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Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?

NOKYARD

Member
Their reputation was so toxic that they got banned from submitting maps by Bungie in a public post in 2008 because their community members would stalk and harass anyone that submitted maps to the ATLAS community map process for Halo 3 and didn't kiss feet over at FH first.

They were the_donald of dot maps

The place was extremely toxic at the time but you make it sound as if it's the same people. Other than myself and maybe 3 others i don't know of any present active members who were there in 2008. Forgehub has changed ownership several times since then.

[edit] I should also clarify they were never actually banned from the map submission process. We deemed that would be unfair to the ForgeHub community members who were not involved with the harassment. By the time the next map submission window opened i had volunteered to act as an intermediary between FH and Atlas and all MM submissions were submitted to a specific forum at ForgeHub. Three maps made it into Matchmaking through this process with zero drama.
 
So the last Halo I played was Reach in 2010, and I haven't seen, watched, read, or played anything made since then. It's like I've time traveled from 2010. In that time there have apparently been a metric shit-ton of books, comics, animated features, and games that have hugely expanded the lore since I was last familiar with it.

So what I'm asking is, is there some sort of crash-course on everything that's happened in the Halo universe since Halo 3/Reach?

Oh boy, wow.

Best idea would be to go ask Grimbrotherone on Twitter for his suggestions:
https://twitter.com/GrimBrotherOne

You may recognize his name from the Halo.Bungie.Org forum, he handles all Halo lore now officially.
 
So the last Halo I played was Reach in 2010, and I haven't seen, watched, read, or played anything made since then. It's like I've time travelled from 2010. In that time there have apparently been a metric shit-ton of books, comics, animated features, and games that have hugely expanded the lore since I was last familiar with it.

So what I'm asking is, is there some sort of crash-course on everything that's happened in the Halo universe since Halo 3/Reach?

Get the Halo Mythos book. Nice art and summarized a ton of the Lore.

Yeah, the Mythos book is official current summary, and pretty nice.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I should the incredibly snappy hashtag sequel to #FixMCC, #MakeAllTheseDamnArtbooksHaveADigitalReleaseMyApartmentAintGotRoomForMorePhysicalStuff
 
Hey Nokyard,

Any idea why the grenade blast radius is so large in the H3 playlist?

Edit: Oddball is so damn fun...

Halo 3's grenades had a pretty large blast radius, but sizing in general was skewed a bit in H3 because of how low the FOV was. The vehicles and stuff were bigger than some of the Reach incarnations, you just couldn't tell because you didn't have as wide a perspective.
 

Cranster

Banned
Halo 3's grenades had a pretty large blast radius, but sizing in general was skewed a bit in H3 because of how low the FOV was. The vehicles and stuff were bigger than some of the Reach incarnations, you just couldn't tell because you didn't have as wide a perspective.

It's more than just and FOV thing. Halo 3 grenades (and rockets) did much less splash damage and had a smaller blast radius than Halo 2.
 

Trup1aya

Member
No idea. I'm the map guy. We didn't get to see the game type before it shipped.

Oh really ?!?! That's an interesting process. Thanks!

Halo 3's grenades had a pretty large blast radius, but sizing in general was skewed a bit in H3 because of how low the FOV was. The vehicles and stuff were bigger than some of the Reach incarnations, you just couldn't tell because you didn't have as wide a perspective.

Really? I seem to remember being able to sidestep grenades with much more success than I'm able to in in the H3 playlist. It feels like I need thrust in order to get away now (which obviously isn't an option). I assumed they didn't touch the grenades for the playlist - iirc you can change grenade damage and blast radius in custom game settings.
 

NOKYARD

Member
Oh really ?!?! That's an interesting process. Thanks!



Really? I seem to remember being able to sidestep grenades with much more success than I'm able to in in the H3 playlist. It feels like I need thrust in order to get away now (which obviously isn't an option). I assumed they didn't touch the grenades for the playlist - iirc you can change grenade damage and blast radius in custom game settings.
We were given a game type close to final settings for testing. I believe they built a variant with custom values (not available to us) which were closer to H3s buried under the displayed settings. I am not certain where they landed with that.
 

