If someone with an ISIS armband was screaming on the street corner about beheading people then we'd all be happy about him getting punched in the face.
If someone went into a southern Baptist church and started punching people because of Nazis then we wouldn't support that.
It's not even at all hard to understand.
Do you find it unreasonable?
"Muslims = Nazis" whooooo what a thread
If. You. Say. Only. Violent. Mobs. Can. Stop. Violent. Movements. Then. That. Also. Applies. Here.
BLM around the corner..
This naive and unhelpful stance is how nazi ideology passively spreads. Their views are a deadly threat that has tanked nations. You should treat it as such and that you do not goes in their favor and no one else's.I'm not as eloquent as many others here. I just joined neogaf for the games, maybe I should've stayed away from this thread. I just don't think that violence is the answer, celebrating it is not right, Imo.
White supremacists stick together and gaf is very white. Even white people who don't consider themselves white supremacists are clearly concerned about losing the privilege to enforce their social dominance over others, as evidenced by soooo many posts in this and other like threads. Nazis getting punched shakes white people like nothing else.
lol fucking seriously. It's a damn shame.white supremacist continue random murders of minorities, sometimes on the clock as a LEO, but a nazi gets punched for instigating and provoking and everyone is concerned about the moral fiber of our society.
Virtually no open white supremacists hold office in the USA, even though tens of thousands would like to.
That's actually what I want to know. What should have been their punishment? Germany committed Nazi atrocities for over a decade. If you are guilty for wearing the symbol without taking part in the "violence" what should be your punishment? You said earlier that Nazi should all be wiped from the earth.
I'm not trolling and nor I'm calling you disgusting for not sharing your view about violence so calm down.
#AllWhitePeopleWhite supremacists stick together and gaf is very white. Even white people who don't consider themselves white supremacists are clearly concerned about losing the privilege to enforce their social dominance over others, as evidenced by soooo many posts in this and other like threads. Nazis getting punched shakes white people like nothing else.
I thought nazis were catholic though.So Wong thinks Muslims are equivalent to Nazis, no surprise there lol
LOL. Bye.And here's the thing - the world actually faced that scenario and those random German citizens who went along with the Nazis actually changed their minds and formed a progressive society. Nazis aren't a different species, they didn't arrive here from another planet. They're people who didn't used to be Nazis, and at some point in the future may not be any longer.
I want Nazis "wiped out" but not in the sense that I want the termites under my house "wiped out." I want them to stop being Nazis. And it happens all the time! People change. But suggesting that only mob violence will change their minds is like suggesting that the death of Heather Heyer will end the movement to get rid of Confederate statues. You know, because violence is how you convince people, right? We're all so scared off by her death that we've dropped the cause?
OR did she become a rallying cry? So what the hell do you think is going to happen the first time some dipshit with a tiki torch gets killed, because the fight got out of hand? You honestly think that makes the racists standing around him realize they're wrong?
If you're not talking about killing them in actual military combat, then you have to think in terms of what actually works in terms of how extremists movements are stopped. And they are stopped - that's how we have a functioning society. Here's a hint: it's not violent mobs on the "good" side.
The insinuation in this post is insane. I'm white as fuck, punch all the damn Nazis you can. Don't use the broad brush though.
I would argue Charlottesville demonstrated pretty conclusively the US is not remotely at risk of becoming a candidate for ethnic cleansing, even if it is so fucked up that it elected an incompetent, racist buffoon who was indifferent to what happened. Basically the entire country condemned that shit, even if Trump was limp.
So Wong thinks Muslims are equivalent to Nazis, no surprise there lol
and he said virtually no white supremacists hold office!!
boy, that Cracked sure is a hoot lmao
I want Nazis "wiped out" but not in the sense that I want the termites under my house "wiped out." I want them to stop being Nazis. And it happens all the time! People change. But suggesting that only mob violence will change their minds is like suggesting that the death of Heather Heyer will end the movement to get rid of Confederate statues. You know, because violence is how you convince people, right? We're all so scared off by her death that we've dropped the cause?
