Persecution of gays and refugees? What?
Yes????
Dude said in an interview that refugees are the scum of the world.
http://exame.abril.com.br/brasil/bolsonaro-chama-refugiados-de-escoria-do-mundo/
Persecution of gays and refugees? What?
I'm not surprised that we find Brazilian fans of him even here, open voice chat on Brazilian servers tell you a lot about the toxicity and racism of the gaming community there. While the country is celebrated worldwide as an example of melting pot, it's one of the most structurally racist country in the world.
The colonization process was entirely different, English settlers in the US came to make a new living and start anew, motived mostly by religion. Spain and Portugal came to exploit and grow their empires. The "everyone for themselves" mentality in all of Latinamerica comes from this, it's even cultural, it is expected people will take advantage of you and you should take advantage of them. Brazilians call this the "jeitinho brasileiro", in Colombia we call it the "papaya", we all think this is unique to our respective countries but it's actually widespread in the whole continent. The result is crippling, endemic corruption with no solution, at least in the short term.
I'm actually surprised thry haven't found anything on Bolsonaro yet, you cannot make it into politics in Brazil without having to bribe someone.
I'm interested in the part about people going to the right and becoming more evangelical.
Why do they believe being conservative is the way to go? Taking the US into consideration, or Canada with Harper, it is usually the conservatives who fuck up the country. I seriously doubt a conservative president will help them; in fact, they will continue stealing money and leave people even more poor and uneducated than before they rose to power.
Yes????
Dude said in an interview that refugees are the scum of the world.
http://exame.abril.com.br/brasil/bolsonaro-chama-refugiados-de-escoria-do-mundo/
Who are racist to whom? I don't know much about Brazilian demography, but I did hear about Brazil still pretty racist. Is it the mainly White Brazilians being racist, or minorities, mixed-race, a light vs darker skin thing etc?
DAMN
Seriously, I didn't even know this.
This is hyperbole. Yeah, he's a homophobe idiot, but we're not even close to this type of situation, even if he wins.
It's not really that hyperbolic, we're right now one of the countries that have more LGBTQ deaths. Now imagine what may happen if someone that condones this practices becomes president. We don't need death squads, we just need the bigots we already have becoming more emboldened to make the situation a lot more dire.I just don't think we're anywhere close to having a death squad for LGBTQ people on Brazil. I understand you being worried about Bolsonaro's election, it's definitely not positive, but an actual death squad just for being trans didn't exist even during the military dictatorship.
I'd say its pretty much thanks to the north winning civil war. I won't say I know a lot about american history, but from what I read the south colonies didn't seem to be that much different to spanish and portuguese colonies, regarding economic practices at least. They were more an exploration type of colony rather than a new place to live type. But it's basically what mantidor said:The more I examine history, the more I find myself more surprised that the US actually succeeded in leveraging their land and resources to become a world superpower than I am the fact that other American states have failed to do the same.
The colonization process was entirely different, English settlers in the US came to make a new living and start anew, motived mostly by religion. Spain and Portugal came to exploit and grow their empires. The "everyone for themselves" mentality in all of Latinamerica comes from this, it's even cultural, it is expected people will take advantage of you and you should take advantage of them. Brazilians call this the "jeitinho brasileiro", in Colombia we call it the "papaya", we all think this is unique to our respective countries but it's actually widespread in the whole continent. The result is crippling, endemic corruption with no solution, at least in the short term.
Well, it's a bit like that but not so much. The thing is that we were always a very catholic country, people here believe in God a lot (in a way we are a lot like the US in this regard I guess) but right now evangelicals are growing quite fast thanks to the "prosperity theology", which assures that you can get rich if God so whishes. So a lot of evangelical churches started spreading to places were the government was not that active, like Favelas, and started spreading their message that if people devoted themselves to God and made their donations constantly they would get the help they need and the money to go live in a better place. The thing is, most of these evangelicals think a lot like american evangelicals, so they also started preaching a lot of americans conservatives ideas, so usually these converted people become a lot more conservatives than when they were catholics.I'm interested in the part about people going to the right and becoming more evangelical.
Why do they believe being conservative is the way to go? Taking the US into consideration, or Canada with Harper, it is usually the conservatives who fuck up the country. I seriously doubt a conservative president will help them; in fact, they will continue stealing money and leave people even more poor and uneducated than before they rose to power.
