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[ShadowWolf712]

You think they would have learned after all their fake "insiders" and GitHub.

How's that 13.3 TF hype train doing these days?

I'm sorry, are you lumping me in with people who were hyping 13.3 like it was gospel?

 

[Agnostic2020]

Sure, but with all that said one of them is still “variable“ itself after all these variables. It literally can’t sustain its max in intense situations.

It can sustain though as mentioned by cerny. Whenever its not needed by game code it drops so console stays cool and doesn't get loud. This is an action they took due to ps fans complaining about loud consoles. It has nothing to do with power . Both cpu and gou can hit max frequency and stay there based on the need of the code

 

[Gudji]

You think they would have learned after all their fake "insiders" and GitHub.

How's that 13.3 TF hype train doing these days?

Seems like you haven't learned anything either.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

I don't care what you believe, hardware exists agnostic of your beliefs.

You guys are basically trying to tell me right now that a 2080 Super is superior to a 2080 Ti, that's the level of nonsense that has encapsulated these discussion.

No one's saying that, you're having a meltdown.

People are saying the PS5 can punch above its perceived weight and the differences will be smaller than you insist. You can't handle that for some reason. It's ok, you have a blatant preference, that's fine. Just stop pretending to do this from a place of objectivity, fam.

 

[CJY]

At the end of the day you only have yourself to blame for feeling bad. You came into threads always trying to shit all over Sony stuff, downplaying their system and basically calling Mark Cerny a liar.

I understand you want to lash out at Sony fans but the end of the day you should direct your criticism at Microsoft.
At the end of the day they had the chance to innovate but instead decided to go the extra Tflop slogan for their advertising department instead.

No one is disrupting Microsoft has more power, i have stated it, many have but your constant denial on what game developers are saying positive about the ps5 is tiresome.

Yes, it's really really sad that Xbox is playing the TFLOPs card again after failing so miserably with that messaging with X1X.

What's the definition of insanity again? Isn't it: "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result"?

Xbox by that definition are insane, but they have insane amounts of money, so no harm for us gamers in letting them throw it around.

 

[DaMonsta]

It can sustain though as mentioned by cerny. Whenever its not needed by game code it drops so console stays cool and doesn't get loud. This is an action they took due to ps fans complaining about loud consoles. It has nothing to do with power . Both cpu and gou can hit max frequency and stay there based on the need of the code

No, you read or interpreted what was said incorrectly.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

No one's saying that, you're having a meltdown.

People are saying the PS5 can punch above its perceived weight and the differences will be smaller than you insist. You can't handle that for some reason. It's ok, you have a blatant preference, that's fine. Just stop pretending to do this from a place of objectivity, fam.

You clearly haven't been paying attention to what people are not only implying but directly saying not just in this thread but universally on this board.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Yes, it's really really sad that Xbox is playing the TFLOPs card again after failing so miserably with that messaging X1X.

What's the definition of insanity again? Isn't it: "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?"

Xbox by that definition are insane, but they have insane amounts of money, no harm for us gamers in letting them throw it around.

TFs only stopped mattering when PS5 officially had less

 

[ShadowWolf712]

You clearly haven't been paying attention to what people are not only implying but directly saying.

I have. Sure you have fanboys in here, but the bulk of the discussion is quite sane, and you keep attacking even that.

 

[IntentionalPun]

It can sustain though as mentioned by cerny. Whenever its not needed by game code it drops so console stays cool and doesn't get loud. This is an action they took due to ps fans complaining about loud consoles. It has nothing to do with power . Both cpu and gou can hit max frequency and stay there based on the need of the code

You kind of have this backwards it seems; the higher the workload the greater the chance either the CPU or GPU will lower frequency. It doesn't drop when "not needed' in fact the frequency stays high with low workloads.

And it has 100% to do with power; like literally.. it's tuned based on the power draw.

 

[Agnostic2020]

No, you read or interpreted what was said incorrectly.

No i did not. It is called "race to idle "for a reason . Anyways we are getting off topic.