E92 M3

Member
Thanks to ESL's horrible handling of the league, I've practically lost all interest in watching competitive Halo - and that's a damn shame.
 
Thanks to ESL's horrible handling of the league, I've practically lost all interest in watching competitive Halo - and that's a damn shame.

I cant anymore. I know they can only play on certain maps and all that but i feel like im watching the same feed every time. I just cant anymore
 

jem0208

Member
Something interesting I've noticed about the throwback playlist.

I've already said that I don't enjoy the gameplay as much as normal H5. However, I've noticed that despite that I can play more of it before wanting to stop. It feels slower and less hectic than normal (inb4 someone tells me I'm wrong to think it feels slower) which makes playing it for an extended period of time a bit easier.
 

Trup1aya

Member
We were given a game type close to final settings for testing. I believe they built a variant with custom values (not available to us) which were closer to H3s buried under the displayed settings. I am not certain where they landed with that.

Thanks for the insight
 

Trup1aya

Member
Something interesting I've noticed about the throwback playlist.

I've already said that I don't enjoy the gameplay as much as normal H5. However, I've noticed that despite that I can play more of it before wanting to stop. It feels slower and less hectic than normal (inb4 someone tells me I'm wrong to think it feels slower) which makes playing it for an extended period of time a bit easier.

It's weird man- games in the H3 playlist are shorter, gunfights more frequently end in someone actually dying, and - since running away is more difficult- there is more constant action as often the ONLY defensive play is to shoot back.

All of that makes the game feel fast, yet it's still manages to feel methodical. I don't know if I'd say it's less hectic, ( the Open sitelines mean your almost always under fire) but I do feel like it's easier to think tactically- maybe because I get to spend more time thinking about where I need to be going and less time thinking about what buttons I need to press to get there.

H5 feels fast to me because I'm constantly having to make a ton of inputs, quickly, in order to survive. But the game simultaneously feels slow because there are often a ton of ways to prolong an engagement.

It's weird. H3 feels fast, yet slow. H5 feels fast, yet slow, but in a totally difference ways.

I'm starting to think it's the simplicity of the experience in he H3 playlist that makes the game feel more relaxing to me, even though I'm more often under a hail of gunfire with no way to retreat.
 

Juan

Member
I'm definitely not having fun at all with the H3 playlist due to the sandbox being overall not suited for those maps and the speed we are moving at. It frustrates me more than anything I've played before in Halo 5, and I can tell you Halo 5 has been the most frustrating game I've ever play before (and I played Dark Souls).

On top of that, it's getting almost impossible to find a game in the tuning playlist, I guess there aren't much players since a lot of them don't really like those changes and are more willing to play the H3 playlist, Warzone or social stuff waiting for the old settings to come back.

To bad because when I can find a game in the tuned playlist (after waiting like 10 minutes), I'm really enjoying what I'm playing and I'm having a ton of fun with those settings.

On a side note, after playing some games in the H3 playlist and getting used to the no-spread-at-all BR, I understand why people may be upset with the random spread, since I've been used to hit my target at anytime now with Halo 5. It doesn't bother me much, but I got that feel of "Hey, with the Halo 5 BR, I would have kill him without a doubt".

So yeah, if it can be tested, I would happy to try what Trup proposed, aka decreased RRR and fixed spread with low bullet magnetism to allow the BR to shine at close/mid range and not being really effective at long range.
 

Trup1aya

Member
How is the classic playlist? I don't have a copy of Halo 5 with me at the moment so I can't try it out.

I'm really enjoying it.

The H5 sandbox is not well suited for the play style, but it's still fun none the less. It's nice to be able to fall back on old tactics and have a simpler control scheme.

Forgers did a great job with the maps.
 

jem0208

Member
It's weird man- games in the H3 playlist are shorter, gunfights more frequently end in someone actually dying, and - since running away is more difficult- there is more constant action as often the ONLY defensive play is to shoot back.

