with impunity. Should such things be shown as without any real consequence long enough, they might seem acceptable.
 

Neith

Banned
I think this is key when discussing the ethics of this punch. This response to an out, proud, and preaching Nazi did not occur in a vacuum.

I'll say that it's a false assumption to believe all Nazis are beyond help, since many of them join groups like this for the same reasons anyone joins a gang: fear and ignorance. I'd also say it's more reasonable to question the mental health of lone individuals doing things that will get them punched, shot, or arrested in short order than it is to assume a rally, protest, or group activity is the result of anything but reasoned ideology.

But those who condemn the guy who punched the Nazi for not exhibiting more restraint, or for not attempting to deal with the situation through established legal channels, or who are trying to impose idealistic "thou shalt not punch" commandments from armchairs atop ivory towers on those who want to buy the guy a beer, only illustrate how out of touch they are with the reality of life in the states. Especially right now.

I'm never going to disagree with people advocating measured, non-violent responses to the ills of society from the top down, but I feel that to negatively judge those who take a more direct approach like this is thoroughly unreasonable.

No one looked the least bit mentality unstable in the video, and no, the black swastika in a white circle on a red armband does not denote anything but an ideology whose core tenet is that of racial discrimination. Punching a man wearing that symbol is no different to punching a man who casually uses racial, homophobic, or misogynistic slurs.

I will defend to the death people's legal right to say things I don't like, but I also want to live in a society in which the social response is to shut people down when they choose to roll the dice and spew their hate speech unbidden at strangers in public.

This is a very good post. While the man could have died, he had full control of his body and faculties. He chose to instigate people in this way full well knowing that the outcome could be a punch or worse to the face.

In that way he knew what was coming, or at least he should have.
 
Well, throwing out any option of modhood down the line, I actually concur with Iapetus that violence can never be considered justified 'just because'. I know that's not something US people like to hear, but that is how things work in Europe. No vigilante justice, no mob justice, only justice by law will stand.

As soon as that's something minorities can count on, we'll stop punching Nazis.
 

Nekofrog

Banned
The biggest mistake the greatest generation made in the 40s was waiting too long before finally deciding to commit to obliterating Nazis the first time. Our generation can never let it get to that point again, even if that means stamping that white fragility out with our peaceful loving fists.
 
I hope they patch the next Wolfenstein game so that you shoot rainbows out of love cannons at the Nazis and it converts them into liberals and they run around converting other Nazis with their love cannons. Instead of a melee attack with a knife or something the character will shout some words of wisdom to help them understand why they are wrong. If we keep going down this path of hate then we are all going to lose.
👲👮👦👷👳🐸❤
 
Friendly reminder that a Nazi "peacefully exercising his free speech rights" is trying to lawfully subjugate and exterminate millions of people.

He should consider himself fortunate he only got punched. These people should be considered terrorists like ISIS or the KKK.

I'm not sure about that but tolerance is a two way street. If you preach and act against it in society don't go expecting society to give it back in return.
 

Neith

Banned
Honestly, in this case, even risking death, this guy got what he deserved. A punch to the face causing death would have been basically a chance problem not in connection to what the punch was presumably trying to do, which was just shut him the fuck up and teach him a lesson.
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
This video has been removed for violating YouTube's policy on harassment and bullying.

ecWfzKS.png


That's ironic.

Yeah I found that fucking hilariously sad given the shit they decide they want to keep. Fuck YouTube and fuck Google. Literally showing more sympathy for a nazi fuck than anything else.
 
If people are quick to label this mental illness, then every Trump supporter believing in lies and fake news is mentally ill.

And as "fun" as that may be to believe, it can't possibly be the truth but it is a big issue. I live and work in a blue collar environment so I see the Trump signs and bigotry and bullshit. How do you get rid of it? I wish I knew the answer.
 

ash321

Member
Well what do you think he was trying to achieve?

Racists are cowards, they go around in packs, they hide behind memes or political parties. That was not the case here.

He likely came very close to being killed. People die from punches like that all the time. That not only kills this guy, but ruins the life of the person who punched him, has flow on effects to the people watching and likely causes problems for the people inciting violence in twitter, if only mental anguish.

And all people can say is "good! Or you are a nazi defending nazis!". There is more to something like this then you can see on the surface. We should always find the time to know the full story before reacting as executioners.

This is not defending a nazi. This is attacking vigilantes, mostly for their own good.



Life is not a forum flamewar. You might be right, but the point is you actually have no idea what led him to do this.
Okay, let play your game then.

How do you know the guy that the "Nazi" insult doesn't have mental illness ??

What happen to him if the KO guy doesn't show up and knock the "Nazi" out ? What of him is the one with suicidal thought (who wouldn't be in this fucking climate, when someone punch a Nazi. People raise up and scream "his free speech", "MLK said this", ...)

What if he kill himself ?

We playing the what if game so maybe I'll try another one.

What if the KO guy is the one with mental illness, with suicidal thought, so much that if he can't punch the Nazi in front of him, he can't live with himself anymore and will kill himself. What then ?

What if this is a netting of people with suicidal thought and they try to kill each other, everything is a play. The Nazi guy supposed to show up dressing like a Nazi just to be punch and try to die .... Blah blah

In short, you don't even care about the guy who just got throw a fucking banana in the face. But you sure are hungry to find a way to defend a fucker who wear a Nazi symbol with your "what if".
 

Quixzlizx

Member
Well, throwing out any option of modhood down the trash shoot, I actually concur with Iapetus that violence can never be considered justified 'just because'. I know that's not something US people like to hear, but that is how things work in Europe. No vigilante justice, no mob justice, only justice by law will stand.

I know that when I want to know how to deal with Nazis before they become an existential threat, the first person I'm going to turn to is a condescending European.
 
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