The insinuation in this post is insane. I'm white as fuck, punch all the damn Nazis you can. Don't use the broad brush though.
Like how your friend complains about all men/women, you don't need to immediately get defensive and say how much that isn't you.#AllWhitePeople
Watching Nazis get punched is my favorite sport
Let's be really, really clear on one thing. Tolerating these viewpoints is not acceptable. And I'm not just talking about the full blown Nazis, with the swastikas and all. It's the underlying shit that's seen as acceptable that enables it, and the pervasive racism. There is to be no defending it. Just because I believe that reacting with violence is not the answer doesn't mean that isn't one of the very few things that I feel so strongly about.
What is zero tolerance, though? I don't believe they should be left unchallenged. I don't believe they should be left in any doubt that no right minded person supports them. I draw the line this side of punching them in what appears to have been a premeditated attack rather than a heat of the moment reaction to harassment. I completely understand people on the other side of that line, I just can't condone it myself, and I believe that it is the wrong thing to do, morally and practically. Maybe you believe that punching him was a right thing to do. How about shooting him dead? That's another possibility that meets all the criteria people are raising. It's certainly zero tolerance. It's a sign to other Nazis that they aren't safe. Probably a step too far for a lot of people, though. But I bet you'd find some support for it too.
I don't feel sympathy for the Nazi. But at the same time I don't think this sort of attack is the right thing to do, or that it's a constructive thing to do.
And I'm not sure how I feel about my de-modding either; I can understand why it happened, and it saddens me a bit, but hey. Shit happens. Would quite like a chat about it with EviLore. Not to ask for it back - I'd argue against that if he suggested it - but because he's someone whose opinion I respect enough that I want to make sure he understands where I'm actually coming from on this one, and that it maybe isn't quite what first impressions may suggest.
Never going to condone this shit. If you think that violently assaulting someone solely for their political views - however reprehensible they might be - is okay, then you are not one of the good guys. Even the person who may or may not have been responsible for this happening is refusing to identify himself - because he believes that exactly the same will happen to him, at the hands of someone who thinks his political position is unacceptable.
And here's the thing - the world actually faced that scenario and those random German citizens who went along with the Nazis actually changed their minds and formed a progressive society. Nazis aren't a different species, they didn't arrive here from another planet. They're people who didn't used to be Nazis, and at some point in the future may not be any longer.
What insinuation? That white people as a social group are complicit in white supremacy and silently enjoy the benefits and privileges it creates in a deeply unequal society like the US?
Ahh ok. I'll let you live in a bubble where it's ok to broadstroke all people of a certain color then.Like how your friend complains about all men/women, you don't need to immediately get defensive and say how much that isn't you.
What I found horrifying is that it took a good page before people called him out on this. A Muslim is not an automatic ISIS member anymore than a Christian is not an automatic KKK member. This all revolting.
And here's the thing - the world actually faced that scenario and those random German citizens who went along with the Nazis actually changed their minds and formed a progressive society. Nazis aren't a different species, they didn't arrive here from another planet. They're people who didn't used to be Nazis, and at some point in the future may not be any longer.
I want Nazis "wiped out" but not in the sense that I want the termites under my house "wiped out." I want them to stop being Nazis. And it happens all the time! People change. But suggesting that only mob violence will change their minds is like suggesting that the death of Heather Heyer will end the movement to get rid of Confederate statues. You know, because violence is how you convince people, right? We're all so scared off by her death that we've dropped the cause?
OR did she become a rallying cry? So what the hell do you think is going to happen the first time some dipshit with a tiki torch gets killed, because the fight got out of hand? You honestly think that makes the racists standing around him realize they're wrong?
If you're not talking about killing them in actual military combat, then you have to think in terms of what actually works in terms of how extremists movements are stopped. And they are stopped - that's how we have a functioning society. Here's a hint: it's not violent mobs on the "good" side.
