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Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?

T

Trup1aya

Member
Juan said:
I don't know how you do that. The settings are fine now and the playlist is better than before, but the OP BR and the overall sandbox keep me away from enjoying any game in this playlist. Guardian is a nightmare, Citadel is only playing one base from another one thanks to the OP BR, same for snowbound...

I would rather prefer play Halo 3 on the MCC since it's also 60fps.

At least, it clearly demonstrated Halo can still work with classic settings, according the sandbox and the maps fit the gameplay.
Click to expand...

I'm really enjoying myself. It definately has issues, but I'm having fun, and the potential excites me.

The Gaurdian slayer is definately bad, manly due to BR but Oddball reduces that issue because it forces constant movement anyway.

I haven't had that problem with citadel... plenty of movement. Again objective gametypes mask the BR problem a bit.

I actually had some fun slayer matches games on isolation and snowbound to day, which is something I NEVER could have said about MCC.

I probably COULD jump into MCC or BC and have a good time, but I don't want to deal with the lengthy matchmaking nor the veto system.
 
M

Munch Poke

Member
jem0208 said:
Thrust isn't a magical button which saves you from any dangerous sitaution. You still need to have good map awareness and movement to outsmart your opponent.

I also completely disagree that thrust encourages people to run away. It encourages the exact opposite of that. It allows players to move out further, engage and generally take more risks.
Click to expand...

God man, some people want nothing more than H2 or H3 movement forever.

I'm always gonna stan for sprint, but I've accepted that's a controversial view. Now I'm seeing people say thrust is bad too? There is the MCC for those that want to just play the old way forever.

I love thrust, the extra movement option is just what this series has needed. I always picked thrust in H4 over all the other abilities. Between ninjaing, bursting back behind cover, or simply making a close quarters melee it really gives the gameplay much needed quickness.

Plus as someone who loves the melee mechanic I don't think I could go back now.
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
Munch Poke said:
God man, some people want nothing more than H2 or H3 movement forever.

I'm always gonna stan for sprint, but I've accepted that's a controversial view. Now I'm seeing people say thrust is bad too? There is the MCC for those that want to just play the old way forever.

I love thrust, the extra movement option is just what this series has needed. I always picked thrust in H4 over all the other abilities. Between ninjaing, bursting back behind cover, or simply making a close quarters melee it really gives the gameplay much needed quickness.

Plus as someone who loves the melee mechanic I don't think I could go back now.
Click to expand...

This annoying strawman argument.

It's not that people only want H2 or H3 movement. They just don't like the effects that SAs have on the rest of the sandbox.

Thrust- as implemented, requires concessions to be made all over the sandbox. For example, the grenade blast radius is such that you HAVE to thrust to dodge, at which point you be come a sitting duck for any other attack.

Use thrust to win your 1v1? Great now you are weaker AND slower than the next guy that challenges you.

The benefits of thrust can be had with a simple lateral acceleration, that doesn't immediately penalize you for dodging like you are supposed to.

I'm all for thinking up new new ways to move, but I don't understand why it has to be tied to taking things AWAY from the player.
 
J

Juan

Member
Fata1moose said:
Instead, with Halo 6 proper developer tools should be released to make developer equivalent maps. Forge can then be regulated to map editing, not map creating. Of course that would remove console owner's ability to create maps, but it'd be for the benefit of the entire community.
Click to expand...

You can still have Forge for console with basic & advanced editing mode, then give PC users proper developer tools.

I mean, Halo Custom Edition did, and to this day, people are still creating maps for this game, and with new players come possibilities and new ideas.

I'm myself working on a PvE map I always wanted to play in a Halo thanks to those developer tools we got with Custom Edition. It's not that easy at first, especially when working with AI and handcrafted scripts, but it free my mind and allow me to do almost everything I want.

That would be even easier for a PvP map. Of course, with average players, we can't guarantee as much quality as developer maps, but for some people like Masterz, or other HaloMaps.org creators, this would allow for a whole new field of possibilities.

Munch Poke said:
-ship-
Click to expand...

