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[MagiusNecros]

I have more fun being a Samus Aran or Boba Fett archetype taking bounties or blowing up ships. Besthesda stories especially their main campaigns are rather lacking.

However when you have games like Cyberpunk, Baldur's Gate 3, Witcher(primarily contract quests), Mass Effect and maybe KotoR 2(at least for Kreia) I don't think you are going to get a really compelling narrative.

I'm sure with mods and AI companion characters will get better dialogue, interaction and make the other companions romanceable as well. Having only 4 love interests and they are all pretty lame is amusing to me.

Muria a throwaway NPC has more personality then any of them.

Although if it was up to me I'd just want to go on adventures with The Hunter. Can't really hate the guy.

Much like with Fallout and Skyrim I make my own story. I ultimately prefer to just search for all the Derelict ships. Just to figure out what happened.

Constellation is just an awful group to be around overall. Things have to be a certain way for their approval and they are kinda unhinged. Like you can make all the good choices and they still have a problem with you.

Kinda hope there is an alternate start mod down the road so I can just start out as a Space Pirate since it is by far the best faction. Only 2 factions worth caring about is Crimson Fleet and UC Vanguard by far. The rest are trash.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Can you point me toward a well written Bethesda game?

The one that has “Lusty Argonian Maid” as one of the books.

 

[GymWolf]

I'm 30 or so hours in and more and more i'm convinced that this game is nothing more than a glorified techdemo of the new engine for the next Fallout/TES.

A game about space and planetary exploration that tries to hinder you from explore on every possible opportunity.
The space exploration is basically non existent as there is no difference between using the so called Starmap and choosing your destination from list of planet/locations, the ship gameplay is just a series of small events as you never navigate with the ship per se, the writing you exactly as Evilore said (plain is the right word), the shooting mechanics are serviceable at best, the skill tree is dull and obnoxious, the UI is one of the worst ones that i can remember in a triple A game, the already famous "Bethesda Cinematography Filter" is back. And the list goes on and on...

Cyberpunk 2077 1.0 swallows this game in every single aspect. Trying to enjoy this script after playing Baldur's Gate 3 is a hard task.

The only thing that i really enjoyed was that at least the main characters are well modelled (finally) and the Ship Builder, which is a copy of games like Ultimate Dreadnoughts. Yes Bethesda, we know...
But hey! You can construct a ship just to see it on the take off/landing cutscenes or on some random uninteresting encounter.

And don't you dare to marry Sarah. Every single one of his dialogues will become one of the cringiest romance interactions that i ever saw in a game. Even worse than when she was just the insecure Navy's over achiever star captain.

Right now i'm basically rushing through the main story because i saw that maybe, just maybe, the "new game" has some interest twist not seen in other games of this type. And probably by that time that i get there, i may see some interesting mods being developed.

Main characters are barely better(??) than ps4 launch characters dude...

 

[Fredrik]

Yes, they ditched 24 hour NPC routines, which was one of their biggest successes in previous games.

It’s disappointing. Space ships go in and out of landing zones and even land out in the wild, alien creatures move around and attack each other and sleep, making the game seem to have life, pretty sure I’ve seen Constellation people sleep in their beds in the Lodge too. But then you also have NPCs only moving around doing different idle actions in a small boxed area all day long. It’s not as bad as Cyberpunk’s walk path NPCs around launch but it’s not nearly as good as in Skyrim, huge step back on that.

 

[damidu]

it’s decades old bethesda mediocrity meeting more recent cultural brain rot.
recipe for rpg writing disaster basically.

game is such a fail on all fronts honestly, this is just one part if it

 

[mejin]

Bethesda is not a top dog anymore.

And with MS leadership I don't expect them to be better.

 

[BigLee74]

I agree on the mostly poor writing, and the awful persuade system that if successful nearly always results in an anti-climatic scenario.

However, as a game and a package, Starfield is absolutely a better game than all Mass Effects (and I say this as a guy who lives that Trilogy).

It’s real issue though is its sterile presentation. Mostly boring looking characters in mostly boring outfits. The font and background for the dialog options - it’s all just too cold and clinical.

I have just played through a little ‘gang’ side quest on Neon, and despite it feeling as Dangerous as T-Birds v Scorpions in Grease, it was fun with some interesting gang outfits.

