Before Odyssey released i brough up something similar to what you talked regarding Moonshines and how they compare to Galaxy. However the threads were akin to tea parties where evryone was busy drinking tea and eating cookies so no one was interested in that debate. Here's an example:Right and a lot of the time the journey is fun but a lot of the time it also feels like it's busy mindless stuff. I guess the best way to describe this game is uneven. Where I feel games like galaxy was a constant stream of greatness, this game has them in bursts. The open world doesn't bother me it's that I wish there were more what I consider to be more platforming challenges built into the world rather than a lot of the more just walk around find stuff variety.
Genuine question to plan ahead:
What is the use of collecting more moons than needed to progress to the next world?
i thinkI finally beat it earlier and I am loving the end-game stuff. Getting the 100% is going to take me some time.
I kept wondering about an all-moons speedrun while I was playing the game, and now I'm just not so sure. I assume speedrunners won't be doing that for a long time, if ever.
i won't dare to call it "lazy", however i don't like how it was handled. The suggestion i have doesn't involve much extra work and would be more consistent.Ok, I admit they got me with that one post ending kingdom. Nostalgia overload
Odyssey does have some big things going on for it thought: A proper and well executed reverence to nostalgia, the most powerfull move set in any 3D Mario game, fantastic controls with the Joycon, openly embraces the speedruning community and at the same time it accomodates novice players. It is also the most detailed Mario game ever created. Attention to detail is insane.
Regarding your comment about that Moonshines should never be trivial to collect. Those are there for the novice players that can only operate the joystick and the jump button. Doing a Moonshine vs 64 Stars comparison, we' ll notice that in quality and ammount Odyssey surpass it.
So the Galaxy games remain untoched but 64 and Sunshine are surpassed it seems.
I finally beat it earlier and I am loving the end-game stuff. Getting the 100% is going to take me some time.
I kept wondering about an all-moons speedrun while I was playing the game, and now I'm just not so sure. I assume speedrunners won't be doing that for a long time, if ever.
I regret spending so much of my time 100%ing the game. I would've preferred a gold statue of Mario on the title screen like in New Super Mario Bros. 2.
Really astonishing, isn't it? And it goes to stuff that it's mostly trivial. I.E.: planted seeds have different grouth sizes, a bunny starts sweating after chased for a while and starts getting tired, the amount of objects and surfaces cappy can swing in most be in the 100s.Agreed that Odyssey is absolutely packed with detail. It makes its best worlds a joy to explore. The forgotten isle is one of the game's smallest levels but it's also one of the best because of this.
Actually the highlighted seems to imply i' ve been stating preference with all of my posts, when that's not the case. i have just limited myself to explain how each of the games work. If i would claim a personal preference then it would be the Galaxy series. But the comparisons most people make and what i have tackle are 64 (mostly) and Sunshine related.As for moons/stars/shines, I don't agree with the part of your post that I bolded. Most of Odyssey's Moons I would not want to collect again - since they solely exist to encourage more exploration. And while there are plenty of really good ones it does mean the game isn't going to be as pure to replay or return to as 64 and Sunshine were. I've lost count of the number of times I've either replayed 64 from the beginning, or picked up the game to replay a few stars. And it never, ever, gets old. And that's a game where the objectives aren't even that interesting - the journey there is. Sunshine has more interesting objectives, complete with near-endless ways in how you go about and clear them.
That, to me, is important, and why I don't feel that Odyssey surpasses 64 and Sunshine as a whole. I think Odyssey is an amazing game, but I struggle to rank the 3D Marios because they are (rightly) rather different to one another, and they have their strengths and weaknesses. I guess it depends on what you seek in the series, and I can't also fault Odyssey for having such a breadth of gameplay styles.
Basically it amounts to you liking the more relaxed physics model of 64 than the more "realistic" Odyssey one. A preference, which doesn't make a game "purer" sandbox than the other.64 is simply a much purer sandbox, and its physics are a lot more flexible than Odyssey's. Mario's momentum changes through more variables, and I find that makes for a more playful, and irresistible, sandbox. Its levels are built around this facet of the game, too, which is why it's possible to have plenty of fun just jumping, diving, and skipping about outside Princess Peach's castle.