I think we don't want old Halo as much as we don't really like how spartan abilities impacted gameplay and the sandbox overall. Sure, basic movements don't add that feel you're playing a super advanced soldier, but the gameplay was still top-notch and could give Halo the benefit to evolve its sandbox and not the player empowerment.

Plus, when I'm reading this:

Munch Poke said:
bursting back behind cover,
Click to expand...

It add to the sense that people are using Thruster more like a run away card than anything.
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
Juan said:
You can still have Forge for console with basic & advanced editing mode, then give PC users proper developer tools.

I mean, Halo Custom Edition did, and to this day, people are still creating maps for this game, and with new players come possibilities and new ideas.

I'm myself working on a PvE map I always wanted to play in a Halo thanks to those developer tools we got with Custom Edition. It's not that easy at first, especially when working with AI and handcrafted scripts, but it free my mind and allow me to do almost everything I want.

That would be even easier for a PvP map. Of course, with average players, we can't guarantee as much quality as developer maps, but for some people like Masterz, or other HaloMaps.org creators, this would allow for a whole new field of possibilities.
Click to expand...

They wouldn't even have to gimp the Console version of Forge. Mouse and Keyboard is coming.
 
J

Juan

Member
Trup1aya said:
They wouldn't even have to gimp the Console version of Forge. Mouse and Keyboard is coming.
Click to expand...

I'm mostly saying this because unless 343 really reworked every tools they have, I don't think they have a full-suited proprietary 3D software to create the geometry and the overall mesh needed for a full suited 3D maps.

You still need third party softwares like 3Ds Max or Maya.

Plus, the actual controls for the Forge are way too complicated for average users (I include myself) compared to what they used to be with Halo 3, Halo Reach, Halo 4 or H2A, that's why I was suggesting a basic and advanced mode usable with controllers.
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
Juan said:
I'm mostly saying this because unless 343 really reworked every tools they have, I don't think they have a full-suited proprietary 3D software to create the geometry and the overall mesh needed for a full suited 3D maps.

You still need third party softwares like 3Ds Max or Maya.

Plus, the actual controls for the Forge are way too complicated for average users (I include myself) compared to what they used to be with Halo 3, Halo Reach, Halo 4 or H2A, that's why I was suggesting a basic and advanced mode usable with controllers.
Click to expand...

Oh I see. I didn't realize CE was so robust.
 
M

Munch Poke

Member
Juan said:
I think we don't want old Halo as much as we don't really like how spartan abilities impacted gameplay and the sandbox overall. Sure, basic movements don't add that feel you're playing a super advanced soldier, but the gameplay was still top-notch and could give Halo the benefit to evolve its sandbox and not the player empowerment.

Plus, when I'm reading this:



It add to the sense that people are using Thruster more like a run away card than anything.
Click to expand...

To each their own as far as individuals tastes go. I personally love the abilties, and I'm very happy everyone has the same abilities unlike having to predict which armor ability I'm up against.

I've never understood the argument about people using it as a run away card. But I've been having this particular discussion since being a sprint user in Reach.

If I was your teammate, and as I step around a corner took a shot from an opponent, what would you want me to do? Blindly charge and hope I can win the BR duel after losing the first shot advantage? Try to run up and double melee? No, you'd hope your teammate is smart enough to identify a losing battle and act accordingly. Not every fight can be won, and in this instance of thrusting back I can now reposition, call out to my team where I took fire from and continue playing. All without giving the opposing team a point.

Sure I could just back off around a corner, thrusting is obviously quicker, but using it could cost me in the moments afterwards. It's not a get out of jail card because now I can't use it if another enemy player has flanked me.

I know how divisive the community is over all movement abilities, and frankly any change to the overall sandbox, but I feel that thrust is one of the most universally best improvements Halo 4 and 5 have given us.

You can take my sprint, but please God not my thruster.
 
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
Obligatory no weapon has ever felt as good to use as the CE Pistol post.

