• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Eurogamer: Cyberpunk's storytelling makes Starfield seem ancient

Do you think Bethesda needs to change their game design?

  • Yes

    Votes: 261 74.4%
  • No

    Votes: 34 9.7%
  • They can still push it for a couple years

    Votes: 9 2.6%
  • They just need to ask some billions for Microsoft a better engine

    Votes: 17 4.8%
  • I didnt play Cyberpunk, i can't opinate

    Votes: 3 0.9%
  • I didnt play Starfield, i can't opinate

    Votes: 27 7.7%

  • Total voters
    351

Draugoth

Gold Member
Eurogamer has sput out an article, saying that Starfield storytelling is very bad compared to Cyberpunk

What's your opinion?

32775955-coverarts-von-cyberpunk-und-starfield-schraeg-zusammengeschnitten-2jSgZ4LVFtfe.jpg


I'm jumping to a new planet in Starfield and my space cowboy companion Sam Coe needs to have a serious conversation. He launches into a long story about his estranged partner but he's facing the wrong way. Stuck on a ladder in the middle of my ship, he tells his sad tale to a blank wall.

Restarting the conversation helps a little. Sam is looking at me now, but his mouth and eyebrows are operating on different wavelengths. Occasionally his face settles on a recognisable expression, but the in-between moments - as he reorganises his wayward features - are deeply strange. All the while he stands stock-still and completely upright, like a toy soldier stuck in his plastic packaging.

Like all of Starfield's characters, he does not touch anything, or anyone. He does not eat. He does not use the bathroom. Sam Coe rotates on the spot and delivers his lines until the next stage of his personal side quest unlocks. Sam Coe is a horrible, distorted facsimile of a human being.

starfield sam coe romance i love you optionI don't think it's going to work out between us, Sam. | Image credit: Eurogamer/Bethesda

Starfield's stilted performances have broken the game for me. It suffers terribly in comparison with Cyberpunk's rich cast of irreverent characters, who are connected to their environment: moving around, sitting down, pouring shots, brandishing weapons. They can be surprising, sometimes. One random side gig briefing takes place in the front seats of a car, horizontally reclined, because your novice spy contact thinks that's the best way to hide in a vehicle.

Small things make a huge difference, like cross-talk between characters. Sure, it can feel a bit like you're taking part in an interactive play as characters take their assigned positions in a given scene, but there's no sense of the game loading up yet another audio file recorded in an airless booth. In the same gig you meet a pair of bickering cops and escort them from their besieged police station. Well-directed voice work, expressive faces, and strong motion capture deliver a comedy bit that actually works. It's a sequence that could happily sit in a Tarantino gangster flick.

In a year or two, these are the moments I will actually remember. For all of Starfield's qualities as a meditative exploration game, its dated, clunky storytelling means its universe feels strange and empty. The game does have some good stories to tell - Sam Coe's kid, Cora, is a welcome burst of enthusiasm and it's fun to see CEOs matching wits on the glorified oil rig, Neon. But it's hard to summon up any enthusiasm for the prospect of expansions or sequels when I could be starting another bumbling playthrough of Baldur's Gate 3, or wrestling with the growling inner demons of Disco Elysium's broken protagonist. Even the endless misery of Diablo 4's NPCs is preferable to a galaxy populated by witless mannequins.

Alex from Cyberpunk's Phantom Liberty expansion lounges against a railing at night.Cyberpunk's characters always make sure they're framed against beautiful backdrops. | Image credit: Eurogamer, CD Projekt RED
Not so long ago Starfield's lacklustre performances would seem quite ordinary. There hasn't been a memetic moment like the "my face is tired" scene in Mass Effect Andromeda to particularly draw attention to how outdated Starfield feels, but it's worth acknowledging where the game stands in a landscape full of titles that haven't stopped innovating and finding new ways to further games as a storytelling medium.

Spider-Man 2 is about to release, and I still remember the moment everyone realised that Insomniac recorded parallel dialogue performances for Spidey in the first game, so he could sound breathless if the player was web slinging and calm if not. Cyberpunk's citizens showcase an extraordinary range of animations and behaviours - Night City seems fit to burst as a result. God of War's Mimir tells stories that break off and resume naturally as you fight through the realms. Sunless Sea and Sunless Skies weave elaborate narratives using the classic choose-your-own-adventure framework. All of these have a quality that Starfield lacks. They understand that when it comes to telling stories, people matter more than planets.
 
Last edited:

Mossybrew

Member
Yeah it's pretty obvious they are stuck in the past and haven't kept up with their contemporaries in this aspect of the game. Hopefully the next Elder Scrolls will be better.
 

