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[JJD]

Persecution of gays and refugees? What?

Yes????

Dude said in an interview that refugees are the scum of the world.

http://exame.abril.com.br/brasil/bolsonaro-chama-refugiados-de-escoria-do-mundo/

 

[Rolanderson]

Man, I sure am glad I chose to come back to Brazil right now.
Man did I think that getting out of the US while Trump was president was a good idea, boy was I the fool!

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

I'm not surprised that we find Brazilian fans of him even here, open voice chat on Brazilian servers tell you a lot about the toxicity and racism of the gaming community there. While the country is celebrated worldwide as an example of melting pot, it's one of the most structurally racist country in the world.

 

[Lautaro]

"Hey, how do we fix the economy?"

"Protectionism doesn't work, maybe let's try somethIng else?"

"Fuck that, let's start persecuting people"

-----

"Hey, how do we stop having presidents resigning for corruption?"

"Maybe little by little we'll improve our country's institutions..."

"Fuck that, let's put a junta that can't be fired"

 

[n0razi]

Power corrupts, it doesn't matter what the system is. All you can do is reduce it by having checks and balances.

 

[Abinash117]

I'm not surprised that we find Brazilian fans of him even here, open voice chat on Brazilian servers tell you a lot about the toxicity and racism of the gaming community there. While the country is celebrated worldwide as an example of melting pot, it's one of the most structurally racist country in the world.

Who are racist to whom? I don't know much about Brazilian demography, but I did hear about Brazil still pretty racist. Is it the mainly White Brazilians being racist, or minorities, mixed-race, a light vs darker skin thing etc?

 

[W. L. Saga]

The colonization process was entirely different, English settlers in the US came to make a new living and start anew, motived mostly by religion. Spain and Portugal came to exploit and grow their empires. The "everyone for themselves" mentality in all of Latinamerica comes from this, it's even cultural, it is expected people will take advantage of you and you should take advantage of them. Brazilians call this the "jeitinho brasileiro", in Colombia we call it the "papaya", we all think this is unique to our respective countries but it's actually widespread in the whole continent. The result is crippling, endemic corruption with no solution, at least in the short term.

I'm actually surprised thry haven't found anything on Bolsonaro yet, you cannot make it into politics in Brazil without having to bribe someone.

Perfect post. This country has been chained by a extremely deep rooted corruption, to the point a regular citizen can't enter politics. It's a closed club. And it goes a long way and do not restrict itself to politicians. The "jeitinho brasileiro" (Brazilian way) is just people thinking they are smart by not refunding excess change that they may have received by mistake from someone, for example. Instead, they're spreading this cultural virus more and more. The hidden message being hammered everyday is that being honest and hard-working is being dumb.

It's true that Brazil, given all aspects, could be the world's greatest power. But all those riches are going down the drain every day. Laws are in place to protect the ones who steal from us. This system closed itself from all external interference.

As a result we watch a green-and-yellow Titanic sinking painfully slow, when it could be so much more. As a Brazilian citizen, I worry for my future everyday. And I don't think a dictatorship is a solution in any kind of way. I feel tired and out of options, even more when looking the list of potential candidates for the Presidential election of next year. The same parties, the same fuckers every two years.

It's this perpetual feeling that when you're going to work you're not contributing to the country in any meaningful way. Instead you're just being robbed of your time, your health, the few bucks you're able to amass every month. And when you can finally retire, surprise!, we have no money to pay for your retirement. Maybe because everything is gone to tax heavens. Now go fuck yourself and die in misery.

We're all being drained everyday here.

 

[Abinash117]

I'm interested in the part about people going to the right and becoming more evangelical.

Why do they believe being conservative is the way to go? Taking the US into consideration, or Canada with Harper, it is usually the conservatives who fuck up the country. I seriously doubt a conservative president will help them; in fact, they will continue stealing money and leave people even more poor and uneducated than before they rose to power.

I think it is unique to different countries. I imagine it is something to do with it providing answers and solutions for many people. Conservationism can be really assured of itself and when a country has many problems as it has a lot of people are looking for someone that can portray themselves of having all the answers usually with quick and decisive solutions.