And do you really believe that? I mean, he has always defended that the government should be more active in the market, he only started with the pro-open market promises when he started thinking about becoming a presidential candidate. His role models are mostly from the military dictatorship, which had an economic view a lot closer to what Dilma believed in than any pro-market politician. He's only catering to the liberal right, because he already has the conservative votes. Secondly, do you really think he'll fight corruption? I can name you a lot of politicians who promised that, who didn't have any corruption scandals on them and what do you know, they were corrupt as fuck. One of those was Collor, the marajá hunter, aka the first impeached president due to a corruption scandal.He said such things in response to other shitty people who were provoking him.
Also his promises as President are to make the market more open and improve security, while fighting corruption.
I'm sure as hell that the way things are *right now* they aren't good.
Basically it's our former president's fault, most of our current economic problems are self made. Dilma believed the government should be present in every part of the economy, deciding about everything. So she decided the government should help big companies that manufactured cars, because maybe they would create more jobs, so she reduced the taxes for the companies that were here and raised the import taxes. Most of the money though became profit for the matrices of companies like Volkswagen and Ford, almost nothing returned as investment. She also decided to use a government bank to favor the creation of big braizlian companies, mostly from people who were friends with politicians. Nowadays most of them are in jail for corruption scandals, like the former richest brazilian Eike Batista, or the company is almost bankrupt, like Oi a telephone company. She decided that our gasoline was too expensive as well, so she did the logical thing and decided to use the state owned company to subsidize oil prices, which made Petrobras become a constantly deficitary oil company which dind't go bankrupt only because the government latter paid the company debts (also, there were a lot of corruption scandals which further damaged the comapny). Dilma also decided our energy prices were too high, so she forced energy companies to lower the price the same year we had one of our worst droughts. Problem is, most of our energy comes from hydroelectric plants, so the prices soon bounced back to the initial price and then they started to go up and up and up as we started to use more and more thermoelectric plants. Dilma also didn't like accountability that much so our former treasury secretary cooked the books and was caught. Multiple times. Basically no one believed the government numbers anymore when she was reelected. Finally, thanks to all of that and a few other things I didn't mention, our inflation grew a lot, from something like 4 or 5% a year to 10%.It would have been nice if the article discussed why the economy is failing.
It talked about everything but that. Kinda frustrating given the premise that the economy (and its subsequent instability leading to high levels of unemployment and extreme wealth distribution) is at the center of the reason for unrest.
What was working so well that stopped working a few years ago? What are Brazil's main exports and have they been impacted by world economics in some way? What is the solution here? Because as the article correctly points out, if people feel some economic optimism, most other things can be dealt with. If people can't feed their children, there will be riots in the street, no matter what government type they have.
And it's no surprise to see a rise of conservativism, religion and nationalism. When people get scared or feel powerless, they fall back to an environment they feel they can have some control or power over. Religion always enables that kind of fear response and allows people feel superior or otherwise part of a winning team, even if they're losing in life.
As a person of color in Brazil, i disagree.I'm not surprised that we find Brazilian fans of him even here, open voice chat on Brazilian servers tell you a lot about the toxicity and racism of the gaming community there. While the country is celebrated worldwide as an example of melting pot, it's one of the most structurally racist country in the world.
BOLSONARO 2018
Brazil's political crisis wasn't something that happened organically. A lot of external agents ran the show behind the curtains. Brazil was getting too big and too influential in the region and the world for USA to allow itCrazy that the BRIC countries that will determine the future political, economic and military might of the world are all becoming nationalistic and jingoistic in a sense. Modi in India, China we've seen what they're saying and doing. Putin and Russia and the annexation of Crimea and fomenting discord and nationalism in other European states. And now Brazilians increasingly also want regimented military rule and not democracy.
Guy is an asshole. But Lula again in 2018 will tear this country apart.
And this is the false choice the polarization is ramming down our throats.
We have Marina Silva or even someone like Joaquim Barbosa if he decides. I don't like them very much, but we have Doria, Ciro Gomes or even Alckmin. There's also the possibility of a party like Novo coming up with a completely new name.
I wish PSOL had a viable name, but they sacrificed themselves for the glory of PT and now the party pretty much doesn't exist anymore.
Lula and Bolsonaro are the literal worst names. Anyone who is not them and we have a chance to start healing from the grasshopper plague that was Dilma Rousseff.