All of that makes the game feel fast, yet it's still manages to feel methodical. I don't know if I'd say it's less hectic, ( the Open sitelines mean your almost always under fire) but I do feel like it's easier to think tactically- maybe because I get to spend more time thinking about where I need to be going and less time thinking about what buttons I need to press to get there.

H5 feels fast to me because I'm constantly having to make a ton of inputs, quickly, in order to survive. But the game simultaneously feels slow because there are often a ton of ways to prolong an engagement.

It's weird. H3 feels fast, yet slow. H5 feels fast, yet slow, but in a totally difference ways.

I'm starting to think it's the simplicity of the experience in he H3 playlist that makes the game feel more relaxing to me, even though I'm more often under a hail of gunfire with no way to retreat.


I agree with a lot of what you're saying, I think you're right about how one of the reasons H5 feels hectic and fast is because of the number of inputs which are required to survive in certain situations. I personally quite like that (I can understand why people might not though), I enjoy how the game requires mechanical skill beyond just aiming.

I disagree with a couple of points though.

I feel like normal H5 has fewer breaks in the action, mostly because of how quickly you can get back into the fight after dying. There's been a number of times in the new playlist where I've respawned on one side of the map, started wandering over to where the fight is only to find everyone has already died. In normal H5 I find it's very rare that I'm having to wander around looking for the enemy.

I don't really understand this idea that prolonging engagements makes the game feel slower either. Obviously it'll increase the amount of time a match lasts for but a firefight which ends with both combatants still alive is still action therefore it doesn't make the game feel slower to me.

I feel like there's two distinct types of 'pace' which we're discussing simultaneously here: the pace at which a match progresses and the speed of the moment to moment gameplay. I think the H3 playlist has a faster 'match pace' but the moment to moment gameplay feels slower to me whereas the reverse is the case for normal H5.

Then again, maybe I'm talking rubbish, I don't know. To me normal H5 feels faster.



Edit: Here's an odd little bug I've not seen before. Currently every single playlist has the featured star next to it.
 

Trup1aya

Member
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, I think you're right about how one of the reasons H5 feels hectic and fast is because of the number of inputs which are required to survive in certain situations. I personally quite like that (I can understand why people might not though), I enjoy how the game requires mechanical skill beyond just aiming.

Interesting take. I dont generally feel like more mechanical "skill" is required- just more dexterity. Its easier to clamber over a wall than spring jump over one. Its easier to thrust behind cover than it to locate your threat and strafe to safety or deal enough damage to back him off. Its easier to clear gaps when thrust, clamber and GP are around to bail you out. Without them, you are either pixel perfect or you fall.

I disagree with a couple of points though.

I feel like normal H5 has fewer breaks in the action, mostly because of how quickly you can get back into the fight after dying. There's been a number of times in the new playlist where I've respawned on one side of the map, started wandering over to where the fight is only to find everyone has already died. In normal H5 I find it's very rare that I'm having to wander around looking for the enemy.

I disagree, and I feel like this comes down to map design. In h3, more often than not, all it takes is a few steps and YOU have line-of-site to other high traffic parts if the map. Bungies philosphy was to use distance instead of obstacles to segment the map

In h5, there are walls and hallways EVERYWHERE, as a means to segment the map. This is likely intentional- meant to counter the fluidity that would otherwise be provided by SAs. The result is a maze like design that provides pockets of downtime.

I don't really understand this idea that prolonging engagements makes the game feel slower either. Obviously it'll increase the amount of time a match lasts for but a firefight which ends with both combatants still alive is still action therefore it doesn't make the game feel slower to me.

I guess this comes down to semantics. If the point of an engagement is kill someone, then many would consider the option that completes that objective more frequently to be the faster option.


I feel like there's two distinct types of 'pace' which we're discussing simultaneously here: the pace at which a match progresses and the speed of the moment to moment gameplay. I think the H3 playlist has a faster 'match pace' but the moment to moment gameplay feels slower to me whereas the reverse is the case for normal H5.

I cant argue with that.

I feel like h3 feels fast because you are constantly in engagenents and they are decided quickly.

It feels slow because movement is deliberate

H5 feels fast because you are constantly making a lot of inputs. It feels slow because egagements often reset.