I think it might not be all that surprising; becoming a democracy isn't going to fix corruption and I think a lot of these countries that always had high-levels of corruption have a hard time with democracy. The thing is that you allude to an authoritarian rule doesn't deal with corruption that much better. They often times make the country worse like dividing the populace.

 

[Insane Metal]

Yes????

Dude said in an interview that refugees are the scum of the world.

http://exame.abril.com.br/brasil/bolsonaro-chama-refugiados-de-escoria-do-mundo/

DAMN

Seriously, I didn't even know this.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Who are racist to whom? I don't know much about Brazilian demography, but I did hear about Brazil still pretty racist. Is it the mainly White Brazilians being racist, or minorities, mixed-race, a light vs darker skin thing etc?

Yes, the whites against the non whites. Of course, you also have mixed people who identify as white and goes for racist shit, but it's mostly a white thing.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

DAMN

Seriously, I didn't even know this.

How do you think he was going to rule? That he was going to be a quick way to get rid of corruption, rather than him just taking advantage of said corruption and just blame minorities or other scapegoats for the country's problems?

It happens every single time, and every single time people fall for it. And it's always because people thought that these people "didn't intend to say that" or that they would pivot once in power, or just plain ignorance of their candidate's positions. Keep voting for candidate's personalities rather than ideas and you'll keep going backwards rather than forwards.

 

[Apzu]

The problem is that people don't seem to learn from history, we have had 3 military governmets ever since the republic started, none brought what people expected. Why would it be different now? I mean the last military dictatorship gave us a huge inflation problem that was solved only years later after many economic programs. The only thing military governments were good at was nationalistic propaganda, everything else was a disaster.

This is hyperbole. Yeah, he's a homophobe idiot, but we're not even close to this type of situation, even if he wins.

I just don't think we're anywhere close to having a death squad for LGBTQ people on Brazil. I understand you being worried about Bolsonaro's election, it's definitely not positive, but an actual death squad just for being trans didn't exist even during the military dictatorship.

It's not really that hyperbolic, we're right now one of the countries that have more LGBTQ deaths. Now imagine what may happen if someone that condones this practices becomes president. We don't need death squads, we just need the bigots we already have becoming more emboldened to make the situation a lot more dire.

The more I examine history, the more I find myself more surprised that the US actually succeeded in leveraging their land and resources to become a world superpower than I am the fact that other American states have failed to do the same.

I'd say its pretty much thanks to the north winning civil war. I won't say I know a lot about american history, but from what I read the south colonies didn't seem to be that much different to spanish and portuguese colonies, regarding economic practices at least. They were more an exploration type of colony rather than a new place to live type. But it's basically what mantidor said:

The colonization process was entirely different, English settlers in the US came to make a new living and start anew, motived mostly by religion. Spain and Portugal came to exploit and grow their empires. The "everyone for themselves" mentality in all of Latinamerica comes from this, it's even cultural, it is expected people will take advantage of you and you should take advantage of them. Brazilians call this the "jeitinho brasileiro", in Colombia we call it the "papaya", we all think this is unique to our respective countries but it's actually widespread in the whole continent. The result is crippling, endemic corruption with no solution, at least in the short term.

I'm interested in the part about people going to the right and becoming more evangelical.

Why do they believe being conservative is the way to go? Taking the US into consideration, or Canada with Harper, it is usually the conservatives who fuck up the country. I seriously doubt a conservative president will help them; in fact, they will continue stealing money and leave people even more poor and uneducated than before they rose to power.

Well, it's a bit like that but not so much. The thing is that we were always a very catholic country, people here believe in God a lot (in a way we are a lot like the US in this regard I guess) but right now evangelicals are growing quite fast thanks to the "prosperity theology", which assures that you can get rich if God so whishes. So a lot of evangelical churches started spreading to places were the government was not that active, like Favelas, and started spreading their message that if people devoted themselves to God and made their donations constantly they would get the help they need and the money to go live in a better place. The thing is, most of these evangelicals think a lot like american evangelicals, so they also started preaching a lot of americans conservatives ideas, so usually these converted people become a lot more conservatives than when they were catholics.

He said such things in response to other shitty people who were provoking him.

Also his promises as President are to make the market more open and improve security, while fighting corruption.