 

[Ozzie666]

Maybe one of the worst written western RPG's in recent memory, especially for the expectations. I'll say the companions are nothing close to Bioware's efforts, Mass Effect, KOTOR, or SWTOR are in a different league. I'll even say it's even a step down from Elder Scrolls Online in many parts.

Baldur's Gate 3 really did some damage to Starfield in a few areas, characters and story are some of them.

The OP should make a site or something, where they can feel safe telling us how they really feel. Oh wait ..

 

[Topher]

It’s disappointing. Space ships go in and out of landing zones and even land out in the wild, alien creatures move around and attack each other and sleep, making the game seem to have life, pretty sure I’ve seen Constellation people sleep in their beds in the Lodge too. But then you also have NPCs only moving around doing different idle actions in a small boxed area all day long. It’s not as bad as Cyberpunk’s walk path NPCs around launch but it’s not nearly as good as in Skyrim, huge step back on that.

One of the things I noticed was that in Skyrim and Oblivion is that if you followed an NPC through a door then you would see them on the other side. Most of the time in Starfield, an NPC goes through the door and then on the other side they simply disappear. Little things like this are definitely a step back from the previous games. I still enjoyed the game quite a bit overall, but can't help but think Bethesda took a number of shortcuts to get this out on time.

 

[TheDarkPhantom]

I genuinely think Starfield will age about as well as a rotting pig carcass but some seem to absolutely love it. Fascinating that Xbox' great, green hope has so many detractors though and for myriad reasons.

 

[EviLore]

I'm actually thinking about playing through it again with sone mods to update the visuals.

The fact that the mod community is still actively working on the game with huge projects like Tamriel Rebuilt is amazing.

 

[FunkMiller]

If I was still a student (thank god I'm not) and I was writing a thesis about puritanism in modern popular culture, this game would be one of the central narratives I'd quote to back up my argument.

The total and complete lack of human sexuality is quite incredible. And I'm not just talking about the lack of big titty waifus. I mean there is NO human sexuality, anywhere, at any time.

It's like the game was written and designed by Mormons.

A lot of people may dismiss this lack as something not important to a game of this nature, but it absolutely fucking is. If you're going to create a game that's meant to be about the future of humanity, reaching out into the stars and colonising it, you have to at least touch upon all aspects of the human condition, if you want to create a compelling narrative that the player can achieve some sort of empathy and connection with.

This wilful censorship of the smuttier side of human experience renders the game sterile. It feels inert.

And the game has absolutely no issues with violence whatsoever, of course. That's everywhere, at all times. It truly is an American game.

 

[CGNoire]

Seems very at odds with what some others have said in the starfeild thread......where this post belongs.

You Fucking Moron

 

[winjer]

If I was still a student (thank god I'm not) and I was writing a thesis about puritanism in modern popular culture, this game would be one of the central narratives I'd quote to back up my argument.

The total and complete lack of human sexuality is quite incredible. And I'm not just talking about the lack of big titty waifus. I mean there is NO human sexuality, anywhere, at any time.

It's like the game was written and designed by Mormons.

A lot of people may dismiss this lack as something not important to a game of this nature, but it absolutely fucking is. If you're going to create a game that's meant to be about the future of humanity, reaching out into the stars and colonising it, you have to at least touch upon all aspects of the human condition, if you want to create a compelling narrative that the player can achieve some sort of empathy and connection with.

This wilful censorship of the smuttier side of human experience renders the game sterile. It feels inert.

And the game has absolutely no issues with violence whatsoever, of course. That's everywhere, at all times. It truly is an American game.

So true. It's like Bethesda is imposing the Hays Code on themselves.

 

[Kurotri]

I still like the game overall, but I agree on every point. When I first started the game, I thought people were crazy for giving this a 7. However, around 50 hours in, I gotta say that the game loses a little bit of steam, and as an overall package it's not as good as other modern RPGs (not just in writing), but worse than their previous games too. I intend to finish it and pour more hours into it, but I fear for Elder Scrolls 6.

I don't know about anyone else, but to me Oblivion is still their best game and it has been a very constant, downward spiral after that. Skyrim was not as good, Fallout 4 wasn't as good as Skyrim, and Starfield seems worse than both.

