GhostTrick
Banned
You take Itch.io as an exemple; They have Suicide Simulator in their catalog. You talk about report button ? Steam also has it.
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Booted up Steam for time in months and checked the new releases....WTF
- Thread starter thekiddfran
- Start date
You take Itch.io as an exemple; They have Suicide Simulator in their catalog. You talk about report button ? Steam also has it.
Blocking content, that you might find offensive, from getting onto the service in the first place? Itch doesn't have that, just a means of reporting content that's already on there, again, much like Steam.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
For my response, I'm on mobile right now and a slow typer on it so sorry for some redudncy. I hope itch.io continues to grow though!
They should curate stuff and when they inevitably block something that should have been on the store (according to my subjective opinion) make a big stink and hope that they curate 'better' going forward and start complaining again once something that shouldn't be on the store (according to my subjective opinion) slips through the now loosened cracks and demand stricter curation and when they inevitably block something that should have been on the store (according to my subjective opinion) ... etc
Already said it in the post above you
Easy, if the company opened it's doors to more content and they seem to aknowledge some of the problems the store have, I think is fairly to think that this tendency could keep up.
They denied some games before, they learned from it
They opened up the store to whatever game, I think it's easy to believe that they could bring a solution for every user to seek the content they want and yeah I aknowledge the tags and I already talked about this in other posts.
My main concerns are the grey areas of this freedom and if some stuff will eventually show up and steam will keep gaining money from that, I don't think that's ethical, but, and I repeat, that's my perception of this issue, not talking about any groups or anything
Just did a quick check and the Steam report/flag button is a lot higher up and more prominent on any individual store page than itch.io's.
This is hilarious.
No brainer, steam is also a bigger company so of course they would have that better designed or had more time to properly place it
Yeah I know, so what with this again? I already explained why I used that platform as an example
GhostTrick
Banned
So, for you luulubu, Itch.io is good because it does the same thing as Steam. But Steam is bad because it does the same thing as Itch.io.
How many people who think that these games shouldn't be on the store used "report" button? If enough people do that, then there's a reason for Valve to consider "sanctions" or removal of the game. I think "report" function is the best tool for curation.
Overall I'm really glad Steam isn't as curated as it was before, otherwise we'd miss out on a lot of good games as well. A few (even hundreds and thousands) stinkers are small price to pay. If anything I think Steam is still has ways to go about being open. You'd never see some of the more hardcore VNs (that still have some substance inside) on the store for example.
Overall I'm really glad Steam isn't as curated as it was before, otherwise we'd miss out on a lot of good games as well. A few (even hundreds and thousands) stinkers are small price to pay. If anything I think Steam is still has ways to go about being open. You'd never see some of the more hardcore VNs (that still have some substance inside) on the store for example.
You literally said Steam's report button appears to be invisible, while using Itch.io's report button as a counter-example. You were proven wrong.
You think it's easy for Steam to show each of its 125 million users which of the 17,000~ games on the platform they each, individually want?
Never stated that. I said they have the same thing and a user asked for a curated store front that allowed curation and also hasnt bloked any games, even that as being as subjective as it could be. Itch.io has a post curation which I largely stated could be the solution, so no. You are wrong.
No, you misread it, because I was making an obvious sentence about how people are ignoring that I aknowledge that steam has a report button. You were proven wrong
Phoenix RISING
Banned
Looks like the Libertarians won this one.
Vote with your dollars
Vote with your dollars
Are you just making up your arguments as you go along?
I mean, I asked you for a curated store that doesn't block good games, and all you came up with was a store even less curated than Steam, and your proof for the "curation" was a report button that already exists on Steam and is in fact even less easy to find than on Steam. And you criticized Steam's for being "invisible" lol
That isn't curation. It's not a curated store. And if it was, Steam would literally be considered more curated than it.
Can you provide me then a large store front that is not either GOG or Steam that allows third party games on it? I dont think that exists, and of course, you asked for curation and I think curation comes after a game is released, right? Taking in consideration that the store allows everything, I think, the best option to curate something is aftwerwards?