I'm sure as hell that the way things are *right now* they aren't good.

And do you really believe that? I mean, he has always defended that the government should be more active in the market, he only started with the pro-open market promises when he started thinking about becoming a presidential candidate. His role models are mostly from the military dictatorship, which had an economic view a lot closer to what Dilma believed in than any pro-market politician. He's only catering to the liberal right, because he already has the conservative votes. Secondly, do you really think he'll fight corruption? I can name you a lot of politicians who promised that, who didn't have any corruption scandals on them and what do you know, they were corrupt as fuck. One of those was Collor, the marajá hunter, aka the first impeached president due to a corruption scandal.

It would have been nice if the article discussed why the economy is failing.

It talked about everything but that. Kinda frustrating given the premise that the economy (and its subsequent instability leading to high levels of unemployment and extreme wealth distribution) is at the center of the reason for unrest.

What was working so well that stopped working a few years ago? What are Brazil's main exports and have they been impacted by world economics in some way? What is the solution here? Because as the article correctly points out, if people feel some economic optimism, most other things can be dealt with. If people can't feed their children, there will be riots in the street, no matter what government type they have.

And it's no surprise to see a rise of conservativism, religion and nationalism. When people get scared or feel powerless, they fall back to an environment they feel they can have some control or power over. Religion always enables that kind of fear response and allows people feel superior or otherwise part of a winning team, even if they're losing in life.

Basically it's our former president's fault, most of our current economic problems are self made. Dilma believed the government should be present in every part of the economy, deciding about everything. So she decided the government should help big companies that manufactured cars, because maybe they would create more jobs, so she reduced the taxes for the companies that were here and raised the import taxes. Most of the money though became profit for the matrices of companies like Volkswagen and Ford, almost nothing returned as investment. She also decided to use a government bank to favor the creation of big braizlian companies, mostly from people who were friends with politicians. Nowadays most of them are in jail for corruption scandals, like the former richest brazilian Eike Batista, or the company is almost bankrupt, like Oi a telephone company. She decided that our gasoline was too expensive as well, so she did the logical thing and decided to use the state owned company to subsidize oil prices, which made Petrobras become a constantly deficitary oil company which dind't go bankrupt only because the government latter paid the company debts (also, there were a lot of corruption scandals which further damaged the comapny). Dilma also decided our energy prices were too high, so she forced energy companies to lower the price the same year we had one of our worst droughts. Problem is, most of our energy comes from hydroelectric plants, so the prices soon bounced back to the initial price and then they started to go up and up and up as we started to use more and more thermoelectric plants. Dilma also didn't like accountability that much so our former treasury secretary cooked the books and was caught. Multiple times. Basically no one believed the government numbers anymore when she was reelected. Finally, thanks to all of that and a few other things I didn't mention, our inflation grew a lot, from something like 4 or 5% a year to 10%.

 

[Kid Ying]

I'm not surprised that we find Brazilian fans of him even here, open voice chat on Brazilian servers tell you a lot about the toxicity and racism of the gaming community there. While the country is celebrated worldwide as an example of melting pot, it's one of the most structurally racist country in the world.

As a person of color in Brazil, i disagree.

There is a lot of prejudice, but Brazil is much more about social prejudice than racial prejudice. If you are black but with good clothes and stuff, you may experience bad stuff, but it's not that likely. I even experienced that myself. Going to somewhere depending on what you wear, or how you behave and people treat you like two different people.

Not that there isn't racial prejudice, but both concepts get mixed a bit because most of the poorer people are people of color.

 

[Sblargh]

Our economic issues come from a highly corrupt left wing president manipulating stuff like gas and electricity prices in order to win an election. So the traitor dogs who want to kidnap the country for the military took advantage to go "look, democracy doesn't work" to which the allies of the corrupt left amswered "You are right, maduro ignored democracy and he is still in power".

So we have enemies of the country inside the military vying for the return of brutality so they can murder anyone who is against corruption and our left wing answer is to embrace venezulean dictatorship so they can murder anyone who is against corruption.

 

[SargerusBR]

BOLSONARO 2018

Guy is an asshole. But Lula again in 2018 will tear this country apart. The political reform is fucking dead, corruption everywhere will be even more common than right now.