Either of them winning and the country will be 4 years of blind "us vs them" that goes nowhere.
Do you really think Bolsonaro will not tear this country apart? A country with large social movements like MST and MTST, with large influential unions? With a very organized left wing student movement that was capable of occupying thousands of schools and pretty much every university? How will they deal with someone who not only they hate ideologically, but is also impossible to talk or negotiate?
One side will ramp up the violence and the other in return will do the same. Bolsonaro is a death cultist and he will be up against people who spent their entire lives dreaming of fighting a violent revolution. How will that work out?
Gotta say, and I speak for most of the world at this point, democracy is fucking hard
I think it might not be all that surprising; becoming a democracy isn't going to fix corruption and I think a lot of these countries that always had high-levels of corruption have a hard time with democracy. The thing is that you allude to an authoritarian rule doesn't deal with corruption that much better. They often times make the country worse like dividing the populace.
I'm afraid of the future. There isn't a single decent candidate. I'm not gonna lie, I was going to vote for him because of his Christian posture since I'm one too... but I can't agree with that (and apparently other) opinion of his.How do you think he was going to rule? That he was going to be a quick way to get rid of corruption, rather than him just taking advantage of said corruption and just blame minorities or other scapegoats for the country's problems?
It happens every single time, and every single time people fall for it. And it's always because people thought that these people "didn't intend to say that" or that they would pivot once in power, or just plain ignorance of their candidate's positions. Keep voting for candidate's personalities rather than ideas and you'll keep going backwards rather than forwards.
I'm afraid of the future. There isn't a single decent candidate. I'm not gonna lie, I was going to vote for him because of his Christian posture since I'm one too... but I can't agree with that (and apparently other) opinion of his.
Brazil needs someone who will calm the fuck down and not pick a fight with either side. We really really super really need a Macron type who can wave the centrist flag of "at least I'm not either of those two idiots".
I'm afraid of the future. There isn't a single decent candidate. I'm not gonna lie, I was going to vote for him because of his Christian posture since I'm one too... but I can't agree with that (and apparently other) opinion of his.
^Basically this. Poor education ends up being a serious threat to democracy, people believe everything can be fixed by a single person, who will magically solve every problem. When said person can't solve such problems, then the problem obviously lies in the democratic system and not in the idea of a single handled savior.It's a vicious cycle, corrupt leaders do not invest in making the population be better in education and other aspects, which makes the population turn to authoritarian leaders. This in turn leads to even more inequality (not to mention the human rights problems that take decades to heal). I don't think there has been an authoritarian regime that benefited all the people of a country.
After progressives have finally made the country return to a better path, a new generation of politicians (who learned by the previous generation's example) rise and repeat the same mistakes. Rinse and repeat. Mostly. I do think we as a civilization are slowly improving, even if it doesn't seem like it. But I don't know much about Brazilian politics, so this might not be the case.
I'm not surprised that we find Brazilian fans of him even here, open voice chat on Brazilian servers tell you a lot about the toxicity and racism of the gaming community there. While the country is celebrated worldwide as an example of melting pot, it's one of the most structurally racist country in the world.
As a person of color in Brazil, i disagree.
There is a lot of prejudice, but Brazil is much more about social prejudice than racial prejudice. If you are black but with good clothes and stuff, you may experience bad stuff, but it's not that likely. I even experienced that myself. Going to somewhere depending on what you wear, or how you behave and people treat you like two different people.
Not that there isn't racial prejudice, but both concepts get mixed a bit because most of the poorer people are people of color.
I thought his gaming fans were going to reduce in numbers after he said that video games are the devil or something along those lines, I guess not.
I do disagree that there is an structural racism. There is racism of course but mixed heavily with class discrimination and is not really an structured, institutionalized monolith. Miscegenation was an actual State policy, that is absolutely insane if we see it from an american perspective, and its why I think one of the biggest mistakes the brazilian left does is importing the arguments and narratives of americans regarding race and lgbt issues, sometimes it seems they apply but they don't, because the culture and history of both countries are very different.
Ill also suggest Na Minha Pele by Lázaro Ramos for anyone wanting a contemporary look on the issue of racism in Brazil.Is this a joke ? Or maybe you don't get what structural racism mean ?
It mean that the brazilian society is racially organized as a legacy of the colonial order. It's the same in all america, and it's ESPECIALLY true in Brazil. Slavery was abolished even later than in the rest of the continent in your country, so it's even more preeminent. This "cultural exception" is BS.