It shoots fast. It's strong. It doesn't obstruct your view. It's skillful. It's rewarding. It looks sexy. Damn, what a great weapon.

cXvuk3Y.gif


lb9Icrn.png
lb9Icrn.png
lb9Icrn.png
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
Munch Poke said:
To each their own as far as individuals tastes go. I personally love the abilties, and I'm very happy everyone has the same abilities unlike having to predict which armor ability I'm up against.

I've never understood the argument about people using it as a run away card. But I've been having this particular discussion since being a sprint user in Reach.

If I was your teammate, and as I step around a corner took a shot from an opponent, what would you want me to do? Blindly charge and hope I can win the BR duel after losing the first shot advantage? Try to run up and double melee? No, you'd hope your teammate is smart enough to identify a losing battle and act accordingly. Not every fight can be won, and in this instance of thrusting back I can now reposition, call out to my team where I took fire from and continue playing. All without giving the opposing team a point.

Sure I could just back off around a corner, thrusting is obviously quicker, but using it could cost me in the moments afterwards. It's not a get out of jail card because now I can't use it if another enemy player has flanked me.

I know how divisive the community is over all movement abilities, and frankly any change to the overall sandbox, but I feel that thrust is one of the most universally best improvements Halo 4 and 5 have given us.

You can take my sprint, but please God not my thruster.
Click to expand...

I think your missing the point.

People find it frustrating that players are getting away with what previously would be punished with death.

You can be completely oblivious to an opponents whereabouts, but tapping thrust when engaged allows you to escape. Obviously using your tools to stay alive is the right answer, but people are saying they prefer if that tool wasn't available.

And it is a get out of jail free card, even if there is a cool down. If your options are 1) dont thrust away and die immediately or 2) thrust away and live (perhaps temporarily) then you have been spared immediate death.
 
VincentMatts

VincentMatts

Member
Trup1aya said:
This annoying strawman argument.

It's not that people only want H2 or H3 movement. They just don't like the effects that SAs have on the rest of the sandbox.

Thrust- as implemented, requires concessions to be made all over the sandbox. For example, the grenade blast radius is such that you HAVE to thrust to dodge, at which point you be come a sitting duck for any other attack.

Use thrust to win your 1v1? Great now you are weaker AND slower than the next guy that challenges you.

The benefits of thrust can be had with a simple lateral acceleration, that doesn't immediately penalize you for dodging like you are supposed to.

I'm all for thinking up new new ways to move, but I don't understand why it has to be tied to taking things AWAY from the player.
Click to expand...

Every single thing you do in Halo has a concession to it meaning, every decision you make will leave you vulnerable. Every single one. Throw grenade and miss and you'll be vulnerable, empty your clip to kill one guy and the next guy turning the corner will probably kill you, use thrust and you probably won't have it for the next guy you face. That's the way every gaming decision happens in literally every game. But suddenly it's a bigger deal when it's a thrust or a Sprint? It's the same fucking concessions as everything else. Jesus Christ
 
M

Munch Poke

Member
Trup1aya said:
I think your missing the point.

People find it frustrating that players are getting away with what previously would be punished with death.

You can be completely oblivious to an opponents whereabouts, but tapping thrust when engaged allows you to escape. Obviously using your tools to stay alive is the right answer, but people are saying they prefer if that tool wasn't available.

And it is a get out of jail free card, even if there is a cool down. If your options are 1) dont thrust away and die immediately or 2) thrust away and live (perhaps temporarily) then you have been spared immediate death.
Click to expand...


Every addition beyond standard movement can be something that "spares immediate death".

Beyond jetpack and thruster, or god knows armor lock all these abilities give you another way to avoid death. And out of all of those I've argued on behalf of thruster is easily the least offensive. For the record, fuck armor lock.

The amount of vitriol I remember seeing towards sprint, which had the same arguments used against it, was insane. And to me, this is the same old shit. No matter what they add, people will say it aids evasion in some shape or form. And they're not technically wrong because any movement option will "spare immediate death."