 

[DJTaurus]

You can’t get him serious when saying stuff like these he looses all of his credibility:

The main difference is that the working frequency of the PlayStation 5 is much higher and they work at a higher frequency. That's why, despite the differences in some, they don't make much of a difference. An interesting example from an IGN reporter was that the Xbox Series X is very neat and tidy like an 8-cylinder engine, and the PlayStation 5 is turbocharged like a six-cylinder engine to the end. Raising the clock speed on the PlayStation 5 seems to me to have a number of good things to do, such as the memory, rasterizer, and other parts of the graphics card whose performance is related to this clock. So the rest of the PlayStation 5's GPU works faster than the X-Series. That's what makes the console work even more on the announced peak 10.28 Teraflops. But for the X-Series, because the rest of the sections are slower, it will probably work much lower on Teraflops in general, and only reach 12 Teraflops in highly ideal conditions.

Also to remind you sth more credible:

Also he has been exposed by a Dice devon another forum.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

I have. Sure you have fanboys in here, but the bulk of the discussion is quite sane, and you keep attacking even that.

So let me ask you a simple question.

Is there any aspect of the PlayStation 5's GPU or supplemental pipeline which is superior to the Series X's?

Simple question, be detailed.

 

[Ashoca]

It can sustain though as mentioned by cerny. Whenever its not needed by game code it drops so console stays cool and doesn't get loud. This is an action they took due to ps fans complaining about loud consoles. It has nothing to do with power . Both cpu and gou can hit max frequency and stay there based on the need of the code

But what does this mean then:

if the game is doing power-intensive processing for a few frames, then it gets throttled.

and

Several developers speaking to Digital Foundry have stated that their current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core.

Why does it throttle down when there is a power-intensive scene? Why do devs have to throttle back the CPU to sustain 2.23 GHZ on the GPU?

Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-playstation-5-the-mark-cerny-tech-deep-dive

 

[Agnostic2020]

You kind of have this backwards it seems; the higher the workload the greater the chance either the CPU or GPU will lower frequency. It doesn't drop when "not needed' in fact the frequency stays high with low workloads.

And it has 100% to do with power; like literally.. it's tuned based on the power draw.

Correct .I meant It has nothing to do with horse power of apu but rather with power draw of chip . U need to go read examples about race to idle in digital foundry new article by cerny.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

So let me ask you a simple question.

Is there any aspect of the PlayStation 5's GPU or supplemental pipeline which is superior to the Series X's?

Simple question, be detailed.

On paper? Nope. Can't speak on in practice as we haven't seen either in detail. But not in terms of power.

However, are there ways it's more efficient that can minimize the gap between the two? Possibly, if Cerny is to be believed. And I've not seen him engage in BS before.

Like I said, homeslice, I'm a realist. Numbers don't "hurt" me like you want them to.

 

[Agnostic2020]

But what does this mean then:



and



Why does it throttle down when there is a power-intensive scene? Why do devs have to throttle back the CPU to sustain 2.23 GHZ on the GPU?

Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-playstation-5-the-mark-cerny-tech-deep-dive

Why do people bring half quotes ? This was answered by cerny in the mew article. Cause dev kit doesn't have variable frequencies. Retail unit/final dev kit will have it.

 

[DaMonsta]

No one's saying that, you're having a meltdown.

People are saying the PS5 can punch above its perceived weight and the differences will be smaller than you insist. You can't handle that for some reason. It's ok, you have a blatant preference, that's fine. Just stop pretending to do this from a place of objectivity, fam.

This is literally verbatim where Xbox fans were 7 years ago.

We see how that turned out.

There is no “punching above weight” when it comes to these consoles.

They both have the smartest, most experienced people on earth working on them. They both have access to the same resources, knowledge base, and techniques.

It’s asinine to claim one side can do some type of hardware/software magic the other can not.

Both machines were built to get the absolute most they can get out of the hardware. Both are “balanced” both are “efficient” both have addressed bottlenecks. Both have a lot of the same developers, engineers, and manufacturers working on the parts.

Only thing left is numbers. Any effort to deny those numbers, is to deny reality.

 

[Disco_]

Yeah... No, the RT performance gap is the same as the compute gap which is to say 17% to 21%
PS5 has less RT units but they are clocked higher thus perform faster.

RT depends on bandwidth quite a bit as well and xsx has more of it. Either way, RT on both won't be robust so not much of an issue there.

 

[Jon Neu]

That's it. This is what made him a "Sony fanboy" or "Sony shill" to so many people here?

There are a lot more tweets and retweets that only make reference to Playstation.

I mean, it's pretty obvious he has a bias to the brand.

they created this game, he created this game. do you want to say that he can't own it or be proud of it?