Let the people decide which is not good or not to be in the store
Don't be.
By user decision? Yeah, Netflix does it. There are profiles that block certain content or not. Steam could use that, even if the store already has the "This content has mature themes on it" if games like those are not propely labeled with that (that they are) could be a risk.
What's so crazy about it.
BasilZero
Member
And ignore it too
I only look at and buy games I want.
Games like in the OP I just ignore them cause no point in stressing over it when you got a monster backlog like I have 😂
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
lmao it's cute when people make a different conclusion from a post when they're not even involved or following the direction
like I literally said a few posts ago games like this are personally bad but at the same time I'd rather not let arbitrary "checklists" be used for curation but instead let common sense be the ones to act on things like this - that there's a reason, again, for many people not to see this until they dabbled into this thread
hell even in the OP it's less about the game and more of "why is this in steam" which is what many of the posts are here about, rather than "why should this exist in the first place" which wasn't the actual topic
ah but it's expected on threads like this, better get the lotion ready because I know the pile ups are coming in!
GhostTrick
Banned
Itch.io is so curated that they sell Suicide Simulator. The very same game that is on this thread and is the reason for all this conversation.
So... Itch.io is the solution, but Steam is the problem. Interesting.
Origin and Uplay.
Curation doesn't come after release, no, that's not how curation works.
Origin allows third party games.
There isn't "after release curation" on either Steam or Itch.io. a report button that only applies to extremely specific cases is not curation.
I feel like I'm talking to a wall here. You constantly talk about a imaginary solution Itch.io has, some kind of magical curation after release, yet Itch.io literally doesn't do anything Steam doesn't. In fact, their curation is even worse.
Interesting indeed how you came to that conclusion that I stated that in any moment.
No of course not, I say it could be the solution, like maybe a few days of the game to be on sale to people to judge if it's good or not, again this couldnt be abused and theres no real solution to it. Is either everyone just close their eyes or ignore it or Steam rework their policies, or either people report awful stuff.
That's what I have been saying for 4 pages, sorry if that's not clear enough
RichiRamjag
Member
Stevey
Member
You have never used your discovery queue or filtered stuff out, have you?
This is what mine looks like.
thekiddfran
Member
Why should we care how hard it is for steam to create some code?
The problem with steam is the service is free and has a monopoly on the market. They can do whatever they want and they even have evangelicals on this thread saying it is my fault that I searched in the new release section and that an open market is always good. No it isnt and this is a prime example.
17,000 games on steam is not something to applaud. 80% of those games will probably be thrash. Thats like applauding google for the play store. That is also a complete mess
Stevey
Member
STEAM isnt a monopoly.
GhostTrick
Banned
The problem is that you are forcing your views to a business which the most likely purpose is to earn money. If you have an ethical concern with the way they do things and they don't seem to care (I don't really see that on my end), you should stop affiliating yourself with it. There's no point forcing yourself on a business which doesn't listen to you.
Also, as many others have said, there is no perfect system to address most of your concerns regarding Steam. I find the current curation system sufficient for my needs. If you don't want to take the bad with the good, you are free to make the choice to find another store who will do what you want.
thekiddfran
Member
Whats the %market share for origin and uplay abs GOG so?
At least on Steam when you sort by new releases it isn't 75% separate entries for various denominations of virtual currency and bikini outfits for gamergaters like it is on PSN.
They have a filter to only show games, but it's broken and will arbitrarily not show all the games released. They only way to reliably see everything new is to sift through a list of irrelevant crap.
They have a filter to only show games, but it's broken and will arbitrarily not show all the games released. They only way to reliably see everything new is to sift through a list of irrelevant crap.
Steam doesn't have a monopoly on the market. And how is Steam being free a problem?
And yes it is something to applaud. If 80% of those games are shit that's 3,400 good games, more than any other platform in history. I don't give a fuck if I see bad games because I just ignore them and move on with my life. If something is genuinely problematic then report it and move on with your life. If even one good game is turned away from Steam because of manual curation (and it is an inevitability, because of the subjective nature of game curation) then curation is a failure.
More than 0%, which means Steam isn't a monopoly.