I understand your point and agree to disagree but this time honored argument of saying X or Y addition is broken because it changes another element within the game is beyond tired. And again, out of all the additions we've seen thruster is easily the least offensive. I could always jump away and get lucky enough to get out of a death, this is just another movement on top of that.
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
VincentMatts said:
Every single thing you do in Halo has a concession to it meaning, every decision you make will leave you vulnerable. Every single one. Throw grenade and miss and you'll be vulnerable, empty your clip to kill one guy and the next guy turning the corner will probably kill you, use thrust and you probably won't have it for the next guy you face. That's the way every gaming decision happens in literally every game. But suddenly it's a bigger deal when it's a thrust or a Sprint? It's the same fucking concessions as everything else. Jesus Christ
Click to expand...

Your missing the point. the systems designed around these abilities FORCE YOU TO USE THEM, then penalize you for doing so.

Side step to dodge a grenade in a game not designed around thrust- no penalty you are fine.

Thrust to dodge a grenade because of the massive blast radius, now you are at a disadvantage.

You don't HAVE to empty a clip to kill 1 guy. You are disadvantaged against the 2nd guy because you missed shots previously. This is unlike the disadvantage brought on by Sprint or Trust because the game IS DESIGNED TO ENCOURAGE THEIR USE.

Munch Poke said:
Every addition beyond standard movement can be something that "spares immediate death".

Beyond jetpack and thruster, or god knows armor lock all these abilities give you another way to avoid death. And out of all of those I've argued on behalf of thruster is easily the least offensive. For the record, fuck armor lock.

The amount of vitriol I remember seeing towards sprint, which had the same arguments used against it, was insane. And to me, this is the same old shit. No matter what they add, people will say it aids evasion in some shape or form. And they're not technically wrong because any movement option will "spare immediate death."

I understand your point and agree to disagree but this time honored argument of saying X or Y addition is broken because it changes another element within the game is beyond tired. And again, out of all the additions we've seen thruster is easily the least offensive. I could always jump away and get lucky enough to get out of a death, this is just another movement on top of that.
Click to expand...

Just as tired as 'this thing isn't broken because I like it' . Or 'this addition is good because everyone can do it'

I don't think every possible movement addition is bad. I don't even think thruster is inherently bad, i just don't like how it's implemented. I fundamentally don't think movement should cost your ability to fight, since I value the Run&Gun nature of halo above all else. so I'm naturally going to take issue with any movement option that is imposed by map design/sandbox balancing that also minimizes ones ability to fight.

I think stabilizer is cool. I think slide is ok. GP is insignificant. thrust would be cool if it was more like more an extension of strafe, rather than a frequent Hail Mary.
 
M

Munch Poke

Member
Trup1aya said:
Just as tired as 'this thing isn't broken because I like it' . Or 'this addition is good because everyone can do it'

I don't think every movement is bad. I don't even think thruster is inherently bad, i just don't like how it's implemented. I think stabilizer is cool. I think slide is ok.
Click to expand...

We're obviously just two different sides of the spectrum, which is fine.

If thruster were unlimited would you find that somehow less offensive? Although I have no idea how you could do that without it being truly broken slide-fests.

I understand the type of gameplay you want, but even your own example, ammo, is something that can be consumed thus weakening you for the next fight. In the same way a recovering thruster would inhibit you ability to perform at your peak in the following fight.

Again, I don't find your opinion wrong in any way I just...out of everything we've had thus far that's been added thruster is nothing compared to every other addition since 3. Besides maybe slide like you said but that's the only other one. I can see people arguing against stabilize too.

Edit: For what it's worth I'm playing this H3 playlist with buddies tonight. Theres really nothing wrong with it at all. I just enjoy more movement options, but I am a super Reach fan so none of this stuff bothers me.
 
J

Juan

Member
I'm not against it. Thruster would have been okay to me if it was implemented in its Halo 4 form. You go third person and you do it at a very relatable speed.

In Halo 5, it's just too good and allow for to much escape, I don't even consider this being an offensive tool sincerily. You keep being in first person, it's fast and allow for a very long distance cover. And they had to design the sandbox around this, having grenade and rocket launcher with a big radius, needler with incredibly tracked shots, high bullet magnetism, etc...