 

[anthraticus]

Best part about Oblivious was the music and dark brotherhood questline. But that's really where they started dumbing shit down incredibly with crap like the idiot compass and beyond awful level scaling.

Oblivion Review :: rpg codex > doesn't scale to your level

RPG Codex > putting the 'role' back in role-playing. A highly prestigious gaming magazine with news and views on the latest and not so latest RPGs.

rpgcodex.net

If you want some decent RPGs, play some modded Morrowind and Daggerfall and stop there as far as Beth goes..





Or this...

 

[eNT1TY]

Only took me 8 hours to decide I wasn't feeling it.

I gave it twice as long, that is where i tuned off and have no inclination of coming back.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

If I was still a student (thank god I'm not) and I was writing a thesis about puritanism in modern popular culture, this game would be one of the central narratives I'd quote to back up my argument.

The total and complete lack of human sexuality is quite incredible. And I'm not just talking about the lack of big titty waifus. I mean there is NO human sexuality, anywhere, at any time.

It's like the game was written and designed by Mormons.

A lot of people may dismiss this lack as something not important to a game of this nature, but it absolutely fucking is. If you're going to create a game that's meant to be about the future of humanity, reaching out into the stars and colonising it, you have to at least touch upon all aspects of the human condition, if you want to create a compelling narrative that the player can achieve some sort of empathy and connection with.

This wilful censorship of the smuttier side of human experience renders the game sterile. It feels inert.

And the game has absolutely no issues with violence whatsoever, of course. That's everywhere, at all times. It truly is an American game.

lol hey at least Mormons like to get married and make babies. In Starfield it’s like nobody even considers that a worthy pursuit.

 

[Drizzlehell]

To be fair, I can't remember any Bethesda RPG that had an interesting main quest or companion characters. That never stopped them from being engrossing for me, though. Their strength, as far as storytelling goes, usually was in individual side quests and random, memorable NPCs and isolated bits of dialogue that usually end up being meme'd on or creep into the gaming zeitgeist for how memorable they are ("criminal scum", "arrow to the knee", "settlements", etc.)

But not once have I ever given a flying shit about the main story in any of their games, especially in Fallout 3 which is ironically one of my favorite games of all time. Exploration, world-building, combat, customization, emergent gameplay - that's where the meat of these games is for me. If I'd find myself starved for a good story then I'd probably play something else. Luckily, I don't care about the story in Bethesda RPGs. To me, it's just a slightly more sophisticated way to give players an excuse to go somewhere. I appreciate the storytelling of Starfield more than a game like Elite Dangerous, which is devoid of any story or characters, and the most you can hope for are ChatGPT-generated mission briefings. But I don't really expect it to be as captivating as Mass Effect games either. It's a nice little in-between that provides some enjoyable context for the gameplay but beyond that, I don't care and I don't even want to be bogged down in too much plot.

 

[MasterCornholio]

The fact that the mod community is still actively working on the game with huge projects like Tamriel Rebuilt is amazing.

There are a ton of mod guides out there. Which do you recommend?

 

[EviLore]

There are a ton of mod guides out there. Which do you recommend?

It's been many years for me, can't offer any current advice.

 

[Fredrik]

One of the things I noticed was that in Skyrim and Oblivion is that if you followed an NPC through a door then you would see them on the other side. Most of the time in Starfield, an NPC goes through the door and then on the other side they simply disappear. Little things like this are definitely a step back from the previous games. I still enjoyed the game quite a bit overall, but can't help but think Bethesda took a number of shortcuts to get this out on time.

Yeah I enjoyed it too, and I’m kinda addicted to the game loop, the procedural generation makes it seem like I discover all new areas and replaying has been fun, base building keeps me occupied too and entertained.

But I’m hoping they leave a team to keep iterating on it for a 2.0 moment like Cyberpunk. I could list so many things I wish they did better. And the rants I’ve already posted about is pissing me off, huge missed opportunity.

The modders could possibly improve some things once the real tools are out, if they’re still interested. We’ll see.

Story-telling and role-playing is so-so imo, small bits of greatness here and there, but often ends up feeling rushed, like that colony ship. I liked the pirate faction though and the consequences there was cool I’d say. Haven’t tried the vanguard faction yet but plan to do it on this playthrough.

