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[Panajev2001a]

I'm all for the idea of iterative Xbox consoles.

With the backward compatibly titles and how they're built, as well as seeing how the Xbox One OS is evolving, I can't see the team scrapping everything and starting over.

I do think we'll see forward compatibility with future Xbox consoles.

Backwards compatibility yes... frequently released / iterative consoles why (especially with cross generation forever forward compatibility )?

Everywhere in the tech sector the news is clear “technology advancements are slowing down, the cost between each major technology jump is increasing rapidly, the time it takes companies to achieve the next jump is increasing”... and we are asking for consoles / HW to be released more frequently?!? Doesn’t it seem counterintuitive at best?

 

[matrix-cat]

How?

Their "old stuff" meaning their old games. When a new generation comes out you'll be able to play your old games on it, not when a new generation comes out you'll be able to play all its new games on your eight-year-old console.

 

[GhostTrick]

PCs can do it.
Why not consoles, too?

Because it requires to have options. And options means a slight possibility of issues. If console games supported arbitrary resolution for exemple, it would lead to a lot of users complaining.

 

[Synth]

Depends on the game. For example Sonic Mania would have no problem running on last gen consoles, maybe in the future devs can support which xbox hardware they want from xbox one and onwards with very little additional programming because the tools, OS etc are universal.

Yea, this seems likely. If the newer console retains compatibility with the previous console's software, and you can target different performance profiles (and even assets) based on which console the user has... then it would make sense to allow even newly released games to ship for the previous hardware if it doesn't require anything beyond that. You probably wouldn't want the latest Assassin's Creed to need to run on the previous gen, but the next Shantae? Why split that into multiple SKUs?

Because it requires to have options. And options means a slight possibility of issues. If console games supported arbitrary resolution for exemple, it would lead to a lot of users complaining.

This is already happening though, and has been since the PS4 Pro. The resolutions aren't "arbitrary" though, they'd be presets that suit the fixed new hardware spec. If you take an approach like Respawn appears to be doing with Titanfall 2, you wouldn't even necessarily have to update the game in any way... it'd just scale as a result of the hardware being better.

 

[GhostTrick]

It's the same thing as PC guys. Really not that hard to figure out. Don't over complicate things.

Yeah... Not really. Branding is a thing and so is brand confusion.
It's a thing on PC because whenever you buy it in 2002 or 2022, it was still called a Windows PC game.
Here ? Unless they keep the brand Xbox One, it's going to be complicated.

And then again, forward compatibility also imply the need of an experience that the user can change thanks to options.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Sounds good to me! Going to be really interesting to watch this hobby of ours grow and develop over the next decade or so.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Their "old stuff" meaning their old games. When a new generation comes out you'll be able to play your old games on it, not when a new generation comes out you'll be able to play all its new games on your eight-year-old console.

Then why didn't he same games?

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

If in 50 years I can play Destiny 26 in 2000K resolution on my Xbox Fifteen X and then switch over to 900p on my Xbox One, I'll consider this messaging a success.

Microsoft is using the term forward compatibility purposefully.

They're really saying backward compatible, but saying backward insinuates the Xbox One family is coming to an end soon. Saying forward compatibility puts forward the premise that Xbox One as an ecosystem is hanging around for a while.

 

[Trup1aya]

Offering FC with a Jaguar CPU?!

Goodluck.gif


(Agree that he actually means BC)

I dont think it's just BC as we know it on console though. I think it's the idea of offering a platform where games can be programmed for dynamic performance and delivery so that old games are able to take advantage of future hardware without post release input from the dev - like on PC

 

[FyreWulff]

so basically GB/GC or DS/DSi or 3DS/new3DS. Games can ship and know about the later console while working on the other one.

Either way, I assuming MS is gonna stick with BC now after they got so many people back via 360 BC.

 

[*Splinter]

Well... He says it's not just backwards, but then all the examples he gives are backwards, so hopefully that's what he meant.

Forward compatibility would be the death of consoles.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Cross compatibly can be a type of compatibility, so not backwards doesn't necessarily mean forwards.

Allowing enhanced forwards compatibility in future consoles is sensible for a selection of titles, but perhaps not as a blanket rule.
I guess I'm confusing the line betweens BC and FC there, but imagine a 'runs best on XBox 2160' label.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

It's just the new PR lingo for backwards compatibility. Next gen games are NOT going to be tied to the Jaguar CPU, that just isn't viable if progress is to be made.