"The more our adversaries believe they can obstruct our development by employing a degree of terror that is characteristic of their nature, the more they encourage it. Nietzsche said that a blow which does not kill a strong man only makes him stronger, and his words are confirmed a thousand times. Every blow strengthens our defiance, every persecution reinforces our single-minded determination, and the elements that do fall are good riddance to the movement."
-Adolph Hitler
"Love is the only way to grasp another human being in the innermost core of his personality. No one can become fully aware of the very essence of another human being unless he loves him. By his love he is enabled to see the essential traits and features in the beloved person; and even more, he sees that which is potential in him, which is not yet actualized but yet ought to be actualized. Furthermore, by his love, the loving person enables the beloved person to actualize these potentialities. By making him aware of what he can be and of what he should become, he makes these potentialities come true."
-Viktor E Frankl
I wish it was as simple as just punching the problem away. Or putting a bullet in it. I do not condone acts of hate by choosing to not be violent, I condone those acts because of my indifference.
A. Saying that 99.9% of racist/nationalist movements were put down by peaceful means is straight up fake news. Like that doesn't even make sense. WW2, where a huge amount of Allied soldiers died to fight against Nazism and facism? Are you talking about when the racists/nationalists won, like the Armenian Genocide? Those racist ideologies still exist to this day. How were they 'put down'?You intentionally dodged the point because you know you're wrong. If you truly see these as the same as the guys we fought in World War II, you wouldn't be talking about punches - you'd be talking about bombs. Do you support that? Do you support killing them on sight, as if we were in a combat zone?
If not, then yeah, there apparently is nuance in how we react, because we're just talking about mild physical violence and not drone strikes. When you say, "We always treat Nazis the same!" you're saying something you know isn't true. No, we have never treated hate mongers or extreme right politicians the same as we treat uniformed soldiers in a combat zone.
So now that we've agreed on that, let's talk about how we do want to treat them. But remember that 99.9% of the racist/nationalist movements in the world have been put down by peaceful means - David Duke holds no power because he lost one election after another. It required no war to stop him - just public mockery and people going to the polls. Virtually no open white supremacists hold office in the USA, even though tens of thousands would like to. They run for city council, mayor, governor, and they lose. Not at the hands of armed mobs, but because they just fail to sway public opinion or to get donors.
Sorry if that doesn't satisfy the easy dopamine rush of violence, but the vast majority of time, that's what victory looks like.
A. Saying that 99.9% of racist/nationalist movements were put down by peaceful means is straight up fake news. Like that doesn't even make sense. WW2, where a huge amount of Allied soldiers died to fight against Nazism and facism? Are you talking about when the racists/nationalists won, like the Armenian Genocide? Those racist ideologies still exist to this day. How were they 'put down'?
B. Again the idea of 'peaceful' movements is some nostalgia, no other way about it, atleast as far as I know, in the US. For example, The Stonewall Riots were violent. There are tons of examples throughout history.
C. Are you ignoring Trump and his cohorts of Breitbart fuckers in the damn White House? Are you ignoring the large amounts of Police Chiefs, Sheriffs, individual officers, etc, who are getting away with legit torture and murder? What about the gerrymandering in every single state used to supress the minority vote? No 'open' white supremists, my ass. A volunteer firefighter had to be voted to be removed by vote after saying he'd rather rescue a dog than black people.
"The more our adversaries believe they can obstruct our development by employing a degree of terror that is characteristic of their nature, the more they encourage it. Nietzsche said that a blow which does not kill a strong man only makes him stronger, and his words are confirmed a thousand times. Every blow strengthens our defiance, every persecution reinforces our single-minded determination, and the elements that do fall are good riddance to the movement."
-Adolph Hitler
"Love is the only way to grasp another human being in the innermost core of his personality. No one can become fully aware of the very essence of another human being unless he loves him. By his love he is enabled to see the essential traits and features in the beloved person; and even more, he sees that which is potential in him, which is not yet actualized but yet ought to be actualized. Furthermore, by his love, the loving person enables the beloved person to actualize these potentialities. By making him aware of what he can be and of what he should become, he makes these potentialities come true."