Funny, they created the game for all platforms, yet he shows the PS4 version.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

On paper? Nope. Can't speak on in practice as we haven't seen either in detail. Not in terms of power.

However, are there ways it's more efficient that can minimize the gap between the two? Possibly, if Cerny is to be believed. And I've not seen him engage in BS before.

They're the identical architecture, so if nothing on paper is superior throughout the entire pipeline or can present itself as being so that would translate directly into action as a 100% no.

This is why I keep coming back to the 2080 Super and 2080 Ti, because the rift between those two cards is about the same as here yet people would never argue where those cards stand, no one would be so foolish.

It's not a problem here though because brand loyalty and fanboyism clouds judgement surrounding something which is functionally clear.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Correct .I meant It has nothing to do with horse power of apu but rather with power draw of chip . U need to go read examples about race to idle in digital foundry new article by cerny.

Why do I need to read examples I have in fact, already read, and understand again?

It does not drop when not needed; what are you talking about? That has nothing to do with race to idle; race to idle is about removing idle time from calculations of how often the processor is at max, because it is "pointlessly at max" during those times and thus should not be included.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

This is literally verbatim where Xbox fans were 7 years ago.

We see how that turned out.

There is no “punching above weight” when it comes to these consoles.

They both have the smartest, most experienced people on earth working on them. They both have access to the same resources, knowledge base, and techniques.

It’s asinine to claim one side can do some type of hardware/software magic the other can not.

Both machines were built to get the absolute most they can get out of the hardware. Both are “balanced” both are “efficient” both have addressed bottlenecks. Both have a lot of the same developers, engineers, and manufacturers working on the parts.

Only thing left is numbers. Any effort to deny those numbers, is to deny reality.

There's a Ryzen 9 processor at 4.3GHz delivering comparable and, in some cases better performance, than an Intel i9 at 5GHz. Why? Efficiency.

Numbers tell a story, yes, but not all of it.

 

[Agnostic2020]

There are a lot more tweets and retweets that only make reference to Playstation.

I mean, it's pretty obvious he has a bias to the brand.



Funny, they created the game for all platforms, yet he shows the PS4 version.

Wtf ? Its the one that sells the most and more people have it . Why did he have to show xbox version ?

 

[CJY]

TFs only stopped mattering when PS5 officially had less

Come on man, just because people used to believe one thing at one time, doesn't mean it holds true today whatsoever.

If your hypthesis is true, that TFLOPs only stopped mattering when PS5 had less, then when did we stop worrying about bits in consoles? Or polygon counts? or Mhz in CPUs.

Times change, you TFLOP people need to get with the program, cos I think the vast, vast majority of the world have moved on, so you don't want to get stuck in the past.

Maybe you're happy living in the past, and that's fine, but at the very least please stop trying to drag everyone else down with you.

 

[hyperbertha]

On paper? Nope. Can't speak on in practice as we haven't seen either in detail. But not in terms of power.

However, are there ways it's more efficient that can minimize the gap between the two? Possibly, if Cerny is to be believed. And I've not seen him engage in BS before.

Like I said, homeslice, I'm a realist. Numbers don't "hurt" me like you want them to.

According to Cerny AND this crytek dev, the higher clocks provide a rasterization advantage. quote: "spite the differences in CU count, the two consoles’ performance is almost the same. An interesting analogy from an IGN reporter was that the Xbox Series X GPU is like an 8-cylinder engine, and the PlayStation 5 is like turbocharged 6- cylinder engine. Raising the clock speed on the PlayStation 5 seems to me to have a number of benefits, such as the memory management, rasterization, and other elements of the GPU whose performance is related to the frequency not CU coun " So yes is the answer i think and I'll believe engineers that work with graphics comps not random FUD artists.

 

[DaMonsta]

There's a Ryzen 9 processor at 4.3GHz delivering comparable and, in some cases better performance, than an Intel i9 at 5GHz. Why? Efficiency.

Numbers tell a story, yes, but not all of it.

You are comparing completely different hardware made by different manufacturers across different generations.

You playing dumb, or you serious here?

 

[ShadowWolf712]

They're the identical architecture, so if nothing on paper is superior throughout the entire pipeline or can present itself as being so that would translate directly into action as a 100% no.

This is why I keep coming back to the 2080 Super and 2080 Ti, because the rift between those two cards is about the same as here yet people would never argue where those cards stand, no one would be so foolish.