 

[KORNdoggy]

don't like the idea of this at all. backwards compatibility, sure, but forward compatibility is just going to neuter any new consoles they release since the games all have to run on old hardware.

 

[gofreak]

I'm pretty sure forward compatibility was explicitly part of the plan when they announced Scorpio. Also there's no reason it can't happen, especially with MS, it's basically what they've been doing with Windows since the beginning. Doing it with closed consoles only makes it easier to achieve, especially now that they're basically a PC hardware and software wise.

It raises all kinds of questions.

On PC devs can target whatever spec they like... what would the policy here be? All Xbox games going forward have to run on XB1 or XB1X? That's tying the 'next gen' of Xbox software to a pretty low CPU target...

Though there were hints of the idea of forward compatibility in the initial Scorpio announcement, I'd say they've been a lot more ambiguous and coy since, and for pretty good reason. I wouldn't say it's certain that they won't do it, but depending on developer demands in 2 or 3 years, I think it's very questionable.

 

[osnameless]

Nah. Sales of PS4 pro have been bad enough that generationless Sony isn't going to happen.

There will definitely be a PS5.

I am sorry...

Is "PS4 Pro sold poorly" a well-established thing?

It was my understanding that PS4 Pro's sales exceeded expectation

 

[KORNdoggy]

I am sorry...

Is "PS4 Pro sold poorly" a well-established thing?

It was my understanding that PS4 Pro's sales exceeded expectation

isn't one in 5 PS4's sold a pro SKU? or was? i mean, if people thought the pro was going to outsell the standard PS4, i can see why someone could think it sold "badly" but sony seem happy with the performance

 

[koutoru]

I think he's hinting at a situation were one build of a game can serve multiple generations, but the baseline for that build is set by the developers.

If this is true, I doubt it would be permanent as developers and consumers will gradually favor the newer console, and the baseline for development shifts.

The cons here would be that console games (at least in the beginning) wouldn't take full advantage of the newer generation until developers (or sales) decide to use the newer gen as a baseline.

 

[sixteen-bit]

forward compat doesn't sound good for business

 

[gypsygib]

If in 50 years I can play Destiny 26 in 2000K resolution on my Xbox Fifteen X and then switch over to 900p on my Xbox One, I'll consider this messaging a success.

I think they mean something more akin to how mobile games are compatible on both newer and older phones up to a point, which is the way to go. So in 6 years the minimum requirements may be an XBOX 1X to play something like Destiny 4.

 

[mckmas8808]

It makes sense.

I would be surprised if Sony doesn't do this as well.

Console gens might be dead.

Sony already said they aren't dead. Why do you people hating listening to Sony?

 

[ElfArmy177]

What are people anticipating is gonna be held back? Looks at PC games.... What exactly can PC games do that current Xbox one x and PS4 pro games can't?

They can all run MMO's, shooters, mobas, huge world's...

The only difference is LOD, texture quality, shader quality, ect. These are able to be scaled down to nothing... Jesus guys Doom is running on a switch! It's the same game.. on the switch!

Does everyone here think there is some magical game that can only work on a future console? We're not talking ps1 against a gtx 1080....

There is absolutely nothing current consoles can't run right now especially considering how easy it is for developers to scale assets now - specifically if using an engine such as unreal which does alot of work for you (from my understanding)

I say bring it on! I want my Xbox one to run Xbox four x games. Unless of course a single person here can make a valid argument on what exactly a new console 5 years from now can do that a current one can't. (I MIGHT give you the AI argument.... Maybe... But probably not because they will never spend as much time as you think on AI)

 

[mckmas8808]

I think they mean something more akin to how mobile games are compatible on both newer and older phones up to a point, which is the way to go. So in 6 years the minimum requirements may be an XBOX 1X to play something like Destiny 4.

So is MS willing to give the 1st party advantage to Sony that easily then? Because if Sony's devs are making games soley for a 12 TF console with 24 GBs of RAM and MS 1st party are making games for a 6 TF console with 12 GBs of RAM...........they'll be a clear and obvious difference no?

 

[The Pet of the Month]

Backwards compatibility yes... frequently released / iterative consoles why (especially with cross generation forever forward compatibility )?