 

[anthraticus]

But not once have I ever given a flying shit about the main story in any of their games, especially in Fallout 3 which is ironically one of my favorite games of all time. Exploration, world-building, combat, customization, emergent gameplay -

Yea, they really don't do good emergent gameplay though. Look at a game like og Deus Ex for that.

 

[Jadsey]

I couldn't agree more with the OP.

I am so on the edge of selling my XSX. I was waiting on Starfield because I had hopes it would be decent...it's rubbish and I'm very disappointed.

MS just don't release good games.

Unfortunately, I'm not too hopeful of the direction Jim Ryan is taking Sony either!

I'm off to sit in a dark room.....

 

[mrmustard]

Seems very at odds with what some others have said in the starfeild thread......where this post belongs.

2005 account perm banned just for this? wow.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Yea, they really don't do good emergent gameplay though. Look at a game like og Deus Ex for that.

Of course they are. It's a well known fact that you can basically break those games if you're creative enough.

 

[anthraticus]

Of course they are. It's a well known fact that you can basically break those games if you're creative enough.

I said good emergent gameplay. Not just being able to 'break the game'

 

[Badlucktroll]

Honest question here:

How are people now feeling about Bethesda's ability to deliver Elder Scrolls 6?

Will it be a radical departure / re-invention, or will it simply be a prettier version of Skyrim? (maybe it will feature flying mounts..?)

I think they’ll do something nutty, for example, make a magic horse or something a fundamental part of gameplay

 

[Kenneth Haight]

Love the way EviLore has added the #fact tag

 

[CGNoire]

Theres not gonna be any "Races" in ESVI is there?

 

[StereoVsn]

Oh, wow, I was waiting to play the game once technical issues are resolved, and thank God for that. I would drop this game quicky with these sorts of dialogue choices and writing.

I hated Andromeda's writing and characterization and this one sounds even worse. Sigh...

Oh well, will wait a year or two for some mods and price drop to run through the interesting parts.

 

[ANDS]

I agree on the mostly poor writing, and the awful persuade system that if successful nearly always results in an anti-climatic scenario.

However, as a game and a package, Starfield is absolutely a better game than all Mass Effects (and I say this as a guy who lives that Trilogy).

It’s real issue though is its sterile presentation. Mostly boring looking characters in mostly boring outfits. The font and background for the dialog options - it’s all just too cold and clinical.

I have just played through a little ‘gang’ side quest on Neon, and despite it feeling as Dangerous as T-Birds v Scorpions in Grease, it was fun with some interesting gang outfits.

How? Like this is a pretty spectacular comment to not back up. . .with anything. Whether through world building, characters, narrative or gameplay systems - how does SF best ME in anything but art design?

 

[mansoor1980]

Theres not gonna be any "Races" in ESVI is there?

 

[The Cockatrice]

Dialogues arent better either. Feels like AI talking most of the times and barely acted, as if theyre reading the text. It's not a good game but it aint all bad either I dunno, maybe its the nostalgia of their previous games that makes me keep playing it or I dunno.

 

[PotatoBoy]

Well said. This game is an abomination unlike anything I have yet seen come out of a AAA studio of this pedigree.

I have played all the other mainline Bethesda RPGs. The stories are always stupid and somewhat shallow, but still charming in their clunkiness. Starfield is totally different. It is abject and repulsive.

 

[StereoVsn]

Poor dialogue kills any subsequent play throughs of TES V for me. I still consider the game to be one of the crowning achievements in gaming for its time, but by 2023 standards it’s really bad.

Each time I reach Balgruuf in Whiterun it hits me like a brick wall, and I uninstall.

The game is saved by its high fantasy setting, however that’s not enough.

The game is saved by thousands of mods that provide a lot of options. Some of them provide much better storytelling vs Bethesda's fare.

Skyrim with a few hundred properly curated mods is not bad. Fallout 4 is worse due to voiced protag and the way factions have been setup. It sounds that Starfield is downhill from that one.

I am still hopeful that modders can help over next few years. Next Elder Scrolls is years away after all.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

I'm actually thinking about playing through it again with sone mods to update the visuals.

Personally I think it's just fine vanilla - use "OpenMW" and you can upscale UI, play at 2k or whatever you want. Really everything looks pretty good, except the models some might argue but I like them just fine. So you should be able to get away with minimal mods, at least IMO.