You have never used your discovery queue or filtered stuff out, have you?
This is what mine looks like.
I love that Microtransactions simulator is just below NBA2K18 lol
Stevey
Member
Just because STEAM does better than the other services, doesn't make it a monopoly.
How comes I'm forcing it? I'm giving my idea about it and I'm free to use the platform I want even if I have concerns about it, so I don't think telling me what to do, which is a thing that I have only done when I have to point when I'm asked the same questions over and over again, is a good thing, either when you are avocating for freedom of use.
Have concerns and criticism about something is good, learning that you might not be right is also good.
That's what Greenlight was for, and it lead to rubbish like Air Control getting onto the store (later pulled by Valve I believe).
If Steam still had Greenlight it wouldn't surprise me if Suicide Simulator got green lit, you know, just for the "lols"?
But Steam is not a monopoly, and no, the percentage of trash games is not even remotely close to 80%.
Oh sure, I already talked about that, I don't think I have the correct answer that will help this and the ones I can think of, they could be easily abused.
Because you keep saying they are not doing the ethical thing since you are seeing things you don't want to see? Or because you keep saying it's not ethical for them to profit from things you don't want them to sell? Forcing your view may be incorrect, but you basically want them to align themselves with your perception so you can do business with them without concerns.
You can say that criticizing is good, but simply being concerned and critical without presenting a possible solution does not help the situation at all.
Anyway, I already discussed with you the negativity of curation and a possible solution with your issues in the earlier pages and you agreed to most of it. It's up to you anyways if it's within your ethics to do business with others who are not ethical in your POV.
Gravy Boat
Member
I just don't know why people are so resistant about setting up their own filters. It takes 5 minutes and it's something you need to do once and once it's done you'll never need to see a 'meme' game again.
That way you don't need to see the trash you don't want to see and we don't have to worry about good games not getting through the curation process.
That way you don't need to see the trash you don't want to see and we don't have to worry about good games not getting through the curation process.
More_Badass
Member
Would people be okay if the game was called "ISIS Must Die" or "Killing ISIS" or "Soldier Simulator"? Because despite the ideas people seem to be getting from that title, what it actually is, is a shitty FPS where you play a soldier killing ISIS.
Medal of Honor had you fighting Al Qaeda. CoD had you fighting Taliban and/or generic middle eastern terrorists
As for Suicide Simulator, such a concept depends on presentation. It's been around for years. Life Goes On, the Karoshi games, and others revolve around the "kill yourself to solve puzzles" mechanic. Killing Stickmen games existed on Flash well before that. Happy Wheels has you throwing yourself (and possibly your child) into gruesome traps for gory results
Medal of Honor had you fighting Al Qaeda. CoD had you fighting Taliban and/or generic middle eastern terrorists
As for Suicide Simulator, such a concept depends on presentation. It's been around for years. Life Goes On, the Karoshi games, and others revolve around the "kill yourself to solve puzzles" mechanic. Killing Stickmen games existed on Flash well before that. Happy Wheels has you throwing yourself (and possibly your child) into gruesome traps for gory results
Pretty much what Hektor and myself said a few pages ago, current "realistic shooters" are quite...the thing and yeah presentation is everything, and while being edgy, Suicide Simulator has a good disclaimer about the game;
So yeah presentation and mechanics is everything
Is not that I don't find it ethical or not, is ethic as business, that's all.
Nabs
Member
Yeah, it's super easy to do. https://store.steampowered.com/account/preferences/
It took me 20 seconds to add 3 tags and remove certain types of games from my homepage. Simple.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
The fact that origin, uplay, and GoG exist
dr_rus
Member
I mean, the actual source of this problem lies in the fact that there are many stupid people on the planet. So I would propose that we resort to solving this problem (by education and general improvement of life quality) instead of using censorship to curtain ourselves from stuff which we may not like.
No, the problem is that if Steam still had a curator you may have had to explain that to him, not me. As it is, I very much prefer having to discern myself between the actual good game and the one that isn't.