Everywhere in the tech sector the news is clear “technology advancements are slowing down, the cost between each major technology jump is increasing rapidly, the time it takes companies to achieve the next jump is increasing”... and we are asking for consoles / HW to be released more frequently?!? Doesn’t it seem counterintuitive at best?

I'm not asking for consoles to be released more frequently, but rather consoles that run the same OS, behave the same as their predecessors, and allow developers to target specific consoles depending on whether they are capable of running the game or not.

The Xbox One X has a mode to test out games in an Xbox One and S environment, I don't see why future Xbox consoles can't do that.

 

[gelf]

Depends on the game. For example Sonic Mania would have no problem running on last gen consoles, maybe in the future devs can support which xbox hardware they want from xbox one and onwards with very little additional programming because the tools, OS etc are universal.

This is why I like the idea of forward compatibility. Making a small lightweight game only compatible with the latest high powered box despite not needing all that extra power as happens now seems crazy.

It's like how on PC while it's true that I can only play some high spec AAA games on my main desktop system there are also many recent releases that I can play on my basic intel graphics laptop as well.

 

[cookie-monster]

I'm all for keeping people like Ken Kuturagi away from developing a retarded new chip every generation.

 

[Septimus]

You've been Penello'd.

 

[Okami Haundo]

I feel like they've been hinting at this for quite some time now, while never fully committing to the idea. I think the real truth is that they're considering it, but we're too far out for them to 100% promise one way or the other.

I know that I would personally love the idea of Xbox sticking with the iterative model. Obviously we wouldn't get new hardware every single year, but every 3-4 sounds reasonable. Every new console release would start to drop support for the lowest option. In this case, Xbox Two means that Xbox One is no longer getting games and/or OS updates.

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm all for keeping people like Ken Kuturagi away from developing a retarded new chip every generation.

That's not what this means.

 

[Windu]

Sounds good.

 

[g11]

Honestly that's how it should be. If, for instance, PS4 games are not forward compatible to PS5, I'm gonna be one mad hombre.

 

[Sad Affleck]

I'd like to see what will happen if one company goes with a hard generational reset and the other chooses forward compatibility. How would third-party development accommodate both platforms? I imagine that game's would still be designed for the lowest common denominator.

 

[cakely]

That's probably not what this means.

Think it through guys ... do you really want to have Halo 7 designed so it can run on a Jaguar processor from 2013?

Backwards compatibility for consoles is a terrific idea. Forward compatibility really isn't.

Honestly that's how it should be. If, for instance, PS4 games are not forward compatible to PS5, I'm gonna be one mad hombre.

Playing PS4 games on a PS5 is backwards compatibility.

Playing PS5 games on a PS4 is forwards compatibility.

 

[always crazy bacon]

Makes sense to support your back catalog if it already exists digitally. I can find a cult classic movie for a new device, but it's hard for a cult game.

 

[Toki767]

Honestly that's how it should be. If, for instance, PS4 games are not forward compatible to PS5, I'm gonna be one mad hombre.

I think you're confusing forward compatible with backwards compatible.

 

[LukasTaves]

Offering FC with a Jaguar CPU?!

Goodluck.gif


(Agree that he actually means BC)

Not every game will make use of every ounce of power whatever cpu the next console uses, just as not every game pushes even the puny jaguars to the maximum.

So many switch and iOS ports shows more than anything that many games can be scaled back, and I dunno the jump from xbonex to xbone2 will as big as the current gap between xbone and mobile.

 

[LukasTaves]

Think it through guys ... do you really want to have Halo 7 designed so it can run on a Jaguar processor from 2013?

No, I want it designed for the next gen cpu, but that doesn't mean that it can't be scaled back to a jaguar.

Going 60fps to 30 fps would do wonders already. 343 already has different time slices for updating entities in the engine, so lots of scalability there as well.

I honestly doubt they could come up with a game that makes impossible to run at 30fps on xbonex with even more aggressive lower rate updates than Halo 5 on xbone.

 

[civilstrife]

Calling it now,

PS4 Pro and XBX are going to be able to play PS5 and XB2 games.

Games are going to straddle generations.

It makes sense on so many levels, but best of all, we won't have to suffer through the inevitable early dry years of console launches. Publishers won't have to worry about expending massive resources on games for platforms with low install bases.

This is best for everyone.

And here comes the hottest of takes:

For lovers of the Switch model, it also means that Sony could conceivably release a handheld hybrid in 5-ish years that plays then current gen PS5 games, because every game will already have a mode for PS4-pro level hardware, which should be achievable in the handheld space before long.