You can watch this documentary.
I'll also suggest ”Na Minha Pele" by Lázaro Ramos for anyone wanting a contemporary look on the issue of racism in Brazil.
edit: the book is only available in Portuguese as of now.
Is this a joke ? Or maybe you don't get what structural racism mean ?
It mean that the brazilian society is racially organized as a legacy of the colonial order. It's the same in all america, and it's ESPECIALLY true in Brazil. Slavery was abolished even later than in the rest of the continent in your country, so it's even more preeminent. This "cultural exception" is BS. If anything, it's way worse in Brazil and in the Cono Sur in general because there is a lot of denial going on.
You can watch this documentary.
I have seen it, and it literally proves my point about seeing racial issues through american eyes, it's an american documentary done by an american. That one of the big conclusions is that affirmative action is necessary for Brazil says it all about it. Watch this documentary to realize the problems an american measure has in a country with such a different, much more mixed society.
As i said, both exist and sometime there is correlation, but they are not the same. Poor people, whatever the color of their skin, are pretty much neglected. Also, poor people get worse Jobs not because they are black, but because they have less options. The fact that black (and people of mixed Race) consist of a huge part of the poorest is consequence of our history, but nowadays, it's much more of a trap than actual rprejudice against race. Most people don't care that they are employing someone black ir white, but at the good jobs, most of the people that get there are white to begin with, since they already got more money and can study in good schools and stuff.It's the same everywhere, it's not social prejudice instead of racial prejudice, it's both.
I don't understand how the fact that you will "not likely" experience racism in Brazil if you have good clothes as a black person demonstrate anything. Racism is structural. Just look at the average income for black/white people in Brazil. Also, access to education, housing, health, job etc.
The "vocal racism" is always the tip of the iceberg.
He released some childrens novels before, but this one is his first adult book and its a semi-autobiography. Hes a famous black actor in Brazil and the book is very illuminating in many ways. He also goes over a lot of information and statistics that he gathered through the years on Espelho, a TV show he hosts where he interviews people about a variety of subjects with a focus on black culture.Thanks, i'll keep that for later. Can you recommend older books of him i could read in spanish ?
I already seen this documentary and it proves absolutely nothing that goes in the direction you took. It's actually pretty eloquent about the structural racism in your country.
Affirmative action IS necessary in Brazil as in all america. You cannot tackle the legacy of the colonial order without it. The fact that you reject it says it all about you.
As i said, both exist and sometime there is correlation, but they are not the same. Poor people, whatever the color of their skin, are pretty much neglected. Also, poor people get worse Jobs not because they are black, but because they have less options. The fact that black (and people of mixed Race) consist of a huge part of the poorest is consequence of our history, but nowadays, it's much more of a trap than actual rprejudice against race. Most people don't care that they are employing someone black ir white, but at the good jobs, most of the people that get there are white to begin with, since they already got more money and can study in good schools and stuff.
Also, my example wasn't of vocal racism. I know that depending on my looks, the security guards Will follow me on shops, people will avoid me... It already happened more than once. Even closed my bank account some months ago because of this. It's not the skin, it's the concept of someone that might be poor and attack you. People are crazy.
Wait, you are not even brazilian? what is exactly your knowledge of Brazil besides these documentaries? lol, are you going to teach us poor ignorants about our own countries? Jesus.
So, you agree with me that is social prejudice? Cause thats what you are talking.It's exactly the same in the USA, it dosen't change anything about the matter at hand. The fact that you're more likely to be poor while you're black because of history is the definition of structural racism.
It's totally false that most people are colorblind when they are hiring, it's just wishful thinking. Let's see some numbers.
Wait, you are not even brazilian? what is exactly your knowledge of Brazil besides these documentaries? lol, are you going to teach us poor ignorants about our own countries? Jesus.
On the Mindless Menace of Violence said:"For there is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. This is a slow destruction of a child by hunger, and schools without books and homes without heat in the winter.
This is the breaking of a man's spirit by denying him the chance to stand as a father and as a man among other men. And this too afflicts us all."
So, you agree with me that is social prejudice? Cause thats what you are talking.
Also, you are the one saying it's false. Show me the numbers.
Power corrupts, it doesn't matter what the system is. All you can do is reduce it by having checks and balances.