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[Lagspike_exe]

Would be surprised if they managed to get a reasonably sized chip if they did go for N6 again. Perhaps they've done the calculations and found a much bigger N6 chip + additional cooling provisions is still cheaper than a smaller N4P chip.

Thinking about it this could be where Zen 2 and the lower GPU clock come in and start making sense.

If they were going to go with the N5/N4P family then Zen4/4c would make a load more sense, you're already building a distinct, new chip and why would you bother to port Zen 2's topography over to a new process node when Zen 4 already exists on it; and would likely be much easier to integrate and could perform much better at lower clocks?

As for 2180MHz GPU clock, that could suggest a hard limit for the bigger chip (though at that point I'd think it would have made more sense to go down to 54/60CU and get back that extra 53MHz just to simplify BC).

Perhaps it came down to:

N6 + Zen 2 CPU + 2180MHz GPU + heavy cooling = expensive

N5/N4P + Zen 4C CPU + ~2500MHZ GPU + moderate cooling = a little more expensive (due to node cost)

I still think the latter would be more elegant if they could do everything to keep that die as small as possible. Go for a curve ball and drop to a 192-Bit bus but use G6X or the absolute lowest binning GDDR7 cast offs. Keep on-die cache small but stack 3D V-Cache etc. lol As well as of course, 54/60CU rather than 60/64CU (though I'm unsure if the additional Shader Engine logic may offset the die space reduction from 4 less CUs).

Then again, after going through this. The RDNA3 chips this will likely be based on will be on N5 and (and RDNA4 on N4P or N3). So they'll be porting that topography up to N6 which seems like more palaver.

Highly unlikely. They would have to port RDNA 3.5 to N6 for that to work. The power usage of PS5 is already on the high end for a console. Packing the Pro in N6 with a reasonable TDP is not feasible.

 

[Crayon]

Will digital foundry put a fourth split screen slot for this or will they exclusively compare it to the 4090? Place your bets.

 

[64bitmodels]

Fighting games, 2D platformers with precise controls, rhythm games etc.

2d platformers are a toss up, both methods work fine and it's all up to preference

Keyboard is pretty good for fighters all things considered.

Rhythm games let me know you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Every popular rhythm game works better on keyboard than on controller and it's not even comparable. Unless you mean games that require specialized controllers to play (i.e Beatmania IIDX with the turntable, Sound Voltex with knobs, DDR with the dance mat) which aren't the same as a Dualsense.

 

[Playboi Carti]

Any predictions for the die size?

 

[playsaves3]

Otherwise it doesn't make sense if the upgraders can't play their physical PS5 games on the Pro, right??

About the price it will be 599€ with the option to add a drive.

Or 699 with the option to add a drive but I lean towards 599

 

[Leonidas]

Will digital foundry put a fourth split screen slot for this or will they exclusively compare it to the 4090? Place your bets.

The comparisons will be interesting when the 50-seires launch.

PS5 Pro might be on par with a 5060...

 

[nial]

btw do people here really think the ps5 pro will be 600 bucks?
700 at the very least. the current ps5 is 50 bucks away from the pro, not a big enough price jump for the specs we are getting here

Nah, even if Sony doesn't do any price cuts for the current Slim models this year, it still won't be any higher than $650 for the most expensive SKU.

PS5 Slim Digital - $450
PS5 Slim Disc - $500

We either get...

PS5 Pro Digital - $550
PS5 Pro Disc - $600

or...

PS5 Pro Digital - $600
PS5 Pro Disc - $650

 

[Codeblew]

btw do people here really think the ps5 pro will be 600 bucks?
700 at the very least. the current ps5 is 50 bucks away from the pro, not a big enough price jump for the specs we are getting here

$599 without the drive.

 

[playsaves3]

The Jaguar BC mode, lol.

Actually... I think it's more likely that while Zen 4 is small, their custom Zen 2 is even smaller. I agree it's a mistake.

