brickarts295
Member
Yeah, this looks rough
Okay, as a huge ND fan, I think it would be wise to tell the devs that they should get off their high horse stop treating people like this T_T
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An important statement from Naughty Dog
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
- Start date
Okay, as a huge ND fan, I think it would be wise to tell the devs that they should get off their high horse stop treating people like this T_T
If it was that easy to convince people to stop doing bad shit, the world would be a much happier place. Some people can only learn the hard way.
Great, now we're gonna see shit posts like this. "Innocent until guilty!" "Where's the receipts!" "Why would she wait until now to say this?" "Probably just wants attention" "If she waited this long to come forward it's her fault"
Remember it's not the studio, maybe just 1-3 devs, who may have left by now. Hopefully Naughtydog can get to the bottom of this and fix it.
Compsiox
Banned
Also that could put her job at risk?
fvng
Member
Please do not punish naughty dog's incredibly talented staff because of the actions of the sexual harassser. People are there working hard on TLOU II and it would be awful if people refused the buy the game because of one or two bad apples there. That just punishes all the good people there
Dragon_Rocks
Member
If any of this a possibility no matter how remote, then yes, someone should think in this line. No one should assume absolute +ve or -ve by default in any accusation.
So you care more about their games sales than harassment? Yes, of course there's many people at ND who aren't pieces of shit, but that's the case at every company. Companies often refuse to do anything about stuff like this, maybe some horrible PR and potential loss of sales is what it takes for them to weed out the garbage. They can keep TLOU2 if they have no intention on correcting this shit.
brickarts295
Member
That's probably bad wording on my behalf. I'm most definitely not going damn them all and I definitely will still support them. Its just this whole situation has been very confusing since this is ND of all places. Hopefully they can sort out their HR.
Kinda sad to know that naughty dog has a fear mongering culture where you can't even voice your concerns of the workplace without getting fired.
That is a shitty environment to be in. 20000 dollars is not worth it, if you are getting harassed at work every day and just want some respect.
That is a shitty environment to be in. 20000 dollars is not worth it, if you are getting harassed at work every day and just want some respect.
fvng
Member
What? How did you completely misread what I said? Try again. My concern is about people. Try again
Shitty people are everywhere, you would seriously have to stop buying anything if that is how you express your protest. Only thing that stops assholes from gettin a free pass is speaking out about it and being vigilant if you observe such a thing.
But please make a concious effort to differentiate between the statistical inevitability that there are rotten people at any big company and the vast majority of employees who are good people. Don't throw all of them under the bus over such incidents. Target the individuals who committed these travesties.
Like the incident the reporter tweeted... immediately get that dudes name and make it known who specifically it was. Saying "a dev at Naughty Dog" people will read as "devs at Naughty Dog".
We can only stop this if we specifically point out the ones who are at fault, not grouping all people together. The only thing that accomplishes is hurting even more people undeserving of it.
texhnolyze
Banned
This is totally embarrassing and you should feel bad.
Because as a studio that's progressive you should be held to a higher standard. People will pay more attention than some random name. And fuck that just cause shit ppl are everywhere means naughty dog gets a free pass. The only time these ppl will learn is when it impacts their pockets. Stop siding with naughty dogs just cause they make good games ffs
Putting video games over people's well-being is incredibly egoistic and narrow-minded.
How do you get the idea that they have no intention of correcting this?
This is exactly the kind of reaction that puts people into boxes and splits them in camps instead of getting everyone who is against this sort of harrassment on the same page about speaking out about it.
Do I need to be afraid now that if I observe such behavior in my company by one asshole coworker and make it public that I destroy the livelihood of my other coworkers and my own because people will turn against the company?
We need to be smarter than this and act with compassion to everyone(!) who is affected by these assholes, including those who happen to have to share a workplace with them. Weed out the spoils, don't torch the fucking fields.
I don't say don't mention the workplace. I mean to implore people to make a more concious effort that this, let's call it movement, targets the individuals who a) commit this behavior and b) those in power doing nothing about it. Also c) people who observe it must be encouraged and guaranteed safety when speaking up about it, not discouraged by backlash that might effect them negatively.
"A dev" is not a sufficient descriptor for a conversation this important.