It's not a problem here though because brand loyalty and fanboyism clouds judgement surrounding something which is functionally clear.

Well, we shall see. As I said though, I've never seen Cerny BS about something. If he says they can do it, they probably can.

But you're literally one of the last people who gets to talk about fanboyism, broski.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

You are comparing completely different hardware made by different manufacturers across different generations.

You playing dumb, or you serious here?

The hardware isn't wholly AMD, both companies have their own stuff in the mix in terms of coding and efficiency.

Again, whether that will make any discernable impact remains to be seen, but it's still possible. All I'm saying.

 

[Hobbygaming]

No one is downplaying anything, that's the delusion taking hold again. What's happening is not us downplaying anything related to the system, but people such as yourself and others completely unrealistically giving the PlayStation 5 GPU some magical leg up it simply doesn't have.

We're not tearing the system down, we're tearing you down, you're the problem not the hardware.

Like I've said I'm not saying the PS5 is more powerful but things aren't as black and white as you're putting them

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Well, we shall see. As I said though, I've never seen Cerny BS about something. If he says they can do it, they probably can.

But you're literally one of the last people who gets to talk about fanboyism, broski.

Where did Cerny ever state that his GPU could overcome or even come close to matching or surpassing something which is on level with the Series X? Didn't happen, he knows better, the community however does not. Wild fantasies are created here.

Also I can say whatever I please as long as it's objective and supported by reality, you're not going to railroad me with a genetic fallacy.

 

[chitzy]

This fanboy shit is super pathetic.

 

[DaMonsta]

The hardware isn't wholly AMD, both companies have their own stuff in the mix.

Again, whether that will make any discernable impact remains to be seen, but it's still possible. All I'm saying.

The majority of what runs these consoles is developed and manufactured by the same people.

The biggest difference between them is the target BOM. Xbox aimed higher. Xbox will have better performance.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

Where did Cerny ever state that his GPU could overcome or even come close to matching or surpassing something which is on level with the Series X? Didn't happen, he knows better, the community however does not. Wild fantasies are created here.

A;so I can say whatever I please as long as it's objective and supported by reality, you're not going to railroad me with a genetic fallacy.

You're still insisting I'm saying anything about surpassing or matching. I'm not. No one serious is.

It's about the PS5 performing better than you keep insisting it will. Which it probably will. Not as much as the fanboy camp wants it to, no, but that's not what I'm arguing, so...

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Like I've said I'm not saying the PS5 is more powerful but things aren't as black and white as you're putting them

This literally is not a thing, this isn't a CPU, these are not cores that need to be coded around to thread an application. Compute units are leveraged universally and automatically throw themselves in their entirety at a rendering task.

The only limiting factor is a CPU's ability to send instructions, clearly that won't be an issue here.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

The majority of what runs these consoles is developed and manufactured by the same people.

The biggest difference between them is the target BOM. Xbox aimed higher. Xbox will have better performance.

Of course it'll have the BETTER overall performance, that's never been my argument.

My point is that there are some processes the PS5 may handle more efficiently, allowing for more performance than Team Xbox is willing to admit.

 

[Gediminas]

No one is downplaying anything, that's the delusion taking hold again. What's happening is not us downplaying anything related to the system, but people such as yourself and others completely unrealistically giving the PlayStation 5 GPU some magical leg up it simply doesn't have.

We're not tearing the system down, we're tearing you down, you're the problem not the hardware.

i didn't see anything from you apart from crying and downplaying PS5 (16 pages, what a dedication).
writing dumb comments and pretending that you are not pushing your own narrative.

everyone with more than 100 IQ understood what Ali is saying, just those xbox fans can't understand the reality and what he is saying, so everything what i saw here is basically : lies from them or they downplays it or they just read and quote selectively.

i will give you a hint, bottom line, because you are really out of touch of reality : console must be a cohesive unit to perform for the best as it can.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

If I outright say that the Xbox is still the stronger console, will some of the kids in here feel better? Yikes.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

i didn't see anything from you apart from crying and downplaying PS5.
writing dumb comments and pretending that you are not pushing your own narrative.

everyone with more than 100 IQ understood what Ali is saying, just those xbox fans can't understand the reality and what he is saying, so everything what i saw here is basically : lies from them or they downplays it or they just read and quote selectively.

i will give you a hint, bottom line, because you are really out of touch of reality : console must be a cohesive unit to perform for the best as it can.