Also we should be discussing zen 5 not zen 4

 

[Gaiff]

btw do people here really think the ps5 pro will be 600 bucks?
700 at the very least. the current ps5 is 50 bucks away from the pro, not a big enough price jump for the specs we are getting here

I say $600. $700 for those specs would be robbery unless the CPU got a substantial upgrade which I assume it did. No way to get much improved RT with that weak Zen 2.

 

[Leonidas]

Even $600 isn't that good of a deal.

Last gen we got PS4 Pro at $400. The same as launch PS4, for a bigger increase in GPU performance.

PS5 should be $400 by now and PS5 Pro should be $500. I'll be selling my PS5 and hoping for a price drop and PS5 Pro replacing the old price (like PS4 Pro).

 

[ZehDon]

... PS5 should be $400 by now and PS5 Pro should be $500. I'll be selling my PS5 and hoping for a price drop and PS5 Pro replacing the old price (like PS4 Pro).

There's simply not a huge amount to be saved with the manufacturing of the current consoles. Combined with the global practice of charging more and blaming "inflation", I doubt we see a price drop anytime soon. Sony has really tried to push the "premium" angle for its current gen, and pushed software and services prices up as part of that. So, if the PS5 holds its price, the Pro is going to be quite a bit more expensive. USD$699 is not off the table.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Wonder how long it takes DF to do their breakdown video of the specs.

And the pain Alex will be in during

Curious to see how much they will compare the Pro to the other systems on the market.

 

[Boy bawang]

I find this upgrade a bit pointless, except for edge cases. The problems of this console generation were certainly not the power of the console.

 

[Von Hugh]

I find this upgrade a bit pointless, except for edge cases. The problems of this console generation were certainly not the power of the console.

I'd gladly trade all the Pro R&D, manufacturing and marketing costs for some quality games instead.

 

[JerryinSoCal]

People wanting huge price drops are going to be in for a disappointment. Yeah things could go down a bit over time but you aren't going to see hundreds of dollars drop off of the launch price anymore. They could do that in previous gens because they had 512 MB of ram max and small HDD's, now we have 16GB of memory and SSD's, yeah those things have come down in price since launch but not enough to cut the console prices by $100 or more and keep from taking a loss.

 

[Same ol G]

Wondering how fake this PS5 Pro is..

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Even $600 isn't that good of a deal.

Last gen we got PS4 Pro at $400. The same as launch PS4, for a bigger increase in GPU performance.

PS5 should be $400 by now and PS5 Pro should be $500. I'll be selling my PS5 and hoping for a price drop and PS5 Pro replacing the old price (like PS4 Pro).

$400 in 2016 = $525 in 2024

Inflation is even worse for chips. So that’s probably more like $600+

 

[Codeblew]

Even $600 isn't that good of a deal.

Last gen we got PS4 Pro at $400. The same as launch PS4, for a bigger increase in GPU performance.

PS5 should be $400 by now and PS5 Pro should be $500. I'll be selling my PS5 and hoping for a price drop and PS5 Pro replacing the old price (like PS4 Pro).

PS5 is $400.

 

[Panajev2001a]

PS5 is $400.

I would suggest to leave him be, not sure he is arguing in good faith. PCMR baiting is most you are going to get.

 

[Kazdi]

So, if any devs delve into dual-issue compute, presumably first party, what improvements can we expect?

 

[SmokSmog]

PS5 PRO Q4 2024
Same case and internals as PS5 "Slim"
Aims for 230W max power
Literally just swapped 300mm2~ APU on N4 and faster GDDR6 chips.
500-550$ MSRP

Real PS5 Slim on N4
sub 200mm2 APU
120W TDP
400$ MSRP

 

[Sw0pDiller]

Or 699 with the option to add a drive but I lean towards 599

I think they will only make a diskless version, just like the new ps5. And the drive that is sold seperatly for ps5 pro can also be used for the pro.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Can't wait to see what this puppy can do in real world comparisons!