Odyssey, by comparison, has more predictable physics, which in turn makes it a lot more accessible, but at the same time once you've learned its more difficult moves it's actually very difficult to make Mario slide about or change momentum, whereas he does so in 64 through more factors, like the incline of a surface, whether you've dived, how fast he's moving when he lands and so on.
64 encourages exploration through Star collecting and coin gathering? The amount of different collectible in both games is the same? Or im missing something? Stars, yellow coins, red coins, blue coins for 64. Moonshines/Moonshrads, yellow coins, purple coins for Odyssey.Odyssey encourages exploration via Moon collecting whether you like it or not - in 64 there's none of this. You'll pick a star, and often the only hint you get about what you should be doing is a single descriptive line. It's then up to you to explore the level and figure things out.
Players are motivated to explore these sandboxes because the movement mechanics in all these games are amazing. Can you elaborate why one is "purer" than the other?64 is a purer realisation of the platforming sandbox, and why players may be motivated to explore its sandboxes, and that's why I think it's still king. Sure it may require more patience and have a steeper learning curve, and actually getting around its environments competently is incredibly difficult if you've just started playing the game for the first time, but that's also what makes it an incredibly satisfying game. Very little of what 64 classes as a goal feels hollow to achieve, whereas you can't deny that many of Odyssey's Moons only offer hollow satisfaction - they've been placed there to gamify exploration.
(fyi - replayed 64 last year, and Sunshine this year)
Basically it amounts to you liking the more relaxed physics model of 64 than the more "realistic" Odyssey one. A preference, which doesn't make a game "purer" sandbox than the other.
However, both games have the less restrictive move set out of the other 3D ones and both move sets allow the player to express creativity in it's platforming. So i wouldn't declare one it's "superior" to the other until more time has passed, 1 game has been played extensivly for 20 years the other for a week.
64 encourages exploration through Star collecting and coin gathering? The amount of different collectible in both games is the same? Or im missing something? Stars, yellow coins, red coins, blue coins for 64. Moonshines/Moonshrads, yellow coins, purple coins for Odyssey.
Moonshines in Odyssey come in al varieties: From "Set pieces", to idiot proof, to criptic and well hidden. Then it has a well implemented ingame hint system to accomodate everyone.
Players are motivated to explore these sandboxes because the movement mechanics in all these games are amazing. Can you elaborate why one is "purer" than the other?
If we eliminate the amount of Moonshines while keeping everything the same:As Moonshines are now at least all bases are covered with the caveat that no solution is perfect for everyone. Nothing is...
- A segment of the user base gets the boot making a game less inviting to new players.
- The "Barren", "Square inch of meaningful content" brigade comes shouting from all corners.
- If Nintendo doesn't want to alienate anyone the more "complex" Moonshines have to be further diluted to accomodate the low tier.
Since you replyed 64 more recently than i, it should be fresher in your memory. So you could easily provide concrete examples, i would like to see that.
Thanks for diplomatically calling me an idiot... the tact is always appreciated. XDI dont have a problem with stating the games qualities at all to analyse their high quality. but I cant say I want to do so and claim one is objectively better than the other because thats silly - like I said it your mileage depends on what you think of those factors mentioned about each game.
Thanks for diplomatically calling me an idiot... the tact is always appreciated. XD
Trying to aproach things in a more "objective" way seems more productive for a discussion or for trying to reach a more accepted thruth. There's a space for subjectivity of course but is what mainly drives these topics so is less interesting.
Subjectivism is what leads us to claims as: "It feels like Assassins Creed/Dark souls" or "it's inspired by Banjo Kazzoie" either with no claims to back it up or rather superficial ones and without any effort whatsoever to refute the counter arguments.
Most of the 64 comparisons were made by other posters. Among the claims were that the game is less "focused", or in general, that 64 is doing "x" while "Odyssey" isn't. i just took the time to describe what the games are doing. So i would say "Silly" is making the comparsions that don't hold to further scrutinity.
You say that but someone did a 50 hour 100% BotW speedrun within a few weeks of release.
The segment in new donk city when you find all the band members and jump up super star is playing and the fire works are going off and your playing donkey kong was the greatest gaming moment for me ever. I got teary eyed and don't know why and was so happy it was perfect.