 

[Elchele]

Crazy that the BRIC countries that will determine the future political, economic and military might of the world are all becoming nationalistic and jingoistic in a sense. Modi in India, China we've seen what they're saying and doing. Putin and Russia and the annexation of Crimea and fomenting discord and nationalism in other European states. And now Brazilians increasingly also want regimented military rule and not democracy.

Brazil's political crisis wasn't something that happened organically. A lot of external agents ran the show behind the curtains. Brazil was getting too big and too influential in the region and the world for USA to allow it

 

[Sblargh]

Guy is an asshole. But Lula again in 2018 will tear this country apart.

And this is the false choice the polarization is ramming down our throats.

We have Marina Silva or even someone like Joaquim Barbosa if he decides. I don't like them very much, but we have Doria, Ciro Gomes or even Alckmin. There's also the possibility of a party like Novo coming up with a completely new name.

I wish PSOL had a viable name, but they sacrificed themselves for the glory of PT and now the party pretty much doesn't exist anymore.

Lula and Bolsonaro are the literal worst names. Anyone who is not them and we have a chance to start healing from the grasshopper plague that was Dilma Rousseff.

Either of them winning and the country will be 4 years of blind "us vs them" that goes nowhere.

Do you really think Bolsonaro will not tear this country apart? A country with large social movements like MST and MTST, with large influential unions? With a very organized left wing student movement that was capable of occupying thousands of schools and pretty much every university? How will they deal with someone who not only they hate ideologically, but is also impossible to talk or negotiate?

One side will ramp up the violence and the other in return will do the same. Bolsonaro is a death cultist and he will be up against people who spent their entire lives dreaming of fighting a violent revolution. How will that work out?

 

[Not]

Gotta say, and I speak for most of the world at this point, democracy is fucking hard

 

[Sblargh]

Brazil needs someone who will calm the fuck down and not pick a fight with either side. We really really super really need a Macron type who can wave the centrist flag of "at least I'm not either of those two idiots".

 

[SargerusBR]

And this is the false choice the polarization is ramming down our throats.

We have Marina Silva or even someone like Joaquim Barbosa if he decides. I don't like them very much, but we have Doria, Ciro Gomes or even Alckmin. There's also the possibility of a party like Novo coming up with a completely new name.

I wish PSOL had a viable name, but they sacrificed themselves for the glory of PT and now the party pretty much doesn't exist anymore.

Lula and Bolsonaro are the literal worst names. Anyone who is not them and we have a chance to start healing from the grasshopper plague that was Dilma Rousseff.

Either of them winning and the country will be 4 years of blind "us vs them" that goes nowhere.

Do you really think Bolsonaro will not tear this country apart? A country with large social movements like MST and MTST, with large influential unions? With a very organized left wing student movement that was capable of occupying thousands of schools and pretty much every university? How will they deal with someone who not only they hate ideologically, but is also impossible to talk or negotiate?

One side will ramp up the violence and the other in return will do the same. Bolsonaro is a death cultist and he will be up against people who spent their entire lives dreaming of fighting a violent revolution. How will that work out?

Marina is the only one i think even has a chance but then again she would probably need the entire support of the opposite party(Including Bolsonaro) to have a shot at Lula.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Gotta say, and I speak for most of the world at this point, democracy is fucking hard

It's a vicious cycle, corrupt leaders do not invest in making the population be better in education and other aspects, which makes the population turn to authoritarian leaders. This in turn leads to even more inequality (not to mention the human rights problems that take decades to heal). I don't think there has been an authoritarian regime that benefited all the people of a country.

After progressives have finally made the country return to a better path, a new generation of politicians (who learned by the previous generation's example) rise and repeat the same mistakes. Rinse and repeat. Mostly. I do think we as a civilization are slowly improving, even if it doesn't seem like it. But I don't know much about Brazilian politics, so this might not be the case.

 

[Linkark07]

I think it might not be all that surprising; becoming a democracy isn't going to fix corruption and I think a lot of these countries that always had high-levels of corruption have a hard time with democracy. The thing is that you allude to an authoritarian rule doesn't deal with corruption that much better. They often times make the country worse like dividing the populace.