As soon as I see some seriously tangible uplifts in fps etc over ps5 and series x...my pre orders going in.

 

[Bulletbrain]

Yes

No. The RT performance of the ENTIRE GPU has improved. Not just the 45%. There are still 10 tflops on the PS5 that are also going to get these IPC gains. Just like how the PS5 gained the 50% IPC gains going from the base PS4's GCN architecture to Pro's Polaris architecture and finally the RDNA1 IPC gains. Thats why the 10 tflops PS5 behaves more like a 15 tflops PS4 when running games built on the PS5 sdk with all those IPC gains.

The same thing will happen here. The entire GPU will get the 2x IPC gains which in turn will help you get those extra frames. I think 90 is pushing it, but you will get 60 fps and then they will use framegen to get you those 30 extra fake frames everyone loves so much on PC. They have smartly invested enough in those AI accelerators to do what nvidia does in the 4000 series GPUs.

Can you entertain another hypothetical question for me, just to clear things up. Say a PS5 game has a unlocked Performance mode with unlocked FPS that currently averages 70fps. Further, it has a RT performance mode that doesn't hold perfect 60, but averages 55fps. If there is no CPU bottleneck, what are the average frames you expect for both the modes in this scenario on the pro?

 

[Jibran#one]

It's not a few optimized games.
All games going forward will have Pro modes and many previously released games will get patches.
Also it's not just "optimization", we could have ray tracing feasible to be implemented at a level that wasn't possible before, with much better image quality thanks to the AI upscaler instead of FSR/FSR2 and higher frame rate as well.

You're absolutely free to say that you're happy with what you have now and you won't buy another console, but it has no sense to deny there's a whole enthusiasts/upgraders market that thinks otherwise.

I meant in optimized
There is rdr2 that runs beautifully on a PS4 and then there are a couple of games that even a 4090 would struggle.
By all means there will always be a market for enthusiasts people would go crazy for a 5090 6090 PS5 pro+ PS6 and series X2 345 but
Honestly I don't think a new console is warrant at the moment, when there are less than 5 proper next gen games available atm.

 

[Ashamam]

I think they will only make a diskless version, just like the new ps5. And the drive that is sold seperatly for ps5 pro can also be used for the pro.

They will still sell it as a disk model, but technically yes it will be manufactured as a Digital Edition, with the modular drive added prior to boxing.

Whether they sell a Digital Edition by itself, I could see them not doing that for a premium model. Then again if its a bit pricey they might indeed do that to give a cheaper option.

 

[Moses85]

Wondering how fake this PS5 Pro is..

As fake as your posted dog

 

[Rob_27]

Needs to be better supported by devs than PS4 Pro. Go back and rejizz and patch the games.

 

[TheRedRiders]

 

[midnightAI]

Who on earth thinks 2-4x RT means 4x FPS? Is he saying that most enthusiasts are dumb or something? (Some are I agree, but that dumb? I haven't heard a single person yet make that claim)

 

[Bulletbrain]

This is an excellent way to look at the power uplift. Basically a 33ms frametime budget (or 30fps) can now be done in 18.5ms (50-55fps?). Pretty good, even if slightly missing that magical straight 2x uplift to 16.6ms, or 60fps.

 

[balls of snow]

I can’t see it without a drive. And I won’t buy it without one either.

They sell that addon drive for the digital slim ps5 for a reason.

 

[Ashamam]

Pretty good, even if slightly missing that magical straight 2x uplift to 16.6ms, or 60fps.

Like I said earlier. Pro will basically allow 60 fps at a resolution midway between performance and quality. With the res drop offset somewhat in IQ terms by PSSR.

 

[daninthemix]

Like I said earlier. Pro will basically allow 60 fps at a resolution midway between performance and quality. With the res drop offset somewhat in IQ terms by PSSR.

Oh. Pretty underwhelming then.