-Viktor E Frankl
I wish it was as simple as just punching the problem away. Or putting a bullet in it. I do not condone acts of hate by choosing to not be violent, I condone those acts because of my indifference.
Because the Nazis of the WWII era actually committed mass murders and went to war to defend their right to it and this is a racist bigot that unless I'm wrong didn't murder anyone. Let's say North America do like Germany and ban the use of the Nazi symbols . If a guy like him starts bullying minorities about and start talking about white supremacy do you beat him up too? That's what I'm trying to understand. Yes let's quote me saying I'm defending Nazis and that I approve the shooting of minorities by cops.
I'm fine with hunting down and giving the long awaited death penalty to Nazi war criminals that escaped justice through hiding around the world. I'm just not sure beating up people for wearing a symbol is a good idea.
If you are going to engage in a fight be ready for what might come back at you. School yard fights are dangerous enough but these Nazis fucks carry around guns. However, standing up to a bully is the only way to get them to back off. Point is, pick your fights carefully and by legally means if possible.I have no issues with it myself. But I don't think I would be strong enough to do it. I was bullied for a long time and always wondered if fighting back would have worked but sometimes when I see shooting from ostracized kids in school I feel sick to my stomach.
Well for one thing saying "Nazis getting punched shakes white people like nothing else" is bullshit. Your overall point is valid yes, but you are still using a broad brush to paint a situation that isn't entirely there, plenty of white people cheering on the knocking out of nazis.
"The more our adversaries believe they can obstruct our development by employing a degree of terror that is characteristic of their nature, the more they encourage it. Nietzsche said that a blow which does not kill a strong man only makes him stronger, and his words are confirmed a thousand times. Every blow strengthens our defiance, every persecution reinforces our single-minded determination, and the elements that do fall are good riddance to the movement."
-Adolph Hitler
"Love is the only way to grasp another human being in the innermost core of his personality. No one can become fully aware of the very essence of another human being unless he loves him. By his love he is enabled to see the essential traits and features in the beloved person; and even more, he sees that which is potential in him, which is not yet actualized but yet ought to be actualized. Furthermore, by his love, the loving person enables the beloved person to actualize these potentialities. By making him aware of what he can be and of what he should become, he makes these potentialities come true."
-Viktor E Frankl
I wish it was as simple as just punching the problem away. Or putting a bullet in it. I do not condone acts of hate by choosing to not be violent, I condone those acts because of my indifference.
"The more our adversaries believe they can obstruct our development by employing a degree of terror that is characteristic of their nature, the more they encourage it. Nietzsche said that a blow which does not kill a strong man only makes him stronger, and his words are confirmed a thousand times. Every blow strengthens our defiance, every persecution reinforces our single-minded determination, and the elements that do fall are good riddance to the movement.
-Adolph Hitler
"Love is the only way to grasp another human being in the innermost core of his personality. No one can become fully aware of the very essence of another human being unless he loves him. By his love he is enabled to see the essential traits and features in the beloved person; and even more, he sees that which is potential in him, which is not yet actualized but yet ought to be actualized. Furthermore, by his love, the loving person enables the beloved person to actualize these potentialities. By making him aware of what he can be and of what he should become, he makes these potentialities come true."
-Viktor E Frankl
I wish it was as simple as just punching the problem away. Or putting a bullet in it. I do not condone acts of hate by choosing to not be violent, I condone those acts because of my indifference.
The only reason Frankl survived the Holocaust is because we slapped the Reich so hard Hitler killed himself. Try again.
Read up on the sociology of how a people can get conditioned for mass killing. They are normal people who slowly become approving of and used to mass killing.I needed a good laugh.
Exactly, he kept them in literal concentration camps (which were his own words!) and was still pardoned. Where is the justice for his victims?? As long as these fucks are in power, Nazis have won, to a certain extent.To add to point C, Trump literally pardoned a racist sheriff who tortured Latinos like me before the dude was even sentenced.
Believe it or not convincing you or anyone else is not my motivation. But expressing my belief is. You don't get to win, you are not going to lose. You either value it or throw it in the rubbish bin.