Here in Panama, we have always had to deal with corruption. Before the military regime, the last president was a conservative idiot who supported the Nazis. Luckily, the army took him out and exiled him before he could really damage the country.

After that, Panama started living in a military regime. First with Torrijos, but at least he (supposedly) really cared for the poor people. According to my parents, it was thanks to Torrijos that the middle class was born in Panama. Nevertheless, there was still corruption. Come Noriega, situation got worst: people started disappearing, the army was intimidating the population, drugs were running rampant (especially since Noriega dealt with drug trafficking) and people got even more poor. And let's not talk about corruption, which was awful. Those dark years in Panama are comparable to what is happening right now in Venezuela. So yeah, in many ways, the authoritarian governments were worse than anything else

That said, after the military regime and the restoration of democracy, all the following governments have had very serious scandals because of corruption, especially the last one, so the situation hasn't gotten better. And like Brazil, the Evangelical Churches are trying to form a political party and seeking to win the 2019 elections. And they are completely disgusting human beings: denying same sex marriage, trying to intimidate immigrants, completely against sexual education...

Only good Latin American President I have heard of is Pepe Mujica.

 

[Insane Metal]

How do you think he was going to rule? That he was going to be a quick way to get rid of corruption, rather than him just taking advantage of said corruption and just blame minorities or other scapegoats for the country's problems?

It happens every single time, and every single time people fall for it. And it's always because people thought that these people "didn't intend to say that" or that they would pivot once in power, or just plain ignorance of their candidate's positions. Keep voting for candidate's personalities rather than ideas and you'll keep going backwards rather than forwards.

I'm afraid of the future. There isn't a single decent candidate. I'm not gonna lie, I was going to vote for him because of his Christian posture since I'm one too... but I can't agree with that (and apparently other) opinion of his.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

I'm afraid of the future. There isn't a single decent candidate. I'm not gonna lie, I was going to vote for him because of his Christian posture since I'm one too... but I can't agree with that (and apparently other) opinion of his.

I am glad that you realized that being a single-issue voter isn't the best position to take when it comes to democracy.

I know it is not easy, and I do feel for you Brazilian brothers, and hope that you guys can go forward in the best way for all your people.

 

[Brazil]

Brazil needs someone who will calm the fuck down and not pick a fight with either side. We really really super really need a Macron type who can wave the centrist flag of "at least I'm not either of those two idiots".

Either one of those five or six idiots, you mean.

But, yeah. Compromise.

 

[Sblargh]

I'm afraid of the future. There isn't a single decent candidate. I'm not gonna lie, I was going to vote for him because of his Christian posture since I'm one too... but I can't agree with that (and apparently other) opinion of his.

Bolsonaro is not a christian. His only values are torture and murder. Everything else he flip flops.

He is a christian insofar he is on a country with a christian majority, but in the end he swears loialty to anything that allows sadism and death.

 

[n00bsauce87]

Secret Empire is being played out in yet another country.

 

[Eylos]

I have no Hope in the election next year, so this article is on point in this regard.

 

[EchoChamber]

And I thought Mexico was fucked I'm terms of politics.

 

[Apzu]

It's a vicious cycle, corrupt leaders do not invest in making the population be better in education and other aspects, which makes the population turn to authoritarian leaders. This in turn leads to even more inequality (not to mention the human rights problems that take decades to heal). I don't think there has been an authoritarian regime that benefited all the people of a country.

After progressives have finally made the country return to a better path, a new generation of politicians (who learned by the previous generation's example) rise and repeat the same mistakes. Rinse and repeat. Mostly. I do think we as a civilization are slowly improving, even if it doesn't seem like it. But I don't know much about Brazilian politics, so this might not be the case.

^Basically this. Poor education ends up being a serious threat to democracy, people believe everything can be fixed by a single person, who will magically solve every problem. When said person can't solve such problems, then the problem obviously lies in the democratic system and not in the idea of a single handled savior.