One thing I've noticed is that the normal radar doesnt seem to slow down match progression in h3 they way it did in h5. Which, again, i think boils down to the different approach to segmenting maps. If the h3 playlist didn't have radar it would be SOOO fast.
 
i think i finally get it, i think i finally understand what it is about classic halo gameplay that you guys love so much.

thanks in large part to jem and trup's most recent posts, i think i finally get it, and i understand / appreciate it.

took me a long time, but you finally said the right words i guess.

edit: omfg, i just got a snipeltaneous medal... i can die happy!
 

Trup1aya

Member
i think i finally get it, i think i finally understand what it is about classic halo gameplay that you guys love so much.

thanks in large part to jem and trup's most recent posts, i think i finally get it, and i understand / appreciate it.

took me a long time, but you finally said the right words i guess.

edit: omfg, i just got a snipeltaneous medal... i can die happy!

This put a smile on my face
 
I cant argue with that.

I feel like h3 feels fast because you are constantly in engagenents and they are decided quickly.

It feels slow because movement is deliberate

H5 feels fast because you are constantly making a lot of inputs. It feels slow because egagements often reset.


One thing I've noticed is that the normal radar doesnt seem to slow down match progression in h3 they way it did in h5. Which, again, i think boils down to the different approach to segmenting maps. If the h3 playlist didn't have radar it would be SOOO fast.

I wonder if whether its possible to achieve both kinds of pacing simultaneously. Perhaps there's some healthy equilibrium.

Also OT, but I've started Rainbow Six Siege at the recommendation of Elzar are others. It's bloody great.
 
I disagree, and I feel like this comes down to map design. In h3, more often than not, all it takes is a few steps and YOU have line-of-site to other high traffic parts if the map. Bungies philosphy was to use distance instead of obstacles to segment the map

In h5, there are walls and hallways EVERYWHERE, as a means to segment the map. This is likely intentional- meant to counter the fluidity that would otherwise be provided by SAs. The result is a maze like design that provides pockets of downtime
This perfectly sums up my issue with Halo 5's map design, a lot of them feel way too claustrophobic, especially when sprint and thrusters are factored in.
 

Trup1aya

Member
I wonder if whether its possible to achieve both kinds of pacing simultaneously. Perhaps there's some healthy equilibrium.

I think so. It would hinge on tweaking movement mechanics so that they are more useful at continuing and/or reversing engagements than they are at resetting them. Also simplify the control scheme by adding context sensitive functions to basic actions.

Replace The current sprint with "always sprint". A high base movement speed. Theyd use all the effects to make it feel faster when moving forward for a few moments (arm waving, wind effects, thruster sound, widen FOV, etc), but never disable the ability to shoot. [We just freed up a button]

I'd nerf the range of thrust- making it more of a exaggerated side-step. I'd shrink the cool-down to be a tad longer than the RoF is for the utility weapon. I'd buff it by having it cancel magnetism, so with good timing its used to dodge shots and melees. When airborne, you'd only be able to use it once.

Stabilize would replace clamber- tap A while airborne to hover. No need to zoom in. Do it at the apex and it will extend the height of your jump.

I'd turn GP with into "quick drop": tap melee while airborne and you'll thrust downward. (This would be context sensitive, if you're aimed at an opponent in melee range, you'll do a melee). Only direct hits would deal damage. 1HK if drop is far enough

I think this would add mechanical depth As players could use stabilizers and quick drop to mix in some "air strafe" in addition to the H5 lateral strafe+thruster. It would also allow for a more traditional approach to map design since they wouldnt need massive walls and hallways to counteract sprint and clamber.

It also would have simpler control scheme compared to H5s .
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
That sounds interesting, but tapping melee in mid air for gp would be problematic at the very least. I'd prefer any other way to keep gp (if indeed I'd actually want to keep it), but once again fucking with air melees is not the way I'd go.
 

Trup1aya

Member
That sounds interesting, but tapping melee in mid air for gp would be problematic at the very least. I'd prefer any other way to keep gp (if indeed I'd actually want to keep it), but once again fucking with air melees is not the way I'd go.