 

[StereoVsn]

Question, can you just shoot your companions in the head and proceed without them if they piss you off or are they "protected NPCs"?

 

[Drizzlehell]

I said good emergent gameplay. Not just being able to 'break the game'

 

[Freeman76]

I dont play Betgesda games for the story so it doesnt bother me in the slightest, I skip most of it anyway. Anyone who does buy a Bethesda game to enjoy a good story, though, I feel for because what I did take in was absolute drivel.

The companions are a bunch of cunts, the only one I roll with as Anreja cos she doesnt give a fuck, but in NG+ I'm going lone wolf

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Well I read it all and must commend you for putting the time to make those assessments.

It just makes wanting to play this less appealing but also baffling how certain scores can be handed out so easily. The sum of the parts isn't enough to make up for the archaic decisions.

Yes. They simply need to do better. They're fortunate the game has some marketing and hype or else this would be universally panned if it not a Bethesda game.

It's a mediocre 6/10.

 

[BigLee74]

How? Like this is a pretty spectacular comment to not back up. . .with anything. Whether through world building, characters, narrative or gameplay systems - how does SF best ME in anything but art design?

Fair question.

Better graphics (ok a given due to the age of Mass Effect), far superior shooting mechanics, first person (more my area), spaceships and space fighting, a significantly larger game world that you can get lost in - where nearly all hand crafted areas are complex and more interesting than those in Mass Effect.

Both are very light in terms of RPG mechanics (again, I’m ok with that because it’s not really my thing).

I admit the lore in Mass Effect is truly top notch - unrivalled perhaps. Companions to a man/woman are also much more memorable. I love my Garrus and Wrex! I’ve played through the trilogy twice. Whilst i enjoyed it much more the first time, it definitely still holds up to this day.

I’ve just simply had more fun with Starfield despite its glaring flaws. And that’s what I play games for.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

So glad EviLore is saying this shit. Not on some console war nonsense, he knows his RPGs.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Question, can you just shoot your companions in the head and proceed without them if they piss you off or are they "protected NPCs"?

No, they are quite protected. The scourge of "essential NPC" is pretty heavy in this game. One day I'd like to go back to Morrowind style. At most you can send them home like some bad dog.

 

[RJMacready73]

Bethesda games where never really written well in the first place, I certainly never dumped countless hours and reruns into Skyrim for the story or characters, it was the open world and endless possibilities on the horizon that made me love that game, the quest to go here that always ended up with me being sidetracked by some cave I spotted high up on a hillside that led to a 2hr dungeon crawl, the world felt alive and inhabited by NPCs going about their day.

Starfield seems to have from what I've read and watched thrown that large single explorable map out the window in favour of smaller zones that all need to be loaded in and in doing so lost that Bethesda magic and instead were left with a sterile gender neutral game about exploring the universe with no actual feeling of exploration!

If this is what they did with the unlimited possibilities of space what the fuck are they gonna do with the next eldar scrolls, don't feel so bad now that MS bought them up tbh

 

[Sgt.Asher]

Starfield fails in a lot of regards. Going back to cyberpunk made me realize how travel is such a slog in Starfield. Combat too I suppose.

 

[Shut0wen]

I mean yeah its dull but so is fo4 and skyrims, actually think the writing is far better then skyrims fo4 imo, skyrim is one of the most basic writing in any game

 

[anthraticus]

I know this thread ia about the writing, but as someone said in it earlier, that's just one of their downfalls among MANY, so lets not only focus on that.

 

[Ginzeen]

Starfield fails in a lot of regards. Going back to cyberpunk made me realize how travel is such a slog in Starfield. Combat too I suppose.

how is travel a slog when you can pretty much fast travel anywhere?

 

[Grildon Tundy]

This is such a fine article with challenging vocabulary to me. I've talked before about why NeoGAF doesn't have review front for games on Meta/Open-critic? Newly-established sites have their say already.

This will help the site even more.

Interesting! How would this work? Maybe a "Forum Review OT" for each new game, where everyone who wants to submits their own review post with a forum-standardized review-system (e.g, 0-100) and the "official forum review for submission to OpenCritic" is determined by the one that gets the most positive reactions after X days?