It impacted gameplay and map design, and not for the best.

I mean, if you don't see how the sandbox and level design has been impacted with the addition of Thruster and Sprint and how it is somehow changing the core Halo experience, we can't go beyond this point in this discussion.

But if you like those changes, well, that's fine, you have a game for you.

The only bad thing is that classic Halo and modern Halo can't coexist within the same game because the sandbox can't fit both experience, so I could not even say "Go all the way you want and just give us a classic MP playlist". Halo 3 playlist on Halo 5 is a perfect example of this.
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
Munch Poke said:
We're obviously just two different sides of the spectrum, which is fine.

If thruster were unlimited would you find that somehow less offensive? Although I have no idea how you could do that without it being truly broken slide-fests.

I understand the type of gameplay you want, but even your own example, ammo, is something that can be consumed thus weakening you for the next fight. In the same way a recovering thruster would inhibit you ability to perform at your peak in the following fight.

Again, I don't find your opinion wrong in any way I just...out of everything we've had thus far that's been added thruster is nothing compared to every other addition since 3. Besides maybe slide like you said but that's the only other one. I can see people arguing against stabilize too.

Edit: For what it's worth I'm playing this H3 playlist with buddies tonight. Theres really nothing wrong with it at all. I just enjoy more movement options, but I am a super Reach fan.
Click to expand...

Ammunition isn't a movement mechanic- it's a system that is used to balance weapons and to encourage movement for resources.

When you are out of ammo, you aren't at odds with the map design or sandbox balancing- you can still deal damage in other ways, you can still move as effectively as everyone else.

I think thruster would be better as an extension of strafe- sorta like Unreal Tournament's "dodge". Actually I would borrow a lot from UT: id take fast base movement + dodge + wall dodge over sprint + thrust + clamber.
 
M

Munch Poke

Member
Juan said:
I'm not against it. Thruster would have been okay to me if it was implemented in its Halo 4 form. You go third person and you do it at a very relatable speed.

In Halo 5, it's just too good and allow for to much escape, I don't even consider this being an offensive tool sincerily. You keep being in first person, it's fast and allow for a very long distance cover. And they had to design the sandbox around this, having grenade and rocket launcher with a big radius, needler with incredibly tracked shots, high bullet magnetism, etc...

It impacted gameplay and map design, and not for the best.

I mean, if you don't see how the sandbox and level design has been impacted with the addition of Thruster and Sprint and how it is somehow changing the core Halo experience, we can't go beyond this point in this discussion.

But if you like those changes, well, that's fine, you have a game for you.

The only bad thing is that classic Halo and modern Halo can't coexist within the same game because the sandbox can't fit both experience, so I could not even say "Go all the way you want and just give us a classic MP playlist". Halo 3 playlist on Halo 5 is a perfect example of this.
Click to expand...

Hey, agree to disagree. And I would have no problem with your idea of using the H4 thruster, I personally loved it and used the hell out of it.

Of course I can see how it changes the gameplay in map design and in almost every weapon. It certainly gives more ability to escape situations. But as I've replayed older titles there's no chance at all to use movement options to escape an immediate death. And that's your get out of jail sentiment. Which isn't wrong I just think it's a much more fair way to have something like that.

Like I said, it's just two different styles of Halo and I prefer this variant. Even if the Halo 3 gametype is fun.


Trup1aya said:
Ammunition isn't a movement mechanic- it's a system that is used to balance weapons and to encourage movement for resources.

When you are out of ammo, you aren't at odds with the map design or sandbox balancing- you can still deal damage in other ways, you can still move as effectively as everyone else.

I think thruster would be better as an extension of strafe- sorta like Unreal Tournament's "dodge". Actually I would borrow a lot from UT: id take fast base movement + dodge + wall dodge over sprint + thrust + clamber.
Click to expand...

I was simply talking about expendables with the ammo point. But I would love something like wall jumping, you used the room you were in and out played your opponent.
 
C

Cranster

Banned
I'm fine with all of the Spartan Abilities returning, a few obviously need some balance tweaks, but I think they work well in Halo overall. However, we should definitely have a classic playlist with no abilities close around launch just to switch things up a bit.