I don't give a shit about ND's games in this context ffs, I give a shit about hundreds of people who may suffer from this shit that had nothing to do with it because aome of you will just see a big faceless company and the backlash only effecting management. That's ridiculous. "They" are not the first ones losing their jobs, the lower employees are. Stop being so naive... ffs (for emphasize)
You must be working for the LAPD or some shit
That's almost the exact opposite of what the person said. Don't judge all of Naughty Dog over the actions of a single (or a few?) people. There is absolutely zero evidence that this type of conduct is widespread there.
Maybe just maybe ND and it's staff should do more than rushing a statement out and take a good look at itself or maybe video games are not as important as the victim. If your first worry is about tlou2 maybe you should take a cold hard look at the mirror.
You must be a colleague from the STPD (that's snarky town pd) then. My fault for expecting that this outrage came from actual compassion.
Not what I said, or implied. Did you not read the reply of the person I quoted?
The person I quoted made it seem like the Verge reporter was just looking for attention. Which is a very dumb way of looking at it. Should her statement mean someone is 100% guilty? No. But it means instead of asking where are the receipts or why it took this long for her to say anything, ND or Sony should contact her and ask for her side of the story. His makes 3 reports (that I know of) in the past 3 weeks of shady things happening at ND. Us gamers shouldnt be blowing this off and immedtely assume these are just people looking for attention.
Dragon_Rocks
Member
But as you see majority of the people in here have assumed it is correct and very few are thinking in the line of lets investigate further. Lets ask her/him to name the person being accused so that ND or someone else can investigate and lets see what the accused person's response is. The immediate one sided mentality is the most dangerous one.
I am not supporting ND or the people who are making these accusations. ND is also a group of humans who can very well do bad things. I just stay neutral to see what facts come out and then make up an opinion.
Jesus ChristYeah, this looks rough
papercan55
Member
Disgusting from naughty dog, my opinion of them has gone down the drain.
They think they are untouchable have gotten way to big for their boots, really hope this get's investigated properly and not just hidden away.
They think they are untouchable have gotten way to big for their boots, really hope this get's investigated properly and not just hidden away.
I don't see how a few people boycotting the game can lead to punishment. People can choose to support their non support in their own way whether a simple voice of support for the people or boycotting. Besides, I feel this incident will fall through the cracks as can be seen with a lot of people still staunchly supporting ND.
The problem is that we assume that these are just bad apples as opposed to issues inherent to the workplace culture. Considering articles popping up on how shitty the industry treats their talent (writers, vo actors, developes on a personal level) are par on course I dont think its easy to assume its just one asshole. Either hes such an asshole that he didnt care about the repercussions if it got escalated..or he that thought made a decision that he knows even if it got escalated nothing would come from it and thats where its problematic for the company.
bemusedchunk
Banned
you are a very selfish person.
Source?
WordsintheWater
Member
Yeah, this looks rough
Not surprised in the slightest. It's freaking sad, things like this happen everywhere. I know one guy at my job that crosses the line all the time and I'm shocked that he still works here. The way he talks to people is just ridiculous. He does it across the board so people always brush it off as that's just how he is, but that should never be an excuse.
The lengths you fucks will go for these damn companies. It's phenomenal.
But it looks like Naughty Dog houses a couple of harassers that have seemingly gotten away with their actions.
Then reply to them and not me, because that is not what insinuated at all.
Over the past few weeks I've seen many people dismiss claims from women automatically because:
1.) They didn't name names
2.) They didn't provide evidence
3.) Because they "were just trying to get attention"
4.) Other reasons
Garcia (the person I quoted earlier), seemed to be one of these people. Which is why I'm guessing he was banned.
Right, because lawsuits are so much fun.
Its best they keep it a mystery. It just leads to lawsuits and online witch hunts. If ND/Sony care, theyll contact the reporter and ask.
Dragon_Rocks
Member
Well you were the one who posted this:
Great, now we're gonna see shit posts like this. "Innocent until guilty!" "Where's the receipts!" "Probably just wants attention"
You calling those shit posts clearly tells that you have already assumed that all those possibilities cannot be true. We don't know that yet. We don't know who is right and who is wrong here. So if it is fair for one to assume that it is true then it is fair for one to assume it is false as well. It may be a bad person at ND who really did this or it may be that the reporter had some beef with ND and decided this is the right time to cause issues for ND.