Nostalgia also doesn't help, you can easily find older people advocating for the good ol' days of the military dictatorship. "Back then we had better public schools, better public hospitals and people felt more safe". Which are things that are somewhat true, but not really. Public schools were indeed better, but it was a limited system where only a handful of people could study there, which made it harder for poor people to get education. Nowadays public schools must take in every child, so the number of students increased by a lot, but the same can't be said about government spenditure, so naturally education got worse. However it's much better that the government provides education for everyone than just a few. Something similar happened with public hospitals and nowadays anyone can be treated in them, whereas in the dictatorship access was limited. Finally security wasn't that much better, but when you can't report too many bad news, then it seems like you live in a peaceful place.

Democracy allows for some progress, but it's not as fast as some would want it to be. We had some social progress in the past few years that are much better than all the decades under military goverment. Up until this last government we were having a very decent economic growth as well, which was a lot more sustainable than the dictatorship economic growth. Also, we are finally investigating corruption scandals, whereas in the past we'd usually just sweep it under the rug and call it a day. All of this can only happen under a democratic environment and unfortunately we never had too much time in such a system. We are now under 25 years of democracy, it's more time than any other period in our republican history which is already 128 years old. We still need a lot more time to fix all the problems but we can only fix it if we don't go back to military rule.

 

[mantidor]

I'm not surprised that we find Brazilian fans of him even here, open voice chat on Brazilian servers tell you a lot about the toxicity and racism of the gaming community there. While the country is celebrated worldwide as an example of melting pot, it's one of the most structurally racist country in the world.

I thought his gaming fans were going to reduce in numbers after he said that video games are the devil or something along those lines, I guess not.

I do disagree that there is an structural racism. There is racism of course but mixed heavily with class discrimination and is not really an structured, institutionalized monolith. Miscegenation was an actual State policy, that is absolutely insane if we see it from an american perspective, and its why I think one of the biggest mistakes the brazilian left does is importing the arguments and narratives of americans regarding race and lgbt issues, sometimes it seems they apply but they don't, because the culture and history of both countries are very different.

 

[Memento]

I am so fucking scared for 2018. If Bolsonaro wins it will be extremely sad. He is basically Trump 2.0 but even worse.

Edit: cant believe there are Bolsonaro voters HERE? In NeoGAF? Ban please.

 

[Eylos]

Even sadder, If the general menace of intervention turns to be true. Uruguay here i come

 

[Ezalc]

Count me in the number of people planning to get the fuck out of this country in the next year or so.

It's such a shitshow, there's so much to love and yet everyday it just pisses me off in how much worse it seems to get. It's constantly oneupping itself in how garbage the society can be.

 

[Gustavoh]

Conspicuously absent from the article is a proper explanation for the mess we're in right now. The writer goes straight from

"Lula was one of the most popular politicians in the world, and Brazil was finally gaining respect from the international community."

to

"Fast-forward a decade and a half, and some 13.5 million Brazilians have lost their jobs, the country’s reputation is in shambles, and the economy can’t seem to get over its worst recession in the past 30 years."

without pointing out that over that decade and a half PT (the leftist Workers' Party) was running Brazil, and that both the political and economic catastrophe was caused by their staggering incompetence, their "never-before-in-the-history-of-this-country" levels of corruption, and their unwavering arrogance. That might have helped some folks here understand why a lot of people are leaning right/conservative right now.

It's sadly ironic that if a guy like Bolsonaro is elected next year, he will have PT, Lula and Dilma to thank for that.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

As a person of color in Brazil, i disagree.

There is a lot of prejudice, but Brazil is much more about social prejudice than racial prejudice. If you are black but with good clothes and stuff, you may experience bad stuff, but it's not that likely. I even experienced that myself. Going to somewhere depending on what you wear, or how you behave and people treat you like two different people.

Not that there isn't racial prejudice, but both concepts get mixed a bit because most of the poorer people are people of color.

It's the same everywhere, it's not social prejudice instead of racial prejudice, it's both.
I don't understand how the fact that you will "not likely" experience racism in Brazil if you have good clothes as a black person demonstrate anything. Racism is structural. Just look at the average income for black/white people in Brazil. Also, access to education, housing, health, job etc.
The "vocal racism" is always the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

I thought his gaming fans were going to reduce in numbers after he said that video games are the devil or something along those lines, I guess not.