CPU is better, there's more bandwidth afforded to the GPU, it has a wider bus, it has more TMU's, ROPs (likely), CU's, and pixel and texel fillrates.

What exactly isn't cohesive? At least try to make sense.

If I outright say that the Xbox is still the stronger console, will some of the kids in here feel better? Yikes.

No, because as I previously noted it doesn't need validation, the hardware is what it is, it's agnostic of belief.

 

[Disco_]

Whats great is that you can actually buy the xbox one version and get the xbox series X version for free. Hopefully, its the same case for PS5.

PSN already has the system in place. Let's see if CDPR take advantage of it. Let's hope it doesn't turn into a "MS marketing deal blame game".

 

[DaMonsta]

Of course it'll have the BETTER overall performance, that's never been my argument.

My point is that there are some processes the PS5 may handle more efficiently, allowing for more performance than Team Xbox is willing to admit.

But this is just wishful thinking on your part.

We gotta disbelieve what we already know about this hardware to come to your conclusion.

 

[CJY]

The majority of what runs these consoles is developed and manufactured by the same people.

The biggest difference between them is the target BOM. Xbox aimed higher. Xbox will have better performance.

This is dense and an oversimplification to the extreme.

Not taking into account any factors such as design, philosophy, intent, or engineering.

It's like saying your dinner tastes better than mine because you spent more on your ingredients... but mine was cooked by a Michelin-Star chef and yours was cooked by... you. It's not a perfect analogy, but it's not far of from what you're saying.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

But this is just wishful thinking on your part.

We gotta disbelieve what we already know about this hardware to come to your conclusion.

You really don't, as there's still a lot about it we don't know.

If this was a stock setup, that'd be absolutely the case, but it's not. There's still stuff up in the air. And again, Cerny's not one to BS. If he says he's got a method to his madness, I'm inclined to believe him for now.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

No, because as I previously noted it doesn't need validation, the hardware is what it is, it's agnostic of belief.

That's funny, given your post history indicates a constant seeking of validation, but

 

[DaMonsta]

This is dense and an oversimplification to the extreme.

Not taking into account any factors such as design, philosophy, intent, or engineering.

Design philosophy and intent are the same. It’s what’s dictated by being a console.

It's like saying your dinner tastes better than mine because you spent more on your ingredients... but mine was cooked by a Michelin-Star chef and yours was cooked by... you. It's not a perfect analogy, but it's not far of from what you're saying.

No, it’s not.

 

[TheStruggler]

You think they would have learned after all their fake "insiders" and GitHub.

How's that 13.3 TF hype train doing these days?

Hows the exclusive games coming this year.....oh right you dont have any now until nov unless gets delayed.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

You really don't, as there's still a lot about if you don't know.

If this was a stock setup, that'd be absolutely the case, but it's not. There's still stuff up in the air. And again, Cerny's not one to BS. If he says he's got a method to his madness, I'm inclined to believe him for now.

But we already know everything.

We know the bus width, we know the bandwidth, we know the TMU's, we know the ROPs, we know the shader cores, we know the CU's, we know the frequency, we know the CPU frequency.

There's no pervasive element waiting to spring into action, we know the throughput capability of the GPU and the remainder of the systems pipeline.

 

[TheAmazingSpiderMan]

Of course it'll have the BETTER overall performance, that's never been my argument.

My point is that there are some processes the PS5 may handle more efficiently, allowing for more performance than Team Xbox is willing to admit.

Lol these meltdowns are amazing, I mean No1 is saying PS5 is more powerful than the XSeX, the message from the dev essentially is ‘PS5 is easier to work with’ and these guys are losing their minds over that, absolutely amazing.

 

[CJY]

Design philosophy and intent are the same. It’s what’s dictated by being a console.
No, it’s not.

You said the BOM is higher therefore it's more powerful. How does that makes sense? Economies of scale are a real thing. The cheaper console can turn out more powerful. Like how cheaper ingredients can produce a more tasty meal than expensive ones.

 

[DaMonsta]

You said the BOM is higher therefore it's more powerful. How does that makes sense? Economies of scale are a real thing. The cheaper console can turn out more powerful. Like how cheaper ingredients can produce a more tasty meal than expensive ones.

No it can’t when both consoles are pulling from the same hardware engineers and manufacturers.

And please stop with the food analogies. They don’t work.