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Fliers telling LGBTQ students to kill themselves is fine according to Cleveland Uni

L

Leeness

Member
Mahonay said:
But in smaller cases like this, their existence doesn't matter for the students being attacked here because they certainly won't get involved.

Does the ICC have a history of ever getting involved in these type of things in America?
Click to expand...

No, the ICC is young. They wouldn’t, really. Maybe if your Nazis started doing Nazi-things against civilians and the US courts refused to do anything.

I’m just saying... If you have a person or persons distributing propaganda that is meant to, or does, incite violence or murder against a group of civilians who are a part of a protected group, actions like that have been prosecuted before as a crime against humanity.

I’m talking more, writing “kill all ____!” and this leads to 1,500 people being killed. Or the like.
 
M

Mahonay

Banned
Leeness said:
No, the ICC is young. They wouldn’t, really. Maybe if your Nazis started doing Nazi-things against civilians and the US courts refused to do anything.

I’m just saying... If you have a person or persons distributing propaganda that is meant to, or does, incite violence or murder against a group of civilians who are a part of a protected group, actions like that have been prosecuted before as a crime against humanity.

I’m talking more, writing “kill all ____!” and this leads to 1,500 people being killed. Or the like.
Click to expand...
Ah I see. Glad they exist, the world is in desperate need for organizations like that.

It's pathetic we have nothing in place in America to protect our already heavily persecuted segments of our population. Land of the Bigots.
 
L

Leeness

Member
Mahonay said:
Ah I see. Glad they exist, the world is in desperate need for organizations like that.

It's pathetic we have nothing in place in America to protect our already heavily persecuted segments of our population. Land of the Bigots.
Click to expand...

It really is pathetic and very sad. :/ The US really needs hate speech laws.

And there’s really no “slippery slope” to it—most civilized nations have hate speech laws and do just fine.
 
B

Bill R Boggess

Member
The issue isn't free speech, the issue is that those flyers - posted on a college campus - were clearly done so with the intent to marginalize, threaten and otherwise intimidate a segment of the student population, which extends far beyond the parameters of harmless free speech.

If you posted something like that in the workplace, you'd be fired.

The students who created and posted those fliers should be expelled, period.

You have a message that is clearly promoting an exclusionary mentality, which is entirely antithetical to what a university is supposed to be and worse, you have these posters advocating for people to end their own lives. (Which is doubly disconcerting given that people who identify as LGBT are far more likely to commit suicide.)

The limit to free speech has always been when your freedom encroaches upon another's rights and clearly, these flyers do just that.
 
M

Mahonay

Banned
Bill R Boggess said:
The issue isn't free speech, the issue is that those flyers - posted on a college campus - were clearly done so with the intent to marginalize, threaten and otherwise intimidate a segment of the student population, which extends far beyond the parameters of harmless free speech.

If you posted something like that in the workplace, you'd be fired.

The students who created and posted those fliers should be expelled, period.

You have a message that is clearly promoting an exclusionary mentality, which is entirely antithetical to what a university is supposed to be and worse, you have these posters advocating for people to end their own lives. (Which is doubly disconcerting given that people who identify as LGBT are far more likely to commit suicide.)

The limit to free speech has always been when your freedom encroaches upon another's rights and clearly, these flyers do just that.
Click to expand...
What could these people be legally charged of? Would it be some kind of incitement charge?

I think we need hate speech laws that would result in far more severe punishment for these type of heinous acts.

And yeah, the fact the college president responded with "BUT WE LOVE FREE SPEECH" is super fucking disgusting. Just condemn the act and expel these motherfuckers.
 
F

Fury451

Banned
I'm an alum, and donate, but I donate for all students to have opportunities to grow without threat. The old president was a fantastic man, really grew the University into something special, and if this guy thinks this is acceptable as a response then I imagine myself and many others are going to make it very clear that it is not.

Not only is it personally abhorrent to me that someone would think someone with white supremacist or neofascist Nazi ideology is actually worth listening to to begin with, but this is clearly a threat to a specific group of students on campus, which falls under Title IX issue, not an issue of free speech and must be appropriately acted upon.
 
BiGBoSSMk23

BiGBoSSMk23

A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
I seriously hope he's fired.

A moron like this deserves a bottom rung job, not to preside over fucking anything, ever.
 
A

Affeinvasion

Member
I would take all of those posters and paste them on the door to the president's office. See how long it would take to change their mind.
 
V

Violence Jack

Member
Holy shit. It's so bizarre seeing a statement talk about equality and inclusiveness next to a flier with a person hanging from a noose. How is this university president still employed?

Affeinvasion said:
I would take all of those posters and paste them on the door to the president's office. See how long it would take to change their mind.
Click to expand...

Fuck the door to his office, paste them on his fucking car. You know, something he probably cares more about than the lives of LGBT students.
 
L

LiquidSword

Member
The same kind of people who put these flyers up were responsible for the “Political correctness on campus is running wild” narrative from the last couple years. It was in prep for this. Now schools are tripping over themselves to proclaims they support “free speech” and students feeling scared or threatened is an acceptable thing because the alternative is thousand of “free speech” defenders descending on your school.
 
G

Gai Murakumo

Member
That poster is shockingly offensive. What the hell it even has statistics. If I saw those I would rip those posters down and throw them in the trash. The response by the University is even more appalling.
 