I mostly just want to see the map quality and variety improve in Halo 6's multiplayer. By that I mean...

  • Developer made BTB maps
  • Asymetrical maps (IE, Zanzibar, Last Resort, Terminal)
  • Medium style maps that can support vehicle play
  • BTB maps that can also play well in 4v4/5v5 matches like Valhalla
  • Interactive Elements like in H2A (the train in Terminal hasn't been topped)
 
N

NippleViking

Banned
Fata1moose said:
Imagine if the PC crowd actually got a dev kit for map making We could have high quality map remakes from any Halo couple that with Halo's custom games setting and you could recreate pretty much any Halo you wanted with high fidelity graphics.
Click to expand...

As incredible as this idea would be, I don't know how feasible it is.
 
C

curiouscharles

Member
FUNKNOWN iXi said:
I'd be fine without sprint, but Halo 6 needs thrusters imo. It's just too fun and leads to creative gameplay.
Click to expand...

yusssss.

Cranster said:
I'm fine with all of the Spartan Abilities returning, a few obviously need some balance tweaks, but I think they work well in Halo overall. However, we should definitely have a classic playlist with no abilities close around launch just to switch things up a bit.

I mostly just want to see the map quality and variety improve in Halo 6's multiplayer. By that I mean...

  • Developer made BTB maps
  • Asymetrical maps (IE, Zanzibar, Last Resort, Terminal)
  • Medium style maps that can support vehicle play
  • BTB maps that can also play well in 4v4/5v5 matches like Valhalla
  • Interactive Elements like in H2A (the train in Terminal hasn't been topped)
Click to expand...


agreed.

although i must admit, i fuggin love rig and plaza - two of my fav asym maps ever.


Juan said:
I'm not against it. Thruster would have been okay to me if it was implemented in its Halo 4 form. You go third person and you do it at a very relatable speed.
Click to expand...

nah brah, thruster is "perrrrfekt".

balances out the increased speed of the game brilliantly [and is way more fucking fun than no thrusters to boot].
 
B

BeekleMatter

Member
Im having so much fun in the H3 Throwback Playlist. Feels so good to have H5's great gunplay in an actually balanced non-restricting sandbox. Hope this stays around for awhile.
 
B

BlackDoomShadow

Member
So the last Halo I played was Reach in 2010, and I haven't seen, watched, read, or played anything made since then. It's like I've time travelled from 2010. In that time there have apparently been a metric shit-ton of books, comics, animated features, and games that have hugely expanded the lore since I was last familiar with it.

So what I'm asking is, is there some sort of crash-course on everything that's happened in the Halo universe since Halo 3/Reach?
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
BlackDoomShadow said:
So the last Halo I played was Reach in 2010, and I haven't seen, watched, read, or played anything made since then. It's like I've time travelled from 2010. In that time there have apparently been a metric shit-ton of books, comics, animated features, and games that have hugely expanded the lore since I was last familiar with it.

So what I'm asking is, is there some sort of crash-course on everything that's happened in the Halo universe since Halo 3/Reach?
Click to expand...

Get the Halo Mythos book. Nice art and summarized a ton of the Lore.
 
K

Karl2177

Member
Trup1aya said:
Pegasus, Osiris, and all of the breakout maps were made in Forge, released at launch.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah. The only one out of those that people saw was Pegasus. Not a lot of people played Breakout, and they cut Orion like 2 weeks in because it was so easy to spawn trap.
 
B

BeekleMatter

Member
curiouscharles said:
wha?

h5 is the only halo so far where all guns are useful...

whatchoo sayin bro?
Click to expand...

I guess maybe balanced sandbox isnt the right way to put it, because I agree that H5 does a great job of making all guns useful. I guess it's more being able to move freely without any animations or abilities restricting my ability to aim and shoot. Thats always been my biggest bother in 343's Halo.

And since this playlist uses Halo 5's weapons, the sandbox is super balanced. Idk im just loving it, feels so good.
 
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