Roufianos

Member
Starfield has the most forgettable story/characters. I know you can say the same about Skyrim and Fallout 3 but man, no reason why things can't improve and get with the times.

I just travel with the Adoring Fan because at least he says some funny shit from time to time.
 

DonJorginho

Banned
It's not just storytelling, it's immersion, sound design, gunplay, graphical fidelity, movement and traversal.

Starfield just feels worse every time I try and go back to it, if the only thing you have to parade about is how potatoes remain in your ship when you go do other things, it's maybe time to reinvent your foundations as a studio.
 

Luipadre

Member
Took a break from Starfield and playing Cyberpunk now...won't be able to return to Starfield. It pales in comparison in almost every single aspect.

Did the same, still waiting for their first patch and DLSS, 1 month 2 tiny hotfixes. wtf bethesda... It will be hard for me to return, i just finished phantom liberty today
 

RIPN2022

Member
Took a break from Starfield and playing Cyberpunk now...won't be able to return to Starfield. It pales in comparison in almost every single aspect.
In Starfield, I stole a wrench in front of security, got arrested and got coerced into working undercover to bring down the biggest pirate fleet in the star system. It really was the most immersion breaking experience I've ever had in a game.
 

KyoZz

Tag, you're it.
Yes, it needs to evolve but on the other hand, I don't want that to happen at the expense of what makes their games great.
CP tries too hard to be "cool", the slang is so cringe it feels like it was written by a 15 year old emo girl and just that was a big turn off after an hour of the expansion. I don't know how I've put 130h in CP2077 honestly.
 

Sethbacca

Member
Ya know, I'd have probably said yes, but that one CDPR dev that spoke up kind of has me thinking he may have the right of it. There is room for the Bethesda style but clearly they need to focus on building a more curated world with less cut and space nonsense. That, and the problem they're going to run into with Gamepassification under MS is that these games are necessarily going to need to get smaller anyway to fit within the Gamepass business model.
 

JokerMM

Gay porn is where it's at.
Yes, it needs to evolve but on the other hand, I don't want that to happen at the expense of what makes their games great.
CP tries too hard to be "cool", the slang is so cringe it feels like it was written by a 15 year old emo girl and just that was a big turn off after an hour of the expansion. I don't know how I've put 130h in CP2077 honestly.
If CP feels like a 15 yo wrote it, than Starfield is some kindergarten level of cringe writing
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Have the been reading Gaf lmao?

I feel bad for Bethesda...kind of. People have been shitting on Starfield.
 

HL3.exe

Member
Agree, they need to dump Emil Pagliarulom from writing duties.

He's famous for the dark brotherhood questline in Oblivion and some missions in THIEF II, but everything after that is just unimaginative and boring.
 

Mortisfacio

Member
Went from BG3 > 14 hours of Starfield > CyberPunk. I'm finally doing the PL expansion after spending another 60-70 hours replaying the base game... it's going to be rough going back to Starfield. Starfield has that total sandbox vibe, but it's even small things like in Starfield that annoy me. Like why do you have to load into a shop in a city that has one room and one NPC? CyberPunk does this all so seamlessly in the open world, but there's a brief loading screen for so much in Starfield. I'm assuming it's the Creative Engine that just sucks so bad and is why that's a thing?
 
During the late 2000s and early 2010s I always had the impression that BGS and R* were the only two studios that could deliver those behemoth guaranteed GOTY material games with the highest expectations and they always delivered with their titles and sometimes even exceeded the expectations.
Nowadays I get the impression that BGS stagnated at some point and after games like FO4 (which was still relatively good but far from a masterpiece), FO76 and Starfield they just couldn't reach up to the expectations their fanbase has set for their games because of their past achievements.
Starfield really looks and plays like a game that could be achieved on the last gen and the very least expectation for that game was that it would be a next gen (now current gen) space RPG and they couldn't even deliver on that.
Sure, R* does not exactly cover itself with glory with their extreme milking of GTAO but just look at RDR2. That game could have been released this year and people would still call it a next gen experience (aside from the mission design or clunky controls for some which I think suit the game and the tone it tries to set perfectly).
It baffles me how Bethesda had so much time but never realized how much behind they are in many aspects to the competition. Maybe it's time to say goodbye to Todd and their ancient engine? I don't know but the future seems bleak for TES6 and that is coming from someone who considers Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim among the greatest games of all time.
 