People giving out a generalized or broad statement like someone at X did this bad thing leads to everyone else thinking bad about all working for X. What is X or ND in this case supposed to do? Interrogate everyone in their group about whether they did it? Don't you think it will cause problems within the company as innocent people will feel that the company they have been loyal to is doubting them?
People who stay quiet because they are worried about retaliation and then jump into the #MeToo train without naming the culprit (again to safeguard themselves) are still putting other innocents in some kind of harm indirectly.
HellofaMouse
Member
You cant blame people for thinking its fake if the only proof you provide is your word. Its a serious accusation, and it needs to be made in a serious manner. Not via a series of tweets.
It's not an easy thing to be put into this kind of position. You can think to yourself "if someone said something like that to me, I would <insert what you think you'd do here>" all you want, but when the moment happens, many times you feel stuck in place and not really sure of how to react or whatever.
This is coming from my personal experience dealing with something similar at work. I won't get into the details, but when a co-worker decided to open their mouth in a particular way, I was literally taken aback at the moment, and the first things to go thorough my mind were, "This is not cool, it should be reported, but then I'm stirring up drama, don't want to make my workplace a living hell for reporting this, will everything go downhill from the moment I report them to HR, etc..."
Thankfully, I did reach out to HR a day or two after thanks to the encouragement of close friends and family, but not everyone has that, and so you end up sucking it up and trying to repress what happened and hopefully move on with your life. But unfortunately, it always stays with you no matter what, especially if you never did anything about it.
So please, at the very least, have some empathy because it is hard to be in a position where it's you (just one person) against a company (because lots of times, idiots like these get defended in the workplace instead of taking such allegations extremely seriously).
No, calling them shit post is not me saying they can't be true. I don't know if you've been in the Weinstein threads, the other Naughtydog thread, or even on Twitter. But some people simply refuse to even believe the possibility of some sort of harassment unless there is proof. That's not the way things should be done. We should not be dismissing cases simply because there's no proof. It doesn't matter if your a victim of Bill Cosby or a victim of a random developer of Naughtydog. As a community we should be urging Naughtydog and Sony to look into it, not dismissing victims who come forward and laughing at them.
The person I replied to literally said "Lol. Now every one can post fake like this." I mean... is that not a shit post? If he came out and said "Lol, where's the receipts" or "Lol, probably just wants attention" is that not a shit post?
You make it sound like I automatically assumed the developer at Naughtydog was guilty. That's not what I said, and that's not what I implied. What I'm saying is we shouldn't have people posting things automatically dismissing the victim, which is what Garcia - the person I quoted, did. THAT's what I'm referring to by shit post. Not the fact that the developer may be innocent or reporter is making up stuff. But we shouldn't automatically be dismissing claims from respectable reporters in our industry over something like sexual harassment.
Edit: And why people want this person to out the developer on Twitter is something I don't understand. What happens if she has a developer in mind, and her story isn't true? It's just going to lead to a internet witch hunt possibly damaging the person's career. What if it's true, but she doesn't have evidence? It could lead to a lawsuit and her reputation being ruined. You say broad statements are damaging, isn't it more damaging staying silent, letting this thing go on? People can either stay silent, they can speak up without saying names (less chance of a lawsuit/internet witch hunts/etc), or that can speak up and say the person's name. Out of the three, it seems if a person wants to come forward to the public about their experiences in the industry, the second choice is the best one.
Papo Swing
Member
Have ND come out with any other comments on this?
Their original response doesn't feel that well with me. It feels like it is saying they did not find any proof the claims were true so they won't do more to check if it is or was a thing.
Their original response doesn't feel that well with me. It feels like it is saying they did not find any proof the claims were true so they won't do more to check if it is or was a thing.
Professor Beef
Banned
This is amazing satire.
PanicFreak
Member
da fuq?
Negotiator
Member
Ugh. This is what I meant earlier by dismissing victims claims. But this guy literally takes it to the next level. Smh.
Fucking gross. Twitter should not fucking stand for this, but of course they couldn't give two shits.