Every time I buy on Steam I'm paying VAT. Also, I can always report Steam to the authorities if I believe they're selling anything that I consider to be illegal. I don't see what libertarianism has to do with this.
My country was under a dictatorship not long ago. Very nice and kind people selected for my parents and grandparents the quality stuff they should be watching and reading. As it is now, Valve is a privately owned business. They may curate or not. I'm just glad they are not and that I can choose for myself what I want to consume. It's not libertarianism, it's democracy.
Primethius
Banned
This is exactly your point. If you believe they are only curating the garbage, good luck lol.
Because, then again, it's easy to claim "easy curation is to prevent this game from happening here". Although it's more difficult to claim where it does extend. Take this game for exemple:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/597220/West_of_Loathing/
It looks like garbage. If I was curating, I would've refused it. Although, looking at reviews now...
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/west-of-loathing
Yup. It seems to be actually a great game.
From the header, to the screenshots, it looked like a shitty shovelware game with no place here. You can bet if it was curated, this would've never released here.
And you know what ? I'm betting that everyone in this thread would've claimed the same before getting actual opinions on the game.
Arguing for minimal curation to prevent certain types of titles isn't the same as what you think I'm saying.
I didn't say, let's not put stuff that looks low budget on Steam. My posts were directed towards very specific kinds of games, as outlined in the OP.
Which is, this is a suicide simulator.
I don't agree that "no curation" is the way to go and throwing out that line as if it's some sort of argument all by itself doesn't mean much.
So let me make clear: I'm not asking for some overarching curation. My position basically intersects with one that looks at prohibiting blatantly offensive games from the platform. That's what the posts are about. If you want to move that argument away from curation into a censorship zone, be my guest and interpret my posts as such.
And since I'm fairly certain Steam prohibits some kinds of games, I'm not sure how my position of minimal curation is unreasonable.
Is it about the law or public morals? Report the game. Otherwise, that's what the courts of law are for. Is it about the quality of the games? People are free to buy them or not, why let others decide what is worthy of your time.
Don't see what the issue is.
GhostTrick
Banned
And you're missing my point. While it's easy to say Suicide Simulator is garbage, anyone could've said the same for West of Loathing. The garbage hunt will not only take real garbage, it'll take what looks like garbage with it.
And I prefer that the real garbage make it, because not only I wont see it, it also mean that what looks like garbage and is actually good will also make it and I may see it and be able to purchase it.
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
This hasn't just started within the last however many amount of months you've been away. These junk games have been there for a good while now.
I use Steam almost every day. At the very least once a week. I imagine I'd have to go looking for these kind of games to see them.
For example this is what I get in "New and Trending" on the front page:
When I went out of my way to look through the "New Releases" in the discovery queue. 7 out of 11 had positive/no reviews, 1 was negative and 3 were mixed (1 with mixed overall and positive recent). There is always going to be low quality games which is fine. Steam isn't exclusive to huge well known publishers but it's there for indie developers too and they aren't always gonna be great or even half decent.
I use Steam almost every day. At the very least once a week. I imagine I'd have to go looking for these kind of games to see them.
For example this is what I get in "New and Trending" on the front page:
When I went out of my way to look through the "New Releases" in the discovery queue. 7 out of 11 had positive/no reviews, 1 was negative and 3 were mixed (1 with mixed overall and positive recent). There is always going to be low quality games which is fine. Steam isn't exclusive to huge well known publishers but it's there for indie developers too and they aren't always gonna be great or even half decent.
More_Badass
Member
Is it because it's called a "simulator"? What about this?
http://store.steampowered.com/app/537340/Guts_and_Glory/
Where getting yourself killed in gruesome ways is half the appeal
Or Life Goes On?
http://store.steampowered.com/app/250050/Life_Goes_On_Done_to_Death/
Where killing yourself is the central mechanic and presented humorously
These are far gorier and more violent than this "Suicide Simulator", which is just a first person game where you kill yourself the same ways you do in thousands of other games. You run out of breath underwater. You were too close to an explosion. You were set on fire. You fell too far
Seems the problem aren't the games themselves, but the titles of the games and the assumptions people are making due to said titles