It wouldnt fuck with aim Melees at all. If you are in melee range, it would just do a melee.

The current way actually fucks with air melee, because there is a delay as the game tries to dechiper if you are intending to melee or hold for a ground pound.

My way eliminates the need for a pause, or a hold- if you are clearly trying to melee someone (i.e. you are aimed at them, in melee range and hit the melee button) , it will melee. If you aren't - you will drop.

That said, w/o sprint, we do have an extra face button. Could use that for quick drop (but I'd rather use it for changing grenades).

Just make Ground Pound Jump + Melee.

That would would work too, but might move back towards making basic movement overly-complicated.
 

FyreWulff

Member
All the movement options need to be one-button

thrust should be A+A in mid air.

ground pound, if it is to stick around, should be A + (Hold A)

Spartan Charge should be clicking the stick at the end of a sprint

In general, I feel the modifications to the action can be done with the action that initiates them. and would flow better.
 
I wonder if whether its possible to achieve both kinds of pacing simultaneously. Perhaps there's some healthy equilibrium.
Yeah, by just removing sprint really.
All the movement options need to be one-button

thrust should be A+A in mid air.

ground pound, if it is to stick around, should be A + (Hold A)

Spartan Charge should be clicking the stick at the end of a sprint

In general, I feel the modifications to the action can be done with the action that initiates them. and would flow better.
Sounds similar to Gears and how the A button does everything for the default control scheme. That could be nice, but personally I rather have separate buttons for these actions like we have now. Maybe Halo 6 will be the first Halo game to allow custom controls?

Right?

Possibly?

Nah.
 

FyreWulff

Member
The option of both is fine, but I won't shy away from saying Halo controls have gotten a little too complicated for being an arcade shooter.

I'm already annoyed in Destiny 2 that the subclass ability button is the same one for sliding, so half the time when i want to deploy a shield, i just slide to my doom
 

Trup1aya

Member
All the movement options need to be one-button

thrust should be A+A in mid air.

ground pound, if it is to stick around, should be A + (Hold A)

Spartan Charge should be clicking the stick at the end of a sprint

In general, I feel the modifications to the action can be done with the action that initiates them. and would flow better.

I didn't think about hold. That would work too, but anytime you include hold, you add a delay to tapping.


How about replacing the sprint button with "decend"?

Controls would be:
Jump
Jump while airborne- stabilize

Decend while running= slide
Decend while airborne= drop/GP

Melee

Thrust
Thrust-->melee = Spartan Charge
nevermind,fuck Spartan charge


Everything else would remain the same
 
Thinking about it now, it's surprising that pressing jump a second time isn't how you stabilize when it's not set to auto.

As for ground pound, I prefer that as melee and not crouch. Making it crouch would negatively impact crouch-jumping.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Thinking about it now, it's surprising that pressing jump a second time isn't how you stabilize when it's not set to auto.

As for ground pound, I prefer that as melee and not crouch. Making it crouch would negatively impact crouch-jumping.

Having it at crouch is definately out of the question.

i prefer melee too- since it is a sort of melee attack.
 
i just wish none of my button presses required pressing down on a thumb-stick, crouch annoys the fuck out of me, but sprint is infuriating [i literally get numb thumb after awhile].

edit: mind you, i cut the tip of my left thumb nearly off when i was a cook in my uni days, which never got 100% of its feeling back [it's like, 96% feeling, 4% missing], so perhaps i'm a unique case... :/ [although i still always hated thumb-stick presses as inputs in general before said incident]
 

Trup1aya

Member
i just wish none of my button presses required pressing down on a thumb-stick, crouch annoys the fuck out of me, but sprint is infuriating [i literally get numb thumb after awhile].

edit: mind you, i cut the tip of my left thumb nearly off when i was a cook in my uni days, which never got 100% of its feeling back [it's like, 96% feeling, 4% missing], so perhaps i'm a unique case... :/ [although i still always hated thumb-stick presses as inputs in general before said incident]

I feel ya, but I don't see how halo could work w/o crouch on left thumb stick.
 
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