I was watching Trihex practice his route for the minimum number of moons and the skilled acrobatics of like a Mario 64 run were key. This is gonna be an awesome game for speedruns.
This is something key with this game. How totally unrestrictive and welcoming is to the player that wants to try things. In other cases the game would be full of invisible walls or sliding colition boxes in most objects.The grin on my face was so big and dumb during that sequence.
Man, I can't wait to see what the speedrunning community can do with this game's movement system. I found myself going out of my way to do crazy stuff wherever possible, and more often than not found a massive pile of coins for my trouble. So good.
I hate this food world level
I wonder if there is any way to trigger the japanese version of "Jump up, Super Star" in-game?
It doesn't seem to be used in the japanese version of the game.
Hello Oracle:I have a question on progression.
After I beat the few missions that are required for the story then im free roaming the world for moons is it possible to get them all?
Im at the very start and only in the sand kingdom. I seem to be stuck and cant find anymore, should I look harder or do they need to be unlocked and I return later?
You're looking it the wrong way though. It seems you're motivated by the reward than the actual level itself.
No my friend im not. Even Mario Sunshine (my fav Mario game actually) was waaay more challenging then this game.
I texted my older brother (40 yrs old) my concerns with this, and he agreed that this game is waaay to soft, it's not what it use to be. We grew up on Nintendo together in the 80's, we been there since the beginning when Mario was first launched, when these Mario games were actually challenging. The only rewarding feeling i get from this game is when my wife gets moons, because she is not the best gamer at all! But it's satisfying seeing her get moons, makes me happy!!! But for me, im just a tad disappointed with the ratio of moons per Kingdom compared to how many moons you need to beat that Kingdom, it is very, very lopsided.
So is the post game after you beat?Bowser on the moon
How many more worlds are there after this?
Yes when you crash the party there's a little phase after that then credits will roll
The design reasons are:Why, why, WHY would Nintendo put almost 900 moons in a game with 17 Kingdoms when each Kingdom only requires 10 to 20 moons to beat that Kingdom??? I got so frustrated at one point due to how eazy it was to get a moon, I asked my wife if she put the game on easy and she said she never messed with the menu options.
I just don't understand why they would put 60 to 90 moons in each Kingdom when you only need around 10 to 20 (depending on the Kingdom) to beat it?! Makes nooo Sense!
🏆Mainly consequence of living in the information age. We got speedruns so early because:I seen a article online where someone beat Mario Odyssey in 90min and got an achievement for it!!!! Honest to God, back in 96' with Mario 64, there is NO WAY in hell you could beat that game in that time, simply ridiculous (fastest speed run in Mario 64 was around 2 hours, with a game 21 yrs old! This time was beat in 3 days with Mario Odyssey)!!! Why is everything in general getting soooo damn soft these days??? Politics, video games, just everything!!! I wanna feel like i accomplished something after i beat these games, it's hard to feel that way anymore when these games are basically another version of some Welfare Government assistants!
Just sad. Great Game Nintendo, but this is a reason why gaming is getting less and less fun. Too many developers making games where everyone gets a trophy
See the list in the first paragraph.Final thought...
Mario Odyssey is supposed to be the direct sequel to Mario 64 for N64, but it feels less (MUCH less) Satisfying simply because of the ratio of moons per Kingdom per how many you actually need to beat each Kingdom. I'm actually really shocked this game got such high scores with reviewers. Do reviews these days not base there scores off of a challenge aswel? In Mario 64 there were only 121 stars in a game just as long, if not longer, so whats the deal with almost 900 moons? It use to feel soooo special to get a Star, these moons are a Joke. .
Yeah I had the credits roll and then entered theMushroom Kingdom. Was under the impression that I was done but are there many more worlds to visit?
Wow, the credits just rolled.
Not gonna lie:
After hearing how huge the post game content would be, I was half expecting a full Super Mario 64 remake once entering Peach's Castle
, some of which are pretty tough. Trust me, there's a lot to do after the credits roll.There's not much more in the way of actual Kingdoms, the bulk of postgame consists of extra Moons added to the existing Kingdoms, and a lot of secret mini-levels