Last edited:

Kacho

Member
I'm clearly in the minority as far as general consensus goes, but I much prefer Bethesda's approach. I found Cyberpunk dreadfully boring on my second playthough. Lot's of listening to characters talk endlessly and waiting for them to get in position to start their canned animations. I felt the same way about Witcher 3 though so I guess CDPR "RPGs" aren't for me.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I haven't played Cyberpunk, but I like Bethesda games just as they are.
Cyberpunk is pretty much the same for how story is related, but without the forced 'talking to each other' view that Starfield has.
Bethesda need to step it up, but the article seems to portray Cyberpunk as some revolutionary way of telling a story which it totally isnt.
 

xBlueStonex

Member
Sadly the same thing happened to me. Took a break from Starfield to jump into Phantom Liberty - was absolutely blown away. It is, literally, a masterpiece. The graphics, characters, story, dialogue, gameplay, etc. All are absolutely brilliant. I also love the revamps to the perk/cyberware systems.

Jumping over to Starfield again felt like reverting back an entire decade of game design. Not to mention the performance issues - Cyberpunk 2077 looks a million times better and runs so much better due to DLSS 3. Starfield laughably struggles on my 4090.

Some screens from my playthrough:

AQs5vx3.jpg

xGnY0dH.jpg

MHaeQpa.jpg
 
Last edited:

DeaDPo0L84

Member
Objectively yes it is, to be fair people could feel different but they'd be wrong. For all the talk of "Well Starfield is getting a lot of support so it'll be a completely different game in a year or two", I mean maybe, but the issues CP2077 had at launch versus Starfield are drastically different. CP2077 on consoles was mostly performance issues and the feeling that certain systems were half baked, Starfield has deep fundamental issues that can't be fixed with a patch or even mods for that matter. But I'd love to be proven wrong cause I feel like a moron buying two of the premium editions on PC. I put 50 hours into it and my wife played maybe 2-3 hours before she bowed out.
 
Bethesda are archaic imo
it's so weird man, I grow tired of it about 10 hrs in. I stopped buying their RPGs because it became so damn samey, they never evolved.

But some ppl love it. They love that it still "feels" like a Bethesda game, they love everything about how it's structured and plays. I swear Bethesda games live in a vacuum, they usually only get compared to other/past Bethesda games. They always seem to get the "pass" with statements like "That's how a Bethesda game has always been" or "No other game does more and is more complicated than a Bethesda game"

If you're one of those that asks "Whats new about this generation besides better graphics? Where is the evolution? What is better this gen?" I don't know how you can look at Bethesda and not nick them for bringing nothing "new" or "innovative" and I understand that not a lot of other studios do either... but their formula, the animations/dialogue/structure is old, it hasn't evolved much.

OT: I think it's perfectly fine to compare games within like genres. They are contemporaries, they should be judge/compared to their competition. These games don't live in a vacuum.
 
Last edited:

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Before Mod Support: Starfield is trash. Cyberpunk the King. Phantom Liberty trashes Todd into dust.

After a couple years of Mod Support: I always supported you. Bethesda always makes good RPGs. Phantom Liberty was overrated trash.

-----------
Got to love how Starfield either praised or it lives rent free in everyone's heads because they harbor so much resentment towards it.

CP2077 is overall a linear narrative handcrafted experience that is just Cyberpunk Doom while Starfield is just Skyrim in Space with Guns. And then starships that have bigger guns.
 
Cyberpunk is pretty much the same for how story is related, but without the forced 'talking to each other' view that Starfield has.
Bethesda need to step it up, but the article seems to portray Cyberpunk as some revolutionary way of telling a story which it totally isnt.
(This isn't really directly towards you, just rambling) I get why some might be disgruntled with Starfield, but to my mind not much else out there is even remotely "similar" to the way Bethesda games feel and I'd rather Bethesda keep making those games, warts and all, than a lot of complainers who probably wouldn't be happy anyway yelling at them until they change their philosophy to make something more like everyone else already is.

I'll check out Cyberpunk at some point when I can get it on sale, I don't have a lot of interest in the setting but I've heard good things about it.
 

unlurkified

Member
It’s obvious that Bethesda has been resting on their laurels since their success with Skyrim. People loving a game released in 2011 doesn’t mean they will if it’s released in 2023.
 

Roberts

Member
I've played Cyberpunk (which I liked a lot) a year ago and barely remember any of the missions and what they were about. There are at least 6 quests in Starfield that I won't forget anytime soon. Oh and Starfield has better sense of humour.

Also wouldn't be surprised if half of the people in this thread haven't played Starfield.
 
Top Bottom