I do disagree that there is an structural racism. There is racism of course but mixed heavily with class discrimination and is not really an structured, institutionalized monolith. Miscegenation was an actual State policy, that is absolutely insane if we see it from an american perspective, and its why I think one of the biggest mistakes the brazilian left does is importing the arguments and narratives of americans regarding race and lgbt issues, sometimes it seems they apply but they don't, because the culture and history of both countries are very different.

Is this a joke ? Or maybe you don't get what structural racism mean ?
It mean that the brazilian society is racially organized as a legacy of the colonial order. It's the same in all america, and it's ESPECIALLY true in Brazil. Slavery was abolished even later than in the rest of the continent in your country, so it's even more preeminent. This "cultural exception" is BS. If anything, it's way worse in Brazil and in the Cono Sur in general because there is a lot of denial going on.


You can watch this documentary.

 

[Fuu]

Is this a joke ? Or maybe you don't get what structural racism mean ?
It mean that the brazilian society is racially organized as a legacy of the colonial order. It's the same in all america, and it's ESPECIALLY true in Brazil. Slavery was abolished even later than in the rest of the continent in your country, so it's even more preeminent. This "cultural exception" is BS.


You can watch this documentary.

I’ll also suggest “Na Minha Pele” by Lázaro Ramos for anyone wanting a contemporary look on the issue of racism in Brazil.

edit: the book is only available in Portuguese as of now.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

I'll also suggest ”Na Minha Pele" by Lázaro Ramos for anyone wanting a contemporary look on the issue of racism in Brazil.

edit: the book is only available in Portuguese as of now.

Thanks, i'll keep that for later. Can you recommend older books of him i could read in spanish ?

 

[mantidor]

Is this a joke ? Or maybe you don't get what structural racism mean ?
It mean that the brazilian society is racially organized as a legacy of the colonial order. It's the same in all america, and it's ESPECIALLY true in Brazil. Slavery was abolished even later than in the rest of the continent in your country, so it's even more preeminent. This "cultural exception" is BS. If anything, it's way worse in Brazil and in the Cono Sur in general because there is a lot of denial going on.


You can watch this documentary.

I have seen it, and it literally proves my point about seeing racial issues through american eyes, it's an american documentary done by an american. That one of the big conclusions is that affirmative action is necessary for Brazil says it all about it. Watch this documentary to realize the problems an american measure has in a country with such a different, much more mixed society.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

I have seen it, and it literally proves my point about seeing racial issues through american eyes, it's an american documentary done by an american. That one of the big conclusions is that affirmative action is necessary for Brazil says it all about it. Watch this documentary to realize the problems an american measure has in a country with such a different, much more mixed society.

I already seen this documentary and it proves absolutely nothing that goes in the direction you took. It's actually pretty eloquent about the structural racism in your country. It's not because one twin was viewed as black and one as white by the system that it prove anything. The same thing exist and have existed in USA as well since the colonial time.

Affirmative action IS necessary in Brazil as in all america. You cannot tackle the legacy of the colonial order without it. The fact that you reject it says it all about you.

 

[Kid Ying]

It's the same everywhere, it's not social prejudice instead of racial prejudice, it's both.
I don't understand how the fact that you will "not likely" experience racism in Brazil if you have good clothes as a black person demonstrate anything. Racism is structural. Just look at the average income for black/white people in Brazil. Also, access to education, housing, health, job etc.
The "vocal racism" is always the tip of the iceberg.

As i said, both exist and sometime there is correlation, but they are not the same. Poor people, whatever the color of their skin, are pretty much neglected. Also, poor people get worse Jobs not because they are black, but because they have less options. The fact that black (and people of mixed Race) consist of a huge part of the poorest is consequence of our history, but nowadays, it's much more of a trap than actual rprejudice against race. Most people don't care that they are employing someone black ir white, but at the good jobs, most of the people that get there are white to begin with, since they already got more money and can study in good schools and stuff.

Also, my example wasn't of vocal racism. I know that depending on my looks, the security guards Will follow me on shops, people will avoid me... It already happened more than once. Even closed my bank account some months ago because of this. It's not the skin, it's the concept of someone that might be poor and attack you. People are crazy.

 

[Fuu]

Thanks, i'll keep that for later. Can you recommend older books of him i could read in spanish ?