 

[chromatic9]

Think it will come with a disc drive built in. The standard PS5 with drive is most sold if I recall and other markets still go for that sku so I think drive will remain, entry level I think Series S or PS5 digital.

Obviously, we're heading to all digital and there's optional drives but PS market seems to be more wanting a drive built in still.

 

[Ashamam]

Oh. Pretty underwhelming then.

Well depending on title it may feel like a much clearer performance mode or a mild drop in sharpness vs quality but at 60fps. Thats assuming its patched. Fundamentally still will look like a PS5 title though. Actually playing it side by side on a big TV? I think it will be clear as day the Pro is the best way to play.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

I don't think you can have a pro model without a disk drive.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Will digital foundry put a fourth split screen slot for this or will they exclusively compare it to the 4090? Place your bets.

4090 will be old at that point: 5090 is coming baby....

"How a $2500 graphics card beats the $600 PS5 Pro"

 

[SABRE220]

Considering the very conservative specs of the machine, I think they skimped on cache/bandwidth and clock speed to save on die cost and cooling. I think they are aiming for 500$ for the pro and 400 for the ps5.

 

[Bojji]

there's less reason? you'd be getting 1500/2000 dollar PC performance for 700-800. that sounds like a pretty large reason for me.

You can literally build PC that will be on par or better than PS5 Pro for ~900$ right now:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TfNJZJ

Add $80 for a controller and K+M and there you go. You are not going to need a $300 CPU to match the Pro.

 

[MisterXDTV]

You can literally build PC that will be on par or better than PS5 Pro for ~900$ right now:

LOL we don't even know the full specs of the machine, and the nonsense is already starting

Still, you are not getting PS5 Pro performance from a $900 PC...

Not in this universe....

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Also we should be discussing zen 5 not zen 4

Definitely too late for that.

PS5 is $400.

I suspect it's just a temporary price cut to get rid of the bundles.

 

[Bojji]

LOL we don't even know the full specs of the machine, and the nonsense is already starting

Still, you are not getting PS5 Pro performance from a $900 PC...

Not in this universe....

4070 is stronger than Pro GPU and that Zen 3 will be better for sure. Hardware linked is better than PS5 Pro aside SSD speed and we know that it makes little difference in games.

PS5 Pro can be a very good deal depending on the price but this myth of needing 1500/2000/3000$ PCs needs to die.

 

[systemr123]

4090 will be old at that point: 5090 is coming baby....

"How a $2500 graphics card beats the $600 PS5 Pro"

Yes and then the PCMR is going to try to market the 2500 dollars GPU as if it’s all you need, and not the other 1000 dollars to actually make this GPU run and supply it with power and put it in a nice box and all, not to mention the enormous energy generator you need to supply all the watts to the system too.

 

[Gaiff]

4070 is stronger than Pro GPU and that Zen 3 will be better for sure. Hardware linked is better than PS5 Pro aside SSD speed and we know that it makes little difference in games.

PS5 Pro can be a very good deal depending on the price but this myth of needing 1500/2000/3000$ PCs needs to die.

We need to see how it performs in the real world first. Heisenberg did tell us 4070 performance so if that holds true, you’re probably correct. Still, I would wait before claiming anything as definitive.

 

[Bojji]

We need to see how it performs in the real world first. Heisenberg did tell us 4070 performance so if that holds true, you’re probably correct. Still, I would wait before claiming anything as definitive.

Assuming that leak is real, we can safely deduce real world performance of this console. With PS5 and XSX it's pretty clear that GPUs in those consoles most of the time perform just like 10-12TF RDNA2 GPUs, there is no secret sauce of any kind. This console should perform like 33.5TF RDNA3 GPU (so slightly below 7700XT) but with RT performance much closer to Nvidia cards in the same power brackets (3070ti-4070).