 

[Zedox]

Yeah... Not really. Branding is a thing and so is brand confusion.
It's a thing on PC because whenever you buy it in 2002 or 2022, it was still called a Windows PC game.
Here ? Unless they keep the brand Xbox One, it's going to be complicated.

And then again, forward compatibility also imply the need of an experience that the user can change thanks to options.

No. As of this fall...you basically (not 100%) will be able to buy all Xbox games, no matter the "generation" as long as you have a Xbox One or higher. So basically going forward, you just guy Xbox games. Compatibility is based off of what the dev says, just like PC.

 

[Fredrik]

Think it through guys ... do you really want to have Halo 7 designed so it can run on a Jaguar processor from 2013?

Backwards compatibility for consoles is a terrific idea. Forward compatibility really isn't.



Playing PS4 games on a PS5 is backwards compatibility.

Playing PS5 games on a PS4 is forwards compatibility.

On PC you have minimum requirements to fix that problem, I expect the same to appear on consoles.
Minimum requirements: Xbox One X.
Recommended requirements: Xbox Two X

 

[Okami Haundo]

That's probably not what this means.

Think it through guys ... do you really want to have Halo 7 designed so it can run on a Jaguar processor from 2013?

Backwards compatibility for consoles is a terrific idea. Forward compatibility really isn't.

I would definitely be down for a Halo 7 that ran on Xbox One X and Xbox Two. Going back to One S seems like it would be stretching things too thing, so I can definitely agree with you there.

I feel that most advocates for forward compatibility (like myself) would only expect support to stretch back one hardware model.

 

[mcrommert]

Truly serious with this...if they can actually deliver this with experiences not just on next console but on pc and beyond...i don't know how sony can actually respond to this

Less as a gamer and more as a piece of technology and platform this is super exciting to watch

 

[Windu]

The main question is how low to go with the min spec, and how long to support it. You can see this kind of scale already on consoles already though, Rise of the Tomb Raider is on Xbox 360, Xbox One and Xbox One X. It looks fine imo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=432&v=2vlG6rHb9V0

Having the tools and hardware in place to make it easier for devs to do this will make it even better. With Games making money over a longer period of time (you can see it really well on the pc), it makes sense to take go the pc route and scale games across different console hardware. More choice, better prices and more consumers buying games will lead to a healthier market.

 

[flkraven]

I think the success of remasters and the year of support devs kept giving to 'last gen' which arguably hindered 'current gen' during the early life of PS4/XB1 is what brought us iterative consoles.

Along with this, digital libraries have helped breed an expectation that all of the stuff purchased will continue working through generations. Likewise, monthly subscriptions to things like Xbox Live or EA Access have given them every incentive in the world to keep consoles forward's compatible so those that can't upgrade won't feel left behind, and will continue to pay for these services.

 

[gofreak]

Not every game will make use of every ounce of power whatever cpu the next console uses, just as not every game pushes even the puny jaguars to the maximum.

I can see single-sku 'cross-gen' games working in this way...but I think that's a bit of a different scenario than a general 'forwards compatibility' that extends across all Xbox games next-gen.

 

[Lord Error]

It's cool that they care about compatibility. I do too. General public however - if the iOS11 rollout has thought me anything - don't seem to give rat's ass about it. I have a feeling software, games in particular are seen as little more than disposables/consumables.

 

[paulogy]

I take this to mean Xbox One X games will work on Windows PC

Spoiler

Because there isn't going to be another Xbox

 

[btrboyev]

If they stay on X86 and keep the OS based on windows like it is now, then compatibility shouldn’t be too hard.

 

[cakely]

So, when Xbox Two launches in November 2020, who here is going to not buy the new, hot, 12 TB console, and instead just buy Xbox Two games and play them on their Xbox One?

Because that's what we're talking about.

 

[Okami Haundo]

So, when Xbox Two launches in November 2020, who here is going to not buy the new, hot, 12 TB console, and instead just buy Xbox Two games and play them on their Xbox One?

Because that's what we're talking about.

As I said in my previous reply, I don't think folks are realistically expecting Xbox Two games to run on Xbox One S. Xbox Two/Xbox One X however, would be a lovely proposition. In that example, the person you're asking this question to would either be buying new hardware (early adopter) or buying/sticking to the slightly older hardware (late adopter).