He released some children’s novels before, but this one is his first adult book and it’s a semi-autobiography. He’s a famous black actor in Brazil and the book is very illuminating in many ways. He also goes over a lot of information and statistics that he gathered through the years on “Espelho”, a TV show he hosts where he interviews people about a variety of subjects with a focus on black culture.

Hopefully it’s translated into other languages soon. The release of the book was a big deal earlier this year, with him being one of the guests at FLIP (one of the most relevant literary festivals in Brazil).

 

[mantidor]

I already seen this documentary and it proves absolutely nothing that goes in the direction you took. It's actually pretty eloquent about the structural racism in your country.

Affirmative action IS necessary in Brazil as in all america. You cannot tackle the legacy of the colonial order without it. The fact that you reject it says it all about you.

Wait, you are not even brazilian? what is exactly your knowledge of Brazil besides these documentaries? lol, are you going to teach us poor ignorants about our own countries? Jesus.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

As i said, both exist and sometime there is correlation, but they are not the same. Poor people, whatever the color of their skin, are pretty much neglected. Also, poor people get worse Jobs not because they are black, but because they have less options. The fact that black (and people of mixed Race) consist of a huge part of the poorest is consequence of our history, but nowadays, it's much more of a trap than actual rprejudice against race. Most people don't care that they are employing someone black ir white, but at the good jobs, most of the people that get there are white to begin with, since they already got more money and can study in good schools and stuff.

Also, my example wasn't of vocal racism. I know that depending on my looks, the security guards Will follow me on shops, people will avoid me... It already happened more than once. Even closed my bank account some months ago because of this. It's not the skin, it's the concept of someone that might be poor and attack you. People are crazy.

It's exactly the same in the USA, it dosen't change anything about the matter at hand. The fact that you're more likely to be poor while you're black because of history is the definition of structural racism.

It's totally false that most people are colorblind when they are hiring, it's just wishful thinking. Let's see some numbers.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

Wait, you are not even brazilian? what is exactly your knowledge of Brazil besides these documentaries? lol, are you going to teach us poor ignorants about our own countries? Jesus.

I got black brazilian blood, i know the story of slavery in Brazil, i live in the region, i know brazilian people and have read books about racial issues in Brazil.

You're only line of defense really is "those damn outsiders don't understand the cultural nuance of our racial order" ?

Edit: Thanks, Fuu, looking forward for the book to be translated then. If it's not, i'll try to read it in portuguese.

 

[Kid Ying]

It's exactly the same in the USA, it dosen't change anything about the matter at hand. The fact that you're more likely to be poor while you're black because of history is the definition of structural racism.

It's totally false that most people are colorblind when they are hiring, it's just wishful thinking. Let's see some numbers.

So, you agree with me that is social prejudice? Cause thats what you are talking.

Also, you are the one saying it's false. Show me the numbers.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Wait, you are not even brazilian? what is exactly your knowledge of Brazil besides these documentaries? lol, are you going to teach us poor ignorants about our own countries? Jesus.

I'm not from the United States and I'm pretty sure I can educate a couple of people from there about their political climate.

If your country invests more in areas that are not conformed by minorities, then there's systemic racism. If your country has a life expectancy and less opportunity for minorities, then there's systemic racism. Racism does not have to be an active action where you hate someone for the color of his or her skin.

Negligence is racism. Inaction is racism. Choosing not to see and choosing not to do anything is racism if you're a politician with the power to improve things.

"For there is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. This is a slow destruction of a child by hunger, and schools without books and homes without heat in the winter.
This is the breaking of a man's spirit by denying him the chance to stand as a father and as a man among other men. And this too afflicts us all."

My country has it (Colombia), and yours likely has it too.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

So, you agree with me that is social prejudice? Cause thats what you are talking.

Also, you are the one saying it's false. Show me the numbers.

Structural racism is always about social order. It's not about prejudice. You're most likely black because you're poor, you're poor most likely because you're black.

The numbers shows that it's even worst than in the USA.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

Power corrupts, it doesn't matter what the system is. All you can do is reduce it by having checks and balances.

This.

I've noticed that parliamentary systems seem to be fairing much better in terms of representing common people's interests than are representative democracies modeled after the US governmental system.

Maybe this should tell us something here in the Americas (outside of Canada of course)?