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

PS5 PRO Q4 2024
Same case and internals as PS5 "Slim"
Aims for 230W max power
Literally just swapped 300mm2~ APU on N4 and faster GDDR6 chips.
500-550$ MSRP

Real PS5 Slim on N4
sub 200mm2 APU
120W TDP
400$ MSRP

Spot on. Not a lot is giving what you are saying its credit. This is what I believe too. I am hearing a lot of $59 and even $699 talk. I believe all that is wrong. Like you, I expect the PS5 Slim to drop in price to $399 flat. And naturally without a disc drive. And the PS5 pro to comes in at $499. Also without a disc drive. The current stand-alone disc drive would work with both SKUs.

I also feel that getting both SKUs on an N4 platform is the real reason the PS5pro is coming this year instead of last year and maybe even coming early next year if not this year.

Who on earth thinks 2-4x RT means 4x FPS? Is he saying that most enthusiasts are dumb or something? (Some are I agree, but that dumb? I haven't heard a single person yet make that claim)

This is exactly the point I was making earlier. People saying they need more context on 2-4x better RT and how that doesn't translate to more frames are missing the point.

The entire RT pipeline of the PS5pro, translates to 2-4x better RT per CU vs the current PS5. And its that simple. And I also tried to explain it using frame times. It seems that for whatever reason when it comes to consoles some people try to obfuscate or overcomplicate things.

I don't think you can have a pro model without a disk drive.

You can absolutely have a pro model without a disc drive. Why not? This honestly has to be one of the most weird comments I read regarding consoles. Especially a console that has a disc drive solution like you have with a PS5 now. If you want a disc drive, just buy the attachment like you would an extra controller. Hell, they cost about the same too.

The fact of the matter is that having a disc drive is (and should always have been, if you ask me) optional. Why tack on the price of some hardware that not EVERYONE will use? That makes no sense to me. It's better to give EVERYONE the option to be able to use it, and let those that want it, go and get it for themselves.

I would rather that that extra $30 or so of BOM cost for a disc drive be put into something the benefits the console for EVERYONE. Than something is gimped here or there for an optional feature.

You can literally build PC that will be on par or better than PS5 Pro for ~900$ right now:

This nonsense again.... by the time you add that KB+M and/or a controller, you are lookling at a $1000+ piece of hardware. And this is assuming that you even want to "build" it yourself and have the know-how. This is the dumb thing that I think people who say stuff like this always seem to suggest. They talk like everyone out there has or is even willing to spend $1000 to "just build a PC".

The simple fact of the matter is this, from a price-to-performance standpoint, for a device specifically bought for gaming and media consumption, a console, will ALWAYS be better than a PC. The PS5 Pro will cost anywhere between $500-$600, you cannot get an equivalent gaming PC for that price point. And hell, at that point the og PS5 can even cost $399. Good luck getting a gaming PC at that price too.

Forgive my tone, but in all honesty, comparing PC prices, buying habits, or tendencies to that of a console is the most stupid thing anyone can do. Especially when it comes from the PC folk who usually present themselves as the more knowledgeable and cutting-edge of the bunch.

If you have only $400 - $500 to spend, or you just specifically want a console, you will not even be considering a PC period. I don't know why this concept is so hard to understand, especially for anyone who knows about PCpartspicker. I can't for the life of me think of a non-trolling, or non-disingenuous reason as to why this whole "build a PC" nonsense finds its way into every single new console hardware thread.

 

[jroc74]

Considering the very conservative specs of the machine, I think they skimped on cache/bandwidth and clock speed to save on die cost and cooling. I think they are aiming for 500$ for the pro and 400 for the ps5.

This is the elephant in the room. The debates about it being underwhelming and its also gonna cost 700+ is wild, lol.

Hell if the die size is the same I can see them going for a decent price for a PR win. $550-$599.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

We need to see how it performs in the real world first. Heisenberg did tell us 4070 performance so if that holds true, you’re probably correct. Still, I would wait before claiming anything as definitive.

I make sure to add real world performance

Seeing if I can get the ok to talk about a certain FPS game (biggest there is)

Not sure I can because of NDAs but he no longer works there so curious how he feels on it