T

TheOohChild

Member
I guess pretending to be a constitutional attorney is more important to this guy than lifting a finger and trying to maintain a sense of decency with his students. All around just completely disgusting.
 
S

Slayven

Member
Marginalized people are told to worship the flag, but how can you when the ideas behind it are used to question your humanity?

And when is this support for discourse suppose to go both ways? Right now people are bending over to support one side, and it isn't the right one
 
P

Polioliolio

Member
You aren't obliterating free speech if you kick customers out of your establishment who are being inappropriate and harmful to your other paying customers.


The fuck is this trash.

Just release a statement saying 'we believe in free speech, but anything clearly defined as hate speech is not allowed on campus. Thanks.'
 
B

Byakuya769

Member
Suicide is an act of violence and this aims to at least incite suicide, and at worse, demean the value of life as to incite others to harm people. Free speech does NOT protect this bullshit!
 
S

spyroflame0487

Member
Not sure if it was posted elsewhere in this thread, but he issued a second statement:

dmw8xzgx4aakfmj.jpg


Cleveland SCENE article here

So, fellow Clevelanders and CSU students, you can go have a nice chat with him about how far he can stick his head into his ass.
 
P

PrivateWHudson

Member
Just curious what the "Legal Framework" actually is? Sure, maybe you can't throw the creator in jail, but you can investigate and expel the dickbag.
 
M

Mahonay

Banned
PrivateWHudson said:
Just curious what the "Legal Framework" actually is? Sure, maybe you can't throw the creator in jail, but you can investigate and expel the dickbag.
Click to expand...
Dude is acting like it's out of his hands and has no say what happens inside his own college. Fuck this guy. What a useless fucking president. I hope he doesn't live this down.
 
C

ChrisD

Member
That second statement is almost worse, because it really just reads like doubling down.

That poster is horrifying. Something like should never fly, ever.
 
S

Sai-kun

Banned
'current legal framework makes it difficult'

YOU'RE THE FUCKING PRESIDENT, you fucking idiot. Make it fucking work.
 
T

TemplaerDude

Member
I'm sure the reaction would have been the same if there were flyers being passed advising faculty staff and management to jump off bridges.
 
Squirrel Killer

Squirrel Killer

Member
As an ardent advocate for free speech, "Follow Your Fellow F******" is incitement to imminent lawless action.

PrivateWHudson said:
Just curious what the "Legal Framework" actually is? Sure, maybe you can't throw the creator in jail, but you can investigate and expel the dickbag.
Click to expand...
CSU is a public university and bound by the First Amendment to not punish people for the content of their protected speech. Which this is not.
 
K

kmfdmpig

Member
All Universities have some form of conduct standards for students. I would be 99.9% sure that speech that is hateful against LGBT as well as speech that advocates for violence (self-inflicted in this case) would be a clear violation of those standards.

I can't imagine that the President's hands are truly as tied as he claims them to be.

Actually, I just looked and they do have a student code of conduct:
https://www.csuohio.edu/sites/default/files/Consolidated-student-code-of-conduct-8-2015.pdf

Pages 6 and 7 seem relevant, particularly these sections:
“Harassment” - any act of harassment, whether on the basis of race, gender or
otherwise, as defined in the applicable university policy against harassment and
discrimination. Charges related to a violation of this provision of the code of
conduct shall be investigated and responded to through the procedures issued by
the office for institutional equity for investigating complaints of discrimination
and harassment and not through rules 3344-83-08 to 3344-83-10 of the
Administrative Code.

(E) “Endangering health and safety” - taking or threatening action that endangers the
safety, physical or mental health, or life of any person, or creates a reasonable fear
of such action, including, but not limited to, stalking, relationship violence or
domestic violence, as defined in the applicable university policy against
harassment and discrimination. When charges related to a violation of this
provision of the code of conduct involve stalking, relationship violence or
domestic violence, they shall be investigated and responded to through the
procedures issued by the office for institutional equity for investigating
complaints of discrimination and harassment and not through rules 3344-83-08 to
3344-83-10 of the Administrative Code.

Page 10:
“Unauthorized posting or distribution of materials on university premises” -
failure to abide by university policies, rules, and regulations on posting and
distribution of materials on university premises.
 
Squirrel Killer

Squirrel Killer

Member
kmfdmpig said:
All Universities have some form of conduct standards for students. I would be 99.9% sure that speech that is hateful against LGBT as well as speech that advocates for violence (self-inflicted in this case) would be a clear violation of those standards.

I can't imagine that the President's hands are truly as tied as he claims them to be.

Actually, I just looked and they do have a student code of conduct:
https://www.csuohio.edu/sites/default/files/Consolidated-student-code-of-conduct-8-2015.pdf
Click to expand...
The Constitution overrides a student code of conduct in cases of protected speech. Which this is not.
 
K

kmfdmpig

Member
Squirrel Killer said:
The Constitution overrides a student code of conduct in cases of protected speech. Which this is not.
Click to expand...

The University is well within its rights to sanction students for violating codes of conduct.
You have a constitutional right to curse out people, but if you curse out a professor you run the risk of being suspended or expelled from college.
That happens regularly and is the basis for plagiarism leading to failed grades, suspensions, expulsions, etc...
In this case the President of the University has wide discretion in how to handle the issue and instead is taking a mulligan as he's afraid that it's too hard to actually do something which he is empowered to do and has an obligation to do.
 
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